yea, Jessica! :) you're my hero!

You know, there's enough material out there that we could probably to a Feminist Fuck You AND a Public Perv Fuck You every week.

ann, there is one every week-on fridays, what I think you mean, is that we can do one everyday, right? lol

RTFO!!!

Wow, that experience was fucked up. Thats why I'm taking gun lessons. No one seems to give a shit that someones attempting to sexually abuse you (in the form of rape, assault, ect) so you have to secure that yourself.

That is why I carry pepper spray.

It tends to be a conversation starter too. Whenever someone goes "whoa! Is that mace?" I go into my story of when I was jogging and some guy was following me around in his car, whacking off.

I'm adding this to my facebook, btw.

That rocked. :D
You're a bright spot in my day, thank you!

A brick would come in especially handy when a guy is following you in his car; mace can't penetrate windows. Unfortunately, bricks are too heavy for that to be practical.

If the guy who was taking pictures subsequently got kicked in the head, would the jury have dropped charges against the girl because of "assumption of risk" statutes? And shouldn't he be brought up on federal charges for creating child porn, since she was only 16?

That made my day. Thank you!

Right on! I really do believe this kind of sexual assault harassment is ALL about the power dynamic.

These type of things happened to me a few times when I was around 13-15. But I think I've only been flashed once as an adult, it's hard to say, I was deliberately not looking directly at him because I was alone in a remote parking lot at night.

The reason i say it's a power thing as an adult, I clock in at a stocky standoffish 6'. I'm a reasonably attractive woman, but I also look like I can handle myself. I play a little game when a guy is being overly personal and intimidating, his attitude changes dramatically when I stand up. Most of my harassment is confined to passing cars and amazon fetishists.

I agree in an ideal world violence is bad and physical intimidation should be avoided. However, we don't live in that world and it's really interesting how some men change their behavior when their physical dominance is in question.

For a long time, I've conditioned myself to laugh and draw attention if any perv ever tries to do shit like that in front of me in public.

Actually, one of my male friends told me the worst things to do is to point and laugh at them...implying that they have a small penis.

Right on! I really do believe this kind of sexual assault harassment is ALL about the power dynamic.

These type of things happened to me a few times when I was around 13-15. But I think I've only been flashed once as an adult, it's hard to say, I was deliberately not looking directly at him because I was alone in a remote parking lot at night.

The reason i say it's a power thing as an adult, I clock in at a stocky standoffish 6'. I'm a reasonably attractive woman, but I also look like I can handle myself. I play a little game when a guy is being overly personal and intimidating, his attitude changes dramatically when I stand up. Most of my harassment is confined to passing cars and amazon fetishists.

I agree in an ideal world violence is bad and physical intimidation should be avoided. However, we don't live in that world and it's really interesting how some men change their behavior when their physical dominance is in question.

hellz yeah! Friday Feminist Fuck Yous are the highlight of me week!

A hearty hear-hear to all of that, except for one thing: the use of the word "pervert." This word has been and still is used to denigrate anyone with "non-traditional" sexual practices - especially homosexuality, but also using sex toys, non-monogamy, BDSM, or even just oral sex. We shouldn't reinforce its stigmatizing power by using it to describe this harrassing, invasive behavior. The problem here isn't "perversion," it's peeping, harassment, and assault.

dykelawyer, you know - i thought about that, and i think you're right. but perhaps it's my own lack of vocab - i couldn't think of another word that would encompass not just street harassers, but flashers, guys who assault etc. Plus I like alliteration. But you're right, I probably should have taken more time to think of a word that isn't so loaded with sexhating.

It's all good. I had the same thought when I hit "post" -- 'but how else to say it with such concision and punch'? Admittedly, I don't have an ideal substitute handy. I probably would have just written, "Flashers, Harassers, Peeps" or something less catchy but more descriptive.

So this is what all those boys in the academy have been complaining about: feminism makes writing catchy prose hard!!

Hey, weird! You know, I can't think of a word, either -- not one that encompasses the notion of people who impose unwanted sexual behavior on others; that includes flashers, gropers, and street harrassers. You'd think there would be a number of readily recalled terms for that kind of fella, since they appear to be a dime a dozen.

Perhaps we can create a new word?

My word is molester. An adult who exposes his genitals to a minor or fondles a minor is a child molester, so why isn't an adult who exposes himself to strangers or fondles strangers on a subway a "subway molester"; on the street a "street molester"?

It has the added sting that it carries with it the familiarity of the "child ..." construction.

Um...well, I agree with about half of the video. One does have a right to expect that they not be physically assaulted, which includes stalking & verbal harassment. One does NOT, however, have the right to demand that they not be offended, which to me is what you're asking for if you want to arrest simple weenie-wagglers. The act of someone showing you their genitals does not constitute a violation of your rights, unless you want to side with the people who support the criminalization of public breastfeeding.

I realize that breastfeeding is much more likable than sexual exhibitionism, but "I'm appalled by it" remains an inadequate justification to criminalize either of them.

Har! I suddenly remembered something that happened with my sister ... long ago and far away (Bombay). We were making our way out of a train station, in the de rigueur torrential flux of people, she a little ways away from me, and suddenly I saw her--a "little girl" by all appearances--kick some guy's ass. I mean literally. She planted her foot right on his ass, and started yelling at him.

She wouldn't say, but let there be no doubt. He had been up to no good ...

He tried arguing back for about two seconds. Then he slunk away.

Knowingly or not, she was relying on more support than just her nerdy brother. And she would have got it. If the creep had persisted, people would have undoubtedly kicked his ass--literally, metaphorically, and everything in between.

Whether they would do it for fundamentally good reasons or not--sure, there's that ... but in the heat of the moment, it doesn't matter a great deal ... Paradoxical as it may seem, in a third world city, in the 80s, a woman could expect a minimum degree of public support.

Only after being inducted into middle class America did I see people ignoring this kind of thing, or acting like it didn't exist ... not to mention women themselves trying ineptly to cover it up ... or apologizing for "being harassable" ... and how about simpering at, or thanking, some random asshole who says "nice ass"! For someone who expected the woman to take off her shoe* and charge at the guy to slap him with it, there were plenty of rude awakenings. But then, I didn't know she couldn't count on anyone's support.

I probably sound like a bellyaching old Royko. One of the reasons I read this blog--not my "demographic" at all--is that it reminds me of saner days.

* or a whole fish, if she was a fishwife ... nothing beats being slapped across the face with "fresh catch" ...

"The act of someone showing you their genitals does not constitute a violation of your rights, unless you want to side with the people who support the criminalization of public breastfeeding."

Um, I really don't see how these are the same thing. The other day I saw a man with his hands in his pants for a second but when I looked back he had stopped thankfully. It's not only offensive. It's feels like a violation.

Thomas, totally. Molester it is.

UTV, I'm on a plane about to take off so I'm not going to even touch your comment until I land tonight, lest I get in trouble for keeping my blackberry on... But, seriously? I don't have the right not to have cocks waived in my face? When does it become an infringment, when someone ejaculates on me? When they touch me? We absolutely have a right not to be privy to someone's sexual...moment, or whatever you want to call it. The whole point of flashing is to make someone else uncomfortable, it isn't like I'm offended by dicks on nude beaches or anything. Anyway, by not touching ur comment I guess I meant type till I couldmt anymore. Ah well.

Unicron, yes, someone taking out his dick and waving it at me *does* constitute a violation of my rights. It is, as mentioned by Roni, all about the power dynamic.

There are a number of reasons why someone jerking off at me is *completely different* that someone breast feeding in public (not least of all the fact that breasts are not genitals), suffice it to say that they are two very different situations. And one is a threatening one.

I've been jerked off at before (as have many of the people who read this blog), and I can tell you that I felt more than "offended". Whether you intended to or not, you've belittled the sometimes traumatic experiences that a lot of women here have faced.

pedgehog - You have shown that you were offended and "more". You have not shown that your rights were violated. What right specifically are you talking about?

How about the right not to be sexually harrassed? And, actually, it already is criminalized to take your penis out in public, so moot point UTV.

Long time reader, first time poster here. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned on this site yet, but the Boston Area Rape Crisis Center has teamed up with the MBTA to combat subway harassers/gropers/grinders, etc. with a new ad campaign on the T (not able to remember my HTML at the moment, so click on my name for the link). Not sure how well it'll work, but at least it's letting women and molesters know that these actions are NOT acceptable. (Personally, when someone was grinding against me, I was too scared to turn around, let alone try to get a good look at the guy or report what happened.) At least it's an attempt to acknowledge that there is a problem though.

The actions we're describing here are not merely offensive, they are criminal. It is an absolute violation to forcibly subject someone to being part of these sexual acts without their consent. As anyone who has ever been accosted in this way can likely attest, it is debasing and upsetting to no end. The egregious nature of these encounters is only exacerbated by their ambiguity. Questioning whether or not these actions are violations or mere offenses only serves to harm women and ensure that as this phenomena persists, women will be further objectified, confused and silenced.

"Unicron, yes, someone taking out his dick and waving it at me *does* constitute a violation of my rights. It is, as mentioned by Roni, all about the power dynamic."

What right specifically does it violate? What measurable harm is inflicted on you? Your reaction doesn't count, as YOU are the only one responsible for it. It would be incorrect to assume that Roni's interpretation of her experience is universally applicable.

"There are a number of reasons why someone jerking off at me is *completely different* that someone breast feeding in public (not least of all the fact that breasts are not genitals), suffice it to say that they are two very different situations. And one is a threatening one."

I already granted that they're different. My point remains that laws against either of these actions are unjustified because they amount to imposing criminal penalties for violating arbitrary standards of taste and modesty.

The "threatening" nature of someone jerking off is completely subjective. You have the option to look away. Until the wacker prevents you from doing this, you have no grounds on which to assert that they're threatening you.

I do not discount the experience of someone who felt traumatized at being flashed, jerked off "at" or what have you. It would be arrogant to say that all of these people's experiences & feelings were invalid. They have right to be upset, but, for the reasons I've given, they'd have to prove a violation beyond simple exposure before I could support any sort of criminal penalty.

Unicron--
When someone is jerking off in public, they're not feeding a child. Breastfeeding does not equal public masturbation. End of story.

I want to actually backup Unicron_The_Vagina here a bit. I actually do totally agree that if the person is not: touching you, talking to you, ejaculating on you or on your property, then I actually don't see nudity in itself as something that is very offensive or punishable.

And I actually think it's feminist to think this way because it's pro-body and anti on right-wing ideas of sex. I mean, we've all seen tons of naked people before. I've had guys flash me, and it didn't bother me at all - again so long as they didn't try to touch me, etc.

I feel this is somewhat similar to the breast feeding, right-wing, anti-anything sex type arguments. That by taking this position we're saying nudity is evil, etc. which to me is anti-feminist. Because I don't think there is anything wrong with the human body. I'd even be perfectly ok to have people walk down the street totally naked if they want, though I'm not suggesting that. It's just that I don't like how some people are totally against anything that *they* perceive to be even remotely sexual. The human body in itself doesn't have to be sexual, we make it so with some of our rules.

Like I said, everyone has seen plenty of naked people. And guess what, if you are a woman you've had many men jerk off to you, whether you knew it or not. You can pretty much assume every single male co-worker, friend, etc. has jerked off to you before (not saying women don't do this too but still). I've even had guys admit the only reason they have facebook accounts is to gain access to pictures of female friends,coworkers,etc. so they can masturbate to them. So it happens.

Just the act of being naked is not a problem in my opinion. It's when someone takes action against you there is a problem - as soon as you talk to me, touch me, go on my property, etc. Then I flip out and have a serious issue. But if you want to pull it out in public and don't do those things to me then I don't really care because I don't consider nudity evil.

My post probably didn't convey any of what I wanted it to, but it's just hard to put into words how I feel about this.

"I already granted that they're different. My point remains that laws against either of these actions are unjustified because they amount to imposing criminal penalties for violating arbitrary standards of taste and modesty."

They are sexual harassment because the violator is calling attention to their sexual parts in a way that makes people uncomfortable specifically because of their link to sexuality.

Pretty clearly sexual harassment, at least.

Whereas breastfeeding is providing food to a baby. If someone was shaking their boobs on the street in my face, that would probably be sexual harassment in today's culture, but breastfeeding can't be called sexual harassment.

If someone makes me, and my reactions (regardless of whose fault my reactions are), a part of their sexual fantasy/jerk off fest- without my permission and in my face, then they have violated my rights.

That's my two-cents.

because the violator is calling attention to their sexual parts in a way that makes people uncomfortable specifically because of their link to sexuality.

This is a valid point though you must be careful here, because couldn't the same argument be used against people who dress to sexy? Show too much leg/boob/whatever?

It's a complicated issue, I just go back to how we fight for control over our own bodies. 100 years ago it was very immodest for a woman to even show ANY of her leg, and we fought against that. Women in Canada fought hard to be able to walk down the street topless. We fought to be able to breastfeed, choose for ourselves abortion, etc., all because we want to have control of our bodies, which I fully support, so I'm just saying that to then saying that showing your body, e.g., your genitals is really evil, seems kinda contradictory imo.

It's just where you draw the line. Because I agree that some of these incidents are clearly sexual harassment or assault or whatever, it just depends what exactly what we're talking about. My position is nudity is not a problem, it's if you do something that *involves* me beyond just being in my line of vision that I have a problem.

"Just the act of being naked is not a problem in my opinion."

Okay, but Jessica was talking about a guy masturbating, not just being nude. And you know, I think it'd be great if we were more accepting of nudity but in a certain time or place. I think it'd be great if there were more nude beaches for example for people who want to be nude outside their home with people who are okay with seeing them nude.

I think the key element here is the part about feeling *threatened*. Yes, that's one's reaction to the situation, HOWEVER, it's often times justified. The first time I saw a dude jerking off, I was at alone at a bus stop. Was the dude going to jump out of his car and assault me? How was I supposed to know? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is that my reaction was crazy fear. Yes, I was ALSO grossed out, but the feeling that I was being threatened was what made it memorable and a terrible experience.

“How about the right not to be sexually harrassed? And, actually, it already is criminalized to take your penis out in public, so moot point UTV.� – kissmypineapple

I googled sexual harassment definitions. None of the definitions I saw extended the concept to public places. Also, just because taking one’s penis out in public is against the law does not mean it violates pedgehog’s rights.

“They are sexual harassment because the violator is calling attention to their sexual parts in a way that makes people uncomfortable specifically because of their link to sexuality.
Pretty clearly sexual harassment, at least.
Whereas breastfeeding is providing food to a baby. If someone was shaking their boobs on the street in my face, that would probably be sexual harassment in today's culture, but breastfeeding can't be called sexual harassment.� - geeky_girl

So it is sexual harassment because the masturbation calls attention to the sexual nature of the body part? So it would not be sexual harassment, then, if he had simply exposed himself for non-sexual reasons (ex. pissing, or just cooling off)?

There's a difference between someone just being naked, and a man staring at you intently while masturbating. Surely you can see the difference.

And don’t go nuts trying to answer these questions thinking that I am defending the subway wanker. I think what he did was wrong (and that it is not analogous to breastfeeding). Unfortunately, I am afraid that I and others here are using an “I know it when I see it� system of differentiating what would constitute harassment rather than any objectively defined criteria. I also think that it is dangerous not to think that it is one’s right to see only what they want to see in a public place.

Sorry. That should have read, “I also think that it is dangerous to think that it is one’s right to see only what they want to see in a public place.�

It really is sexual harassment though. I mean, come on.

"I wasn't touching her or anything, I was just using her body for my own sexual pleasure, without her consent!"

Sounds like sexual harassment to me.