It looks like a spoof on that awful song "Glamorous", and it seems like people are having an open season calling that Fergie chick fat, so I took it as someone making fun of a fat chick.

Of course, I'm a pessimist and I didn't watch the whole thing for the simple fact that the music makes me twitch. :)

There is nothing "healthy" about the appetite in this spoof. Also- I've noticed an influx of weight conscious threads here at feminsiting. Yes- we should accept all body types and sizes. but NOT at the expense of HEALTH. It is one thing to be a size 8 and eat a healthy diet full of complete proteins and fiberous veggies with moderate exercise- it is another thing to be a size 8 and eat fast food and junk food all the time and just sit around all day. Everyone, male-female-young-old- should be making the effort to live a healthy life style and maintain a healthy diet.

This video makes me think that those girls probably threw up between takes. It just seems like how they are eating is binging... But like Tori, i couldn't watch the whole thing.

Yes- we should accept all body types and sizes. but NOT at the expense of HEALTH.

Well, that didn't take long.

Though I'm all for being a food lover (Lord knows I like my chicken wings, too), this video gives me the feeling that food can make you happy. I know we shouldn't fear food, but it's not a replacement for emotion. Yeah yeah yeah, I eat my feelings, too, but Ben&Jerry shouldn't be what cheers me up.

But yeah, Courtney, this doesn't sit right with me. I LOVE food and eating what you crave, but I still like to be healthy... and I just don't see that video promoting health.

Overall I liked it and it seems to be trying to counter-act all the stuff in the media telling women to be super-thin and diet all the time. I especially like the part "people say go with Jenny Craig but I don't wanna... I'm starving".

However, it did bother me a little bit too and I think you are right when you say "could it be the all-or-nothing tone of the whole thing?" A lot of the foods they mention and are eating are junk food, which simply aren't good for you, regardless of your weight. So it felt like they weren't promoting healthy eating so much as the opposite extreme of dieting - indulging and even binging. I couldn't help but think of binging, especially when it showed the "food log". However, I got the sense that the intent was not to promote unhealthy binging, but simply eating what you want when you are hungry. And that is an important message.

Funny video. I hope they aren't eating fried chicken and cupcakes all the time, but there is nothing wrong with celebrating the good stuff every now and then. Can one be gluttonous in moderation?

I think they're making fun of fat girls. Sorry, but the word "gluttonous" and all the crap that they are eating does not scream fat acceptance to me. Sometimes we want so much for things like this to be a nod to feminism and progressiveness in general, but more often than not it is just a lame joke.

I'm kind of rethinking my original snarky comment. Usually in the conversations on weight issues, health is brought up as a thread derail, but when it comes to the original post's concept of all-or-nothing, perhaps health is more relevant.

However, I do agree with pedgehog that the video felt to me more like mockery than reclamation of the terminology or fat acceptance... as much as I wish it didn't.

Everyone, male-female-young-old- should be making the effort to live a healthy life style and maintain a healthy diet.

Let me ask you something. Why? Why should we all have to make an effort to measure up to what you deem healthy? I hate exercise. I have always hated exercise. Meanwhile, there are a number of other things that I'm good at and enjoy. Why shouldn't I do those things instead of exercising? What gives you the right to determine what my priorities should be?

this video gives me the feeling that food can make you happy.

But it can. Food is one of the great physical pleasures of life. Sex can make you happy. Sleep can make you happy. Food can make you happy. What's so wrong with acknowledging the biological components to our states of mind?

Plus, with certain metabolisms, blood sugar and therefore food is directly keyed into one's emotional state.

gitan312, I don't think -jro- is fat-slamming. His/her last sentence sums up the point, I think: "Everyone, male-female-young-old- should be making the effort to live a healthy life style and maintain a healthy diet." Exactly. The important thing when talking about weight and acceptance of many different body types and sizes is that each individual should be able to feel and be healthy and comfortable with their own body, whatever size it is. People should not feel that they need to change their body in order to meet some outside ideal. This does not mean that every fat person is unhealthy nor that every thin person is healthy. We should be able to talking about eating well and exercising without it being taken as a criticism of fat people, because these are things that are important for one's health and well-being, regardless of size. (Yes, we could get into a debate about what exactly "eating well" means, but I think we could all agree that eating twinkies 24-7 is not healthy).

EG - I second that. Food can make you happy (I love a good meal). I would worry, however, if my life revolved around food to the point where I kept a food log, however.

the women are suppossed to be large??? I haven't been that small since tenth grade!

the women are suppossed to be large??? I haven't been that small since tenth grade!

I think they're making fun of fat girls. Sorry, but the word "gluttonous" and all the crap that they are eating does not scream fat acceptance to me.

Wow. I didn't get that vibe at all. I saw a group of women in bikinis with realistic (and quite beautiful, IMO) bodies. They also had appetites and loved eating food. I saw it more a celebration of eating (being gluttonous) in a world that usually wants women to be rail thin and denying of appetite in pursuit of beauty (glamorous).

I love when women are unashamed of their appetites. While many of the foods featured in this were generally unhealthy if eaten in large amounts every day, I think the idea behind this video was more of an exaggeration of the concept of enjoying food than it was a realistic depiction of what these women really ate.

I thought it was a clever, great video. Had there been close ups of women's cottage cheese thighs, fat rolls, jiggling skin, or a perspective that made the women look ugly for enjoying the food, it would have been negative. Rather, I think this was a video that showed real, non-celebrity women and their very real (yet exaggerated) desires for food and not uber-celebrities and their desires for fame, money, and society-determined "beauty." It's a satire of the "Glamorous" video and I think it worked.

Gluttonous healthy appetite is an oxymoron. Gluttony means excessive, uncontrollable appetite. That's why you feel nervous. As a male with binge-eating disorder, I think the video is pretty stupid.

I'm conflicted, too. I like the message that women can eat and enjoy and not talk about how it goes straight to their thighs. But did the women all have to be in bikinis and lingerie? And was that woman supposed to be "big"? She looked normal-to-thin to me. (Of course, I grew up in one of the fattest cities in the US, but now I live in the thinnest state. I think it gives me a skewed viewpoint.)
And I don't know about celebrating fried chicken and cupcakes. Why not brie and strawberries and wine? Or even bagels and cream cheese? Why did it have to be the absolutely worst our food culture has to offer?
I did sort of like the gangly guy feeding her. That seemed like a direct commentary on having waif-like people in videos, only this time it was a guy.

There are a couple of things that make me uncomfortable about this clip.
I really don't understand is why the heck they are wearing bikinis? Even if it is a spoof on another video, the point could be made without laying in a nighty on a bed or prancing around on the beach.
Another problem is the blatant ridicule of women who are weight conscious, this is a problem not something that should be joked at by other women. To me the video is addressing victims of eating disorders, instead of the larger societal problem.
Because the women are obviously dancing for men, because they have a sad skinny girl say "I am so hungry" (and besides the fact that these women are average if not smaller themselves)--the message I am getting is "Look how hott I am and I eat, like me boys cause I am wiser and know how to cook and eat," starting a battle between women who have eating disorders and those who don't, (or pretend that they don't)instead of saying, hey this sucks for everyone.
But I just finished finals and am a bit testy right now, I could be over analyzing a lot of this.

i agree with ellestar. the girls in the video are totally smokin', but they probably get "concerned friends" telling them to go on a diet all the time, and maybe even told that they are "gluttonous" for eating more than carrot sticks and the occassional olive. it seems like this video is a response to criticisms like that, saying that if what they are is fat and gluttonous, then they're perfectly happy to be that way.

I like. I had been afraid that it would be about obese women overindulging or singing about how they are sexy because they are fat - in other words still equating sex-appeal with body weight. But it just shows pure delight in food, which is great. And for those who point out that these women are not fat, I agree. But they were happily unashamed of the little bit of jiggle and muffin tops that they did have, so I think that they carried off the video well.

My only negative impression was their horrible fingernails. How can women maintain those things and still do things efficiently? They totally remind me of foot-binding and corsets and other practices that have made women choose between being fashionable and being independent.

I agree with EG. Why do we have to aspire to this "healthy lifestyle"? At what point do we achieve "health"? Where is this arbitrary line in the sand drawn? "Health" is not a moral imperative.

Let me ask you something. Why? Why should we all have to make an effort to measure up to what you deem healthy? I hate exercise. I have always hated exercise. Meanwhile, there are a number of other things that I'm good at and enjoy. Why shouldn't I do those things instead of exercising? What gives you the right to determine what my priorities should be?

Eg, I don’t mean to be rude, but this strikes me as an extremely immature, self-entitled statement. It would be one thing if jro was specifying exactly what a “healthy lifestyle� entails, or was “telling you what your priorities should be�. However, your argument amounts to “I shouldn’t have to cuz I don’t wanna�. Imagine if jro had said, “It’s generally a good idea to wear a helmet when you ride a bike� and you responded in the same manner. What does such a response say about the merits of striving to be healthy, or wearing a helmet? Not a whole lot. That response didn’t work for me when I was five, and it doesn’t work now.

Hmmmmmmm. Not so mixed feelings here.

Women having appetites, eating, having curves = great!

Women having appetites, eating, having curves and being called gluttonous (read: abnormal; extreme) for it = reinforcing patriarchial control memes

That's pretty much what my body looks like, except that my thighs are covered in stretch marks. It's the bane of having grown in "spurts."

I didn't see her just eating fried chicken and cupcakes, but the ice cream did make me squirm... also eating guacamole from a spoon. She did talk about other things, like chow mein, and she was singing in front of a mural of tomatoes, bananas, and apples.

Overall, I like it, though my feelings are tempered by a recognition that there did seem to be a current of mocking women with eating disorders. I have a former anorexic friend who once told me how painful it is to her anorexia used as an adjective for any woman under a certain weight, especially as a pejorative.

I certainly called myself gluttonous in high school. When you ask yourself about the history of the word and how it's been used, it's hard not to feel a little resentful and try to appropriate it.

I'm not crazy about it either. It doesn't make me happy, the way this one did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoBVdcadDxk

There's some ... snark? in there, something like when *that* girl, you know the one, in high school, tells you that your outfit is "so cute" and you know she means just the opposite.

Plus, I agree with other commenters -- those gals are cute 'n all, but I wouldn't call them an ounce over "normal" weight.

Sorry to offend some of you. I would not dare to dictate to anyone what a "healthy life style" is- because of course it is different for all of us. But we are all human beings and our physical selves need just as much nurture, love and attention as our mind and soul. EG does not like exercise- but what is "exercise"? It could be a million things, you might even like it and not know it yet!

Let me ask you something. Why? Why should we all have to make an effort to measure up to what you deem healthy? I hate exercise. I have always hated exercise. Meanwhile, there are a number of other things that I'm good at and enjoy. Why shouldn't I do those things instead of exercising? What gives you the right to determine what my priorities should be?
...
Food is one of the great physical pleasures of life. Sex can make you happy. Sleep can make you happy. Food can make you happy. What's so wrong with acknowledging the biological components to our states of mind?

Damn, yes, EG! Exactly!

I'm all for being healthy in some abstract sense, but the reality is that all of us have different priorities and different things we value, and no, I'm not going to look down on someone who decides that sie is more concerned about the pleasure sie derives from eating rich or otherwise unhealthy foods over sie's health. We all make these kinds of choices every day, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. People engage in risky, unhealthy, or dangerous activities all the time, because the enjoyment derived is worth the risk.

Eg, I don’t mean to be rude, but this strikes me as an extremely immature, self-entitled statement. It would be one thing if jro was specifying exactly what a “healthy lifestyle� entails, or was “telling you what your priorities should be�. However, your argument amounts to “I shouldn’t have to cuz I don’t wanna�.

And... so? I mean, really, what's the problem here? We don't have to because we don't want to. I'm trying to improve my diet and I'm starting to jog and exercise because I want to. But, it's my call. And you know what? That's how it should be. The suggestion that we "should" be "healthy" doesn't come in a vaccuum. It's part of a larger conversation and it's happening in a context wherein American society has largely devalued the experiences of "fat" people. It doesn't actually matter how healthy a large person is, if you're deemed fat, it's common knowledge- however wrong- that you're not healthy. So, I think EG's reaction is a fair one- why should we necessarily have some super active desire to be healthy as defined by society at large? If I'm happy and I'm enjoying my lifestyle choices, and I'm not actively harming anybody else, why should it be your concern or anybody else's how healthy I am? It's a ridiculous bias we have- we're not out there telling marathon runners that they should give that up, despite overwhelming evidence that professional marathon runners ruin their bodies. We don't go after professional wrestlers or boxers and tell them how unhealthy their lifestyle is, despite the fact that serious life-changing injuries, brain damage, and even death are risks. It's one thing to make information available- "you can reduce your risk of heart attack if X"- it's another to think that everyone ought to have the same types of concerns and regard for health, or that everyone should feel obligated to reduce their personal enjoyment for the sake of health.

Imagine if jro had said, “It’s generally a good idea to wear a helmet when you ride a bike� and you responded in the same manner.

It's not really the same thing. You're comparing a specific behavior- wearing a helmet- to an entire lifestyle- "Everyone, male-female-young-old- should be making the effort to live a healthy life style and maintain a healthy diet". That's not the same.

In general, I do really see it as positive (and fun). Don't be ashamed about getting guacamole and sour cream on your nachos, sister! But like Courtney I see something a little "off" here: I think it's that they aren't also giving credit to a healthy relationship with food -- it's all about junk food, there's no moderation mentioned whatsoever, and especially no exercise. I'd like to see it more like "Of course I eat my veggies, of course I eat right, but it's really the chocolate cake that keeps me feelin' tight." Well that was white-girl rapping, but you get the jist!

Jennifer
About-Face ()

I love it mostly -- I wouldn't have chosen "gluttonous" as a good word because it's inherently unhealthy, but they were spoofing "glamorous" so it makes sense.

Binging is not healthy, but I think this hyperbolism is part of the backlash against every other voice in the world that says you should feel guilty for eating or having desire to eat more.

As for the bikinis, I don't think this is the classic musico video "ho" trope. They're not gyrating on men. They're not voiceless or faceless -- they're just unafraid to show their bodies at the beach, which I think is a great, sexually-neutral message.

And also, so what if they are being sexy? Women of any size should be allowed to be sexy and proud, to show other women that they can have appetites for both food and sex without having to hide in their basements/under a tent dress/behind the camera. It's sad how many women think they "can't" go to the beach or be intimate until they've lost x amount of weight.

The standard of thin = sexy has become so pervasive that a lot of straight men have actually fetishized it, as in, they can't get aroused by a woman who doesn't fall into a very narrow and often unhealthy weight class. That should be weird, not normative.

I shouldn’t have to cuz I don’t wanna

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. It's my body. Why should I do things with it that I don't want to?

Imagine if jro had said, “It’s generally a good idea to wear a helmet when you ride a bike�

Except that's not what she said, and I second everything roymac said. Wearing a helmet is a specific behavior that prevents you from having your head cracked open by a tree falling on top of you (that happened to my sister, but fortunately, she was wearing a helmet). She made a blanket statement about eating "healthfully" and being "active" with no allowance for individual judgment or priorities, and she phrased in terms of "should"s.

"She made a blanket statement about eating "healthfully" and being "active" with no allowance for individual judgment or priorities, and she phrased in terms of "should"s." :: as noted by others, my post was vague and broad-termed so we could all define what "healthy" is for ourselves. "Wearing a helmet is a specific behavior that prevents you from having your head cracked open"- yes, and eating a diet that is in tune with our body's chemistry helps prevent life threatening illnesses like diabetes, heart disease, etc. A healthy diet is protection from an illness or disease.

"We don't go after professional wrestlers or boxers and tell them how unhealthy their lifestyle is, - it's another to think that everyone ought to have the same types of concerns and regard for health, or that everyone should feel obligated to reduce their personal enjoyment for the sake of health." ::: If this is the case, than anorexic girls should have every right to live their lives and not have to change their eating habits also, yes? Maybe its unfair we call it a disease- its just their lifestyle.

I'm sorry, but this thread is turning ridiculous. There is a HUGE difference between sexist stereotypes and eating a balanced diet and getting enough exercise.
Are people so immature that on one hand, they want the freedom to choose for themselves the lifestyle they want to live, and then, they get offended when someone tells them it isn't healthy?!
Smoking is bad for you! It might kill you! That is a fact. Go ahead smoke all you want, but it doesn't negate the facts.
Being overweight and not exercising is BAD for your health! It very well might kill you. That is a fact.

This is not about male or female. This isn't even about personal choice! 40% of Americans are overweight, so CLEARLY, we have no problem choosing for ourselves the way we want to live. Even if those choices do end up killing us.

Could it be that I fear douche bag dudes could use it for douche bag purposes?

Oh well, that can happen with just about anything, right?

Except that anorexic girls are suffering intensely, jro. That's one of the ways you can tell the difference between an illness and a lifestyle.

This sort of "I'll do whatever I want to do, no matter what the consequences, as long as it feels good, and fuck you for telling me it isn't healthy" is self-destructive.

"Except that anorexic girls are suffering intensely, jro. That's one of the ways you can tell the difference between an illness and a lifestyle." - People who are obese also suffer intensely.

EG didn't say anything about it being a sexist stereotype, so that's a moot point. She also didn't say that she's constantly smoking, but again, if she wanted to, as long as she's not blowing smoke in my face, she's a grown woman, and she's welcome to smoke all damn day if that's what she wants. I also highly doubt that EG's eventual death will be the result of her not exercising. The moralistic attitude on this thread is troubling.

I don't exercise either. I'm in grad school full time, working full time, and I'm gearing up to start another internship (why didn't I learn last semester??), and I volunteer. When I have a few free minutes, guess what I'm doing. Is it running? No. Is it crunches? (Nope!) Is it jumping jacks? (Hell no!) It's sitting on the couch watching scrubs and eating M&M's. Or sleeping. I love to sleep. If you want to tell me that I'm a careless person and that ZOMG, you're gonna DIE! Have at it. But I am an adult, and I will prioritize what I do with my free time. I'm killing myself over my degree and making enough money to get by. If I want to spend the rest of my time doing what I enjoy, that's my business, it doesn't affect you, and all your moral judgements just wastes your time.

This sort of "I'll do whatever I want to do, no matter what the consequences, as long as it feels good, and fuck you for telling me it isn't healthy" attitude is self-destructive.

What I never like about discussions concerning health and the obesity problem is that it is rarely about personal health and moderation, but about shaming "fat" people (how many documentaries, PSAs, etc. have you seen that seem informational and well intentioned- and then show you a montage of large women from behind?) Just throwing that out there.

As for the video- I love it. I saw it as a response to being accused of gluttonous behavior- as if they were showing you: "You want gluttonous? I'll GIVE you gluttonous- here is me eating every fat filled food I can find!" Therefore, using it as a (hilarious) satire to show that they are not gluttonous, but healthy. That they ARE the moderation between eating disorders and obesity.

I often feel the same way- its my doctors responsibility to piont out to me where I fall on the all-mighty chart of healthy ways; I'm often tempted to show people how much worse I could be- how glutonous I COULD be to show that I am healthy. And goddammit I will jump around in a little bathing suit with those girls.
Because we are beautiful.

Why is it that it is socially acceptable to tell people to eat healthy/excersize? Why do other people seem to find it personally offensive if someone does not? Why can't I tell people with the same vigor to read the right books because I find their lack of knowledge offensive, for example? Being well-learned also contributes to an overall sense of well being for both the individual and the community. What the hell? What makes it ok to openly discriminate and to openly tell people what to do to fit the social standard for acceptable bodies? It seems like the same "logic" that gay marriage can threaten heterosexual marriage.

And your attitude is patronizing and obnoxious. So, even-steven? Why are you wringing your hands over someone you will in all likelihood never even meet? You make EG out to be some whiny petulant teenager, when, again, she is a grown woman. Examine the root of your attitude here. I'd bet it comes from our culture's edict that Non-physically-active=lazy=sinful. It is the perception that refusing to do something one hates to live up to a societal standard is a moral failing. There can be no genuine concern for EG's heart or lungs, b/c you don't personally know her, but you certainly can couch a displeasure for immorality in concern from across the internet.

"People who are obese also suffer intensely."

Suffer from what? People like you?

Anorexia nervosa is a psychological disorder. Obesity isn't. Anorexia is NOT the opposite of obesity.

It's funny the way I take health advice from my doctors, who actually, well, know something about my health, and not from obnoxious strangers on the internet.

And this is my point. You have no idea what "lifestyle" is healthiest for me, because you apparently don't consider emotional well-being part of health. I do. Your "one size fits all" mentality when it comes to health is condescending, ignorant, and childish.

Making an action or effort an “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, and experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing thing. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Making an action or effort an “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, and experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing thing. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Making an action or effort an “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, and experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing thing. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Making an action or effort a “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, or experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing things. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Wildberry- well, you are correct. Anorexia is not the polar opposite of obesity- but does this make obesity any less relevant? Isn't it still a health concern?

Making an action or effort a “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, or experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing things. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Making an action or effort a “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, or experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing things. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Making an action or effort a “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, or experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing things. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Making an action or effort a “should� or imperative is missing the point on this, I believe. Though balanced and healthy lifestyle is a possibly wonderful thing, with many benefits, its also very complicated for women. Personally, exercise was never just about making my body feel good, or experiencing the blessing of having a body that could do amazing things. It was always tied up in making my body BETTER, achieving more, looking good. Eating well and exercise are inextricably linked to a sort of moral and physical superiority complex. One I know helped develop my eating disorder. So for those of you who are saying that everyone “should� eat healthy and exercise, I would ask that instead, you invite women to appreciate and care for their bodies. In recovery from a culture that demands our bodies to be consumed and looked at, rather than loved and experienced, this might mean eating cupcakes for three weeks. It may mean quitting exercise until you’ve learned that its something you can do from love, not punishment and loathing of your body.

We all know the benefits of exercise, balanced eating, and “good� health. However, this has not prevented the epidemic of body image dysfunction and eating disorders in women and girls today. It also does not help people love their bodies and listen to them, rather shames them from not being “right.� I would ask that everyone be more compassionate towards the untenable and difficult position that we face as women with bodies, rather than distributing mandate about what is and is not the right way to live.
Its interesting that there is so much fear around the message of appetites being something women have. This video obviously talks about how people (women) enjoy food, to such a degree that we actually think its threatening to the idea that we’ve been taught- women have no right to food and no reason to trust themselves.. It’s an exaggeration, and in the reaction, makes even clearer how warpped and weird we are about the idea of women eating. Look how freaked out everyone gets, running to the old “we have to be healthy!� card in order to hide from what really we’re afraid of- what we think are our own secret and huge appetites. We’re afraid to let ourselves have what we want to eat because we will be out of control and unhealthy. Sad to live in a culture that has convinced women that their desire and appetite for food is too big, or out of control.

Listen, if we trusted women to eat what they wanted and be ok, then we’d watch this video and laugh at how its celebrating and mocking our obsession with women’s bodies and food. But we are worried, because we find it a threat to the dominate message that we have to mistrust and manage ourselves and our appetites to be ok.

Well, it's not important but I never see people over 18 wear bike helmets.

I hate the gym but thankfully I love some physical activities because I couldn't do these things just for health. I just know my parents encourage me to be healthy sometimes because they are getting to the age where they wish they had lived healthier. And where the government pays for health care, they care because prevention is better than treating a problem. But in America...I don't know, as long as the information is out there for people, why care what they do.

You know, we all agree that it's obnoxious to go up to pregnant women and start telling them to drink milk and avoid alcohol, right?

So why is it all of a sudden OK to go up to people en masse and tell them to "eat right" and exercise? Why is it so threatening to have to consider that you are not the best judge and arbiter of other people's health? That you know jack shit about what will help them? That monitoring the health of other people is not yours to do?

weedivine: your post is spot on and I agree 100%. Thank you for sharing.

I think analyzing whether or not they are promoting health is a total red herring and it's just one more excuse to discourage such 'gluttony'. The ladies in the video also mention salads and plantains. However, I can't fully comment on the video because I don't really know the context of it or if it is sarcastic. I was not aware that people had been calling Fergie fat lately, so given that new information I feel that it may be more of a mockery. If it's not, however, then it's completely awesome.

I think analyzing whether or not they are promoting health is a total red herring and it's just one more excuse to discourage such 'gluttony'. The ladies in the video also mention salads and plantains. However, I can't fully comment on the video because I don't really know the context of it or if it is sarcastic. I was not aware that people had been calling Fergie fat lately, so given that new information I feel that it may be more of a mockery. If it's not, however, then it's completely awesome.

I think analyzing whether or not they are promoting health is a total red herring and it's just one more excuse to discourage such 'gluttony'. The ladies in the video also mention salads and plantains. However, I can't fully comment on the video because I don't really know the context of it or if it is sarcastic. I was not aware that people had been calling Fergie fat lately, so given that information I feel that it may be more of a mockery. If it's not, however, then it's completely awesome.

EG- Maybe its unfair to assume everyone on this thread is totally uneducated in nutritional science and physical training? But you are certainly right- monitoring others health is not my job and I don't care to do it either. I only wanted to share my thoughts on the video and my thought that better eating and exercise can benefit a lot of people. I had nothing but good intentions and didn't mean to degrade or hurt anyone. That's all.

Person A: "Eating unhealthily is bad. Glorifying this habit is irresponsible. This country's issues with just about every type of gluttony is having a measurably harmful impact on the planet."

Person B: "OMG OUTRAGE! You're fat-shaming! You might as well be on the Man Show! You're diminishing the worth of overweight people! You're reinforcing an unrealistic standard of beauty for women! You're supporting the act of judging people based on their looks!"

Also, the manufactured outrage in several of these posts tacitly equates Person A's stance with the act of actually walking up to someone and saying "Excuse me, but why are you so fat? Do you not understand the principles of healthy diet and exercise? Do you realize that you're going to die from cardiovascular disease?" To thinking folks, this particular argument suffers from a fallacy known as the "straw man".

The fact that you take a stance against something ignorant does not in any way assure that your stance isn't equally ignorant. Fat-shaming, name-calling, and vapid standards of beauty are stupid, bad things. The glorification of gluttony is equally stupid.

*off to eat some doughnuts*

Previewing your Comment

I'm all for being healthy in some abstract sense, but the reality is that all of us have different priorities and different things we value, and no, I'm not going to look down on someone who decides that sie is more concerned about the pleasure sie derives from eating rich or otherwise unhealthy foods over sie's health.

Roymac, I don’t think that this statement is entirely at odds with jro’s statement that everyone should try to maintain a healthy lifestyle. I think we can all acknowledge that a healthy lifestyle is generally a good thing, while still acknowledging that a “healthy lifestyle� can mean different things for different people and body types. However, I think there is a difference between acknowledging that fact and pretending that a behavior isn’t risky because it’s a lifestyle and a choice. We are constantly being told by the media, by the government, and by our doctors what things are good and bad for us. Wear a seatbelt, wear a helmet, drink less, etc. Of course we all have a right to do what we please, but that’s not an argument for why it’s good for us or not. In general, cigarettes are a bad idea. If I say that I smoke them (and let’s say I don’t expose anyone to second hand smoke) because it’s my body and I like it, that doesn’t mean they aren’t generally bad for you. Even if I pointed out that very few smokers actually develop lung cancer, that wouldn’t mean that smoking isn’t generally risky.

I also want to say that I don’t want to be one of those people that completely ignores the context of this discussion. I understand that society at large unfairly defines “fat� as unhealthy. As a woman, I too feel constantly bombarded by the media, the diet industry, women’s magazines etc. I’m also not telling anyone, nor have I ever told anyone, what they should or shouldn’t do with their body. All I’m saying is that the argument that something is good for you just because you like it is illogical.

my think--
what about girls who are not gluttonous and do not want to eat gross shit all day? they sort of make it seem that having that sort of appetite is the norm and any woman who doesn't is subscribing to a whole set of standards and ideas (and is on some sort of diet). some women are just not hungry people. voila.

Whoops! I meant to block quote Roymac's statement. Also, I'll repeat that I'm not trying to shame anyone, and I haven't seen any posts on this thread that tell people what their body "should" look like.

I don't think anyone is saying that every person should eat X calories a day, work out in such-and-such way for Y hours, or weigh Z pounds. As a nurse, I have seen plenty of patients who, looking strictly at BMI, are obese. They eat healthily and get some physical activity and every test you could think to run comes back normally. I also see a lot of thin people who have crappy health because they don't take care of themselves.

I am fairly libertarian, and I don't think any mentally capable adult "should" do anything s/he doesn't want to do. I get very frustrated when we constantly treat the same patients over and over who don't follow a healthy diet and whose eating habits contribute to their health problems. But if you recognize that living off Ding-Dongs isn't good for you but don't care, what's it to me?

I'm bothered by the almost-instant connection people make between weight and health. When I say it's important to eat healthily, I don't mean it's important to be skinny. When I say it's important to exercise, I don't mean it's important to be a certain size. Weight and health are two different things, and making a comment about one doesn't mean anything is being said about the other.

You described the women in the video as being "awesomely curvy," so I was really surprised by how thin they all were. None of them looked like models on the cover of women's magazines, but I think it's safe to say that most women realize that those images of women are the minority. So when I think of "average-sized" or "curvy" women, the image in my head is of the female bodied folks I see every day. Perhaps I run in a fatter (and more fat-positive) crowd than others, but those women are all about my size, and I'm in the smaller third of the female-bodied folks in my life, so I'd expect the "average sized" woman to be, well, a bit bigger.

There's something about combining a purportedly fat-positive message of "fuck you, I love food and so I'm going to eat, I don't care about how small you think I should be!" with women in bathing suits with bodies that don't really transgress social expectations of women's bodies that doesn't quite sit with me.

Which is not to say that it isn't understandable or reasonable for women sized like them, or like myself, to have doubts and anxieties about our body size, but being on the average-to-small side and feeling pressure to be skinnier isn't the same as experiencing fat-phobia everyday. I've never had a stranger offer advice on my health or eating habits, assume that I was lazy or unhealthy because of my size, or any of the many other manifestations of fat phobia that people larger than me deal with on a regular basis.

The video feels like a thinning of fat-positivity, to me.

I think the "all-or-nothing tone" is necessary to get the point across.
Is very possible that douchebag dudes (or ladies) will find something to say, but it'd be such a shame. These women aren't even large. I think they're all gorgeous!

This video seemed like a total Hidden Bulimia Joke http://wheresmyreflection.blogspot.com/2007/10/ham-napikin-was-funnier.html
and it wasn't particularly funny.

Person A: "Eating unhealthily is bad. Glorifying this habit is irresponsible. This country's issues with just about every type of gluttony is having a measurably harmful impact on the planet."

Person B: "OMG OUTRAGE! You're fat-shaming! You might as well be on the Man Show! You're diminishing the worth of overweight people! You're reinforcing an unrealistic standard of beauty for women! You're supporting the act of judging people based on their looks!"

Also, the manufactured outrage in several of these posts tacitly equates Person A's stance with the act of actually walking up to someone and saying "Excuse me, but why are you so fat? Do you not understand the principles of healthy diet and exercise? Do you realize that you're going to die from cardiovascular disease?" To thinking folks, this particular argument suffers from a fallacy known as the "straw man".

The fact that you take a stance against something ignorant does not in any way assure that your stance isn't equally ignorant. Fat-shaming, name-calling, and vapid standards of beauty are stupid, bad things. The glorification of gluttony is equally stupid.

Person C: "I have no idea that the comments made by person A or by me were actually made on the internet where people can see them, so I can't imagine how people can be hurt by them. I've never actually heard of any fat person being yelled at by anyone else about health, even though fat people report that this happens to them often, especially at family gatherings and doctors offices. I also have never noticed how 'health' concern trolling has been used as a justification for fat prejudice."

Also, "measurably harmful impact on the planet"? What?

I think this woman has a great body. In fact I have seen woman around her height who have another 20-40 lbs I thought were very attractive. I am actually quite a fan of pleasantly plump woman.

I think (most) men have gotten a really shitty undeserved rep regarding the diet craze among women. Real men know that women are supposed to have curves. Real men love curves in women.
If you really step back and think about it the people most driving the fashion industry are gay males. (For whatever reason) gay males in the fashion industry seem intent on selecting waif-like malnourished models that seem like totally sexless androgynous humans.

I've occasionally seen runway models walking flipping through channels, and I don't remember being attracted to a single solitary one.

Just my 2cents.

Okay, so I’m down with the intention of the video, in that it seeks to redefine and reinterpret our cultural ideas of what constitutes feminine behavior and appetite and foods we often collectively label as “bad.� Although it must be noted that had the video showed fat women crowing about food and gluttony, the interpretation would be vastly different.

I identify as both a fat rights activist and eating disorders activist. What I see in this video does more damage than it does good. It defies intuitive eating (“If you ain’t really hungry, get your appetite on.�) and encourages binging type behaviors. We have a woman sitting on a bed surrounded by junk and fast food wrappers. In another scene, she’s holding a large bucket of chicken. In the next, she holds a diary in which she lists her food intake every hour on the hour with foods like steak, nachos with extra cheese, pizza, and ice cream. She crows about wanting and eating high-carb and high-cal foods – all of which are highly characteristic of the foods people with eating disorders often binge on.

This doesn’t strike me as constructive and empowering for women; rather it borders on feeder fetishism. If we really wanted to promote healthy eating and combat those forces which lead women to develop disordered relationships with food and weight, we’d promote intuitive and health eating habits that exclude any mention of weight or weight loss.

I feel the premise of this video only furthers the negative stereotypes and images associated with females and food. In simplified terms, the thought process goes something like "not eating=skinny" and "eating=fat"...how is a video called "glutanous" helping to fix this? So if a woman enjoys eating and likes fatty foods she is "gluttanous"? How about...normal? I would call that a normal person. Yes, we all like eating and we all like fatty foods. But saying a woman is "gluttanous" for indulging in food is hardly helping to rid us of these negative associations. It's hardly "gluttanous" to love food and categorizing normal women as "gluttanous" is only going to further the popular notion that "eating=fat"

I feel the premise of this video only furthers the negative stereotypes and images associated with females and food. In simplified terms, the thought process goes something like "not eating=skinny" and "eating=fat"...how is a video called "glutanous" helping to fix this? So if a woman enjoys eating and likes fatty foods she is "gluttanous"? How about...normal? I would call that a normal person. Yes, we all like eating and we all like fatty foods. But saying a woman is "gluttanous" for indulging in food is hardly helping to rid us of these negative associations. It's hardly "gluttanous" to love food and categorizing normal women as "gluttanous" is only going to further the popular notion that "eating=fat"

one thing some people have commented on- the food log. most people here seem to see it as evidence of binge behavior. I see it the opposite. As someone who, while doing more restrictive disordered eating behaviors, once kept a food log to show how much food was eaten (or not eaten) for the purpose of keeping to a diet and feeling ashamed, I see her food log as something that's kind of taking it back! She LOVES her food log! Many diets want people to keep a food log, and it turns into a really destructive device. She's doing it too, but I think here it's to prove a point that we shouldn't be keeping food logs to torture ourselves! If we're doing something like eating, it should be a happy time!

First, ITA with Rachel.

And second, I'm pretty hugely bothered by the fact that this video only reinforces the stereotype that large women are large because they eat too much, and supports the judgment, "Well, you'd lose weight if you ate less" while completely ignoring the other factors that contribute to body size.

one thing some people have commented on- the food log. most people here seem to see it as evidence of binge behavior. I see it the opposite. As someone who, while doing more restrictive disordered eating behaviors, once kept a food log to show how much food was eaten (or not eaten) for the purpose of keeping to a diet and feeling ashamed, I see her food log as something that's kind of taking it back! She LOVES her food log! Many diets want people to keep a food log, and it turns into a really destructive device. She's doing it too, but I think here it's to prove a point that we shouldn't be keeping food logs to torture ourselves! If we're doing something like eating, it should be a happy time!

According to Jabes, I don't look like how women are supposed to look.

Ditto Wildberry. Apparently I'm not a real woman.

1. ITA w/EG.

2. chefmatt: I think you're getting a little carried away with the whole "It's a fact" thing. While obesity has been linked to some diseases, other studies have shown that overweight people are actually at less risk of some diseases than "normal" weight people. Also, several studies have demonstrated that fat people are often treated disrespectfully by doctors, and are told to lose weight no matter what they're actually trying to get treatment for. Still more fat folks avoid the doctor altogether because of bad experiences. Both of these things could lead to higher instances of disease in fat folks simply because they're getting substandard preventative care.

Also, you implied that being overweight and not exercising go hand in hand. I am overweight (obese, actually, at 5'8" and 200 lbs) but I exercise 5 days a week (Pilates, cardio, weight training), I'm a Red Cross certified lifeguard and swimming instructor, and I eat a balanced diet (I just had a turkeyburger on whole wheat with steamed kale and a baked potato). I have always been active, and I have always been overweight. Living a "healthy lifestyle" has never made me thin.

3. The video! I don't like it. While I applaud the idea of reclaiming the female appetite, I think this video just reinforces the myth that all fat (or slightly rounded, as per the video) people have "gluttonous" appetites when that simply isn't true.

4. Jabes - women come in all shapes. Some don't have curves. Nonetheless, they are real women, and the men who love them are real men.

P.S., to those who didn't watch the whole thing, it does make a difference...

I liked it.
I spent many years in my teens and early 20's with a skewed body image and eating disordered behaviour. 22 years ago I decided to reclaim my appetite and learn to love my body.
I eat pretty 'healthy' and also dig butter, cream, bacon, fried food, etc.
I thought the video showed lovely women rapturously enjoying 'taboo' foods, not hiding out and binge-ing. Maybe the women weren't all that large, but compared to the women in fashion 'zines, they broke the 'size zero' mold.
I wrote a post on my blog called 'Fat is your friend' and got a preachy comment about 'healthy diet'.
The heck with that, sometimes ya just wanna love chunky oven fries roasted in goose fat with a side of mayo!!

I agree with Rachel. Binge eating is as bad as not eating at all. It turns food into a fetish. You get to a point where you no longer enjoy eating, and you just do it automatically.

I am pretty much into fat positivism and follow Intuitive Eating. You have to learn to listen to your body, as it won't always crave KFC or McDonald's. If it does, educate your palate! There's so much outside for you. Gourmet food, fruits, veggies, slow food you can learn to cook. And enjoy. You can eat healthy without giving a hundred shits about your weight, and eat healthy because you ENJOY the food. You can actually crave fruits and veggies and all those things your bimbo friends who follow diets and haven't seen the light HAVE to eat to feel happy and loved. I love Special K as much as I love Fruit Loops. One day I can dine mango and papaya and the other one caramel croissant pudding (Nigella is my homegirl) and the other one sushi and the other one pasta with marinara and red wine. You just have to learn to listen to your body and learn to be like those pregnant girls with bizarre cravings. As they instinctively eat what their babies need, we should instinctively eat what our bodies need. It will sound like one of those infomercials, but I've only been doing this for a month and I feel great! Incredibly more active and happier for someone with chronic anemia and PCOS. It's ok if you only crave junk food, but give a little chance to cuisine! You've got nothing to lose.

Oh, and I'm fat. And gorgeous, and with curves. But that doesn't mean women like me are the only real women out there. Real women come in all shapes. I have friends who happen to be stick-thin and they are extremely awesome, both inside and outside. We are all beautiful as we are. There's no need to be a fascist against thin people, just like there's no need to be a fascist against fat people.

Lily Rose: that Miss Platnum song/video is amazing. The lyrics are more positive than obsessive. It's very catchy and empowering. And doesn't she have a kickarse wardrobe? Haha just a thought.

I didn't like it, overall.

a) Gluttonous (over-indulgence and over-consumption) does not have a positive connotation. Maybe if they'd been talking about having a healthy appetite I'd be more receptive, but to label that "Gluttonous" makes me feel sick.

b) Those woman are beautiful and curvy, but they are not overweight or fat and I doubt they are actually "Gluttonous," so they are setting the weight-bar pretty low for a person who actually has a problem over-eating or over-indulging.

I'd much prefer to see beautiful curvy average weight women like these singing about a normal appetite OR plus-size women singing this song.

I prefer the Full Body Project: http://www.amazon.com/Full-Body-Project-Photographs-Leonard/dp/0979472725

Or the Fat Rant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUTJQIBI1oA

For me, it was mildly amausing, however I cant get over the feeling that it is really petty mud-slinging at the end of the day. Eating nothing and under-nourishment of the 'zero' generation versus this crowd (of gorgeous, curvy girls) talking about over-indulgence and fastfood like its the cleverest come-back ever. I agree with some people that it could also be construed as a personal hit at Fergie, whose original song it is.
I would be unwilling to say that it promotes a progressive, feminist attitude, hitting back at abnormal eating habits, stereotypes etc. It is actually feeding into other stereotypes: the concept that women who are always hungry or who eat=gluttonous. It doesnt promote self-worth, a healthy lifestyle and respect for your body. Yes, women (people in general) should be allowed to eat what they want without feeling victimised, at the same time, moderation has always been the key to a healthy lifestyle.

I would worry, however, if my life revolved around food to the point where I kept a food log, however.

Food logs are usually kept by dieters trying to make sure they don't eat too much in a given day. I think this video was trying to turn that around.

I'm adding my comments a little late, but oh well:

Imagine a world where women are shamed and constrained from staying up late at night (OK maybe this is actually true in some places, but imagine it in the US). And imagine if there were article after article which talked about how "lack of sleep" harms your health (which of course, it does!) But these articles regularly also zeroed in on women - giving them tips about how to get to bed earlier and featuring pictures of women with bags under their eyes, etc.

Now imagine that Feministing posts a video of women singing praises about "staying up all night - any night I want" (or something to that effect).

And then take a look at the large number of comments which say "oh that video is such a bad example - too many people stay up late and they shouldn't think its OK - what if people start thinking that having bags under your eyes is attractive?"

The comments themselves are part of the controlling of women, see?

And can anyone also see why a guy chiming in "I happen to find a woman who looks sleepy to be HOT - they shouldn't sleep so much!" is totally unhelpful?

In actual U.S. culture, of course, sleeping too little is seen as virtuous (especially if it's because you're working hard) and you would never have a million comments about how unhealthy it is. No one talks about the burden people place on others by not getting enough shut-eye (even though it can be as dangerous to drive tired as it is to drive drunk, for example). No, it's only things that give us pleasure (like eating) which are commented on ad nauseum.

Personally, if I find the time, I will choose first to catch up on sleep before I exercise. The way I see it, I'm benefitting my health either way, and sleeping is much more enjoyable. And I happen to live in a world where I get no feeling of moral superiority for it.

Wow. Weight seems to be the most sensitive issue on these boards.

1. About the video - it's hilarious. For all of the people hand-wringing over the word "gluttonous," the original song is called "Glamourous." I think that in context, the word fits. Context matters.

2. The junk food part was something I noticed, but again *in context* it didn't bother me as much because I think the point is about not being ashamed to eat. Many women are, so it's nice to see this portrayed in a fun, lighthearted way. I would have liked to see a part in there about moderation - but can we say one point at a time? I think they made the point they were going for quite well in the limited time they had.

3. Finally, I've said it on these boards before and I'll say it again - losing weight can help you be healthier, and unfortunately, that might just mean exercising also. As for the question of why should anyone care, because our national health care bill is skyrocketing - and will continue to do so - because people don't make the right choices. Our personal choices have an impact on the whole, like it or not. And, like it or not, losing weight is an important part of being healthy. Just accept it. And don't give me that "size 8 with a heart condition and I'm size 20 and perfectly healthy" bit. A size 20 would feel better as a 14. Any doctor will tell you that. All sorts of health risks decline based on just a 5% loss in weight.

Please ladies - it's one thing to complain about conforming to the male ideal - it's another to realize that we as women have the option - and the power - to live lives that are healthy emotionally, spiritually, and yes - physically.

Thank you FeministLawProf - your #3 illustrates a perfect example of what I'm talking about!

" Real men know that women are supposed to have curves. Real men love curves in women.
If you really step back and think about it the people most driving the fashion industry are gay males. (For whatever reason) gay males in the fashion industry seem intent on selecting waif-like malnourished models that seem like totally sexless androgynous humans.

I've occasionally seen runway models walking flipping through channels, and I don't remember being attracted to a single solitary one."

Real women like men who aren't condescending, homophobic and insulting to slim women and pretty much all men.

Just my two cents.

" Real men know that women are supposed to have curves. Real men love curves in women.
If you really step back and think about it the people most driving the fashion industry are gay males. (For whatever reason) gay males in the fashion industry seem intent on selecting waif-like malnourished models that seem like totally sexless androgynous humans.

I've occasionally seen runway models walking flipping through channels, and I don't remember being attracted to a single solitary one."

Real women like men who aren't condescending, homophobic and insulting to slim women and pretty much all men.

Just my two cents.

" Real men know that women are supposed to have curves. Real men love curves in women.
If you really step back and think about it the people most driving the fashion industry are gay males. (For whatever reason) gay males in the fashion industry seem intent on selecting waif-like malnourished models that seem like totally sexless androgynous humans.

I've occasionally seen runway models walking flipping through channels, and I don't remember being attracted to a single solitary one."

Real women like men who aren't condescending, homophobic and insulting to slim women and pretty much all men.

Just my two cents.

Hey everyone. Bodies are bodies are bodies. Some will be slim and some will be curvy, no matter what.

As a nation, however, we have a huge problem with obesity, as a result of the fatty, sugary, processed junk that we eat way, way too much of. The problem has little to do with the fat on our hips and everything to do with the fat in our arteries. Over a quarter of us will die from heart disease.

Everyone is, of course, entitled to do what they want with their bodies, but a heart attack is a scary, miserable experience, not only for the person having the heart attack, but for everyone who cares about them.

My children's grandmother died at the age of 56 of a heart attack. She was diabetic. She had been overweight for upwards of 30 years, clinically obese since she was 30, and had always told me she just didn't have time to exercise or eat well. She was a bright, articulate, passionate woman who achieved a great deal in her life, and we miss her terribly.

I didn't care one little bit what she looked like and neither did my daughters. But there is a direct link between what she ate and her lack of physical activity, and the diseases that ultimately killed her. And we really do care about that.

Again, everyone is entitled to do what they want. But I would be happiest if we all threw away our scales and kept food and exercise journals: The best way to live to see our grandchildren grow up is to make sure we eat five to nine servings of fruits and vegetables every day, and to get plenty of moderate physical exercise.

There is absolutely no question that the media gives us unrealistically thin images of women to compare ourselves to. This is wrong. Dying of preventable diseases is wrong too. Please, please, for your own sake and the sake of the people who love you, take care of the body you have, no matter what shape it is.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/heartdiseasesprevention.html

i'm thin and i'm definitely not healthy. i'm sick all the time, i have trouble eating enough food, and especially enough healthy food, i don't exercise because i'm always sick, but if you saw me on the street (or in a bikini) you would think i was "healthy" and would never think to pass judgment on my body/weight/lifestyle. i'm thinner than i used to be when i worked out every day. i'm definitely not healthier.

"All sorts of health risks decline based on just a 5% loss in weight."

oh that's not a generalized statement at all, no... I guess I should just tell my 5'8" friend who weighs 100 pounds to just lose a little bit. she will be OH so much healthier. Thank you, SO MUCH for clearing everything up.

/snark

"All sorts of health risks decline based on just a 5% loss in weight."

oh that's not a generalized statement at all, no... I guess I should just tell my 5'8" friend who weighs 100 pounds to just lose a little bit. she will be OH so much healthier. Thank you, SO MUCH for clearing everything up.

/snark

i love the part where she's online and typing "BRB I'M EATING!!!!" and when she's telling the paleta man to give her 2 more ice creams.

this seems totally positive to me. i think its mostly junk food because it's a spoof.

and i agree with the interpretation that she's owning her food log, inverting the whole diet process because she's eating when she's hungry instead of analyzing her hunger.

maybe i like it so much because my boyfriend is always making fun of me because i eat more than he does and i don't try and hide it. he likes to tease me and call me behemoth.(according to my BMI (which i know probably is not even a good way to judge) i am underweight)

if the women in the video were overweight or obese (and they don't look like it to me) then i can see how the message would be promoting something unhealthy

if the women in the video looked like the women we normally see in the media then it would be a cruel joke

but the women are real looking normal women, celebrating their bodies and okay with themselves and their apetites. i don't see anything damaging or unhealthy about that.

Real women like men who aren't condescending, homophobic and insulting to slim women and pretty much all men.

Just my two cents.
---------------------------
I'm not being condescending, homophobic, or insulting.
I'm just telling you my preferences. Don't feminists (only ALL THE TIME) lay belumia, and anorexia at the feet of men because of the Beauty Myth?
I've never made fun of anybody based on size either to there face or after they've left the room.
Whatever you're size: good for you! I'm just telling you my preference in the type of lady I would date.
I'm not being a homophobe by just making a comment about homosexuals. The fashion industry IS hugely populated by homosexual men. And (I'm sure) they do have a lot of influence on what types of models get picked.

Lastly I am not being insulting to women. There is a clarification I have to make here: there is a difference between being thin and the types of women chosen as runway models. These models look dangerously skinny! They do NOT appear healthy. Men (or women) are not going to find someon attractive who appears unhealthy. Have YOU ever looked at historical footage of auschwitz prisoners and said GOD HE'S SO HOT! Of course not.

I think it's funny that people on this board seem to put men into a catch 22. Anorexia is men's fault--they're trying to make women achieve an impossible level of thinness! You appreciate a full-figured women! You bastard!
I guess sometimes all you can do is laugh.

Lastly Vicky Wire:
the introductory comments on the article were:
----------------------------
"It's called "Gluttonous" and it features AWESOMELY CURVY ladies singing and rapping about their healthy appetites.

-----------------------------
Do you ONLY flail men for making judgements about women's body sizes?

I was really surprised to read all of your negative comments toward the video. It's not the biggest contribution to feminism but I don't think it's a mockery of fat women either.

I don't think that the junk she ate during the video was meant to represent what she ate on a day to day basis, but more of a "fuck you" to all the people in the world who tell women it's not okay for them to eat junk food...........ever.

Kudos to the girl who made this video. Alot of people try to tell women that bikinis and junk food do not go hand in hand together and she seems to break this stereotype.

also, for a site that is supposed to be devoted to feminism I find it really strange that more than half of you think that's it's shameful for her to be comfortable enough with her body to wear a bikini.

I was really surprised to read all of your negative comments toward the video. It's not the biggest contribution to feminism but I don't think it's a mockery of fat women either.

I don't think that the junk she ate during the video was meant to represent what she ate on a day to day basis, but more of a "fuck you" to all the people in the world who tell women it's not okay for them to eat junk food...........ever.

Kudos to the girl who made this video. Alot of people try to tell women that bikinis and junk food do not go hand in hand together and she seems to break this stereotype.

also, for a site that is supposed to be devoted to feminism I find it really strange that more than half of you think that's it's shameful for her to be comfortable enough with her body to wear a bikini.

In general, poor health choices lead to higher health costs over a lifetime. Insurance companies form pools of people, some healthy and some unhealthy, to spread out the risk. When you consciously decide to be unhealthy "because it feels good", you increase the likelihood that the insurance company will have to pay more money for your health care in the future. Who do you think those extra costs trickle down to? Because of the poor health choices of others, we all pay higher insurance premiums. Because of poor health choices, we all pay higher taxes to fund Medicare than we would if people chose to take care of their health.

Furthermore, do you know the impact that your eating choices have on the earth? If you are eating more calories than you should, you are having upstream impacts that you don't even realize. More acres of land to grow the grain to feed the cows that become your Double Whoppers. More hydrocarbons spent to produce fertilizer and fuel the combines that harvest the crops. More water to irrigate the extra acres. Multiply this by 100 million other Americans who eat more than they should, and you might start to realize why tens of thousands of people in poorer parts of the world starve to death every day. Americans are resource hogs, and we are depleting the earth.

So don't tell me that hedonistic attitudes toward food don't affect anybody besides the person expressing them. Yes, it is healthy to enjoy yourself and perhaps indulge once in awhile. But if you have an ethical worldview you should realize that your choices have ramifications, and the world doesn't revolve around what makes you personally feel good.

My first impression is that this video is a means of "breaking the frame" of food attitudes. There is so much negative thinking and unhealthy thinking about eating food that sometimes a person just has to hit back with the opposite message. There have been so many times that I have eaten a cupcake not just because I wanted to, but because I am so tired of all the social messages telling me to not eat the cupcake for stupid reasons. The food messages women are given are so intense that they make the act of eating a sugary, fatty, carbohydrate-loaded food a socially radical act. The bodies of the women in this video are in no way fat or unhealthy looking. I don't get the impression that they are at all gluttons in reality. I get the impression that these women eat well and eat enough. I think they are responding to a social pressure that tells women that if you look like these ladies you must be a glutton.

Furthermore, there's no way the women who made this video were not, in some measure, being sarcastic. They are conveying a certain contempt for a world that calls them fat, that makes the consumption of cupcakes a mortal sin, and that, in general, has an opinion about every blessed thing they put in their mouths.

It's not perfect, or particularly brilliant, and there's a little too much room for interpretation, but all and all, I think it is a necessary reaction to a lot of social confusion and frustration about food.

Posted by badnfluence:
So don't tell me that hedonistic attitudes toward food don't affect anybody besides the person expressing them. Yes, it is healthy to enjoy yourself and perhaps indulge once in awhile. But if you have an ethical worldview you should realize that your choices have ramifications, and the world doesn't revolve around what makes you personally feel good.
--------------------------
Uh-oh!? HEDONISTIC? Are you making a JUDGEMENT of how people treat their bodies (or what they decide to put into them?)?

What about "my body, my choice?"
How exactly does this make you any different than the moralizing and demonizing that religious groups have against drinking, or the government's insane drug war on (otherwise) law-abiding pot-smokers?

The answer: it doesn't.

Being accused of morality-spewing isn't SO FUN when the shoe's on the other hand is it badnfluence? Shouldn't an enlightened feminist know better?

(Shoe on the other hand?)

Jabes1966:
Wow, earlier I just thought you were homophobic and a little dull for your previous posts. Now...just wow.

"Hedonism: Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses."

Now wouldn't you say that definition applies to what EG said earlier in the thread? I implied no value judgement, I only used the most appropriate word, nay the very DEFINITION of her espoused life philosophy.

Secondly, when did feminism and environmentalism become mutually exclusive? Yes, you can do whatever you want to your body. However, I pointed out that your actions have consequences that reach far beyond yourself, and many people don't even think about them. If I am "moralizing" by pointing out that Americans tend to overconsume, then so be it. In that case, anybody who supplies ANY argument whatsoever for or against certain behavior is "moralizing". You are "moralizing" by telling me that an "enlightened feminist" shouldn't moralize! That's fine...I'm the asshole for thinking that people who drive Hummers to work are irresponsible, and that people who consistently disregard their own health at the expense of our insurance payments, taxes, and environment are selfish.

Can we get some nuance here?

Of course a person who is underweight (100 lbs) probably shouldn't lose any more weight. But a person who is 5'8'' and 200 lbs would probably feel better at 180, and her risks of diabetes, heart disease (the #1 killer of women by the way), high blood pressure, will all go down. This is a fact - it is not speculation. Why do so many people have trouble acknowleding that although a size 2 is definately unhealthy, a size 20 is similarly unhealthy? Where is the recognition of the opposite spectrum? Have we been so traumatized by the male gaze that any suggestion of weight loss - no matter how reasonable - is a personal attack? This is intriguing to me. In my opinion, we need to reclaim ownership over our bodies in all ways, and this also means keeping them physically healthy. You don't have to look like a Victoria's Secret waif or even Wonder Woman, but why not try to keep your body in a good physical condition? I don't get it - can someone please help me understand the sensitvity here?

To the ladies running the site: it seems to be that we as women need a place to enage all of the myriad ways food and weight impact us. It seems to be such a touchy subject for so many everytime it comes up. Can such a place be created on these boards? Thank you.

badnfluence -

good point on the environmental impacts as well!

Yes, I will explain it to you.

Here's the thing. Fat people are discriminated against for no other reason than because they are fat. So because people don't like them, they make up a bunch of shit about them that isn't true.

Fat itself does not, DOES NOT, cause those health problems. You know what does? Inactivity and poor diet. Apparently it's hard for some people to seperate, but they are seperate. Almost every "fat is unhealthy" study cannot be remotely accurate because they simply do not discriminate between adipose tissue and inactivity/diet. Look at some of the studies, not just reports.

So no, a person at 200 pounds doesn't HAVE to feel better at 180. Maybe they feel just fine the way they are. Maybe they exercise more and eat better than you or me. It's about lifestyle, not fricken tissue.

This is my point badnfluence.
The word hedonistic is a CONDEMNATION of somebodies lifestyle.

What I'm showing is that (I believe) most feminists are TOTALLY A-OK with making judgements, moralizing, and telling people how they should run their lives, as long as nobody's doing to YOU!

That's the definition of hypocrisy.

The other rationalizations (it affects others, it's self-destructive) you go on to make for judging other people, these same groups I mentioned (religious anti-alcohol, and governments anti-drug) can AND DO make the SAME rationalizations! So my question to you again is what makes your passing judgements on others any different?

Well, hey! At least you don't think I'm dull anymore, lol!

Jabes1966:
Haha, I'm not biting again. Go troll elsewhere.