Amen!

This was my laugh for the morning :).

I love it when magazines, etc., come out with declarative headlines like this. It's sort of the reverse of the "duh" headlines (bisexuality exists! or, my personal favorite, when they rediscover "unschooling" every few years like it's a new trend) . . . in this case, they're just making shite up and pretending it's true, rather than catching up with the truth everyone else already knows about ;).

And, ***sigh*** isn't there a way to, like, call a MSM moratorium on all the bitching and moaning about youth? I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate the way generations get pitted against each other. So much energy wasted in meaningless competition!

Rock on, Jessica. First off, can we PLEASE let go of the idea that we need to show "sisterhood" by voting for Hillary Clinton because she's a woman? I'm sorry, but I don't think she's the best candidate - I think it's great that her candidacy is being taken seriously (by voters, at least), but I hate this idea that feminism means thinking with your vagina. Also...there are smart, aware young feminists, which I should know since I, you know, am one.

Jessica, I know you are probably sick of seeing the "Feminism is dead" sentiment parroted in every rag on each continent. I've only seen what you've pointed out and I already find it tiresome.

This one looks different to me, though. The kernel of Vohn Hahn's analysis rings true.

Our mothers protected us — and they did too good a job of it. Younger women were simply raised to expect equality, our mothers worked hard behind our backs to ensure it. Only later, if at all, did we find out from them that they were discriminated against in the office, told their uteruses would fall out if they tried to play basketball (Really! That was my aunt!). Only later do we find that we, too, are subject to discrimination — and what a shock when that happens.

This is their victory: that we do expect equality. That deep in our hearts, we expect it and whenever we receive evidence that we do not have it, it seems to us a moral affront, a viscerally obvious injustice. This is their legacy.

Vohn Hahn critiques younger women's indifference. Some younger women are, indeed, indifferent. You might not know them, but you write for them beautifully. They should not be blamed for the way their mothers set them up. Nor should their mothers. It had to be done that way at the time.

The generational divide is younger women's responsibility, too. By standing up and waving the torch, you are doing all you can to show older feminists that yes, it did get passed successfully, and to close that gap.

I think Peepers makes some good points. I have to say that it bothers me that so many young women turn themselves off from others the moment they hear the word "feminist" though. It happens to me all the time in classes and in groups. It's an odd thing I've never really understood.

HEAR HEAR!

I agree, Peepers. My concern is, though - when we keep complaining about apathetic young women instead of lauding those are amazing activists, we're ensuring that young women who maybe aren't into feminism won't see the incredible women who are. I think people are more likely to get involved if they see accurate representations of their peers, you know? But yes, good points all.

Younger women were simply raised to expect equality, our mothers worked hard behind our backs to ensure it.

That's just the thing, though. Many younger women DON'T expect equality; they parrot the sexist double-standards they hear all around them. Plenty of young women embrace sexist stereotypes and are proud of it.

If someone told my 11 yr. old daughter that feminism was out of style, she would look at them as if they were crazy. She knows it is not a trend, but a belief system that is important for all people.

I am a 36 yr old feminist, who majored in Women Studies in college, and who has always been vocal and proud.

I find it really hard to believe my peers from the 90's have all disappeared.

Maybe we just need our kid's generation to reach teendom and kick some ass?

The whole debate over feminism seems forced to me, but maybe I am just from an overlooked generation of feminists.

Common trope in these articles is to extrapolate whatever their own daughter currently feels about feminism and activism to all young women, forever. It would be nice if all 18 year old girls preferred activism to shopping(or whatever), but YOUR 18 year old, right now, doesn't represent all girls and women 12-40. And it doesn't represent her opinion in the future.

She knows it is not a trend, but a belief system that is important for all people.

Hear! hear!

That's the other obviously annoying thing about the formulation of the headline/story--it trivializes beliefs by saying they're merely "trendy." So those of us who are feminists will no longer be so when the wind changes (or we're so out of date we don't know the wind already has!)?

In my own life, I experienced a little of what Peepers was talking about--but because I thought of feminism as something you were rather than a specific set of issues or activism, I've pretty much called myself a feminist since I learned what the word meant (pre-teen) . . . Yet I still had my "click" moments in college when I discovered that the majority of women in my incoming class (at a conservative Christian school) believed women should be subservient to their husbands. It was culture shock. And it made me realize how much feminist activism still needs to be done, not just living out my feminist beliefs in a more everyday way. (Yes, I lived a sheltered adolescence ;) . . .)

I agree with kamikazebirds that women often stop identifying as soon as they hear "feminist" - this is problematic because research shows that feminist identity predicts collective action. To me, activisim is what it's all about so it is a huge problem that women are turned off by "feminism" even though they may identify with feminist beliefs.

You may not like the headline, but it seems to me that the article is putting forward much the same argument as Jessica does in Full Frontal Feminism - that young women have been "discoursed" out of identifying as feminist, while taking for granted the achievements and battles won by others. It's surely a good thing that young women expect as a matter of course to get equal pay etc.... time enough for them to start their own battles when they realise that there are more battles to fight.

I'm also sick of the assumption that somehow older generations were never indifferent. Guess what -- even in the 70's, there were plenty of women who didn't identify as feminists and still don't. In every generation, there are those who give a shit and those who don't.

What are our priorities here? In the end, my goal is equality for the next generation, not their gratitude.

Well that was sort of a downer.

I like how Vohn Hahn wrote that feminism is dead because women do not read Ms. anymore. Does she know about all the other feminist magazines out there? I mean I read Ms. but I also like to read Bust. Also, I read an article once that quoted Steinem saying something along the lines that if youngs girls didn't know her name that was ok just as long as they fight for their rights (something like that, sorry I can't find the article).
Anyways, in my opinion this is a redundant headline just to get readers attention. I like how she points out things we need to improve on, that alone tells me that feminism isn't dead because we have a lot to do!

um, how exactly is it our fault that her daughter doesn't know who Gloria Steinem is?

As pointed out above, this isn't another one of those "feminism is dead" pieces. I too have noticed a tendency among some feminists who are my age (twenties) to look at the second wave as a slightly embarrassing elderly relative.

Feminism (to me) is about living in a society where I can make my own choices, without pressure or expectations from society about what those choices "should" be. Any assumptions that as a "feminist" I should think or make certain choices defeats the entire point!!! It's about being free to make choices, not what those actual choices are!

Feminism is out of style? Damn. Guess I'm not stylish anymore.
Guess I should tell the other women in the feminist group at my college that we need to disband, seeing as how we're uncool. And, of course, the cause we believe in is dead.

I don't think it has anything to do with "Young women don't need to be NOW members to be activists, and they don't need to read Ms. or vote for Hillary Clinton"

Whatever, clearly, if this is what is being said, than what we are doing is NOT working. Those who call themselves NOW activists and those that don't, those that read Ms and those that don't, and those that are voting for Hillary and those that aren't....

We need to stop the blaming, stop the generational wars and get to work! Blaming NOW for all that's wrong with feminism is absurd.

If people outside of our little circle once again say we're dead or unstylish, well we need to prove that we aren't. Together.

"um, how exactly is it our fault that her daughter doesn't know who Gloria Steinem is?"

This sort of reminds me of this post: http://feministing.com/archives/008423.html

most specifically the Eibach quote. This lady needs to look outside of herself a bit.

and by "this lady" i mean the reporter (i realized my wording was confusing)

I don't see how this is helping feminism by saying in bold, "Young women don't need to be NOW members to be activists, and they don't need to read Ms. or vote for Hillary Clinton to prove their feminist bona fides."?

Let's encourage women to be feminists, not try and promote divisions between those who join NOW, those who read Ms., those who vote for Hillary Clinton, and those who do not. We will all be stronger if we work together and encourage feminist activism of any type.

a-woman, Maeowin.

sorry, that a-woman was actually meant for feminist but agreed, maeowin

Where has this retard been the last few weeks, living in a hole with no access to any media? If feminism isn't still needed, then what of the moron journalists who have been frying Hillary for simultaneous politics-pursuing and vagina-having?

I don't think feminism is dead. Activists like you are keeping it alive, but in washington and outside of the cities young women are shunning feminist ideals becuase of the stereotypes associated with feminism. When most women of my generation think of feminism, the think of "Abandoning feminity" that's really not the case. I think that feminism hasn't nationally crafted and passed any legislation for years, but I don't think it's dead, just currently marginalized. But, that can allways change.

This article doesn't bother me the way a "Feminism is dead" article would. I think saying that feminism is "out of style" right now is probably quite accurate (for the general population), and not the same thing as saying that it's "dead" and no longer useful. I do understand where Jessica is coming from in that the characterization definitely does not hold true in blog communities like these and probably not in much of New York City either, or large cities in general, where young feminists/activists have more of a chance to organize and see each other on a regular basis. But I live in the rural Midwest -- and in my experience, admitting to being a feminist outside of a college environment (and sometimes within it) is unsettling and unfavorable to many people. At the very least you get a funny look. Telling my dad I was a feminist might as well have been coming out of the closet, as far as he was concerned. It is in no way a fashionable thing to do. So, at least in the extreme rural areas of the Midwest where I'm from, the feminist notions that flow through sites like these might as well be underground -- that's how out of favor they are.

I'm a feminist and I have never read a word of Ms. Magazine.

So, at least in the extreme rural areas of the Midwest where I'm from, the feminist notions that flow through sites like these might as well be underground -- that's how out of favor they are.

Just as in urban areas, I think it depends on the crowd you run with. All of the people I associate with here in South Dakota are feminists. Does that mean all South Dakotans are feminists? Of course not. Neither are all New Yorkers. I'd like to see evidence of this magical time when feminism was really in style. Generally social movements aren't 'in style.' If they were embraced by everyone, we wouldn't really need to keep fighting for progress.

Meh, it's the Global Male, what do you expect? Their reading demographic is overwhelmingly white, middle-aged, insecure sexist men, and they do everything in their power to alienate everyone else. They're not quite Canada's answer to the Washington Times, aka the National Post, but number two tries harder.

Hey Jessica. I see your point. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wasn't looking at it that way. Thanks for pointing that out.

Agree completely with the OP. I do recall a certain Steinem article a few weeks back that sparked a whole "oppression olympics" debate, and now NOW-NYC's shellacking of endorsing Obama as the "Ultimate Betrayal"? Maybe some young women don't follow Steinem or NOW because those people simply don't speak for them. If we expect people to put aside their reason and logic and buy magazines or join organizations just because they say they're feminist how reasonable is that? I support equality, but that doesn't mean I have to vote for Clinton, nor must I read some of the schlock Steinem puts out. If we define feminism solely by its past we lose sight of its future, which is in sites like this very one, or in individual people taking a stand for what they believe. When feminism is defined as buying magazines or reading a certain writer it loses its most precious commodity, and that's the fight for equality, including the right to not read those magazines or writers.

Feminism is dead....Right.... Just like all the little women are dropping their law careers and managerial positions to rush home and have babies because they found out they "can't have it all." Just like all the teenagers have stopped dating and started having "purity balls" with their daddies. Right, right....

What planet do these people live on, anyway?

The problem isn't the end of feminism as a belief system, it's that the WORD has become scary. There are millions of women out there with feminist beliefs that won't refer to themselves as such because they are afraid of the stereotypical hairy-legged man-hater image.

But...um...they seriously don't know who Gloria Steinem is? Wow. That may be more of a comment on education (in and out of school) than on the alleged death of a movement.

I can understand not reading Ms. though. I didn't start until very recently. It's really hard to find in a lot of areas. Hell, the Barnes and Noble in Union Square didn't have it last time I was there, imagine living in some un-enlightened town out in the sticks somewhere.

"The problem isn't the end of feminism as a belief system, it's that the WORD has become scary. There are millions of women out there with feminist beliefs that won't refer to themselves as such"

Don't forget the menz who believe in feminism, but don't like the label.

I for one don't like the label feminist, as its meaning is good but the word itself is hardly gender-neutral. I prefer the term egalitarian. I agree with many of the tenets of feminism, but the truth is most people draw connotations from words based on the root of that word. I support equality for everyone because it's right, and so I would never call myself a feminist, as that's just as ludicrous to me as calling myself a masculinist.

At no point during the growth and maturation of my feminism have I ever felt that I was part of a wave or a movement or a revolution or what have you. Feminism is none of those things to me. It's a social philosophy. It doesn't change based on public support or media coverage. Its same tenets and goals will always apply everywhere, and getting everybody subscribing to the same magazine is not among them. I'd like to think its reach is just a bit broader than that.

Then again, I'm just a flaky, uncultivated teenager, so what do I know.

(I will say, I think the author of that article makes a good observation about the superficiality of the Girl Power myth that was -- and still is -- marketed to girls and young women and how that's partly responsible for distracting them from the things that are still very, very wrong. But to blame that on the failure of feminism? Like I said, feminism doesn't change. Society changes. It's a new kind of problem we're facing today, that's all. Saying that today's feminists are largely failures because twelve-year-olds are piling on the makeup without asking why is like saying that the suffragists were largely failures because Susan B. Anthony got arrested. That's not a failure, it's a challenge. We're working on it, I promise.)

This is silliness. I became president of my state NOW chapter when I was 28. I'm young and I'm NOW - they are not diametrically opposed. You all talk about the organization like it's monolithic. It's not. I joined because it had a structure that was conducive to being civically and culturally engaged in my state. Not because I thought I was joining a cabal.

BTW, not all NOW members, in fact, not all NOW state presidents are supporting Hillary. Marcia Papas (President of NY NOW) by no means speaks for the national organization or the even 98% of NOW members.

Being passe is not a bad thing. Being dead is, but the article makes no such claim.

Thanks for those words, Jessica. I became a NOW leader in my state when I was 24 and had several leadership positions since. And there are many, many of us that love and support the work of NOW.

Frankly, all the NOW bashing here is just making me feel more polarized from this site, which is usually my morning jolt.

Isolation -- from feminist ideas and of feminists from each other -- is what hurts the rural Midwest's perception of feminism, not lack of actual feminists. But for people I knew grewing up, for example, the existence of one or two known feminists in a town of 800 was just not enough to recommend the movement as desirable or useful to them. Luckily, the Internet helps with this problem.