Moe is utterly clueless.

Women suck for voting for Clinton (for whatever reason) but she's the bees knees for her undying support of a candidate who "makes her panties wet." Fucking hypocrite.
Last time I checked, YOU'RE A WOMAN TOO.

Seriously - I don't understand where the difference comes in between voting for Hillary 'cause she cried or voting for Obama 'cause he makes you feel ticklish down there. Both are awful, awful reasons to vote for someone.

I know why I'm going to vote for Hillary, if I can - and I know that if Obama gets it, I'll be thrilled for THAT, too.

Maintaining that level of vitriol has to get hard after a while.

Ugh, that's disgusting. At this point I'm undecided, but I honestly trust Clinton more than the other two, and I bet you I'm not the only one. I'm not as convinced on her policies, but I trust her to do a good job and not get bowled over by the Republicans (which I think will happen with Obama, and might with Edwards).

Does this mean I suck and I'm using a vagina litmus test? I'm sure that there'll be enough pundits out there convinced that the only reason women vote for her is because she's a woman.

Ugh.

Hell, if women voted for Hillary simply because she's a woman, then we'd win the damn Presidency. I don't care why they voted, we should respect them. Ugh.

(Maybe she and Gloria Steinem should have a cage match or something.)

At this point, trying to parse out people's reasons for switching over to Clinton when Obama was polling so high is mostly guesswork. Another issue that's being discussed on various blogs is the Bradley effect, or the disconnect between polls where white people say they will vote for a black candidate but then turn around and vote for a white candidate at the polling station. The Agonist was talking about this earlier.

But I do think there's something to your suggestion that maybe women were a little angry at being patronized with all the anti-Hilary commentary surrounding her emotional moment (which didn't seem to harm Huckabee any when he choked up a few weeks ago).

Out of the three front runners, I most identify with John Edwards political policies. I love what he has to say, I think he's the most progressive of the three by far.

But I just watched the New Hampshire debates and I found myself totally excited about Clinton as a candidate for the first time. Some of it has to do with her moment of truth and vulnerability but A LOT of it had to do with how Edwards and Obama gang up on her constantly and how she fought back and held her ground. They pat each other on the back and rail Clinton every chance they get.

I think that's disgusting and as a woman, I know what that's like. Everyone was saying she was attacked because she was the front runner but after Iowa she wasn't - so what is their excuse now?

I think that post on Jezebel was made to provoke outrage and tons of comments. Gawker media now pays bloggers by page views, so if a comments thread bubbles w/ controversy Moe gets paid more. 450 comments in 2 hours when the average is under 100. You have to wonder if Moe really meant what was said.

This is why I stopped reading Jezebel, and I second SarahMC's calling on the hypocrite.

Ppl who are so easily swayed by a man who speaks so well about so little really shouldn't be throwing stones.

And I too am tired of Obama and Edwards (and tons of random other ppl) attaching Clinton every chance they get. Attach her policies, her record, etc, etc, that's fine. But do they? Not quite. There's more important things to talk about; like cleavage, pantsuits, crying, ironing, bleh, bleh, bleh. Obviously, the big problem is that she hasn't the penis for the job.

Jezebel sucks more and more every day, and Moe is usually at the root of it. I think the era of snark is on its way out (finally), so she'll be irrelevant in a few months anyway.

I wouldn't vote for Hillary because of her position on the war, but goddamn if I wasn't rooting for her last night. Women aren't stupid. We read MoDo's columns and watch Chris Matthews pinch HRC's cheeks, and we know that she gets treated the way she does because she's a woman. Nobody else is getting this crap. And if it were one of us or one of our moms, the treatment would be the same. I'd love for Hillary to lose the election based on her positions, not because her sex threatens people.

I love Jezebel but Moe can be pretty fucking weird. She claims to not be a feminist...and once used this to explain why she doesn't do well in relationships, on the grounds that feminists care about their appearance more. Seriously.

If people were positively influenced by the crying, it was because it was a moment of emotional sincerity from a woman whose detractors call her fake. It wasn't, "She cries, and I cry too! I'll vote for her!"

Jeez. I didn't even try to read the full post.

I freely and openly admit that if a female candidate were evenly matched with a male one on issues and abilities and everything, I would vote for the woman over the man because she's a woman. I'm not ashamed of that at all.

However, I plan to vote for Hillary because I have read through her platform and agree with almost all of it. She also has lots of experience in Washington, we know she can take abuse and still stand up for her ideas and beliefs, and she's extraordinarily intelligent. I won't vote for Obama because I think he seems like he's got the charismatic speaker thing down but there isn't as much actual substance behind there. Edwards, I have decided, is an ass. I also read that he doesn't support gay marriage or civil unions.

(This refers to primaries. Ultimately I'm sure I'll support whatever Dem gets the official nomination in November)

Not bitchy, Jen, absolutely justified. In fact, I have a feeling that my own response would have been a lot meaner.

As for everyone else's comments about Jezebel . . . yeah. There's a reason I don't read it. This is it; I find anti-feminist or racist crap there constantly, and they need to be called out on it a lot more.

Wow. I can't believe a woman wrote this. Such anti-woman sentiment, and so degrading to women's capacity for logic and decision making.

I read Jezebel daily for about two weeks and stopped because it reminded me of the gross faux-feminism that Jane magazine used to espouse. Not surprised that this anti-woman sentiment would come from that site.

This Jezebel opinion sucks. It just shows (again) how something Clinton does (showing emotion) is attacked by both sides, while Obama is praised for the practically same thing almost universally (being an emotional speaker). My personal opinion about the NH comeback is that there are a lot of women who assumed (before Iowa) that Clinton could get the nomination without their help. Up until recently, it has been presented in the media as almost an inevitability that she would get the nod. So Iowa perhaps woke up a lot of women, with that sinking feeling of seeing her in 3rd place after we'd been told for so long she would hold her own. I think some NH women must have reacted to that.

I like the comment that a NH voter owned up to on NPR this morning: to her daughter when told "When I grow up I'm not going to call myself a feminist"

"How ungrateful."

While the win may be backlash to the recent attacks it was highly inappropriate to call women stupid for supporting a candidate of either gender.

The fallout of sheer, uncensored hatred this morning is amazing, even to an old fart like me. Rebecca Traister has a great piece over at Salon about how the anger over the way HC's been treated turned into votes.

Rachel Maddow hit the nail on the head: "People feel that the media is piling on Hillary Clinton; they're coming to her defense with their votes."

Women of a certain age know that they'll never see this again. Those second-wave feminists are still out there, voting in numbers larger than ever, and know what it's like to have men smile at you as they work like crazy to keep you down. And like me, they'll never put a bumper sticker on their car, but they'll quietly vote for her, especially when they see the kind of bully-boy stuff Chris Matthews hands out. New Hampshire showed us that.

You're probably right, MirandaJay. As my personal revenge against Nick Denton for killing Gawker, I refuse to click on anything on any of his sites. Jezebel was promising at first, but it's pretty balls now.

I'm not even American, so it's not like I can vote, but I've got to say that the more I hear from Clinton, the more I like her. And I do think that a good hunk of that is because of how well she's been standing up to the constant attacks she's been having to deal with. As a debater in high school, I had to deal with my fair share of "You sound like you're getting a little too upset/personal/what-the-eff-ever; you should consider toning it down if you want people to take you seriously." It's bullshit at every level, and it'd be damn satisfying to see Clinton break through that.

everyone's right that gawker pays by page views so i hope people will stop clicking on that disgusting post. i know both of the women involved in the creation of it in real life and i'm positively appalled they'd say these things. if either of them, moe especially since she's the one ranting about how "stupid" other "pussy" women are, can come up with a reasoned explanation of why they are pro-obama that involves his actual positions, i'd be delighted to start reading jezebel and wonkette again but until then, they can really just piss off.

i was so disappointed by this post, it put me in such an awful mood this morning and i'm not even a definite hillary supporter. i can't imagine reading something like that if i was a hardcore hill person.

Allyzay said it for me - I just couldn't read Moe's post this morning.

I only finally saw the Clinton "cryfest" video yesterday, but can say that it totally made me feel her on a more personal level, something I didn't feel for other candidates. But whatevs, I just don't get all of the Clinton bashing from Obama fans, or any intra-party bashing. I can say that I'm an Obama supporter without bashing Clinton, and if she wins the nomination, I will totally support her (or Edwards for that matter). I just hate the negativity that occurs within a party or among supporters of candidates with similar platforms. It's not necessary to bash one candidate in order to support your own.

As Clinton has said herself recently, "Sexism is alive and well!"

These misogynistic attacks make me sick to my stomach, and they're only going to get worse. Unfortunately, even NPR does not seem willing to admit the extent to which sexism still pervades our society. Guess I'll just have to stop reading the news before breakfast if I don't want to ruin the entire day.

Thank you ladies for having the patience to document all this crap. I don't think I could do it.

Are any of you honestly shocked?

I unabashedly love Jezebel, and I love this blog. I read them for different things. I love the snark and sarcasm and bitchiness. I laugh out loud reading Jezebel all the time; a lot of the commenters are hilarious and ardently feminists, and considering feminists often get bashed for being humorless, I really appreciate that.

Jezebel's focus is different than feministing's, but I read a lot of hard-core feminist comments on there. Like any blog, there are stupid, sexist, and racists comments (many of which get called out and ridiculed).

Look, was this a stupid post on Jezebel? Sure. Feministing also posts stuff sometimes that I think is stupid. But I read them both and enjoy them both. Let's celebrate the range of feminists and women, not bash women who don't think exactly like us! The girl-against-girl BS is exactly what we've been socialized to do since birth, and I'm disappointed to see so many people so ready to jump on that bandwagon.

I love my irreverent, bitchy, and sometimes nasty Jezebel girls, even when they say stuff I don't like.

i have to second what many have said about Jezebel, as well as Gawker. I started reading them because I felt they brought a certain intellectualism to pop culture/celeb gossip. I also thought they properly eviscerated figures who were greedy, banal, blissfully privileged, etc.

But I had to stop reading because of the undisguised, hostile misogyny I saw on both blogs, in the posts as well as the comments. Women were rated according to their fuckability, called fat all the time, and there was no shortage of trans and stripper/hooker bashing. I don't care if it's bitter Gen X irony, I'm still appalled.

This is what I hate in an election cycle and why I don't mind being criticized for focusing on "the horse race" aspect of campaigns.

Jezebel and Feministing should be friends! It's fine to disagree but srsly, look at what the Republican talking points are of late. We are in this together!

I guess putting "stupid" in all caps makes it even uh... stupider. How third grade of you, Moe.

"Look, was this a stupid post on Jezebel? Sure. Feministing also posts stuff sometimes that I think is stupid. But I read them both and enjoy them both. Let's celebrate the range of feminists and women, not bash women who don't think exactly like us! The girl-against-girl BS is exactly what we've been socialized to do since birth, and I'm disappointed to see so many people so ready to jump on that bandwagon."

But Moe is doing just that. She's essentially bashing women who don't share her viewpoint. Her misogyny shouldn't get a pass because she's a woman.

I don't read Jezebel anymore because it has become a clusterfuck and I think Moe's blatant unprofessionalism in how she deals with her readers contributes to it. Responding to criticism or opposing viewpoints with "fuck you, suck my dick" (which she has done) is not witty or insightful, it's unprofessional...and she gets cheered on for it.

It creates (and permits) such a hostile invironment that no real discussion can take place. Instead each thread becomes the reiteration of the same point. The recent posts on forced abortion and China and men's feelings about abortion are good examples of what I am talking about.

Sorry if this comes off as bitchy, but it makes me sick to see a woman discounting and disrespecting other women like this. I don't give a flying fuck what candidate you support.

Wait... are you talking about Samhita's post on veganism yesterday??

I listened today to NH women interviewed on NPR saying they switched to Hillary because they felt sympathy for her after her emotional Portsmouth moment, and I wondered if there might be just such a rift in the feminist community. Because though Moe was perhaps impolitic in the way they put it, there is something slightly insulting to women that they would respond in this way. Or maybe that is my conventional male angle on politics that sees it like that? Introspecting, I found Hillary's post-NH victory speech left me flat, while Obama's "yes we can" gave me literal goosebumps (and that hasn't happened to me before with his speeches as it has with others), so it's not as though I can't respond emotionally to politicians. I don't know...just thinking "out loud".

Alan

I listened today to NH women interviewed on NPR saying they switched to Hillary because they felt sympathy for her after her emotional Portsmouth moment....there is something slightly insulting to women that they would respond in this way.

I don't see why--voters vote based on emotional gut reactions all the time. Why should women have to be so much better than men? Think of all the men who we hear voted for Bush because "he seemed like the kind of guy you could have a beer with." But also, I found that speech pretty moving--she seemed to be genuinely fighting back a visceral reaction not only to the train wreck that this country's government has become as well as the vitriol directed at her. Another question: did they switch to her because of the emotional reaction or because of the shitstorm directed at her after that reaction?

SlackerInc,

What you have to understand is that the women who voted for her for that reason (allegedly) were not uninformed about, or opposed to Clinton beforehand. They were probably supporters of one of the other candidates, with admiration and respect for Clinton as well. The kind of women who'll be happy to vote for ANY of the Dem candidates in November. The onslaught of misogyny she has been dealing with may have just tipped the scales a bit and convinced them that, what the hell, they're going to vote for her now.

It is not an unreasonable thing to do. It's not like they weren't involved in politics at all and then suddenly they registered to vote. A lot of us women like more than one of the candidates pretty equally.

Sarah and EG,

Thanks for your thoughts. As I said, I did respond emotionally to Obama, though I'm normally dispassionate and pragmatic about my choices (I'm a big fan of electability). I am somewhat concerned that this mignt not be a long term strategy that can carry her against a tough GOP opponent and reassure swing voters that she can be a strong commander in chief.

Alan

Seriously, this turn on Jezebel has really hurt me- more than angered me. I thought I had found another "safe" site that I could go to for thought-provoking discussion and to sometimes disagree. I am really offended by the posts of yesterday and I now realize that THIS (fem) is still the only site I can count on.

I love you ladies.

like exelizabeth, I read and enjoy both feministing and jezebel for totally different reasons. I don't go there for hard hitting political commentary, and while Moe's post was rant-y and uncalled for, I'm not going to discount the whole site because of it. Politics can make many people (myself included) unreasonable crazy folks.

Anyway, having to read/hear/think about cry-gate 08 one more time will probably force me to flee the country.

like exelizabeth, I read and enjoy both feministing and jezebel for totally different reasons. I don't go there for hard hitting political commentary, and while Moe's post was rant-y and uncalled for, I'm not going to discount the whole site because of it. Politics can make many people (myself included) unreasonable crazy folks.

Anyway, having to read/hear/think about cry-gate 08 one more time will probably force me to flee the country.