Is anyone else totally creeped out by the idea of being "stuck together forever" with someone else? Ugh.

"Imagine if 2 clean pieces stuck together?"

Instead of your dirty, smelly trash can twat!

You are worthless if you have sex before straight marriage?
And I don't remember leaving pieces of my vagina all over the place, or in the rooms of partners I have been with. These people are clearly having sex incorrectly.

It may just be me, but I like the idea that whenever I touch someone (in a sexual or other sense) I take part of them with me and leave part of me with them. That ultimately sounds much more fulfilling than only be "stuck" with one person.

I can't spare the bandwidth to watch it again, so maybe someone who can watch more closely can answer: was this duct tape mostly stuck tape and transported to/by females?

I find it hilarious that the background music has lyrics that say
After all, we're only human/Always fighting what we're feeling

How deliciously appropriate. Also, that tape seemed to keep sticking pretty well. It didn't get limp or fall off or anything!

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, is there any evidence (other than, you know, "imagine if ...") that two virgins who marry have a lower divorce rate than two non-virgins? Since that's a pretty unusual occurrence I doubt that there's a lot of surveys or serious psychology/sociology evidence on the subject, but isn't this entire PSA/abstinence only strategy (because this isn't the first duct tape reference I've seen) based on conjecture?

The one couple I know who fit that criteria divorced within two years ... which I realize isn't the kind of serious evidence I'm demanding. But I guess my point is that there's no reason to believe even if you kept your duct tape clean (a totally horrifying metaphor to be sure) that you'd have a more successful relationship as a result.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think being affected by my relationships is a bad thing. It's how we grow as humans.

This message is emotionally dangerous on so many levels.

Oops, I meant criterion not criteria ... my Latin fails me again.

Remember, kids! Sex is vile, dirty and disgusting, so only do it with the person you love and plan to stay with forever!

I don't have sound on this computer, so it's unclear to me: is this one actually addressed to the guys? Certainly the bit about "leaving a little of yourself behind" is more applicable to men, right?

These people are really bad at metaphor.

The purpose of tape is to adhere one thing to another thing. Because of it's design, it doesn't work as well if you keep removing it and re-attaching it to stuff. Doing so reduces it's effectiveness.

Sex is not like tape. It doesn't become "less effective" if you do it more than once, if you do it with more than one person, or if you do it before you're married. In fact, you might even become *better* at sex the more you do it.

Sex is not like tape at all.

It may just be me, but I like the idea that whenever I touch someone (in a sexual or other sense) I take part of them with me and leave part of me with them.

This reminded me of a beautiful passage in J.D. Salinger's "Raise High the Roofbeams, Carpenter," in which the character Seymour Glass writes:

"I have scars on my hands from touching certain people. Once, in the park, when Franny was still in the carriage, I put my hand on the downy pate of her head and left it there too long. Another time, at Loew's Seventy-second Street, with Zooey during a spooky movie. He was about six or seven, and he went under the seat to avoid watching a scary scene. I put my hand on his head. Certain heads, certain colors and textures of human hair leave permanent marks on me. Other things, too. Charlotte once ran away from me, outside the studio, and I grabbed her dress to stop her, to keep her near me. A yellow cotton dress I loved because it was too long for her. I still have a lemon-yellow mark on the palm of my right hand. Oh, God, if I'm anything by a clinical name, I'm a kind of paranoiac in reverse. I suspect people of plotting to make me happy.'"

Not only is the comparison disgustingly reductive of female sexuality (because, of course, it's targeted only at women, most of the people handling the piece of tape are women, the, er, "clean vessels")--but it just shows you the pointlessness of making comparisons involving human sexuality.

If you want to make a point about human sexuality, talk about IT. Not about duct tape, or birds and bees. Name it and describe it, goddamn it. Out of simple respect towards the topic and all concerned.

As a high school senior, I can honestly say that this is exactly what abstinence ed is like. In my class, a guest speaker, Ms. Ng, from W8NG (yes, abstinence folks love them some bad puns), brought two boys to the front of the class, connected their arms with duct tape, explained that "this represents sex", ripped the tape off, and, as the boys were getting pissed off about their now hairless arms, explained that just as the tape is now less sticky, you can't love as strongly if you have sex before marriage. She then went on some rant about oxytocin, and how the metaphor is "scientific". To their credit, the entire class just laughed at her.
She also had one boy give another (it was always unintentionally homoerotic, which was great) a piece of candy to unwrap. She then instructed the boy to re-wrap the candy, and asked, "now, is this shoddily wrapped candy something you'd want to give to someone on your wedding night?"
So yeah, it really is this twisted.

With a little tweaking that could be a beautiful video.

When someone sticks to me I hope something is left behind, that they challenge or change me - they often do stick with me in spirit.

When I stick to someone I'd like to believe that I also leave something behind.

And two clean pieces of tape sticking together? That can be a bad situation. Sometimes when your sticking for the first time you can hold on too tight and get locked into something that's not good for you.

Not a bad moral, not a bad moral at all.

Oh, yea, and the second thing I learned is not to plaster my body against a garbage can.

Are there any other common life activities where inexperience supposedly makes you really really good at it?

We want babysitters, drivers and doctors to have experience, because it makes them better and more qualified, right? How is it, then, that increased sexual experience supposedly makes future sex so sucky?

Surely the entire metaphor is flawed - if a person is duct tape, and their future virginal spouse is also duct tape, then any another person will be duct-tape as well . So what then are the walls, garbage cans etc supposed to represent?
There are problems with both the medium and the message. If this is the confusing, conflicting 'information' that is being fed to young people instead of proper education, no wonder unwanted pregnancy, spread of STDs etc are becoming more an issue than ever.

Yep, I totally got this presentation in eighth grade. Of course, only the girls got it--the guys went outside and played freeze tag. That's Catholic school for ya.

Only the lady who did our presentation used packing tape. Way more effective, because it's clear and pure like a virgin's heart. @@

Uh... is it just me, or is the "choice" between "Having sex and forever damning yourself to Hell, not to mention being reduced to literal garbage" or "Staying abstinent and happy forever!" not really a choice at all? I mean when we are given only one safe option, and told lies about the other, how can we make informed, positive choices?

Oh, that's right, we can't. One of the many reasons I am glad to be canadian

I remember seeing a redneck humor book that claimed you could do anything you wanted with either duct tape or WD40. So if duct tape is for abstinence only, I guess WD40 would be for "anything goes." ;-)

What a fabulous way to promote self esteem for our youth today. My vagina is tape and if like tape it has been used more than once by more than one person I will have a nasty sticky-less vagina. I am sure that this will make our young girls feel great about their lives. It is a great message to be sending and giving teens. That to have had sex with more than one person you will be like a used piece of tape who no longer works and has nasty stuck all over it.

Wonderful.

Except my vagina is not tape or even remotely like tape. And I like the idea that I leave something of myself with the people that have been in my life like they have left me with something of themselves. Oh and my vagina works just fine and has no nasty stuck anywhere on it.

Did it bother anyone else that the two most often repeated images were of the tape being stuck to the trash can... and the fat girl? It wasn't stuck to other people - a couple walls, doors, the trash can... and the fat girl.

And what was up with her being comforted at the water fountain? I don't even know what the subtext is there, and I don't like it.

But then, I ran out of sticky long before I got married...

Because Flight of the Conchords is begging to be quoted here:

"Love is like a roll of tape
It's real good for making two things one
But just like that roll of tape
Love sometimes breaks off before you were done
Another way that love is similar to tape
That I've noticed
Is sometimes it's hard to see the end
You search on the roll
With your fingernail
Again and again
And again and again
And again."

But yeah, vaginas are not much like tape at all. Terrible metaphor.

Continuing with the flawed metaphor theme... if you stick two pieces of duct tape together, they can no longer serve the function for which they were created, at which point most people thrown them away.

First off, I have to disagree a bit about the vagina-not-tape thing. As an engineer, I absolutely love duct tape. It can make absolutely anything. If I ever needed to craft a replacement vagina, then I would use duct tape. It's durable, available in pink, can be repaired and maintained with more duct tape... (I would not, however, use it sticky-side-out [sticky-side-in?], can you imagine the poor guy's chafing? OUCH!)

The video looks like it was made by a teenager -- the quality is poor (and I was getting dizzy in some scenes), the setting is entirely in a school. So it's a little harsh to critique the video, because they're just repackaging silly messages they've been told in class. It was probably made for a class project -- we had to do dumb stuff like that back in abstinence-sex-ed, although our version was audio-only PSA's. (My friend's -- "Virginity isn't like your car keys -- if you lose it, you can't find it again" -- still makes me laugh.) However, I thoroughly disagree with them being taught and encouraged to repeat a message like this. It's flawed for reasons everyone above has already expounded on.

I'll also add that my spouse and I we were virgins when we met, shacked up for about five years, then got married and have somehow managed to muddle through another six. I do NOT attribute our relationship's strength to being sexually inept when we met, or indeed to any part of our sex life; there's a LOT more to surviving a relationship than sex! (e.g., negotiating cooking, negotiating laundry, negotiating putting toilet seat down so I don't fall in...)

Now, if we could get the duct tape vagina to also magically clean the dishes every night, we might be getting somewhere.

@ BabyPop: There's one guy at the beginning, but the large majority are girls. Moreover, only the fat girl has the tape actually stuck to her as she walks down the hall--another nice touch.

@ annajcook: Props for quoting my very favorite Salinger work.

The designers of this video must really like zooms, fades, and (particularly) wipes.

UCLAbodyimage: I think it's funny that you completely turned their metaphor around, and I totally agree with you.

Also, Januaries is right. If you're going to talk to teenagers about sexuality, talk to them about sexuality. The tape metaphor is too ridiculous and complicated.
Plus, had I been told something like this in high school, I would have been offended that I was being treated as if I couldn't understand what they were talking about.

sorry if this was mentioned...this video is almost as good as the "baby in a box" post last year :)

my favorite part is the "aspire to positive choices". Choices like acquiring knowledge? Applying that knowledge to experience? Coming to understand and be comforatable with your body and your emotions? Doing the latter, especially, is hard enough when you're a teenager without having gibbering fanatics constantly shouting at you to repress the dirty, dirty, nasty, nasty little thoughts you are always (always) having.

No, your vagina or penis is not duct tape, but does anyone remember this old anti-AIDS/STD message?

“When you have sex with someone, you are having sex with everyone they have had sex with, and everyone their partners have had sex with.� -C. Everett Koop, Former U.S. Surgeon General

Technically true, if someone is carrying any sort of STD, and why we have the same STDs today that have been around for centuries (like syphilis), in addition to new ones (like AIDS) supposedly from other regions of the world. Most people probably never thought it would happen to them, or mistakenly trusted their partners to be monogamous. Which is why I recommend barrier protection in addition to any other forms of contraception.

Watching this kind of shit literally makes me want to go out and fuck anything I can get my hands on. It triggers an uncontrollable urge to run around with my panties around my ankles humping shitloads of democrats, out of wedlock, using sex toys, with several forms of contraception acquired from Planned Parenthood, while having lots of amazing, messy, ejaculatory orgasms and screaming "HERE'S YOUR ABSTINENCE, BITCH!"

Kind of like the way Partnership for a Drug Free America commercials make me feel about smoking pot. Those things practically force me to get high.

God, I'm so glad my parents or school never even tried this abstinence bullshit with me. Being able to fuck and jerk off guilt free rules!

Also, this is not sexist, but an unfortunate medically proven fact: women, particularly young women (25 and younger, also the highest risk group for men) are especially prone to STDs, and likely to go without diagnosis because of their internal structure and mucous membranes. Men and women should be tested regularly to be treated for STDs and prevent spread to their partners.

Sexually transmitted diseases & women's health
National Women's Health Report, June, 2002
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NKT/is_3_24/ai_97185464

Symptoms of chlamydia may never show up at all in ***70% of infected women***, and pose serious risks to women wanting to become pregnant, and to babies. Again, testing for pregnant women is a good idea to prevent transmission to babies.

"In the United States, adolescent girls and young women are not being routinely screened for chlamydia, the most commonly reported sexually transmitted disease in the United States."

This is NOT sexist, and NOT slut shaming.

"As physicians, we need to dispel the stigma and bias that so often surround STDs," Dr. David E. Soper, professor of ob-gyn at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston said in a statement. "The reality is that STDs are diseases of humanity. Humans become infected doing what humans do."

"ccording [sic] to ACOG, a recent study by the CDC and the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality found that routine chlamydia screening is highly cost-effective, with the potential to prevent an estimated 60,000 cases of pelvic inflammatory disease, 8,000 cases of chronic pelvic pain, and 7,500 cases of infertility annually if screening guidelines are followed."

Women age 25 and younger should be aware of risk of STD: Chlamydia
http://www.ndri.com/news/women_age_25_and_younger_should_be_aware_of_risk_of_std_chlamydia-283.html

A MALE-

telling people (and aiming your message at girls and women in particular- let's face it" abstinence programs are religion-based and patriarchy-based) that their bodies are dirty and not giving the facts that you stated IS sexist and IS slut-shaming.

Hey A Male, great argument for comprehensive sex ed. Any frequent reader here knows that AbOnly programs not only fail to reduce the rate at which teens have sex, but AbPledges actually reduce the rate at which they protect themselves from STIs when they do have sex.

This reminds me of things I used to see at church youth group. And can I say that thinking of being with one person forever is creepy? I can't imagine doing one thing forever. Or eating one thing forever. Or watching one tv show/movie forever. Or reading the same book forever. And I certainly haven't met one person I want to spend 100% of my time with.

Did anybody else notice that the fat girl got the last piece of duct tape... from the girl comforting her by the water fountain?

So... if I'm seeing this right then basically what they're saying is, it's bad for you to leave duct tape on trash cans. It is okay, however, for you to leave your duct tape (if you're female) on your female friend who's off getting water.

Abstinence only, but if you can't hold out then it's okay for girls to give themselves away to other girls because that's not the same thing as giving yourself away to a dirty trashcan, which in this case must be a boy?

The metaphor's kind of junked up an extra notch if you think about it like this: The duct tape is Your Body.

Why the f**k would you want your _body_ stuck to another body _forever_? Unless, of course, we're equating a woman's power with her capacity for sex with men.

I would like point out that I am not "slut shaming" by pointing out a women and children's health issue, as recognized by women's health sites. Both men and women should be tested regularly, even if you have only one partner.

"The metaphor's kind of junked up an extra notch if you think about it like this: The duct tape is Your Body."

The message made clear they likened duct tape to bodies. I like to think of STDs as duct tape, which is why they persist centuries later. A piece of duct tape that is passed on, but continues with its original host, as a matter of fact.

"And can I say that thinking of being with one person forever is creepy? I can't imagine doing one thing forever."

Marriage, and lasting marriage, is not for everyone. I've been married for 11 years, but can't imagine staying married for another 40 or 50 years myself. We'll see. Can't imagine getting remarried if my wife leaves, either, because I wouldn't want to invest the same amount of time in someone else to grow together.

"And I certainly haven't met one person I want to spend 100% of my time with."

Marriage should not be taken lightly, even with the prevalence of divorce, and existence of no fault divorce. Which is why people have a life outside of a relationship like work, friends, hobbies and private time. My wife and I are at home together a maximum six hours a day, not including any overlapping sleep time, and not all that time is spent together. No time together at all if I work the late or night shift.

dckatiebug, I do know that Evangelical Christians have a HIGHER rate of divorce than do Atheists--I found this out in a pastoral care class in Divinity School. So, I don't know how many Evangelicals are virgins and Atheists are sexually experienced to compare (and perhaps the lower divorce rate among Atheists might be more attributable to equitable division of labor among partners than mind blowing sex, though the sex would help), but it might be interesting to see where the stat's play out.

peace

I quite liked the passivity involved here. "Don't let your tape be used," they admonish. Well, what if I want to use my tape? What if I make the conscious, informed decision to use my tape however I choose? What if I use my tape with someone who also has chosen to use his/her tape and we both are happier and better off for having done so? Is it so inconceivable that tape might want to be used? I mean, if we're playing with this lame metaphor, let's go whole hog. Sometimes tape just wants to be used!

As a 20-year-old woman who left the abstinence-only school system relatively recently, this video is nothing surprising to me. In high school, I was taught absolutely nothing about prevention of pregnancy or STI's, and I have only recently realized how lucky I was to have another place to turn.

My youth group leaders at church organized a sleepover for all of the high school students. It was THERE that I learned how to use a condom, how to obtain hormonal birth control, and basically how to have control over my own sexual and reproductive choices. When I see things like this video, I am so thankful that I had other resources besides my public education to turn to.

*blink* why in the world would you want two pieces of duct tape to stick to themselves?

I don't know about anyone else, but I start using four-lettered words when the tape I'm using sticks to itself... I don't know what I'd do if it stuck to itself *forever*.

I wonder if they realize that most ppl when noticing that their duct tape isn't so sticky anymore.... just go get a new piece of duct tape.

Of course, I didn't realize that duct tape was one of those limited-resources things we were supposed to recycle... or conserve.

Gives a whole new connotation to going green.

I grew up pretty religious (all the way up to high school). I have to say that I appreciated these kinds of messages (to some extent) because it was reinforcement of my decision not to have sex at that age. I grew up in LA and actually had a well balanced education (i.e. real sex ed), which I appreciated though it made me uncomfortable knowing that others didn't share my opinion about waiting. In high school, everyone hates being the dorky loser and virgins can be easy targets.
But...
The thing that is messed up about this kind of AbOnly message is the equating of dirtiness to female sexuality and the strange underlying opinion that your sexual experience/pleasure/viability/respectability/beauty/worth culminates when you lose your virginity. I still haven't forgiven my old religion for making me feel horrible for so long. (God, I could write a whole book on fucked up religious ideas and how they play out in real life. But then maybe most of us could.)

AMALE-

I am sorry if I wasn't clear. I was saying that what they did/said in the video is just that, not what YOU said. I think presenting facts in a non-judgmental way and providing other info w/o shaming young people is the only real way to reduce STD occurrences and pregnancies.

iscah
What's happening is that the girl who appears to be comforting the other is actually sticking the tape onto her back...and to me it looks like she's doing it w/o the girl's (in pink) knowledge. Which reminds me of so many "kick me" jokes.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa....

I DO NOT have sex with trash cans or other public school paraphernalia.

I love the fact that this is an extended critique of a video asignment from high school. I imagine this was made as a project for an AbOnly class and the creator was demonstrating every video transition and cut they could figure out how to do. The video is sooo atrocious!

I think the best thing to get 2 pieces of tape apart would be some silicone lube.

Actually, this is pretty typical. I've seen something like this at least three times at my school. For the past two years we as a collective student body have been stuck watching this gray haired crazy old lady telling us to wait for marriage, when she publically admits to not waiting herself. And a piece of tape is wrapped around a guy's arm and we're told that sex is damaging to us. Riight. By the way, Ms. Valenti, I enjoyed your book and I wish you would probe further into "WAIT" Training and debunk it once and for all.

All I can say is WTF? I am horrified to know that my HARD EARNED tax dollars are going toward teaching the youth of America their genitals are the same as fucking duct tape. my vagina is not duct tape, your penis is not duct tape. If they were, they would be grey and on a roll, and I wouldn't touch a grey sticky roll penis. ;)

The thought of teaching kids something as this instead of oh, say maybe, the FAR more useful metaphor of a gummibear in a soda to show how EASILY something can be slipped into a drink trick is terrifing to me. You want to protect your daughters from loosing their 'innocence and purity'? Teach them how to protect themselves from rape. This kind of message makes me sick. Absitnence only programs only prevent teens from getting the information we OWE them to help them protect themselves and become healthy adults.

I also reluctantly endured similar seminars that used the duct-tape metaphor in my public high school. I remember feeling quite disgusted with myself afterwards. It's only been a few years since, but I am happy to report that my feelings about this topic have changed greatly. It worries me that most of my classmates probably aren't so lucky.

The notion that an everlasting relationship between two virgins is what will stand the test of time is a crock of shit. I have grown and learned so much from the few relationships that I've had. Those experiences have helped me to learn about myself more than anything else yet in my life. This idea is just a manipulative message broadcasted by a group of people who know that perhaps only naivety and ignorance of the outside world can keep really keep two people together forever. I suppose it's easier when you don't know what you're missing.

I also really hate the implied message that boys will find sexually active girls as nasty sluts and all virgins as chaste good girls who are worth sticking to and marrying (since this video seems to be directed to females more than males). Stupid double standard. I always wondered... if it is okay (or understandable) for guys to have sex but not girls of the same age then who are these guys having sex with? Their teachers? Slutty college girls? The five whores in the school that are taking a hundred for the team? Give me a break... personally I don't think the word "whore" should even exist.

"My youth group leaders at church organized a sleepover for all of the high school students. It was THERE that I learned how to use a condom, how to obtain hormonal birth control, and basically how to have control over my own sexual and reproductive choices."

Wow.

I first learned the facts of life at nine by reading the sex ed section at the school library, and later my mother's Good Housekeeping and Redbook. Maybe also Ladies' Home Journal. Then we had health my sophomore year.

"I DO NOT have sex with trash cans or other public school paraphernalia."

I believe the video also showed the tape stuck on the sign at the restroom.I think of people knowingly or unknowingly carrying STDs as having germs. It doesn't mean they are bad people.

While abstinence only training, and actually expecting all teens to follow it is ridiculous, there is nothing wrong with abstinence in itself. I note that some posters are virgins. I wish "waiting" was not ridiculed, but the federally funded sex-ed.

Sex is not "damaging," and one does not "use up" their genitals or sexual vitality, but there are known risks to consider when sexually active. During our OB/GYN class, our instructors introduced us to some interesting research showing how women were sensitized to the proteins contained in semen from their first partner, increasing risk of reaction to the semen of subsequent partners. I do not recall the potentially damaging condition. It may have been uterine and cervical cancer. It does not seem to be "semen allergy." Again, unfortunately, problems that affect mainly women, though passed or caused by men. Also unfortunate for women is the fact there is no HPV test for men, according to the CDC. It is up to the women to be tested. It is not sexist or "slut shaming," just another unfortunate fact of women's health, like menstruation or pregnancy.

"Deciding not to use a condom can have a host of potentially negative side effects: including, scientists now say, aggravating cancer."

"Researchers have shown that semen contains a huge dose of hormones that boosts blood vessel growth, and that cancerous cells in a woman's uterus or cervix have a high level of receptors for these hormones. The combination could prove dangerous for women at high risk of getting cancer or those already with early-stage cancer, they say."

http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=2761

CDC sez about HPV:

"Approximately 20 million people are currently infected with HPV. At least 50 percent of sexually active men and women acquire genital HPV infection at some point in their lives."

Just one more reason to use barrier methods in addition to any other contraceptive methods, as well as having regular screenings and examinations.

BTW, here is just one result from a search on "semen allergy," which affects about 5% of women or 2% of couples. In the worst case, as with numerous other allergies, respiratory distress is a possibility. It may also be a significant cause of infertility.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/semen-allergy/AN01225

Interestingly enough, other sources indicate one effective treatment is "frequent sex" with that same partner, or medical application of "increasing amounts" of the partner's semen to the vagina.

Google Sponsored Links:

Semenax
Surprise your partner with a 500%
higher volume!

I can imagine. Another treatment is actual injections of the partner's semen.

I've seen way too many ads for abstinence at my old school. (my new school actually is trying comprehensive sex ed. :) Like the "worth waiting for" tshirts. Those are particularly bothering. It's a completely flat way of saying your self-worth is diminished the minute you have sex.

My favorite though has to be the video of the woman rattling off every std she knows of in under one minute, but never giving any info about their transmission or symptoms. It was something like "Sex is bad because you could get aidsherpesgonorrheahepatitischlamydia..."

Now, I'm a virgin and (obviously) don't mind the notion of abstaining if it's what feels right for the individual in question, but how does the mere fact of being virginal make a marriage more likely to work? Neither of you have had sex, so your marriage will last--your duct tape will stick together--forever? Huh? This should be banned if for nothing else due its deleterious IQ stunting effects!

Oh boy is this familiar. I went to a religious high school and, once a year, everyone in the high school had to gather in the chapel for a sex ed special. It was an old man who presented "10 reasons to wait." He used the duct tape on his own arm instead of sticking two boys together like someone else posted.

Another common metaphor, the petal-less rose, was also used. Every time I think of it I want a picture of a Frankenstein Flower, since I think that more accurately describes what's happening. Similar to the duct tape argument, actually, but more beautiful. Odd how they'll completely reverse their own argument when it suits their "sex makes you dirty and unusable" argument.

(First comment ever on here! Yay!)

The worst part, for me anyway, is that they told me stuff like this in Catholic School. Ugh, I am so embarrassed for my religion.

Oh, and now that I remember my original reason for posting a comment, the guy who used to give us our "just wait" speech said the reason you need to wait is......you won't believe how telling this is......because sex allows you to overlook things you may not like in a relationship. Yep! That is apparently how two clean pieces of duct tape can stick together forever. "I'm so glad to finally be having sex! I won't leave you even though you [insert abuse of your choice]." But, I guess, if you have sex with other people before you're married then the blinding properties of sex are dulled and you might actually start looking for someone who treats you well. *eyeroll*

Ditto to everything above...but...and maybe I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point, the vehemency with which the concept of monogamy is spat upon never ceases to amaze me. I have total respect for polyamorous people and other types of romantic/platonic/sexual relationships people want to form, so is it so much to ask that monogamy not be treated like it's a ridiculous choice? Some people want to only be with one person, and for some people it is much more doable than being with more than one person. It doesn't make them naive or stupid.

Clearly, it's not for everyone, and I've had more than one sexual partner before, but Mr. KMP and I are monogamous, and plan on staying that way until we die. I'm not remotely concerned that I'm missing out on something, and I'm not under any illusion that it's going to be super duper easy or that neither of us will ever be attracted to anyone else. But it's a valid choice, says nothing about our politics or attitudes about sex for other people, and I get tired of hearing about how people who only want to be with one person *forever* are stupid or weird or ridiculous or naive or lying to themselves or will cheat on their partners or be cheated on or regret it or end up breaking up anyway or blah blah blah.

We all get sick of being told that having lots of sexual partners means you're dirty or fucked up or will never find happiness, right? B/c generally, not true. So isn't it possible that some people are completely capable and perfectly happy having one sexual partner? Sexuality is so different from person to person. There are lots of people who don't ever want to have any sexual partners! If you don't want to be judged for having several, don't judge those who only have and want one.

/threadjack

I swear to god that when I was watching this video my thought process was exactly this: "ok, they're dropping bits of their body all over. Is this about leprosy? but -- wait -- if you take two perfectly good pieces of duct tape and stick them together, you ruin them forever. Imagine getting leprosy and becoming useless? What the fuck are they on about?" Maybe I'm just slow tonight, but I think that may be the worst metaphor I've ever enountered.

My vagina is not duct tape either - it's more like a post-it because it's only a little sticky in one spot. I guess I'm just lucky that I only plastered my post-it sticky strip onto a couple of doors/lockers/garbage cans/full-figured girls before I found the post-it I wanted to be stuck to for life.

When I was 16, my first serious boyfriend and I made the decision to have sex. We wanted to be safe, so I got birth control and he got a condom.

Then we both went out and bought rolls of duct tape, and stuck them to trash cans at school. I mean, it seemed cool at the time, but I thought something was missing.

I guess it was just confusing to me... He wore the condom, but we were both fully clothed just sticking our duct tape to the trash cans around school.

I've recently discovered that actual sex has nothing to do with duct tape and trash cans. Unless you're into that.

My mind is obviously filthy. For a second there I thought maybe they meant if you have all this sex on one day - you will need a lot of lubrication.

Duct tape? DUCT tape?!

"I have total respect for polyamorous people . . . "

Though no one else knows it, my wife and I have an open relationship. She is free to leave, or to find something I cannot offer from someone else. I had to learn this when we had trust issues at the very start of our marriage, because I can't stop her, anyway. I simply asked her not to surprise me. She has also given me express permission to get what I want from anyone including my classmates theoretically young enough to be my daughters. She being the opposite of me, said she never wants to find out about any of my affairs, because she would be offended.

I simply choose not to take her up on her offer because I respect my wife, would not want to spend years developing a meaningful relationship with anyone else, and quite frankly, I couldn't afford a girlfriend or lover. [I imagine it could be exciting. Since being married, women, particularly those about 15 years younger (or 10-15 years older), have strangely become attracted to me (romantically and otherwise), hanging around and giving me things. I wish women had paid that much attention to me when I was in high school or college.]

The whole idea behind this video peeves me out, but I think the concept that irks me the most is "what if this duct tape was your body" and then other people moving it from places to place. Like, you have absolutely no control of your body. Like you lose your virginity and somehow your body becomes the property of whomever walks by and grabs it. ick.

First, I agree with Erica B that this ad insults the greatness of duct tape by associating it with the reprehensible trash that is abstinence-only sex ed. I got NO sex ed as a kid, except for what I learned as a voracious reader of novels intended for older audiences (sci-fi can be shockingly raunchy sometimes). In retrospect, I think that's a big improvement on AbsOnly.

kissmypineapple, as a word of support, I'm also on the monogamy train, in the sense that at present I can't imagine wanting to be with anyone other than my spouse. And, like you, I'm very much also on the train of supporting all consenting adults in any kind of relationship they want to have. I just ended up happy in a very traditional (straight, monogamous) relationship model, which is funny to me, since I'm not a very traditional kind of gal, in a lot of other ways. Goes to show it takes all kinds, I guess, right?

OK, clarification: my current spouse and I plan to be together, until death do us part, as they say. And that will take work sometimes, because nothing worth having comes easily (except chocolate). I worded it ambiguously because life has a way of making hash out the best and most well-intentioned plans, and who knows where and who I will be in 20, 30, 50 years?

Honestly, I don't see what's so goddamn bad about leaving a small part of yourself with people you've slept with. Everyone I've been with helped me learn something I needed to learn, and those experiences HELP me in my current relationship, not take something away from it. Jesus tapdancing Christ, it's not like the only emotional attachment you form in your life is with your husband, so why should the only physical attachment you form be with him, too? Not that I ever plan on having a husband, of course.

ElectronBlue and KMP, I too am on the monogamy train. I can't imagine spending 100% of my time, or even 100% of my free time, with the same person for the rest of my life-- but what marriage is like that? No healthy ones, I'd wager.

"Abstinence only, but if you can't hold out then it's okay for girls to give themselves away to other girls because that's not the same thing as giving yourself away to a dirty trashcan, which in this case must be a boy?"

Scarlett, one of my boyfriend's friends is a Christian fundamentalist and she actually DOES believe this to be true. She told my boyfriend that she wants to have something to give to her husband on her wedding night, but the sex she's had with other women doesn't count as losing her virginity, so in her eyes, she's still a virgin.

i know this is wasn't they intended to say, but i think the idea that every person you interact with has a little piece of you, and you of them is really kind of beautiful; whether thats sexually or in conversation or even with the office politics you could do without. Those experiences shape us, they don't taint us. And if you're old enough to choose to have consensual sex (in whatever way you interpret that) then each partner can be special. Everyone I've interacted with is special, and it just so happens that the one(s) I interact with now are my very favorite and the pieces of ourselves that we exchange are an outstanding reason for being alive.

Nothing pisses me off more than the notion that sex takes away from your sense of self, from your identity. Virginity doesn't make the person.

Sex can enhance the sense of self far more than being a virgin can. I understand that some people have a very personal stake in their virginity, and that's their own perrogative, but I get a little peeved at the notion that my sexual activity somehow makes me less of a person.

I don't lose any of myself when I have sex, except a little bodily fluid, and I fid I learn alot about what makes people happy, about myself as a physical creature and about my partner.

Abstinence is not a matter of marital happiness later, as psychological studies have shown u, and it is not a matter of establishing your sense of self as a "good Christian." Anyone who's done their homework on the issue knows that that's a crock of sh*t concocted by conservative old men who are intimidated by a youth that has a different value structure. It's the same way Republicans opposed the free love institution in the '60s and religious groups have been doing the same thing throughout history.

Frankly, it's time for them to be quiet. I realize that's an unrealistic goal on my part, but this is such a load of horse-sh*t that I just can't stand it anymore.

Thanks for giving me a good place to rant, though I realize most of you already agree with me anyway.

My New Year's blogging resolution has been to point out just how much conservatives, "traditionalists," and all-round anti-feminists despise *men!* So what better place to point out that *if* they're proposing duct tape as a metaphor for virginity then WTF does the filthy, disgusting, slimy, disease-laden, virginity-sullying garbage can represent?

Weird huh? It's not that they

Happy New Year, Jessica!

figleaf

"Sex can enhance the sense of self far more than being a virgin can."

As part of a journey of self discovery, I agree with this. It allowed my wife and I to bond during our courtship period. It also allowed me to realize that my relationship with the previous woman I intended to marry in the US, would not work out. As an adult, I also regret not having more "fun" when I was younger.

"Scarlett, one of my boyfriend's friends is a Christian fundamentalist and she actually DOES believe this to be true. She told my boyfriend that she wants to have something to give to her husband on her wedding night, but the sex she's had with other women doesn't count as losing her virginity, so in her eyes, she's still a virgin."

THAT happens to be my problem with abstinence only education. Young people who think other than hetero, penile/vagina sex is "not" sex, and that people can thus "retain" their virginity by avoiding it, leading to or engaging in high risk behaviors such as intercourse without a condom. I am sure the young boyfriends do not regret having "only" fellatio or anal sex. What's in it for the girl other than damaged mucous membranes? Approval? *spit*

Posted by: A maleSince being married, women, particularly those about 15 years younger (or 10-15 years older), have strangely become attracted to me (romantically and otherwise), hanging around and giving me things. I wish women had paid that much attention to me when I was in high school or college."

I had an acquaintance once tell me how women flirted with him more once he was married. He thought the wedding band served as some kind of aphrodisiac for women.

I feel compelled to break the bad news to you, just like I did with him - these women don't want to have an affair with you. They just see you as "safe" - in the same way flirting with a gay friend is "safe". It's possible there's the rare woman who's more turned on by sleeping with someone else's husband, or has some fetish for much older men. More likely, it's that you're now seen as asexual. They feel they can chat you up without you getting "the wrong idea". In fact, if you started propositioning these women, you'd get a lot of indignant "But...you're married...I thought we were just kidding around..." Then freak to their friends about how some married guy hit on them. Or, for the young ones - "He seemed like a nice old guy. How could he have thought that I was serious?" Really - as an actual female, though no longer a very young one, in my experience chatting up a married and/or older co-worker or other acquaintance was just a way to get some male attention and interaction without fearing the consequences of having to deal with the fallout of their sexual expectations.

So, no, you're not suddenly a hot property because you're old and married. You're suddenly more popular because many young women feel they can relax around you without any real sexual tension developing.

It's not very pretty, I guess. But it's usually done naively enough. Because they trust you to realize it's all innocent flirtation.

i think the idea that every person you interact with has a little piece of you, and you of them is really kind of beautiful

Heh. I guess it depends on your exes. Personally, the idea that I have a piece of all my exes stuck to me makes me want to go take a hot shower and scrub my skin. It's not that I regret having sex--it's that I regret having sex with many of them, in much the same way as I regret wasting my time hanging out with them. Alas for the poor judgment of my youth...

"I had an acquaintance once tell me how women flirted with him more once he was married. He thought the wedding band served as some kind of aphrodisiac for women."

I've had the older instructors tell me women believe a married man is "safe" like I won't be jumping 20 year old nurses' bones.

"In fact, if you started propositioning these women,"

Well, there's one in particular. The four night trip to the women and children's hospital was rather interesting, as was graduation and Christmas.

I totally sympathize with the monogamy people; I tend not to get offended because I feel like people aren't attacking monogamy--dating one person at a time--but the more extreme idea of only dating one person EVER. Which is what the "virginity-until-marriage-and-divorce is-out-of-the-question" position adds up to.

"Religion is like a saw. You can use it to chop up wood, but it might cut you if you're not careful. Also, you have to be careful not to let it get rained on, or it will get covered in rust."

"Excuse me, but that metaphor made exactly no sense."

"Hey, it made as much sense as you comparing my body to duct tape."

AnnaSoror: I don't know if you meant dating as a dating relationship that includes sex, or just dating in general. Because I had a youth counselor (back in my pre-atheist days) who literally told our youth group that dating ANYONE who wasn't your future spouse was like cheating on your future spouse. So, that first date had better be with the person you are going to marry. I also knew someone who was saving their first kiss for their husband. Evangelical Christianity can be a little wacky.

I, too, like the thought of leaving a piece of myself with each person I touch and taking a small part of them away, even the bad ones. I feel like all the relationships I've had (sexual and non-) make me who I am. Which reminds me of a poem I've always loved by Starhawk, one which I though I'd share.

My love, you are a river fed by many streams
I bless all who have shaped you
The lovers who delights still dance patterns on your back
Those who carved your channels deeper, broader, wider
Whitewater and backwater lovers,
Swamp lovers, sun-warmed estuary lovers
Lovers with surface tension
Lovers like boulders,
Like ice forming and breaking
Lovers that fill and spill with the tides
I bless those who have taught you
and those who have pleased you
and those who have hurt you,
All those who have made you who you are

Doesn't that seem like a better way to look at sex than 'if you let others use you, you'll become a nasty, trashy, useless strip of duct tape'?

I don't want my future lovers blessing those who have hurt me. I have enough problems; my lover had better be on my side.

Not PC: when I was in high school, I dubbed the then popular Paul Young song, "the leper love song." That name stuck for some time.

Everytime You Go Away (Paul Young)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M9HrFCVlWg

Ah, memories.

I seriously did not understand this clip. The connection between duct tape and sexual abstinence is completely lost on me, never heard of it at all. But that may be a cultural thing, abstinence sex-ed doesn't really exist in Germany (luckily!).

This analogy, aside from its ridiculous dearth of applicability, is amusing since it reminds me of my Unitarian sex-ex classes where they *gasp* actually taught us everything a person needs to know about sexuality (& a bit on how to fight related bigotry - the horror!) ... since we have a penchant for making stuff out of ducktape, we used it to sculpt giant model genitals of the other sex - the guy's tape-vulva wasn't sticky at all, despite the obvious adhesive nature of the real thing.

@ UCLAbodyimage, Kathryn and anyone else who mentioned it - Agreed, it's terribly lovely the idea of carrying around a bit of those you romantically mingle with - the writer Diane Ackerman (easily inspired by Starhawk ... I adore that poem you shared, tiphane) put it beautifully, how we usually experience our body & our self as someone separate, impermeable from the world around us, yet on the rare ocasions when we enter another's body "as lover, doctor... shaman, fetus", at the molecular level there really aren't any clear boundaries, and our bodies most likely retain the cells of all our lovers, of our mother, etc. (And that's merely just in the physical sense, nevermind how we're shaped psychologically.) The spin this video put on it makes that lovely concept seem Puritanically creepy, though, despite its lacking an ounce of sense.

OH. MY. GOD.
This is my high school! I know these people. And I'm ashamed. What an ugly, misguided metaphor. But it's not really surprising, considering the teacher who assigned this. She puts Ann Coulter to shame.