I actually have to say the Daring Book for Girls is quite a disappointment. I was flipping through it and wasn't impressed at all when I compared it to the activities in the boy book. Even though it encourages girls to be "daring", it does so by teaching them how to do cartwheels or make brownies. Boys get to build forts and learn how to start fires with sticks (or something equally boy scout-y).

I was actually typing up a feminist book gift guide myself... and one or two of these books was on my list. And your books were on it too :)

Thanks for posting "The Daring Book For Girls". I bought it for my sis and asked for it myself (and I'm a 26 year old mom of two girls),and over at Jezebel they were making me feel a bit ashamed! Their arguement was the same as Liz's-- that the boys version has 'cooler', more 'dangerous' stuff. But I really liked the lists of female leaders and scientists, and all the fun 'how-to' features.

It's to bad they didn't combine both these books into one and call it the Dangerous Book for Kids or something similar. But personally, I was irritated when the Boys version came out-- until I saw the Girls version, and felt that it was just as cool as the boys.

Courtney - I actually ordered P.G.S.D. along with the Beauty Myth this Xmas. Looking forward to it!

BUT, the link in the original post is wrong. As of 12:46pm EST, it takes you to the book "Women's Bodies" at amazon.com, not P.G.S.D.

I bought the Daring Book for Girls (ostensibly for my daughter, but as she's only 5 months old I doubt she'll be reading it any time soon!) and I found it to be quite nice. Yes, there were some things in it that could be considered less than daring, like making brownies, but I did like the parts about female leaders, negotiating a salary, and real princesses (who, it turns out, are actually people with interests other than chasing down men and singing songs with cute forest animals. Who'd a thunk it?) And if one does find it lacking in areas, there's nothing that says you can't go out and buy The Dangerous Book for Boys for your daughter, too! Then they'll learn twice as much, and also learn that just because something says "for boys," it doesn't make it so.

Oh, and I LOVE Flannery O'Connor.

Gah, noooOOooo!

According to 'Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom', I only have Endometriosis because I Rejected My Femininity.

What a load of crap. I have Endometriosis because the lining of my uterus detached and adhered to multiple organs in my abdominal cavity, not because I didn't buy a push-up bra or think girly enough thoughts.

Wow, I totally didn't read feminism into the Dispossessed, just the delicacy of a utopian society of any type.

Cool to see the LeGuin book recommended. My dad was an anthropology professor, and he used that book (also LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, which is even more directly related to gender issues) in his classes.

Interesting to read the comments about the books for girls and boys. I rolled my eyes the other day (I've been waiting for an opportunity to mention this since you guys don't have open threads...this will work I think) when looking at some Christmas colouring books for my son and daughter. Two opposing pages showed what "Doug" and "Lisa" got for Christmas:

Doug got a football.

Lisa got a hairbrush and mirror.

Good grief...thought we were decades past that kind of thing. I mean, my son and daughter do tend to want different kinds of toys, and I don't force them to have gender neutral interests; but to put blatant examples like that in a colouring book is egregious.

Alan

I agree with Liz, I saw it in a store with high hopes and I also compared it to the boys book... it definitely is not as progressive as it could be... I think the majority of the activities were typical femininity-inducing ones... How about Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy - where the main character is an amazing brilliant young girl who refuses to be held down by society!? An excellent feminist read for everyone!

I agree with Liz, I saw it in a store with high hopes and I also compared it to the boys book... it definitely is not as progressive as it could be... I think the majority of the activities were typical femininity-inducing ones... How about Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy - where the main character is an amazing brilliant young girl who refuses to be held down by society!? An excellent feminist read for everyone!

I am really surprised that the DBFG is on this list.
Just the fact that there's a "for boys" version and a "for girls" version is enough to give me pause. If it were ONE book "for kids" that combined the girls and boys books, I'd be all for it. But the gender stereotyping is not cool.

BUNNY: "How about Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy - where the main character is an amazing brilliant young girl who refuses to be held down by society!? An excellent feminist read for everyone!"

The Golden Compass was awesome, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm looking forward to reading the sequels! Lyra kicks some serious ass.

I'm completetly against the book, "A Daring Book for Girls" being added on the list. Its demeaning that they would label it 'daring' instead of dangerous. Ask yourself, what is more edgy; daring or dangerous? Its no wonder the title of the book is less edgy than the boys 'dangerous' book as it was made for girls by authors who want to uphold gender stereotypes. The author of the book, "A Dangerous Book for Boys" has outdated gender stereotypes and wrote the book to reaquaint boys with their supposedly hard-wired nature with the theory being that society has discouraged boys from being. The book for girls was just written as an afterthought and does not include the same activities as the boys one as its existence is to further conform to age-old gender myths.

SARAHMC: "I am really surprised that the DBFG is on this list.
Just the fact that there's a "for boys" version and a "for girls" version is enough to give me pause. If it were ONE book "for kids" that combined the girls and boys books, I'd be all for it. But the gender stereotyping is not cool."

I don't know, I'm not so sure about that. Girls specifically get 1000s of messages targeted to them that they should be playing with EZ bake ovens and pretending to do dishes and laundry with their Barbie Playsets.

A book specifically targeted to girls saying "Look at all this other cool stuff you can do too! This stuff is for girls too!" seems pretty kick-ass. Sort of the toy equivalent to Girls in Science summer programs and such.

I also have some problems with Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom. I think there are good things about the book, especially emphasizing that mental and emotional health affect physical health, and that things like stress, unhappiness, etc can hurt your body physically. But I really didn't like that it seemed to take all medical and scientific cause away from illness, and seemed to blame women for their cancer and other sicknesses. For example, a woman who supposedly had fibroids and pain because she cheated on her husband. Illness is not your fault, and cancer is not a punishment for mistakes!

I also have some problems with Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom. I think there are good things about the book, especially emphasizing that mental and emotional health affect physical health, and that things like stress, unhappiness, etc can hurt your body physically. But I really didn't like that it seemed to take all medical and scientific cause away from illness, and seemed to blame women for their cancer and other sicknesses. For example, a woman who supposedly had fibroids and pain because she cheated on her husband. Illness is not your fault, and cancer is not a punishment for mistakes!

I think there should have been a book written for kids of both genders with a wide encompassing variety of activities. These boys book series just reinforce sexism, and I bet more girls actually own the boys version than the girls. Its really disgusting that the authors of the boys series would be such infantile jerks to cast these types of gender roles onto young girls. Imagine being a girl today and still being told by society that the things you innately love to do are 'boys things.' Its bad enough people on this website had to deal with crap like that when they were young, todays girls should not have to have such a sucker punch to their lives and identity. I think the only way these books could have been written is if a wide gap had been left in society by parents that were ambivalent about gender myths and their negative impact upon girls. It put todays girls in a vulnerable situation and the result ends up being another sexist blow to girls in the next generation. What an ass the authors are, and just look at how many parents ate the books up.

But they're not saying "This stuff is for girls too!" They're saying "This stuff is for boys. So if you want to do this stuff, buy the DBFB."
Are you at all familiar with the content of the books? Because the two books are totally different.

We bought DBFG for my husbands niece, after I looked through it and liked what I saw. Yes there are some typical "girly" things in there (and the "how to put your hair up with a pencil" will be worthless for the niece as it's geared only for white girl's hair) but they're offset by other things you don't normally find in "books for girls." For instance a section on math tricks, women scientists, Boudicca, modern women leaders, how to change a tire, the periodic table, and sayings/expressions in Spanish and French. Not to mention the "essential gear" section which includes:
Swiss army knife, Bandana, Rope and twine, Journal and pencil, Hairband, flashlight, bungee cord, compass, safety pins, duct tape, deck of cards and a good book. I'm sorry but that's pretty gender neutral right there.

Also, I don't think Liz was reading the contents page very carefully because "How to start a campfire" is in the girl's book too.

I think it's awesome some women besides me and others here were annoyed with the Boys book and decided to write one for girls, and I think they did a good job.

Because of the discussion here I went to look at the table of contents for the boys book. I'm sorry, but I think the girls book is WAY better and far more interesting than that. There was only a handful of things in it that I thought were especially cool.

The Dispossessed? Really? That book was assigned to me in a Social Science class. I never read it but a year after I graduated I felt sorry for it and started reading it. Then, now this is rare, I stopped reading it. IT IS A TOTAL SNORE. I read a LOT of science fiction so I guess I just expect scifi to be interesting. And while I liked the sound of a woman scifi writer, the Dispossessed is a horrible example of it. Boring novels shouldn't be read no matter how socially/philosophically eye-opening they are.

"Just the fact that there's a "for boys" version and a "for girls" version is enough to give me pause. If it were ONE book "for kids" that combined the girls and boys books, I'd be all for it. But the gender stereotyping is not cool."

word. The books should be combined and called "the dangerous book for boys and girls" because do we really need another thing that seperates genders and makes us feel seperate from each other?

I don't think the DBFG is perfect, but I think that it is pretty damn cool, and a great response to the idea of a "dangerous" book for boys in a super commercialized world. Sure, it would be great if there was one book for both, and if it was filled with non-gender specific activities, but the reality is that the DBFB hit the market first (and hit big) and these feminist authors figured out a creative way to answer that. Maybe I'm getting old and easy, but I'm a big fan of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater these days.
As far as WBWW, I'm interested in the critique and will take a second look, but I just know SO SO SO many women whose relationships to their own bodies and health has been changed by reading that book.
Thanks for hollerin' back everybody. Feel free to add your favorite gift books too!

I had a chance to flip through both DBFB and DBFG the other day, and I'm torn. On the one hand, there is some pretty interesting stuff in DBFG, but on the other hand there are some rather lame sections.

Also, the DBFB was red and had gold lettering on the cover, but the DBFG was slightly pastel (I can't recall the exact color) and its title was covered in sparkles.

Why shouldnt boys learn about Boudicca?

"Sure it would be great if there was one book for both, and it was filled with non-gender specific activities"

Both the girls and boys version are filled with non-gendered activities, however, the books infere the idea that some activities appeal to boys and others for girls by creating two seperate versions. Why seperate, and inhibit childhood expression to conform to stereotypes.I dont think the "DBFG" author created the book as a response to the boys version but was already scheduled to be released after the boys book. They assumed, with the Iggulden brothers gender myths being at the helm of the books launch that it would be more important to place the boys book first, under the assumption that boys are innately more active than girls and the boys activities would appeal to boys far greater than girls which would make more money. I think the author of both books were careful not to claim that "DBFG" was a girls version of "DBFB" because questions would arise about gender biases and stereotypes as activities within the boys book are not within the girls version. Iggulden wanted to reinforce gender assumptions, but didnt want to get caught doing it. They wanted to cast the impression that the girls version was a response to the boys version to try and quell any dissention. The girls version was just a way to add complacecny to the audience. Why is it that the two books werent released at the same time? Why not call it the "Dangerous Book for Girls" or "The Extreme Book for Girls?" Instead they chose a more passive verb than 'dangerous' to describe its contents.

There are also some wonderful books on women's sexuality out there... one of our favorites is called I Love Female Orgasm but there are also classics like Betty Dodson's Sex for One and many MANY others! Give the gift of good lovin' this year! :)

And if you're looking for sex tips, funny stories, news, and all other things sexuality-related, check out our blog. Hope to see you soon!

Happy Humping!
-Eden

"but the DBFG was slightly pastel (I can't recall the exact color) and its title was covered in sparkles."

It's a light blue, with, yes sparkly letters.

What's wrong with sparkles?

"Whats wrong with sparkles"

Do you mean that as a joke? Does the boys version have sparkles?

According to Jezebel:

Buchanan and Peskowitz acknowledge that their book is different from the Boys book, beginning with the title. "'Dangerous,'" Peskowitz says, "has a different connotation for girls. You think of 13-year-olds going off in cars with boys." Notes Hingston: "If girls were buying this book for themselves, I'd be worried. I'd feel that 50 years of rabble-rousing and bouncing off glass ceilings has been in vain." Instead, she realizes, "Well-meaning adults will hand it to girls" and the books will "wind up as relics, sitting on dusty shelves."

I bought my fifteen year old sister Full Frontal Feminism. I did wonder if she was too young, but then I realized I would have wanted that book at her age. I like to think I know her maturity level, too, because we're close. Anyway, the DBFG did kind of tick me off, too, because I felt it was a rip off from the DBFB.

"And while I liked the sound of a woman scifi writer, the Dispossessed is a horrible example of it."

It's one of the most critically acclaimed science fiction novels of all time and was one of the first SF novels to receive a great deal of positive attention in traditional literary circles. It's also one of my favorite novels ever, and I'm not a particularly voracious reader of SF. Different strokes, I suppose, although I think calling it "horrible" is a bit much.

Feminism's by no means a major focus of the novel, but it is among its stronger underpinnings, and just as a utopian/dystopian fable and an exploration of anarchist philosophy and practice it's absolutely worth a read, though of course there's a great deal more to it than that. Le Guin's an amazing writer and a really remarkable person.

There's actually quite a lot of good feminist science fiction and fantasy these days, thanks to early pioneers like Le Guin. Check out the Tiptree Award winners, for example, which you'll find listed on the Tiptree website: http://www.tiptree.org. The Tiptree is "an annual literary prize for science fiction or fantasy that expands or explores our understanding of gender." This year's winners -- Cathrynne Valente's The Orphan's Tale: In the Night Garden and Shelley Jackson's Half Life -- are terrific. There's also information on feminist science fiction and fantasy at http://feministsf.org.

On another subject entirely, I recommend The Guerrilla Girls' Bedside Companion to the History of Western Art as a good Christmas gift. And I've just bought four copies of Full Frontal Feminism to give to four teenagers on my gift list here in Britain. Great book!

As a reader of a different kind of sci-fi, it took me a while to get used to UKL's style (also, I had to switch from translation to original).

But now both TLHoD and The Dispossessed are among my favorite books: I read them again on a regular basis, and have done so for about 20 years (I _am_ old!).

I appreciate both the feminist outlook and the pro-abstract science viewpoint: in fact, I find The Dispossessed to contain a moving account of a scientist who works not in a lab but at a desk (like I do, though not as successfully as Shevek).

In her preface to TLHoD, UKL herself compares the search for inspiration of a writer to that of a scientist, and says that "The God speaks in numbers as well as in words". Believe it or not, I found that very inspiring. Sorry for the geekness.

I'm so glad that you put The Daring Book For Girls on the list! I was already planning on buying my little bro The Dangerous Book For Boys, so when I read that there was a badass book for girls I was delighted. Now they have both and they can swap projects and ideas from both books.

Having been completely depressed at the hype surrounding the Dangerous Book for Boys, I was excited to see the Daring Book for Girls!

I had caught an interview on NPR with one of the authors of the DBFB, Conn Iggulden, and his attitude was so demeaning to girls, I actually tried to get on air to give him a piece of my mind. His whole thing was that boys (all boys) love this stuff by nature, and our society isn't' providing them the tools, knowledge or time to let "boys be boys." You know, like they used to be in the "good old days." He acknowledged that SOME girls might enjoy these things, but, by and large, building forts and being rambunctious in general = boy.

I basically see the DBFG as a way to make up for any damage caused by the DBFB. I've briefly flipped through both of them - they seem pretty comparable to me. It's just too bad the boy one had to come out first. A Dangerous Book for Boys and Girls would have been ideal.

Even so, one of my friends is having a baby girl any day now, and I'm thinking of getting her the DBFG for future enjoyment!

PS-

If anyone feels the need to get their blood boiling on the Friday morning, check out this thread from the DBFB Amazon page. Title : "Why do feminists need to bash this book?"

Click my name for the link.

First things first: Liz, you can't have actually read the DBFG, or you'd know that in fact, it does contain sections on starting fires and building forts (not to mention changing tires, science projects, playing basketball, and any number of activities that are not considered traditional girly activities.) True, some of the other activities are old-fashioned and stereotypically seen as only feminine. So the hell what? I'm personally proud of being able to bake a homemade cake AND make my own household repairs. Along the same lines, my goal in raising my daughter has been to see to it that she is well-rounded and capable in every aspect of life, and to give her exposure to everything, with the freedom to pick and choose what she most enjoys for herself. The same will be true for any future son of mine, and any other children of either gender who are part of my life.

Now, I agree that in an ideal world, there would be a version marketed to both girls and boys. But for the time being, there's not, and I'm personally having a lot of fun with the DBFG. For those of you who aren't, why not write one for both genders yourself, instead of just complaining? Or give both the DBFG and the DBFB to the kids in your life? Or buy one or the other and use a Sharpie marker to write in the word "Kids" in the title? The basic concept-- teaching kids fun, useful skills instead of just planting them in front of the television-- is good, even if the execution is flawed. As someone else suggested, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Great post, Cici.

J. Helene,
Yeah, I was arguing back and forth on alot of those forums. The guys on those forums are huge assholes. I'm known as being a 'man-hating' feminist by some prick who goes by the name of Jon, among just about everyone else. I dropped posting on the forums after Jon accused me of 'seeing' things and implying elements that werent in a purity ball segment I found on YouTube where one of the women on the video stresses the importance for women to remain chaste. He claimed that abstinence only wasnt majoritively aimed at girls. I told him to watch the video and he sarted making crap up and saying I 'saw' that in their because I'm a 'reactive' feminist that hates men. I wrote alot of profanities and left. He now claims and writes to anyone that enters the forum that I'm a man-hating feminist to entice people to his side.

Gopher,

I see you are not on the other thread and hope I am not a part of it. I wanted to apologize for what I said, and can see from your other posts that you are perfectly reasonable. I can see why you would hate being accused of bias. I'm sorry.