Well, I've been to a lot of concerts where they limit alcohol sales, so I don't think it'd spark a revolution or anything. I am glad to see that management finds the current atmosphere unacceptable. That place sounds like a powder keg.

The Jets' owner and/or coach could solicit a player or two to make public comments against the harrassment or even do a public service announcement to be played on the scoreboard screen (do they have one?). Many of the mobsters could be shamed out of it by appeal to their manhood (the noble part of it). Real men don't harrass women who could be friends' daughters or wives, etc.

Also, take pictures of the guys hanging out in that area and publish them in the newspaper.

"Real men don't harass women who could be friends' daughters or wives, etc."

I think your intentions are good, SixtiesLiberal, but that particular statement smacks of "don't mess with another man's property." That's not the "noble" aspect of manhood that I would choose, myself.

Yeah, real men don't harass women period.

I like sixtiesliberals idea. Get the players to take a stand against it. Kick men out who are doing the harassing. Make it a zero-tolerance thing. Get men and women who oppose to boycott if management does nothing.

"Real men don't harass women who could be friends' daughters or wives, etc."

I also find this statement disgusting and I am generally offended by the term "real men," but I do think sixties liberal has a point. As much as I am disgusted, I think it would be effective. Mainly the part about getting actual players to tell men not to harass women, preferably using different words. As for the alcohol sales, I don't think that really makes a difference.

Fixing sexist sports culture is a difficult prospect. What about Olympic athletes? Maybe I'm just seeing the TV coverage, but there seems to be a lot less sexist crap going on at the Olympics. Someone could look into that.

Anyway, I think the best way to cure the problem at Giants Stadium would be to throw the guys out. If they won't leave the area, make them leave the stadium. If they continue to be a problem, or show up week after week at Gate D, take their names, and rescind their season tickets (Giants Stadium is ALL season tickets.) A guy might not mind being tossed out early from a game that's not going well anyway, but they will not want to risk their season tickets. The waiting list is very long.

"Real men..."

The target audience is not likely made up of feminist men. The message needs to appeal to them and needs to come from sources they respect. You may find the impulse to protect women in their lives paternalistic, but it exists even in men prone to sexual harassment.

I remember when this story came out, there were lots of soundbites of women saying stuff like, "Leave it be! It's good clean fun!" etc. What can be done about that sort of attitude?

I agree with bluepencils. They have the power to throw people out. So do it. If people throw or spit at referees at games, they throw them out. That is a big motivator to cutting down on the behavior if they are serious about it. You can bet that if the taunters dangled nooses in from of certain races, they'd be thrown out. This tolerance of the gauntlet is not okay.

"...women saying stuff like 'Leave it be! It's good clean fun!'"

Sweet Mother of God, introduce them to the joys of feminism, and gently explain why being sexually harassed and eventually assaulted is not "good clean fun"?

Philadelphia's old football stadium used to have a holding cell and a district judge in the basement somewhere to deal with drunk and disorderlies (not sure if that's the case anymore). Arresting the guys on the spot and putting them through the legal hassles could be a powerful deterrent.

I must say I have an issue with the idea of a "sexist sports culture."

These idiots are sexists. And they like sports. It doesn't mean the two are related in the least.

If you get enough drunken louts in one spot this behavior could occur. At a sporting event. Or at a concert. Or at a company retreat. Blame the morons, not sports.

I attend plenty of sporting events and I drink more than my fair share and if I saw this behavior my drunken male friends and I would do our best to put a stop to it.

DrkEyedCajn--That, to me, is like saying, "Well just introduce these (harrassing, attacking) men to feminism, and explain to them why this sort of stuff isn't good clean fun." It's easier said than done. I know, because I was one of those women when I was younger--a lot of how I saw myself was wrapped up in how men saw me, and godforbid they not think I'm "fun" or "sexy."

Cedar, I agree that it's easier said than done. I'm sorry, but there is no easy answer to convincing men AND women that having women objectify themselves for men is NOT EMPOWERING for anyone involved. Of course it's an uphill battle, what with all the conflicting messages from the media on what is or is not "empowering" to women.

And SixtiesLiberal, I just can't get behind the idea of trading one brand of misogynistic asshattery (sexual harassment) for another (paternalism/property ownership).

"Blame the morons, not sports."

Weeeeeelllll, I kinda disagree. You're totally correct that these behaviors happen anywhere and everywhere. That's not in dispute.

But

Pro-sports are all about men and the notion of male superiority (yes, that includes over other men). I mean football is a bunch of goons cracking into each other and falling down a lot while women in skimpy costumes, who work damn hard but get paid diddly squat, are relegated to the sidelines.

Ever seen those commercials about men getting into fights over another questioning their "fanhood" - while, yes, it is an exceedingly obvious play on "manhood", it works because the machismo that is so prevalent in pro-sports.

Let's not forget too that the MSM cares more about Michael Vick horrendously abusing dogs than they've ever cared about what pro-athletes do to their wives/girlfriends or other women, etc.

Pro-sports are *all* about machismo, posturing, beating and humiliating the opponent. So, I'm not at all surprised that this translates into yet more bullshit for women. After all, sports is a "guy thing" (stereotypically).

Perhaps it is indoctrinated in their youth by their parents and media, which creates the expectation later on that this kind of behavior is acceptabel for males. I've seen parents encourage all sorts of sexist behavior under the assumption that its natural for males to behave this way.

Excellent observation, Betty Boondoggle. I'm really appalled at how little the NFL cheerleaders are paid during the season. I learned of this from the Charlotte Observer.

As for bluepencils, I agree. And we may not know it, but they have already thrown an even 150 people (including two more men on Sunday) out of Giants Stadium this year during Jets' home games. But I am saddened to say that there will be some innocent people that will have their season tickets revoked over the Gate DD incident.

I created a facebook group about this a couple of weeks ago called "We Are Outraged About the Jets Halftime Ritual of Harassment"

Please feel free to join, I will keep you posted on developments

http://newpaltz.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5926104627

*V

And SixtiesLiberal, I just can't get behind the idea of trading one brand of misogynistic asshattery (sexual harassment) for another (paternalism/property ownership).

Golly, SixtiesLiberal, clearly that's the only alternative. How about the athletes themselves reminding male fans that female fans deserve respect too? Or is that not "manly" enough for the knuckle-draggers?

I am an avid sports fan and have been to many sports events across the country and have never seen or heard of anything like this! Once when I was 7mo pregnant at Yankee Stadium I had my BoSox hat knocked off twice by two different people (one guy, one girl), and I had to do some fast talking one year wearing my Giants hat at the Ebbitt in DC (Hey, it's not my fault the 'skins stink up the joint!), but never anything like this. This would not happen at Foxboro, b/c any trouble making results in instant reaction from staduim security, up to an including loss of season tix, jail, and permanent ban from Pats games. This is squarely on Jets' management and Meadowlands security, and ticket holders and fans should complain loudly, both to the Jets and to the NFL.

SixtiesLiberal: Were you trying to say that these guys wouldn't be acting this way if it was their mother/sister/wife/etc, so why would you do it to someone else's mother/sister/wife? Like, trying to put it in a framework that someone who completely doesn't understand sexism would be able to visualize?

Yes, nerdalert, thank you. I didn't mean to evoke the women -as-property theme but to appeal to a type of golden-rule thinking-- Don't do to unknown women what you wouldn't want done to women you care about.

Let's not forget too that the MSM cares more about Michael Vick horrendously abusing dogs than they've ever cared about what pro-athletes do to their wives/girlfriends or other women, etc.

When a pro athlete electrocutes and hangs his wife for underperformance, I'll be just as outraged as I am about Michael Vick. But for now, let's not lessen the heinous things Vick did just to prove a point.

The whole scene at football games gets out of hand. My dad saw someone purposely run their car into someone else (someone not it a car) at Fed Ex Field in DC.

But yeah this yelling at the women is just men letting women know they don't belong at a football game as a fan. If they're going to go, they better just be in skimpy outfits for the men's enjoyment. Hiding under the cover of "fandom", I didn't read anything about them yelling at the male fans to "drop their pants." Disgusting.

I hadn't heard about this until now and am quite suprised. My family owns season tickets to the Giants and I always find that the men there are downright galant towards women. Perhaps I was right in beleiving Giants is way superior to the Jets :)

"Real men don't harrass women who could be friends' daughters or wives, etc."

Likewise, real men who fight at games fight other fighters...

http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28544

"...There is an unwritten code of conduct (who the hell would actually sit down and write one?!) around scrapping at the footy. There are basically three 'rules' that are adhered to by most firms:

"i) Don't attack 'shirters' or 'scarfers'. These are the fans that turn up in the team shirts or scarves. Hoolies are usually quite distinctly dressed, often in a lot of designer clobber from labels such as Stone Island, One True Saxon, Prada, Hugo Boss, Aquascutum, Burberry (although Burberry has become a bit of a running joke now - at one time when you were scrapping it was like fighting a giant, angry table cloth, it was like dogshit - i.e. it got everywhere), G-Star, North Face, Duck & Cover, Penguin by Munsingwear, Paul Smith and so on. Plus you can usually sense some kind of atmosphere if you come across another firm of hoolies..."

"When a pro athlete electrocutes and hangs his wife for underperformance, I'll be just as outraged as I am about Michael Vick. But for now, let's not lessen the heinous things Vick did just to prove a point."

Oh please. I did not lessen the horrible abuse heap upon those poor animals. So please don't pretend the horrible abuse of females in a pro-athletes social sphere isn't all that bad in comparison.

Everyone is right on about a need for education. Also sport has been part of the American Male Preserve for so long we just associate it with sexism. This doesn't have to be the case. In Chinese culture women have been competing equally alongside of women for hundreds of years. In fact the women's teams have been more successful and hence more respected in Chinese culture. Part of the problem with American professional sports is that they are not just sports. American professional sport is elite-entertainment and it is this elite-entertainment that promotes inequality and sexism.
As an aside anyone who enjoys slamming into 260 pound men with pads probably has limited cognitive capacity and would not understand the nuisances of feminism.

As an aside anyone who enjoys slamming into 260 pound men with pads probably has limited cognitive capacity and would not understand the nuisances of feminism.

You obviously don't understand the nuances of the game. It's not the slamming into 260 pounders that's enjoyable, it's avoiding slamming into them (and enabling your teammate to avoid it) that's enjoyable, at least for the offensive team.

It's fine if you don't like that game or don't like any sports (or is it the "helmeted" sports you don't like). Just don't be an elitist ass and assume people who like sports competition are dumb.

"Real men don't harass women who could be friends' daughters or wives, etc."

I think it's important to remember that real men don't harass *anybody.*

However I also do not object to this quote, and I'm kind of surprised at the vehemence with which some other commenters do. Why does referring to men's daughters or wives have to imply ownership? Referring to a woman's son or husband would not likely raise any eyebrows.

I think looking at women as something other than sexual objects is one activity that might truly help men to consider their objectivity of women--even sexy women.

Of course you could also refer to any number of other aspects of women besides their status as wives or daughters (though those might hit home more with the target audience of course). Ad campaigns could feature various women of all ages and occupations--in suits behind a "boss' desk", pushing strollers, weeding gardens, playing soccer--and run the tagline "Would you harass this person?" Then you could show a woman in a jets jersey at the stadium and follow it up with "Then why would you harass this one?" I'd say seeing that before half time might cool off some of these a-holes.

Or better yet, show those same women--the athlete, employer, mother, grandmother, etc--in the Jets jerseys with a tagline that says "Then don't." (in response to the earlier tagline "would you harass this woman?").