I dunno. I've never noticed it, my girlfriend has never noticed it. Her theory was that guys might be more brusque about ordering their coffee, while girls might be more relaxed. Saying just the coffee name and waiting expectantly isn't very conversational, but maybe it gets you a faster coffee?

I dunno. I've never noticed a difference in coffee preparation time or really even a difference in how people order, so I would tend to say that the study doesn't really relate to NYC coffee shops, at least.

I've worked at Starbucks for over two years now, and I see no difference in how people order coffee or what coffee they order that can be divided across gendered lines. Women are curt just as often as men, and men love themselves some whipped cream and breve mint mochas.

Well this is just riduculous.

* Grabs popcorn, waits for the gratuitous coffee ordering horror stories *

The only time I've noticed a difference is when I've gone for coffee at night and dealt with an all male serving crew. They are often so engrossed in talking with each other that they serve more slowly. I assumed they served everyone more slowly, of course, and silently hoped they would work on their multi-tasking skills.

This study is interesting because they seem to have accounted for all of the rational reasons that might contribute for a difference and we're just left with a result that is completely irrational. I can't imagine why this would be the case.

Is it possible that male servers resent women who order frou frou drinks in a way that they don't resent men? That they associate women with more work, and so when a woman comes in they get pokey in response, whereas a man who creates just as much work doesn't trigger the passive-aggressive response?

20 seconds seems like a rounding error, and I'm not convinced they have, in fact, accounted for all the variables mentioned. Be interesting to see if this can be replicated and all the possibilities controlled for.

sgzax - plausible...

But come on. I just went through a drive through run by a woman who took forever and complained the entire time, about the customers' orders.

Sexism in serving coffee? Rediculous... And anyone saying all male servers tend to take longer than women is just as riduculous.

Here is an eye opener - no sexism, our service industry sucks, period.

I have had some frustration with many different people in the service industry, it is true.

Tip though... just saying something is ridiculous doesn't make it true. I agree with NTodd. It would be interesting to see replication of this study and further exploration. Given that this study seems to have been constructed in a very thoughtful way, out of hand dismissal of the results is anti-intellectual.

I don't even believe the Slate story - because the research seems really shoddy.

I've trained TONS of baristas, both male and female, when I was the super for an espresso cafe. Most of the guys were harder to train, and they'd get flustered more easily. Once they were fully trained they got competitive about how great they were compared to everyone else. It was annoying. And untrue in what was a VERY high volume cafe. I had to bail out more guys than women when it came to multi-tasking.

Most of the women did better with busier situations and more varied drink orders, but seemed to take a longer time to lose their fear of the espresso machine. Once they were trained I never had to worry about them again.

Also, everyone tips the same. It has little to nothing to do with the barista unless he or she is very bad or very rude.

I haven't noticed it, but I also haven't considered to pay attention to see if I notice it. But overall, regardless, the study makes sense to me. In a range of areas men, especially white men, are taken more seriously. I imagine this sort of treatment spans all industries to some degree.

Those of you who are dismissing the findings with "I don't notice it" - how would you expect to? Do you show up in drag half the time you order coffee?

The sample size is incredibly low here, with strong potential for skew (with only 8 shops, all in the same geographical location, at most the study can claim to be representative of that geographical location), so I'm not quite sure how seriously to take the result, but assuming that the results are both valid and representative of a larger population, it is an interesting finding, though I think the authors run into a lot of trouble when they attempt to extrapolate motive with so little data to work from.

More interesting to me would be to cross-check the results against what happens with a mostly female staff and male customers, to see if there is an increase in serving time there, indicating a delay from (predominantly heterosexual) cultural interaction, and also a survey to find out how many women *feel* that they are less well served in coffeeshops than men, vs how many men feel less well served.

I was disappointed by this. I completely thought it was going to look into if women were being discriminated against in the workplace environment of the coffee shop, not if women were discriminated against while ordering. My boyfriend always orders my coffee for me, so I haven't experienced this first hand.

I went and tracked down the research the article cites and I looked at the methodology.

I think there's way too many variables that can distort the findings (not the least of which the research ONLY covered coffeeshops in Boston, and only looked at two days). I question the sample size and the design of the study. There was a lot of room for error they way they did it. (Research assistants were recording drink order, looks, race, and approximate age before starting the clock and then they only did this at coffee shops that they could do this unobserved, and even only for two days and only in Boston.)

There's a potential finding (if it was followed up with concurring experiments) but I wouldn't place too much on the original report. More like "interesting, but needs more testing."

As a feminist who worked in coffeeshops for 2+ years now, and will probably do it for a lot longer, I definitely had to grapple with my own inherent sexism. It was very very easy to call the "skinny-grande-latte-with NO FOAM OH MY GOD IS THAT FOAM I SAID NO FOAM" woman a bitch and be all sorts of snide when making her drink. Men very rarely ordered the kind of drinks that we all hated making, and (god, I hate saying this, but here it is) they tipped better.
I've actually noticed that my male friends in the business who identify as feminist are exponentially more polite to the difficult female customers than myself and my fellow female feminist coworkers would be. I don't know what that says about us, but there is a struggle.

As a NO FOAM enthusiast I have to say that I make that part of my order as a protective measure against servers who give me three inches of foam rather than heat up some more damned soy milk.

When you're already ordering a small drink it can be frustrating to be denied half of it by foam-happy baristas.

I do tip well though.

"and (god, I hate saying this, but here it is) they tipped better. "

Hmm. To echo what someone said at Feministe, might this be a self-fullfiling prophecy. You freely admit to treating female customers worse than you treat men and are somehow surprised they don't tip better?

Tips are based on the quality of service. If you freely admit to giving sucky service, you can pretty much expect a crappy tip - if any at all.

I usually have to wait a tiny bit longer than most because I always order soy and sometimes -- depending on the coffee shop -- they don't have the soy handy and it takes a moment longer to get it.

I still think the article is ridiculous, though.

I lived in Boston for 5 years and never noticed this phenomenon. Which doesn't mean it doesn't happen, BUT, it does mean that I never had any complaints about my experiences in coffee shops.

So when I think about that, compared to, say, FGM, I get annoyed that this is the research that Slate brings to the table. Raising hell over waiting for a latte certainly doesn't help feminism kick down the stereotype of being a knit-picky, privileged, upper/middle-class club.

Eh, I make my own coffee. Now there's a dying art form.

"Raising hell over waiting for a latte certainly doesn't help feminism kick down the stereotype of being a knit-picky, privileged, upper/middle-class club."

This study does not constitute 'raising hell over waiting for a latte.' Talking about this study does not constitute 'raising hell over waiting for a latte.' I personally think feminism is set back more by people who try to steer the conversation away from the subject at hadn and on to how silly women are to be talking about subjects x or y because subject z is so much worse.

Or maybe we're all just shallow bitches because we don't spend every fucking minute thinking about female genital mutilation. Thanks!

Hmmmm... I'm a student in Boston, currently a 4th year resident, and I've never noticed any kind of gender discrimination at coffee shops. I would have to agree with the other comments about the study and sample being fundamentally flawed. But it is an interesting concept, and I'll definitely be on the lookout from now on. I usually thought coffee shops abided to the order in which you well.. order rule, unless of course you get something super simple. Like plain coffee.

I've honestly never noticed problems at a coffee shop.
I DO feel discriminated against as a young woman at banks, pharmacies, anything dealing with automobiles (dealers, parts store, tow truck, gas station, etc), and video game stores the most out of any retail/business outlet.

I worked coffee for four years and agree with Keri that women were more likely to flip out if their drinks were not just right, but I would prefer that to some of the guys who would come in (I swear) just because they could flirt and we had to be friendly back to them. Those guys really pissed me off. They would do just enough to make you feel uncomfortable without crossing the line to the point where you could refuse to serve them.
Personally, I've never felt that my service was slower when I was a customer (although I'm female), but then- I don't think I would notice 20 seconds anyway.

...I would prefer that to some of the guys who would come in (I swear) just because they could flirt and we had to be friendly back to them. Those guys really pissed me off. They would do just enough to make you feel uncomfortable without crossing the line to the point where you could refuse to serve them.

isfa, I couldn't have put that better myself. I'm a secretary, and this happens to me ALL THE TIME. I hate (hate hate hate hate) having to smile and be polite and essentially go along with it because of the nature of my position.

I think if there is anything going on here, it has to be completely subconscious, as in, when a male barista sees a female customer he thinks of her as less threatening, and therefore less likely to make a fuss if he slows down a bit, but this thought process is not conscious, but rather a result of internalized ideas about women. So if he relaxes his speed, it's not intentional, it's just a symptom of the fact that he doesn't take women as seriously as men.

As for the study itself -- I don't know from experience if these numbers hold true or not; I have never ordered coffee as a man. But twenty seconds would be a noticeable difference, if I ever managed convincing drag.

Is it better if someone is dismissive of me unintentionally as opposed to being intentionally disrespectful? Methinks not.

this study makes me pretty skeptical too. i've worked in a coffee shop for three years, and i know that there are gender (and race, and age) factors to be talked about, but this just doesn't ring true to my experience.

as a female barista, what i notice most is the bullshit you get as a young female in the service industry--men of all ages and races find it appropriate to hit on me, often just knocking against the border of lewd, and i'm often uncomfortable. i was shocked when i first went to work in the service industry at all the 'baby'-ing and 'honey'-ing that still goes on.

this happens to a lot of my fellow female workers as well. we all have the perception that it has much less to do with any sort of random pattern of attraction, and a hell of a lot more to do with the fact that we're women who have to smile when we get their coffee.

one more thing i'd put in--men get frou frou drinks about as often as women in many places. i still don't understand why that myth goes on, when i watch our businessmen saunter off with their pink strawberry frappes...

Burn them all to the ground. The streets will flow with the grounds of the unbelievers.

I don't work at a coffee shop but I am a cashier, and I tend to cash out men a lot more quickly than women. For one thing, I try to hurry up and get a lot of the men over and done with before they try to flirt with me, stare at my boobs, or make a condescending remark. Since I don't feel threatened by most of the women customers (and some of the men), I'm more relaxed, and slower, but not in a bad way. And then there are certain asshole customers of both genders for whom I purposely slow down and act braindead.

Oh and there are a couple comments on here complaining about how the service industry sucks- get over it.You only have to experience crappy service for 5 minutes, but the employee has to put up with people like you for 8 hours, and not for much money either.
I think retail work should be mandatory for everyone for a certain amount of time.

I dunno about this. I order a LOT of coffee at different places (NOT Starbucks) and I don't feel I've ever been treated any different. However, I don't treat the staff like my personal punching bags either. And I tip.

A twenty-second average isn't something that most people are going to notice, especially if they're waiting for a drink with a lot of stuff. "Hey, they took thirty seconds longer doing my froufy drink than that guy's slightly different froufy drink." I think what's more interesting is what this may say about the way men are treated everywhere, or perhaps in other aspects of customer service (like the bank). If we can't get equal service for a simple cup of coffee....

hellotampon, a nice thought but I doubt it would solve anything. I suspect it would result in a lot of "Well, when I was a server..." from the snooty types and a lot of assault charges leveled at people like me, who are temperamentally deeply unsuited for retail.

"only have to experience crappy service for 5 minutes, but the employee has to put up with people like you for 8 hours, and not for much money either."

In reality that's more like 5 minutes several times a day, every day, for one's entire lifetime.

and I assume "people like you" means all people who expect even a modicum of civility, respect or just plain old service from those employed to do exactly that. The horror!

I don't make much money either but somehow I don't use that as an excuse for being crap at my job - which while not being in the literal "service industry" is still a service orientated job.

"I think retail work should be mandatory for everyone for a certain amount of time."

I know my time in retail has made me both more emphatetic to the stress that type of job entails and less lenient of bad service. If I could do it and not suck at it while still hating the job, so can they.

"and I assume "people like you" means all people who expect even a modicum of civility, respect or just plain old service from those employed to do exactly that. The horror!"

There is a difference between expecting to be rung up and sent off with a have-a-nice-day and expecting to have your balls licked. A lot of people seem to think that their money is in exchange for a lot more than the merchandise.