That's sick. Throw them in jail so that the next pack of predators knows that serious consequences would arise if they are caught.

I don't agree that jail is the answer to everything.
Especially with young teenagers that are bound to remain criminals and even reoffend when they are released.

This is in the above link: "The program was very successful in protecting the community, changing sexual offenders' attitudes and behaviour and ensuring they did not reoffend"

That's the most important part, to protect other women from these crimes. What use is it to just stick them into jail and then have them reoffend?

I guess that's just the american way of looking at things.

"The maximum penalty for the offences is three years in youth detention."

The most you can get for sexually assaulting, physically assaulting, and filming and distributing pornographic video of a minor is three years? 16 and 17 year old boys are old enough to understand what they did was wrong, and I sincerely doubt 9 months of rehab will prevent them from further harming/degrading women. Though, I don't think three years in prison would do much either.

I'd like to know more details about that rehab program.

I agree with Zwillingsmama. Their crime is obviously terrible, but making an effort to rehabilitate them is more likely to improve their behavior than sticking them in a cell with a bunch of thugs.

Just another daily reminder, ladies, that they hate us.

Eight teens film themselves raping and assaulting an (also) underaged girl, distribute it like a fucking trophy and someone actually asks: "What use is it to just stick them into jail and then have them reoffend?"

Why it is an either/or choice? Can't they be DESERVEDLY locked up and receive this treatment? Why should there be NO punishment for such a vile, evil crime?

I also agree that putting juveniles in jail is very problematic. This crime was horrible but rehabilitation programs in other developed countries tend to be much better funded than our own. I don't think incarcerating these youth will make them any less likely to re-offend. Like Shiftercat says we don't know enough about the program and would probably all have different opinions if we did, but I don't think that from this article we can really say that the offenders are going free or that their punishment is not appropriate. It is tempting to act out of vengeance and anger when so many of us know exactly what this kind of victimization feels like, but we should always endeavor to choose punishment that makes sexual assault less likely to occur in the future. It may very well be that rehabilitation is that choice.

Maybe I'm having an unusually rough day at work, but this story makes me want to shove those kids' faces in dog shit and then beat the living hell out of them. No, jail doesn't do anyone any good but I doubt rehabilitation will "correct" them either. I'm sorry but what they need is a serious, severe ass-kicking. And I bet the parents are staunchly defending them, huh? If any son of mine ever did something like that I'd be so ashamed I'd kill myself.

" but we should always endeavor to choose punishment that makes sexual assault less likely to occur in the future."

Yes, of course, the goal is to reduce and prevent such and similar crimes in the future.

Asking how this will be accomplished by allowing those who commit such and similar crimes to walk away with just a little mandatory therapy is comprised of more than a revenge fantasy.

And I bet the parents are staunchly defending them, huh?

Actually, according to earlier articles, the parents were the ones who turned them in.

To be fair, they are also on probation which is very typical for first time juvenile offenders. That means if they commit any other crimes while on supervised release they will likely serve some time. I suppose it comes down to if you believe, or if the evidence supports, the notion that jail sentences limit future crime. I don't have good numbers on that.

Sarah - it's not you alone. Ass-kicking is lightweight compared to what I've heard others say they'd prefer done to these eight pigs.

But as for extra-judicial punishment, that's a different story. They definitely deserve an ass kicking.

Hopefully it's electroshock therapy.

Betty,

Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, surrounding young offenders with thugs encourages them to bond with and adopt the lifestyles of those thugs. Making them go through a year of therapy may help them bond with human beings instead, and _not_ do this kind of thing (or the smaller, if no less cruel, common variations for which they are less likely to be caught) later in life.

I also have yet to see any evidence that harsh prison sentences have any deterrent effect whatsoever in this demographic. You really do get an either/or choice here: vengeance, or correction.

To me, correction is one of the major supporting pillars of any functioning system of justice. Vengeance is not.

My major concern with the article as listed is that there appears to be no component of restitution, which I think is the other major pillar of criminal justice. It's good that the offenders will end up in a high success rate rehab program, but someone had best be paying the victim for her own therapy, medical issues, and effects of trauma on her future. Absent that, there was in fact a miscarriage of justice here. I'm not very familiar with the Australian legal system, however, and it is possible that a civil case may still be pending.

Why IS it either/or? Boys who find themselves capable of acts like this need to be removed from society completely unless and until they are completely rehabilitated. Can you imagine being 17 years old, have THAT happen to you, the film distributed around your school and among your peers for shits and grins, then have to see THOSE SAME BOYS everywhere you go? Can you imagine at all what she must be feeling? If that were my son, I would have him committed and tested for serious psychological problems. How big a step is it from setting a girl on fire, pissing on her and raping her while filming and distributing it to brutal serial sexual crimes and murder? Why are we always and forever looking back and saying 'should've' instead of thinking forward and protecting our girls and women?

I agree that jail would not do them much good, but at this point I don't really care to do them many favors. There's already so many reasons why victims of sexual crimes don't come forward to name and help prosecute their attackers, I think this sentance only reinforces the belief that the legal system is not going to protect us. I don't think the sentance is an adequate response to what this girl endured. What's done is done though, and I just hope that she is able to move on with her life as best she can.

Zed - the restitution part is about the only part I can get on board with.

Simply put, I don't give a rat's ass about the rapists. I know this tends to make me unpopular in progressive circles. (I am the definition of the 'bleeding heart progressive/liberal' in all other areas except crime).

I do care deeply about correction and prevention. But without punishment this speaks volumes about what victims of brutal vile assaults can expect from life afterward. As someone else pointed out, what about the victim? How is she to be "corrected" while knowing that those who did this to her are walking around free? That what they did to her didn't even warrant a light prison sentence?

I don't care if these little pigs go to therapy and come out perfect little boys. What *might* happen in the future does not (or rather should not) preclude them from receiving punishment they deserve.

That said, the restitution thing is a wonderful idea.

I'm 16 now, and it absolutely terrifies me that this happens in my age group. I see this and I feel so terrible for this girl, and then i think, "could this happen to me? could I be destroyed like that by boys I see everyday in school, and then not get justice for it?"

How must she feel, after already being tortured by those monsters, and then having the courts basically tell her that what they did to her isn’t wrong, as long as they don’t do it again?

I want to cry. I want to be a super hero and go around and fix all this wrong that just screams at me from injustices like this. I'm usually quite eloquent and I cant even form a sentence to sum up why this is so horrible. I guess it just doesn’t need to be summed up. It speaks for itself.

>

While I understand the desire to get revenge, to be violent and harsh to these young men, I struggle so much with statement like Sarah's and the one above. The idea that ass-kicking and violence and dehumanization would somehow fix anything here, or even the imagination of such things, seems problematic to me. I understand the inclination to want to get at them, but I would like to suggest that violence and harshness only begets more violence and harshness - real, imagined, or blogged about. I would hope that we would want these men to be rehabilitated (if possible) AND receive punishment for their crimes, but I would hope in a humane way that honors their inherent worth and dignity - no matter what their crimes - which they clearly have failed to honor in others. Although it might sound trite or naive, I do believe that we need to respect the humanity of our worst enemies.

Not to put words into Zed's mouth, but I think that most of us who are suggesting that prison may not be the answer are not doing it out of concern for the welfare of the perpetrators but out of concern for the women they encounter later in life. If these kids were to spend 3 years in a detention facility, surrounded by people who, for all we know, might applaud this behavior, it seems to me that they'd be more likely to continue their abuse of women than if they were actually to get some treatment.

I think there's an argument to be made for committing them a live-in rehabilitation clinic, basically a hospital, though, both for the girl's sanity and to keep them away from society until they are capable of behaving like humans.

I, too, am not in favor of punitive justice, but I agree that there should be some restitution.

Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, surrounding young offenders with thugs encourages them to bond with and adopt the lifestyles of those thugs.

They gangraped a teen, set her hair on fire and urinated on her. Then they distributed a video of the attack. Guess what? They ARE thugs.

"Cunt the Video"??? That video of the gang rape those little boys made just made my blood shoot above 212 degrees!

Here is what I would do to those boys: throw them in a pit with lions.

elizabeth199: Out of curiosity (I am not judging you, I promise, my earlier comment was hyperbolic) what SHOULD we do to reform rapists?

Actually, everyone here-- what do you think would be the ideal way to handle/punish/reform violent rapists? I actually think that while incarceration or some other physical prevention is necessary, there should be therapy too, so that when they are released they hopefully have overcome their need to control others. But I don't know if that would even work, and I'm curious to see what other people here believe is the proper response.

Hmm, I attempted to include the statement by Betty Boondoggle (which is what I meant by "the one above" but it didn't show up. Apologies.

Laurelyn, you sound very eloquent (and intelligent) to me.

And everyone, I never said a good asskicking would be the perfect punishment for this crime. I was expressing my anger and my feeling that they DO indeed deserve to feel the same pain they inflicted on that girl. That is what they DESERVE. That is not what we should do to punish them. I don't know what we should do to punish them.
Cases like this make me re-think my stance on the death penalty.

Basiorana, I'm not sure what I think we should do. I suppose, as you suggested, some form of jail and therapy. I like the idea of jails as places where people get treatment, yet, also don't have a fun time. It should be hard, unfun, something people want to avoid (a deterrent) yet should involve intensive therapy, particularly for sex offenders. I don't know enough about therapy to know what is effective...

I think Zed makes a really good point.

I can also understand the very visceral reactions from Sarah.

Anyways, I don't think that is unreasonable to want more from the justice system than it seems to be giving in this situation. 9 months of therapy? 9 months of therapy is going to adequately address deep seated violent tendencies? Will that really make women safer? In 9 months how will this girl feel? Even an ounce safer? I doubt it. It seems to me that the judge expressed a level of sympathy towards the boys that he didn't express towards their victim. His decisions affect her and her future just as much as it does the boys who are being senteced. And any case that seems to be favoring rapists over victims makes me sick.

They need rehab, but more than 9 months. And that girl needs a lot more than that.

They gangraped a teen, set her hair on fire and urinated on her. Then they distributed a video of the attack. Guess what? They ARE thugs.

So we should lock them in a box with other thugs and tell them they'll never be accepted by anybody else so they might as well continue what they're doing? That hardly seems helpful.

Elizabeth199 - Since its these eight young rapists who have comitted actual crimes, and Sarah simply vented some complicated feelings on the matter, how about we don't conflate the two. She wasn't saying she will actually get revenge. She is a woman who, upon feeling despodent and presumably helpless to fix the situation, vented.

androidqueen - Agreed. The most important things now are to ensure the victim has the resources to rebuild her life and to ensure these eight rapists don't do it again. Rehab and therapy are good things. However, preventing them for harming other women is easily attained by not allowing them out of prision. Again, I understand opinions such as these make me unpopular. To me, committ the crime? Do the time. And for especially horrible crimes such as this, I fail to see the reason in allowing them another go at life on the outside. They were old enough to know what they were doing was both illegal and immoral. They knew how to meter out the abuse and how to spread it around to make her humilation and assault complete and eternal. Let them rot in jail til kingdom comes.

Of course, were the lives of women and girls valued to the degree of males lives, this wouldn't be an issue.

Only 8 of the boys were charged with rape - there were 11 in the attack. One girl set upon by 11 thugs who raped her and set her hair on fire, filmed it, and distributed it to the entire community.

Yeah, therapy is probably fair in that case.

Yeah right.

We're overpopulated as is, why not let these pieces of crap fall off a cliff?

“Actually, everyone here-- what do you think would be the ideal way to handle/punish/reform violent rapists?�

Here is my solution: I am going to start a vigilante justice squad. Anyone here wants to join me? I am absolutely not after correction, only “elimination�. Though they are gonna have to pay before being “eliminated�. Rubbing their face in dog shit sounds really appealing to me. I have other ideas too, but I I don’t want to get too graphic.

“I would like to suggest that violence and harshness only begets more violence and harshness - real, imagined, or blogged about.�
Really? If I imagine violence, while sitting on my ass, it begets more violence? Who knew?

the boys should be locked up if for no other reason than to protect their victim while she tries to heal.

as well they should be locked up for their own protection until passions die down. i am having a hard time restraining myself from shearing off a few dicks, so i can imagine there are people in their own community who are ready to do the same.

also, why do we have juvenile detention at all if it's just a place for thugs to recruit thugs? can't these a-holes be incarcerated somewhere full-time while undergoing intensive therapeutic treatment?

Let them rot in jail til kingdom comes.

Betty Boondoggle, interestingly, I might be more inclined to agree if there were a long jail sentence. As it is, the maximum sentence is 3 years, and, seeing how quickly they'd be out again, it just seems to make more sense to me to make an effort to make them realize how horrific their actions were.

"So we should lock them in a box with other thugs and tell them they'll never be accepted by anybody else so they might as well continue what they're doing? That hardly seems helpful."

You're right. What really REALLY matters here are the boys and their feelings.

You're right. What really REALLY matters here are the boys and their feelings.

Okay, now that's really twisting my words. I never said anything about their "feelings." If they think the only people who will accept them are ones who expect them to continue treating women like trash, they will continue to treat women like trash.

Holy crap, only NINE MONTHS of therapy? I've been in therapy five times that long, and I've still got issues. I can't imagine how well any shrink could whittle away at the violent, deep-seeded misogynistic rage in that amount of time!

"I might be more inclined to agree if there were a long jail sentence. "

Well, that's rather the point, isn't it. Were there actual justice, there would be longer sentences. Notice I did not say, "let them rot in jail until three years is up".

But, the victim was just a female and after all we have the lives of eight precious boys to think about. I mean, they have futures! They have lives to live! They can't be expected to pay for committing crimes against some girl!

(for the sake of clarification, I am not suggesting this last bit is what you, Androidqueen, thinks. I am remarking on the sad state of "justice" for women in a patriarchy)

i am having a hard time restraining myself from shearing off a few dicks

And how.

Like I said, I'm sorry for using harsh language & graphically describing the violence I'd like to do to those boys. I KNOW we can't allow vigilante justice. But talking about the sorts of revenge they deserve while not literally advocating it is OKAY. Fuck them. Seriously. I would not bat an eyelash if someone were to wipe them all off the face of the planet right now. It is about fucking time the public got upset by the prevalence of rape and other crimes against women and girls.

I can't imagine how the young woman must feel. If it were me I would have had to leave the community and I wonder whether I would ever have fully recovered. The rage I would feel at the injustice might be over-powering.

An enormous injustice has been perpetrated here. These young men were found guilty of violent crimes against that woman. They should have been removed from the community. In the interest of society I agree that it would be better if they were sent to an institution that focuses on rehabilitation, but if one isn't available that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be taken away.

I believe that it's better to demonstrate to them that heinous transgression will be result in a long loss of freedom than demonstrate to them that they are far more important than the women they abuse. This decision is a blank check for all of them to continue on their current life paths. I'm horrified.

Wow. Alot of people here must be pro death penalty.
That's scary.
Just think, what do most sex offenders do when they get out of jail? They rape a woman. Therapy is really needed ESPECIALLY with young teenagers where there's still a high chance of "fixing" them.
Please don't forget, the main goal here is to not let this happen again. And if their program has been proven to work, why not?