Give them credit. No other show produces parody of this quality.

clever, feministing, very clever - because, clearly, if she doesn't know the the shape of the earth, she's not a feminist; clearly, feminists are only smart women.

Jesus christ.

The most telling, interesting aspect of this clip, to me, is that it is obvious that she knows the shape of the earth. She's just willing to suspend everything she knows in order to defend an untenable position. If that isn't a perfect illustration of religious conservatism at work I don't know what is.

Joe... I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Was that your intention?

Joe: missed the point entirely. She said she's "never thought about it... I'll tell you what I've thought about 'how am I going to feed my child, how am I going to take care of my family." Ergo, Jessica's comment. Open the ears, my friend. It's as if I were to say"I hadn't thought about if gravity is really there, because I gotta get daughter diapers." Makes. No. Sense.

@sgzax: I don't think it's obvious she knows the shape of the earth- I think it's obvious she's confused that the bible says it isn't, and is looking for the trick in the question. That's how I took it.

It was unfortunate that it was based around such a stupid idea/question (the earth: flat or round?), but what's even worse is the original point that she was making (which was a legitimate one) got lost because of the "hah! hah! dumbass!"ness that flourished after the video went viral.

The idea that some people aren't lucky enough to have the time, resources, and money to get a good education because they're struggling to just scrape by is worth acknowledging instead of mocking. Obviously a host of a TV show isn't one of these people, but it's a little haughty to scoff at someone who puts off educating themselves on world matters because they're trying to make sure their kids get fed. I had a similar reaction when a housewife chastised me for not "making time" to go to a protest at noon on a Wednesday. Um, sorry...I'd love to save the world and shit, but I have a fucking job and I need to keep it.

Just saying.

TheSoyMilkConspiracy, I still don't think it's as complex as all that. She's confused about something- whether it's because she really doesn't know if the Earth is flat or if she's just nervous on TV with Whoopi, but her comment is so haphazardly thrown in there I don't think it's a statement about being too poor to be educated. The debate wasn't about whether one was educated or not- Whoopi wanted to know how far Sherri's belief in the literal word of the Bible is, and when Sherri got confused she hijacked the conversation by talking about how it was hard to think and be a mom or something.

A new co-host of The View, Sherri Shepherd, doesn't know whether the earth is round or flat. Because she's too busy being a mom. Or something.
Her poor kids. When I wanted to know something and asked my mum, and my mum didn't know the answer, we'd either go to the Worldbooks that I asked for or plan a trip to the library. Sherri would probably open the Bible at random and start reading from that.
Obviously a host of a TV show isn't one of these people, but it's a little haughty to scoff at someone who puts off educating themselves on world matters because they're trying to make sure their kids get fed.
Uhm, whether the world is round or not is hardly a world matter. It's pretty much a basic fact of life. That, and the bit about the earth not being at the center of the universe.

I don't think that's the point, Joe. I think that the point might be closer to this: those who think the Bible is the be-all, end-all haven't bothered to ask questions because they were told that this whole mess started when someone went and ate from the tree of knowledge and screwed things up. This woman, with her lack of intellectual curiosity, is trying to distance herself from Eve--she wouldn't have eaten that apple. She's a good woman. All this because she is trapped in the illogic of the patriarchal religious text called the Bible. Hell, you get someone to tell you what it says, and you don't even have to read it!

"The idea that some people aren't lucky enough to have the time, resources, and money to get a good education because they're struggling to just scrape by is worth acknowledging instead of mocking."

Wait! No! The fact that the earth is round does not require a good education. It does not require any education. It is that basic. It's like 'we need to breathe air' or 'when water gets cold it becomes ice.' It is a fact so basic that it almost comes along with language acquisition. Let's not make this a class issue. There are class issues aplenty to be had in the real world. This woman was being disingenuous.

Lilianna28: Oh. Hm. I didn't see the whole show (only a small clip). I do know that the original conversation wasn't about education, but when I watched it, I interpreted it (and the surrounding mania) the way I described. I don't think she INTENDED to make the point that I stated, but I think she made it anyway - or maybe the other interpretation was correct in that her insinuation was really "yeah I don't really need to be concerned with the world and shit because I'm a mommy! Hooray!" Who knows?

or maybe the other interpretation was correct in that her insinuation was really "yeah I don't really need to be concerned with the world and shit because I'm a mommy! Hooray!"
That's pretty much how I interpreted it, and that's a damn shame. You don't have to be a genius to be a good mother, you don't have to go to college to be a good mother. But you are responsible for inculcating a sense of curiosity about the world in your children. The "I'm too busy diapering to think" excuse is just sad. It's a shame that this thoughtless woman has been given a national platform.

People are misinterpreting what I said, which sucks, especially because I stated in the first sentence of my comment that the question this was based around (earth flat?) is obviously fucking ridiculous.

I'm not saying that this isn't something that EVERYONE should be aware of or that the specific question of the shape of the earth is legitimate (it's not - duh) - I extrapolated her statement to bigger issues. What I am saying is that people have different priorities and that it's not entirely fair to judge when your priorities are different because they can be.

Am I making myself clear? I don't think there's any excuse to think the world is flat. I DO, however, think there is an excuse (some good, some bad) to not be on your shit on current events and other issues. Some people just don't have that privilege.

I think an interesting point here is that... most people have no real way of really verifying that the earth is round. I certainly haven't looked at earth from high orbit.

Unless you hop in your car/train/boat/airplane and actually do the distance... you have to rely on what scientists tell you. You know, scientists those lying, untrustworthy shitbags who thought up evolution to bring down the faithful.

I don't know if that's what she meant... but that's how I took it.

i thought this site was about feminism? not about humiliating another woman because of her beliefs and/or priorities or the way she views the world.

get a grip.

I am all for a healthy amount of skepticism, but Ms. Shepherd appears to be taking it too far.

Her poor kids. When I wanted to know something and asked my mum, and my mum didn't know the answer, we'd either go to the Worldbooks that I asked for or plan a trip to the library. Sherri would probably open the Bible at random and start reading from that.

It's cut off a little, but at the end of the clip she's asked what she'd do if her son asks her if the world is flat and she says "I'd have to go, baby, we'll have to go to the library!" ..Wherein she'd find that the world is indeed round, and that it was a pretty unnecessary trip.

I think an interesting point here is that... most people have no real way of really verifying that the earth is round. I certainly haven't looked at earth from high orbit.

I haven't either, but I've watched the phases of the moon, noticed the changes in tide, used a time zone, watched the night sky change from dusk until dawn, seen a horizon, flown on a plane, seen photographs and video images of earth from space...

It doesn't take a rocket ship to verify the shape of the earth. Anyone can do it from right here on the ground.

Sorry to pick nits, but the Earth is oval, not round. http://www.massivechange.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/INF_EarthfromSpace.jpg

I'm going to chime in and agree with the others that Sheppard knows the earth is fucking round (or oval or whatever) but she also knew that science has told us that and the first question she was asked was about evolution, which she doesn't believe in because of the bible. She probably figured where Goldberg was going with the questioning had she answered "yes" so she stalled and made herself look like a jackass in the process. It wasn't that she was saying she didn't have the education, Soymilk, what she was insinuating was that she didn't have time to THINK because she's a "mom" and now her priorities are feeding her child, which came off sounding like she was worried where the next meal would come from as if she were poor ("I'm worried how I'm going to feed my child"). Apparently she also doesn't think or realize that she's on a national talk show (which she has time to take away from her child) and she's making thousands of dollars so her child is probably well off anyway. Hell, even Barbra Walters told her "You can do both" but Sheppard kept going on about it.

It's also worth noting that the next day Sheppard ate her words and Hasselbeck defended her.

I don't think anyone is making fun of Sheppard because she's a "woman", we're making fun of her because she acted like an idiot when she knew she couldn't defend her position. If it had been a guy we'd have done the same thing. Just because a celebrity may have a vagina and we're feminists doesn't mean they get a free pass to spout stupid bullshit.

Isn't an oval still round? "Round" isn't the same thing as "a circle" or "a sphere," is it?

Also, a lot of you seem to be (purposely) missing the point. You know what this has to do with feminism? The fact that there is some woman on television telling other women that being a mother is an excuse to not think-- in fact, it's a reason why you shouldn't think, because if you're sitting around thinking, you're not spending enough time on your kids. Telling women that is extremely anti-feminist, and yes, we do need to yell about it.

And this has nothing to do with class. It wasn't a question about math or politics or history. It was a basic knowledge question like "what color is the sky?" and "who is the president?" It also has nothing to do with class because if you're on the fucking View, you can't be strapped for cash. It's not like we're making fun of random poor single mothers for not being able to do long division. We're mocking an educated, wealthy woman whose job it is to talk about current affairs. We have absolutely every right to say that she should know that the Earth is round because it's her job.

Who invited the trolls?

This imbecile does a disservice to ALL women when she suggests that reproducing is an excuse for (or even the cause of) willfull ignorance and/or complete and utter brain melt. It's entirely possible to be a mother and a critical thinker at the same time.
She clearly has enough time in her life to CO-HOST THE VIEW; her claim is bullshit.

Who needs to be "educated" that world isn't flat? The knowledge should just be THERE without having to be thought about, like that the sun is hot or things always fall to earth when you throw them (okay, provided they don't have wings or propellers or something). Jesus.

What I hate about this clip is her whole "Woe, being a mother is sooo hard! I can't think about such trivialities!!" As if your brain could only contain one thing at a time and you couldn't think about what to make for dinner AND that THE EARTH IS A SPHERE. My mother must have been some kind of superhuman genius, what with being able to work, raise three kids, AND know that the world isn't flat, all at the same time!

SOM, that (while totally true) was not my point. Everything you can do to see that the world is round (or oval or trapezoid, whatever) took a lot of scientific development to develop.

For the majority of our existence, humans have believed the earth to be flat. It took a lot of scientific progress for us to learn otherwise, so obviously it's not self-evident.

If you believe that scientific theories are wrong that you can believe anything you want to account for ocean tides, lunar phases, etc etc.

There is nothing in anything you mentioned that obviously shows that the earth is round (which makes sense) until you consider the solid theoretical support for it.

So while I may still point and laugh at what the fuddies say, it makes sense to me that if you question evolution, you may also question the shape/age/blah of the earth as well. For consistency's sake. Not that I think they care much for that either. Beliefs don't have to make sense. That's when I stopped believing.

God I can't stand that show. That woman is full of shit, along with that idiotic Hasselbeck person.

I mean shit, with the money the hosts of that show must make, I really doubt if she ever really has to cook for her family at all.

Stuff like that makes me hope that SNL picks it up and runs with it. I see hilarity on the horizon.

"But you are responsible for inculcating a sense of curiosity about the world in your children. The 'I'm too busy diapering to think' excuse is just sad."

Sadly, some people out there seem to think they have a responsibility for suppressing a sense of curiosity about the world in their children (and hoping their daughters will soon be too busy diapering to think...).

"It's cut off a little, but at the end of the clip she's asked what she'd do if her son asks her if the world is flat and she says 'I'd have to go, baby, we'll have to go to the library!'"

Better late to the library than never to the library!

For the majority of our existence, humans have believed the earth to be flat. It took a lot of scientific progress for us to learn otherwise, so obviously it's not self-evident.
Not to be nitpicky, but there have been theories about the earth being round since ancient Greece. Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle, Eratosthenes, and Ptolemy, all proposed a spherical model of earth (Technically, it's oblate spheroid).
It's just that, in the western world at least, this knowledge has been denied by the Christian church for centuries.

"Isn't an oval still round? "Round" isn't the same thing as "a circle" or "a sphere," is it?"
Of course. Just wanted to point out that minor detail.

Moxie Hart, very true, but still more recent than I'm thinking... I'm including the 10 or so thousand years before that when ppl used all sorts of entertaining ideas to explain the world around them before science developed.

And if you only count when we could actually prove that the earth wasn't flat (before that it would be just one more competing belief, no?), it's even shorter.

That said, I agree that the woman was stalling when she was seeing where the conversation was heading... and the "I'm too busy being somebody's mother to do/care about that" excuse always works right? That said, I didn't realize that diapering a kid took so much upper brain function to manage...

And I agree with whoever said that you have a responsibility to instill a sense of curiosity in your children (of all sexes).

And how many times have girls been told not to care about science bc it was 'hard' or 'gross' or 'you don't want to emasculate your future bf/husband/random-dude-on-street'? Maybe that's why she's so willing to go on national tv and claim that the world is flat. Women are supposed to be stupid, duh, that's why we don't let them out of the house.

So...she's been a mother since birth? Cuz as far as I know, there is a pretty large window between "knowing if the earth is flat" and "having children" even if you have them young...

er...isn't flat

As someone else said up thread, the conversation was about evolution. Shepherd's position was essentially, that she believe the bible, not science. Then Goldberg took it to the next step, asking if the Earth was flat. It looked as if Shepherd said she didn't know not to contradict herself , then backpedaled when she realized how that sounded. Then she went all 'I think of the children' to get her out of it. But yeah, I'm also rankled by the notion that being a mother is so hard she's prevented from even basic knowledge of the world around her. I'd also take offense that as a host of that show women are theoretically able to identify with her, which after that, is kind of insulting.

Also, she did a retraction/explanation like five minutes later, which used to be up on YouTube but keeps getting taken down.

I agree with Roni - and would like to add that her "my children take up all my brain power" nonsense falls flat when she whips out the 'the Bible says' stuff. Because if she has time for that, I think she has enough time to hop online and head over to the How things work website for an explanation - unless she truly is wondering how she can afford to feed her children, in which case she probably doesn't have a computer and internet access - but is that what she said, or was it more along the lines of 'I was distracted by trying to figure out whether to make Hamburger Helper or a Campbells' Casserole for dinner'? Cuz that's not a good excuse.

This actually kind of reminded me of the Miss South Carolina thing. I think she realized that she was on the spot and just started talking and hoping to evade actually answering the question at hand and bringing up the whole motherhood = too busy to have common sense thing was just the first thing she came up with.

If she really can't spare the brainspace to put basic facts about the world in the same mental mass as the thought 'feed the kids', I don't want her interpreting news events to a national audience.

"...bringing up the whole motherhood = too busy to have common sense thing was just the first thing she came up with."

That's not innocuous, or an individual tic, though. The fact that this particular excuse was the first trick out of her hat speaks to a really pitiful and stereotyped understanding of female gender roles. If I'm stalling in an argument, I don't default to "I can't be a woman and think at the same time." Instead, I pretend not to have heard the question. Or I Godwin that Nazi sucker I'm arguing with!

I agree with that, I'm just wondering if that is her usual hat trick or if she was trying to pander to the "typical viewer," and give an answer that she thought they would let slide, in which case that says a lot about what she thinks about her peers.

now correct me if I'm wrong, these women are supposed to be generally role model types for other women... how in the hell can anyone be ok with looking up to someone who has NEVER thought about the fact that the world is round? I could walk up to her tomorrow and say "if you walk too far to the right you will literally fall off the earth and die." this woman may not believe me, but according to her statements, she might, and she wouldnt even question me or tell me i was crazy.

my heart hurts for the millions of women that watch this show on a regular basis...

Wow. I cannot fathom that some people still refuse to believe in evolution. Pick up a freaking book.

Problem is, the only book some people think they need to pick up is the bible.

I agree with that, I'm just wondering if that is her usual hat trick or if she was trying to pander to the "typical viewer," and give an answer that she thought they would let slide, in which case that says a lot about what she thinks about her peers.

Well, to be fair, that moronic Hasselbeck ended up defending and endorsing Shepherd's approach the next day. Something along the lines of "I think it's OK to say, 'You know what, I'm busy being a mom today, and I don't really care if the earth is round or flat.'" With that sort of drivel spouted on a daily basis by a colleague, I don't think Shepherd's entirely to blame if she has low expectations of her peers' intelligence (although the rest of the ladies at that table, irritating though they may be collectively, certainly don't deserve such an uncharitable assessment of their intellects).

Why is the library a legitimate authority when the question is about "round vs. flat", but it's no longer legitimate when the question is "evolution vs. creation"?

"Why is the library a legitimate authority when the question is about 'round vs. flat', but it's no longer legitimate when the question is 'evolution vs. creation'?"

I bet she could find some creationist books at the library too...

It's hard enough for me to sympathize with people who don't "believe" in evolution, but people who don't know the the Earth is round? WTF? Ever seen a globe? How do you get to adulthood without knowing the shape of the Earth? What the hell do the think is on the ends then? The other side? Oh, I guess they just don't care. I don't get that at all.

Gawd, I wonder if she homeschooled her children.

"it makes sense to me that if you question evolution, you may also question the shape/age/blah of the earth as well."

If this woman were approaching the world from the point of view of a skeptic, I could see that; but she was clearly a believer in the Bible--none of the skeptic in her for that book. It's not skepticism that is running her brain; it's a need to adhere to the word of the god she was handed.

I wonder if she were added to the panel specifically to represent the percentage of the population who believe every word of the Bible is true. Who here has read Beyond God the Father by Mary Daly?

Just so we're clear, people have known the world was round back into prehistory. All it takes is the simple observation that a retreating landmass disappears from sight faster from the deck of a boat than from a higher vantage point. This "earth is flat" nonsense was made up by Renaissance people to discredit Middle Ages people and make them look stupid.

"Not to be nitpicky, but there have been theories about the earth being round since ancient Greece. Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle, Eratosthenes, and Ptolemy, all proposed a spherical model of earth (Technically, it's oblate spheroid)."

Now I'm wondering how many people in classical Greece had access to these ideas and discussions...

"All it takes is the simple observation that a retreating landmass disappears from sight faster from the deck of a boat than from a higher vantage point."

...for example, how many people would have had enough access to boats to make this "simple" observation?

Has anyone considered that what is most disturbing here is not the fact that she doesn't know if the Earth is flat or round, it is the complete and infallible trust she places upon the book she is trying to defend. A mere book. A book that has undoubtedly paved the way for her NOT to know this question in today's society. A book that explicitly silences women and paints way too many a picture of women as prostitute, witches, evil, conniving, harlots, et cetera.

-Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence 1 Tim 3:15. And if there is any doubt,
-As in all churches of the saints. Let your woman keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to BE UNDER OBEDIENCE, as also saith the LAW. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church... 1 Cor 14:33b-35

Now my logic tells me if this woman does not believe in evolution because of the interpretation of the bible she has been taught and simultaneously has been taught to put 100% faith in all the words written in the bible, she would have to believe the above quoted verses as well. Further more, I will even go so far as to say the very reason for which all her time is consumed with care for her children is because she is a member of a society that has modeled its laws and beliefs after the book she places utter faith in.

What does this have to do with feminism, you ask? The patriarchal society that is keeping us down, is much of the same patriarchal society the existed in those days of old. The laws and leaders from that time have ensured its preservation. Only when we truly achieve a separation of church and state will these laws vanish and women and men alike will have the "opportunity" to learn such basic facts as the one in question. The leaders upon high would have us believe we have already attained this separation, but that is simply a lie. Evidence? Full Frontal Feminism is full of it.

Yes, UltraMagnus!

A book that has undoubtedly paved the way for her NOT to know this question in today's society. A book that explicitly silences women and paints way too many a picture of women as prostitute, witches, evil, conniving, harlots, et cetera.
Not to mention a book that was written decades, at times centuries, after the events it purported to document, by different authors from diferent regions with different political agendas. That, and the fact that it's been translated so many times from so many languages--I mean, the idea of Mary being a virgin is a mistranslation from Aramaic to Latin, I think.
What cracks me up is when right to lifers bring up "thou shalt not kill" as a reason against abortion. They don't seem to know that "thou shalt not kill" only applies to fellow Christians, but it's ok to kill Jews, Pharises, and Hittites etc.
If you want to base your life on a book, fine. If I could, I'd base my life on Harry Potter. Just don't start legislating it. Or the minister will send dementors after you like that.
/rant

What cracks me up is when right to lifers bring up "thou shalt not kill" as a reason against abortion. They don't seem to know that "thou shalt not kill" only applies to fellow Christians, but it's ok to kill Jews, Pharises, and Hittites etc.

And it's also okay to wage war against a country in which over 60% of the population is children. Why does "thou shall not kill" apply only to white Americans? =/

"Before we are American, we are human." -Me.

What cracks me up is when right to lifers bring up "thou shalt not kill" as a reason against abortion. They don't seem to know that "thou shalt not kill" only applies to fellow Christians, but it's ok to kill Jews, Pharises, and Hittites etc.

And it's also okay to wage war against a country in which over 60% of the population is children. Why does "thou shall not kill" apply only to white Americans? =/

"Before we are American, we are human." -Me.