I can't believe, in this day and age, that they still have to write articles on this shit. Like the idea that I don't feel particularly attracted to a grown adult who not only can't clean up after themselves, but fully expects another grown adult to do it for them, is so foreign and mind-blowing that it's the next coming of the theory of relativity. For chrissakes.

As sad as it is, I had to explain this to my husband.

That it's easier to relax if I don't feel like there's something else I should be doing instead.

Even good guys have trouble with this sometimes.

Why,this could lead to men doing 15 more minutes of housework a week!

I read this and immediately thought "how fucking stupid"...then I realized that, for me, it's actually probably true. Says a little something about our expectations, although it could have to do with the fact that I'm far more inclined to fuck a guy who's into egalitarian relationships.

Hmm... if a woman's not exhausted from housework, then she has time and energy for sex. Duh.

These articles are just cognitive behavioral therapy in disguise. Change the behavior first, and watch the cognitions adapt, even if ever so painfully slowly. Convince a guy to do housework (for whatever reason), maybe he starts seeing himself as a guy who does housework. Then maybe he starts seeing himself as a guy who values equality for its own sake.

That's a hell of a lot more effective than expecting men to not be assholes just because being an asshole is a bad thing in and of itself.

Duh. If I spent the past couple hours cleaning up from dinner, folding laundry and sweeping (AFTER working 9-5) while you sat on the couch watching football, there's no way I'm going to want to bone you.
Being taken for granted =/= turn on.

seeing their men do more of it puts them in a better mood in general.

Well obviously. But wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where putting their partners in a better mood was a goal in and of itself for men?

Btw, I do signficantly >50% of our laundry. This doesn't work :0)

And also, "a man doesn't have to do exactly 50 percent of the housework to please his wife. If he just does enough so that she feels supported, she'll be happier."

Actually, I would want my partner to do half the housework. That's when I'd feel supported. That's when I'd feel pleased.

I applied the above quote to how this nation deals with child support. Around 80% of noncustodial parents are fathers, but only around 40% of custodial parents get full child support payments. And even those full child support payments aren't nearly what that father would be contributing if he was a custodial parent. In divorce, men become richer and women become poorer, and one of the reasons is mothers have to pick up the slack in ensuring their kids have financial security.

I don't think women should accept for a second this idea that men don't have to do more than a half-assed job when it comes to home and family. It's like we have to be happy with what we get and asking for equality is just plain greedy.

Mine doesn't do shit around the house. I rip him a new one regularly for this but it has no impact. I'm sure that if he got off his ass and put in some effort somewhere, I'd be in the mood more often because I would be less angry.

Mine doesn't do shit around the house. I rip him a new one regularly for this but it has no impact. I'm sure that if he got off his ass and put in some effort somewhere, I'd be in the mood more often because I would be less angry.

Mild suggestion: stop cleaning up after him, or dump the jerk. Life's too short to be someone's unpaid, unappreciated servant.

For weeks, my dude kept asking me when I was going to bring my laundry to his place (he has machines in his building). I was resistant, but finally gave in last week. He had said beforehand if the machines were full, he'd do it later in the week, which is what happened. I am a very lucky girl.

For those of you with live-in partners who don't do laundry: if both of you are working, yet you end up doing all the laundry, just stop doing your partner's laundry. It's that simple.

Unless one is working 80 hours a week and the other only 20 (assuming you both work outside the home), there's no excuse for one to be doing more of the housework, period.

Maybe this is one of the benefits of growing up in a single-parent household; I was required to help out at home a lot and now doing basic household chores is second nature.

As for laundry, not only do I do my own (well, I'm single, so I have to) but I don't want anyone else to do it because I'm worried that it won't be done right.

>>>For those of you with live-in partners who don't do laundry: if both of you are working, yet you end up doing all the laundry, just stop doing your partner's laundry.

My environmental self always defeats my feminist self on that one. My husband even says that I don't have to do his laundry, but I'd rather run a full washing machine than waste all those resources when I only have a few items.

It's easy to say, "Well, just don't do it." but there is only so much filth one can live with/in before one cleans. If his tolerance is greater than yours for squalor, you'll end up cleaning.

...and so, ladies and gentlemen, that is why I do 90-95% of the housework, laundry, dishes, childcare in my home despite the fact that I work a 40 hr week just like he does and have even had two jobs. Someday, the kids will be gone and either I will die or he will and either way, I won't have to clean up anymore.

well its true that I'm in a better mood when the house isn't a disaster of someone else's doing.

But I myself find that my fiance goes through phases of cleaning. But i guess I do too. Life isn't all the condusive to uber clean digs.

Anyway, what a rediculous pitch. the whole "oh don't worry men, you don't have do your entire fair share of the house work" is really fucking funny.

A couple of years ago my partner and I worked out a deal--he does all things laundry and I do all things food. Any other housework stuff we do together.

In terms of hours spent I still probably do more, but I like most of the kitchen stuff pretty well and I hate laundry with a passion so it's worked out well for us.

A couple of years ago my partner and I worked out a deal--he does all things laundry and I do all things food. Any other housework stuff we do together.

In terms of hours spent I still probably do more, but I like most of the kitchen stuff pretty well and I hate laundry with a passion so it's worked out well for us.

"...that is why I do 90-95% of the housework, laundry, dishes, childcare in my home despite the fact that I work a 40 hr week just like he does and have even had two jobs."

This makes me sad.

As for laundry, not only do I do my own (well, I'm single, so I have to) but I don't want anyone else to do it because I'm worried that it won't be done right.

I have been training myself to not have that same attitude, mainly because I believe it is enabling. I think part of the issue is that, for at least myself, being a product of the 2nd wave was that we were taught that we had to be able to do everything in order to achieve equality/equity. My husband and I have had this discussion recently, because my complaint was that he didn't do the laundry correctly and some of my clothing was ruined (which has happened on several occasions). I think having that attitude is dangerouse, because there is no reason to expect that someone can't due just as good a job as I can, and I don't need to enable their behavior in trying to get out of it.

Ultimately, my husband and I try to divide the chores into the ones we both like to do more than others, ie I do the laundry, he takes care of the trash etc. I think all couples can find what works best for them on t his though.

Kinda off-topic, but:

being a product of the 2nd wave was that we were taught that we had to be able to do everything in order to achieve equality/equity.

Unfortunately, equality will never be reached until men are able to do everything as well. 'Cause right now women are doing "women's work" and "men's work" but men are only doing "men's work." So women are working twice as hard as men.

A generalization, of course.

Yes, males generally have a higher dirt tolerance than females - I've spent the last 2 years in shared accommodation, and often I was the only female in a house of 5. When the chore roster failed (usually because someone slept in & didn't get the trash out in time for collection), I solved it by taking responsibility for the one thing I really had to have clean - the bathroom. I found that if I had one part of the house which was up to my standards & regularly cleaned, I could grit my teeth and get past the others. What really got the message through was me not doing the dishes. When a 20 year old guy can't eat, he really starts to understand. I have to say, most of my flatmates ended up very well trained. Except the guy who never worked out where the laundry powder goes in the washing machine.

Unfortunately, equality will never be reached until men are able to do everything as well.

I think that is the point I was trying to make. What I meant was that I feel i tis necessary, at least for me and my sanity, to stop enabling the man in my life to get away with not doing the laundry as well/expertly as myself. It is an unfair burden I placed upon myself, which I learned watching my mom do the same.

*sorry if I was off topic, just wanted to clarify.*

My husband and I have had this discussion recently, because my complaint was that he didn't do the laundry correctly and some of my clothing was ruined (which has happened on several occasions). I think having that attitude is dangerouse, because there is no reason to expect that someone can't due just as good a job as I can, and I don't need to enable their behavior in trying to get out of it.

Hmm...I never thought of it that way, but I see where you're coming from. I've never been married, nor have I ever shared a dwelling with a significant other, so I never experienced this problem.

My boyfriend and I don't live together, but when I spend the weekends at his apartment I either have the choice of maniacally cleaning everything or dealing with the mess. I usually deal with the mess (though one time I did get the odd compulsion to clean his living room while he was sleeping) though it can be annoying (where am I going to put my laptop, there's too many pop cans on the coffee table!). He does major cleaning jobs every few months, if I were living there I'd probably do minor ones every few days. But if I were living there, he'd be cooking for me, so it would all work out.

Even men that think they get it right, get it so so wrong.

My bf claims to have done a huge clean up of the whole flat a couple of weeks ago. He in fact washed the dishes and put some stuff in the recycling bin.

He likes to think that we're in an equal relationship and that he's a great feminist man, but the only time he ever does any housework is when I'm so angry and miserable at the state of our flat I can barely keep the tears at bay. Or when I'm working really really hard, he'll clear up a few newspapers and empty cans, to make himself feel better and like we're working as a team.

There's a brilliant book called Wifework by Susan Maushart which I think everyone should read. It's a feminist analysis of housework in relationships and marriages... I'm trying to get my bf to read it. Here's hoping!

Here's how Maushart suggests working out if you're in an equal partnership in a shared home with your partner: he may do household tasks - but has he ever cleaned the toilet? Unless he cleans the toilet 50% of the time, your relationship is unequal.

But yeah, this piece is ridiculous - how the fuck do you expect me to want to have sex with you when as soon as I get home from work, I spent the rest of the night doing housework whilst you talk on the phone and watch the news?! Aaargh!

1. i do a majority of the housework because my girl is at school and work a lot, i dont complain about it and i dont expect anything in return except her smile.

2. it rather pisses me off the way almost all of you refer to "men" as if i'm exactly the same as your particular guys. i cant tell you how much i appreciate that. i thought the point of feminism was to encourage equality, not gender stereotypes.

I'm a newby here, so firstly "Hi everyone" :)

commiewimp,

If your guy is anything like me it is probably just because he does not realise when things are dirty. I have no problem doing dishes and washing clothes, as I can easily see when it needs doing.

But cleaning the bathroom and toilet (a task I do the majority of the time, as she finds it gross and I don't get botherd by it) is a bit different. My wife will ask me 'can you clean the toilet - it's really filthy', I'll go in and think "but it's already clean" - same goes for the bath, sink and floors etc. I used to point this out, but just ended up with almost invisible blemishes being pointed out to me. So now when I'm asked I go and clean it anyway, and just make sure I slather everything in bleach and clean all the already clean surfaces. Then I go into the living room and wonder why she's cleaning the already clean kitchen.

I just moved in with my partner and we argue about household chores.

In regards to your comment, EhSteve, about not seeing when things are dirty, I think we may have worked out a compromise. An example: I told him how often I clean the toilet, once a week, and he told me how often he would, once a month (pardon me, but ew), so now, someone has to clean whatever damn thing once every two weeks (and we are taking turns).

This is not perfect. We still argue over this. In fact, I have a feeling that keeping any sort of balance is going to take a lot of checking back in with each other.

whatever damn thing = toilet in the example above

...I really need to start previewing before I post.

Men and women generally have massive differences in standards of cleanliness! But that's what you get when nearly every little girl is taught to help her mum with the housework as soon as she hits about 4, whereas nearly every little boy is not - and even when mothers try to get both their kids to help around the house equally, the little girl sees her mum do it and that her friends do it and accepts it as her role, whereas the little boy often doesn't have any reference point in seeing men do housework, so he'll refuse to do it and make a fuss... so the mother gives up and just gets her daughter to help and leaves her son to watch TV. Just to get a little peace.

(I think feminists who raise children are among the bravest people in the world!)

I can think of countless examples of young men I know who simply don't understand basic household tasks, like folding a bedsheet, cleaning a toilet, chopping vegetables, even using a can opener (!) because they've never had to do it for themselves.

It's tragic. The article does have a point in that respect... the men I know who are completely incapable of looking after themselves and doing household chores are generally the ones who struggle in the romantic stakes, as the only women they've ever had a relationship with is their mother, who they treated like a slave.

heh - when I went to university my first year room mate needed me to teach him: how to use the microwave, how to cook microwave dinners, how to use the washing machines and dryers and how to boil rice/eggs - I tried teaching him how to actually cook but it was too much for him. I was shocked to say the least as I had been doing most of this stuff for myself since I was about 10. I was almost at the point of asking him if he needed instructions on how to wipe his backside.

I don't think it is so much that the boys treat their mother like slaves, but that the mother treats them like babies who can't look after themselves.

I just had to say that in the picture above the guy looks sooo pissed off it's scary. He is ready to hurl that basket of clothes at someone.
I think that the article forgot to mention that a surly, indignent man helping with housework is still not a turn on. :)

2. it rather pisses me off the way almost all of you refer to "men" as if i'm exactly the same as your particular guys. i cant tell you how much i appreciate that. i thought the point of feminism was to encourage equality, not gender stereotypes.

A small piece of advice: If a comment that says "men do X" doesn't apply to you, don't bother getting worked up about it. Study after study after study has found that men, as a group, do less work around the house than women, as a group, do. That you're an outlier shouldn't prevent women from being able to discuss and complain about that fact.

roymac,

in fairness to him, I'm new here but I think I can guess the response someone would get here if they were saying something negative about "women" that may be true for the general/average case but has plenty of outliers.

Now - as being a newbie I'll stfu now before I piss everyone off with incessant posting :)

Which was why I was really nice in my response.

I'm sorry, but nou's complaint just strikes me as a disingenuous crticism that was intended more as a "Gotcha!" than as any sort of real anlysis.

Nou claims "almost all of you refer to "men" as if i'm exactly the same as your particular guys." But, when you read through the tread, I think you'll find that almost nobody made reference to "men" in the general sense. A number of people commented about their spouse/partner/boyfriend. I hardly think that counts as generalizing about nou, though.

Nobody in this thread said "All men, even nou, are filthy pigs who refuse to help clean the house." That a couple of people were painting with pretty broad strokes is forgivable given the number of studies that show that, in general, men don't help with the house work.

I think that one thing a feminist man can do is learn to understand that a lot of women are coming from a place of serious frustration- given that some of the women posting here are involved in relationships where they do 90% of the work around their homes, despite holding down jobs- and that's on top of the rather significant sexism that exists in the world at large- I think that about the least nou can do is suck it up and realize that nobody is trying to impugn him for doing his house work.

If he really doesn't expect a cookie for doing his share of the work, I'm not sure why he feels the need to play a game of "Gotcha!" on a blog where nobody knows him, anyway.

Hooray for spelling errors and typos. *sigh*

Buy a house that's falling apart. Make him do all the home repairs (by simply failing to do any yourself, even if he asks you nicely, because you were too busy doing the housework). When home repair (coded masculine) becomes something that is done as constantly as laundry, you will finally feel that there is balance in your relationship!

Of course you'll never actually have a clean house because one part or another will always be under construction, and you'll never have a free weekend to be a family because he's always doing home improvement projects, but at least you won't feel like you're doing all the work and he's doing exactly jack around the house.

(I *think* I'm being sarcastic. Not sure. This is my life, and I gotta say, my desire to scream and throw things at my husband for never doing a bit of laundry or dishes really did go away when we moved to a house that he has to do repair and home improvement stuff to *constantly*... but perhaps the cure was worse than the disease.)

What really gets me here is the behavior of most men towards their partners. How do these people justify considering themselves to *be* partners?! Treating another person like that is reprehensible, and treating someone you claim to love and cherish like that makes you into a liar and a hypocrite. If I love someone, I want them to feel cherished and cared for, and I'll go out of my way and do more work for them than "my fair share" to help them feel that way.

Another thing me & many of my friends have experienced when our so-called femininst boyfriends help around the house, they constantly feel the need to tell us about it like they deserve a medal for having put some washing into the machine...

Men doing an equal share of the housework is GOOD. But it's what we should expect out of our relationships - men shouldn't need constant praise in order to keep it up! Just get on with it - like we've been doing for time immemorial.