Well of course the airline could ask them to wear those short skirts, they were making money of the hotness of their stewardesses, but now it's women choosing to wear it willingly, and we can't have that.

Gawd I hate it when people get into the "50 years ago" nostaligia. Guess what? 50 years before THAT women couldn't show any skin at all, not even an ankle! And 50 years before THAT, and 50 years before THAT...etc. etc. etc. It seems like the 40s/50s/early 60s are just this peachy keen time in the world, where everything was perfect. Blah!

I've never flown Southwest before, but my family's taking a trip to Chicago on Southwest in October--I fully plan to dress in something 'revealing' as a form of protest now.
Honestly, the outfit that woman is wearing looks completely acceptable to me.

Bastards. How dare this asshole think he can tell her how to dress? What business is it of his? At what point does that have anything to do with anything? Unless she's endangering herself or other passengers, what is it to him what she does or wears? I don't even understand his rationale for thinking he had any right to so much as comment, never mind give orders.

Fuck that guy. I hope that he loses his job.

. . . even though he probably won't.

Folks who've studied employment discrimination law may remember Southwest was the subject of a famous case involving their "Love Airline" (or something like that) marketing campaign from about 40 years ago, which involved stewardesses being required to wear hot pants, miniskirts, etc. They lost. That said, SWA flight attendants in the modern era wear pants or shorts and comfortable shoes, as do their desk personnel.

I have been a Southwest frequent flyer and an admirer of their corporate culture for years now, and have to say that this event is so far removed from how Southwest employees are expected to treat their customers (and, in my experience, DO treat their customers) that I cannot believe it is representative of SWA policy in general. And - I would bet good money that "Keith" is no longer employed there! At least, I hope not. What an asshole.

CBS Sunday This Morning just did an interesting piece on Southwest this past weekend. It had some great footage of the miniskirts and hot pant outfits the flight attendants wore at the airline's start.

I'm pretty sure this must be an isolated incident. I fly on Southwest all the time, between school and home, and I've seen plenty of young women dressed like that.

It's that ridiculous editorial that's got me upset, really. First, because false nostalgia is a giant pet peeve of mine, but mainly, what "line"? The line between whore and otherwise? Good and evil? The utter dissolve of society because some women show their legs? It's just a ridiculous train of thought.

Southwest Airlines Executive Contact Information:

Toll-free customer service number: (800) 435-9792

Jim Ruppel
Vice president, customer relations
P.O. Box 36647
Dallas, TX 75235-1647
(214) 792-4223 (general branch number, will have to attempt asking to be transferred to Jim by name)
jim.ruppel@wnco.com

Donna Conover
Executive vice president, customer operations
(214) 792-4000 (corporate location #, ask the operator to transfer you)
donna.conover@wnco.com

Chief executive
Gary Kelly
Chief executive officer
(214) 792-4000 (corporate location #, ask the operator to transfer you)
gary.kelly@wnco.com

Maybe her outfit was distracting to the pilot. He could have crashed!!!

[Obviously kidding! I'm thinking about that post a few months ago about the bus driver who made the woman get off the bus b/c her cleavage being too distracting].

Ok, but here's something that hasn't been mentioned yet (unless I've missed it.) Was she flying as a regular fare passenger, or was she using standby tickets? Because I flew standby with my boyfriend this summer (courtesy of a family friend) and it turns out they have a VERY STRICT dress code. I mean you can't even wear a T shirt, for God's sake. They almost kept the two of us from being able to fly home over it, and were VERY, VERY rude in the process. We were both clean, covered up, and dressed nicely besides the not having a collared shirt issue, which we didn't realize was an issue. So they find it appropriate to enforce discrimination in that area. So I'd be interested to know whether or not she was indeed a standby passenger. Not that I think its right. I think the dress code thing is a crock, and completely ridiculous. It's not like any one else on the plane knew we were using standby tickets (until they lectured us publicly.) There were plenty of scantily clad women on that flight, let me tell you.

This sounds like one rogue employee who let his misogyny get in the way of his job, as opposed to this being company policy, so I hope this does not spiral into some sort of lawsuit or boycott.

But I hope that employee gets a nice, all-expenses-paid vacation to the unemployment office out of this.

And the columnist needs to get a grip. Miniskirts are not a sign of the apocalypse.

(as an aside... as a guy, I don't understand other men who get pissy like that Southwestern employee over what women choose to wear. And if anything, we're supposed to be in FAVOR of revealing clothing on women... right? ;) )

Shanpo - really? I tried to find that policy in writing on the internet, but couldn't. Could they have been making up a bullshit rule to keep you from flying for some other reason? (Other forms of discrimination, they wanted a customer who paid more, etc...?)

Shanpo & Betsy, those policies on dress codes are usually for what they call "non-revenue" passengers. These passengers are either employees of the airline or guests of those employees. The airline provides employees free (plus taxes) standby tickets on a space available basis as a perk.

Usually the dress code for non-rev passengers is very explicitly and specifically spelled out so their is no confusion and it ensures that you are in appropriate business or business casual dress (depending on the class of service). When I've flown as a non-rev passenger, the dress code was provided immediately upon reservation for the ticket and I had to check a little "acknowledge" box. The airline employee who provides the pass should also be fully aware of these restrictions. It is their responsibility to tell you there is a dress code before giving you a pass to use.

If this woman was using one of those passes, her outfit would've been more likely policed by the gate agent than a flight attendant though. I would guess this particular Southwest employee was a rogue and a jerk and hopefully doesn't represent the opinions of his whole company.

She is more well dressed than a lot of people I see on planes. Most notable, a hairy smelly man in a dirty tank top. No one gave HIM any trouble, and his aroma was more offensive than that woman's clean, put-together outfit.

P.S. Is this the same airline that kicked the mother and her toddler off because the kid kept babbling "bye bye plane" as they took off?

Southwest flew its first flight in 1971, according to the company's website, so it seems unlikely that they'd be requiring flight attendants to be doing anything 50 years ago.

Exactly, Becca. I used to fly stand-by a lot with my dad, and they were very strict about dress code. Even when I was about four or five, I had to be dressed "appropriately", which basically meant in a skirt and blouse/dress.

I don't get it though, why do they even care what a standby/non-revenue passenger is wearing?

on a side note, i just moved to china and got super confused when i saw that no, robot! had posted on September 5th while I was in the middle of reading the thread, haha. But then I figured out that it was b/c of the time difference. I am so smart, s-m-r-t!

Rock Star-
I know a couple of people in the industry (one of which is a senior Southwest employee), and they think ratty-looking passengers hurt their brand image. With employees or employees' family members flying for free, they feel they can exert a little control over the "problem".

I thought the non-rev dress code only applied if you listed in business or first class?

Rember the show "Airline" that featured Southwest? This would have made an interesting episode...

This is utter ridiculousness. I'm more in general "offended" (but not really) by people who refuse to get fully dressed and wander around in pajamas everywhere. But I don't try to order them off planes or otherwise refuse them service. All this dress code nonsense also reminds me of an interview with the owner of Ryanair, about how "classing" a plane is ridiculous. It's a bus that flies. I hope this Keith asshat is totally fired, and that this doesn't make airlines think, "dress codes! great idea!".

this isn't the only case of fashion police. An American-Iraqi man wearing an Arabic/English shirt that said "We Will Not Be Silent" was not allowed to fly. He sued.

Dress codes are dress codes but I think you'd be saying something else if a guy walked onto a plane with his penis hanging out. Or maybe even showing underneath.

Nothing in this article has told me she didn't walk onto a plane with everything hanging out that shouldn't be in a public place.

She posed for a media pic as she wanted it to be seen, not how she walked onto that plane.

As a parent I wouldn't want to see a guys penis or ass hanging out, nor would I want them to see the same on a woman.

From the picture she's discreet, does that mean that's the way she walked on to the flight?

I can honestly say I've seen my share of very, very upper thigh/ass in women on a plane but never a penis. Two inches inbetween might be your own biz but it's not coverage

The prior comments have been nothing but a big ok for this behavior.

(why is one ok and not the other?)

Let's say I'm a guy who has a great looking penis. Not just average. Why isn't ok for me to show it off on a airplane? Or a great ass.. guys could wear really tight fittin shorts .......

I do not believe this woman was singled out among millions of airline passengers a day as a person they would attack regarding how she dressed.

I do believe she's trying to be a feminist (or anti) spokeswoman and get her ten minutes of fame.

Again I've been on every major airline and seen all sorts of dress.

"Can I push those limits and get nationwide attention"

I'd say no. I've seen many a woman dressed less then you were in that picture on a U.S flight. No you can't.

Oh dear.

kave barney- Really? Do you really think this woman hiked her skirt way up to walk on to the plane? Cause that seems unlikely.

Kave - since when is upper thigh/ass/legs the same as a genitals? You're comparing things all wrong - she wasn't flashing her vagina, she was showing her LEGS. Wear short-shorts to show off those hot gams and then you can compare. But flopping out that above average penis and waving it around on an airplane does not compare to this girl wearing a mini skirt.

But honestly, I was on board with this girl until I read her stupid mother's quote about how attractive and tall and blonde her daughter is and how she's envied for her appearance and how all 23 year olds who "can get away with it" dress provocatively. Lady, PLEASE!

Plus, Keith said it was because of children and "adults with heightened sensitivities" - I suspect some cranky passenger complained about her and Keith had to figure out a way to deal with it. He didn't refuse to let her fly, he asked her to change, she said no, he asked her to leave to change and she said no, so he let her fly! Of course, it's silly for it to have happened in the first place, but I don't think it's cool to jump and call this guy an asshat and will his unemployment without the whole picture.

Ahh, fuck Southwest. I used to fly them, but good luck with ever getting my business again, and I do fly a lot. Besides, Northwest is much cheaper and more efficient anyway (I don't have stock in NWA, I promise!).

When I fly out to Cali next week, though - I might just wear a dress. Or, on second thoughts, if her dress caused controversies, I can only imagine what my "I (heart) pro-choice girls" shirt will do!

And Jane, I LOVED that show. But, of course, they'd only show drunken people being refused fly privilege. Nothing like this. EVER!

OMG! kave barney, I totally forgot about the children. Save the Children! Save the Children! They might see my upper thigh and...and..what? See upper thigh?

Sometimes, actually, most of the time, it's NOT kiddie time. We live in an adult world made for adults. If you want dress codes and children, children, children, go to Disneyland.

I find stuff like this infuriating. Personally, I find it can be hard to be a breastfeeding mother -- whenever you want to go somewhere and the kid gets hungry, you've got to feed him, and there's always a part of me that's terrified some stranger is going to start scolding me about being indecent. I don't particularly care who sees a small glimpse of the side of my boob while I'm adjusting baby, blanket, and shirt. Hell, I showed more than that while giving birth. But I'm not flashing you, I'm feeding a person. She's hungry, she wants food, and she's not going to understand "no, sweetie, the morality police think it's inappropriate for you to eat here, you'll have to wait."

I tend to find that even the strangers who are violently uncomfortable with learning that I have breasts are more uncomfortable to have a screaming infant on the same flight as them. But occurances like this, when the flight crew can apparently decide what apparel is decent, open a scary door -- one behind which I can see myself getting thrown off a flight because I am breastfeeding my child before takeoff. Hell, my "behavior" (having a breast out of shirt) would probably be considered more flagrant than wearing "minimal" clothing.

And I HATE the fact that there is an attitude in this world which makes me ashamed of being able to feed my children whenever they need it.

- - - - -

"I can honestly say I've seen my share of very, very upper thigh/ass in women on a plane but never a penis."
I've seen plenty of too-tight and unpleasantly bulging pants on planes. Those guys never get criticized, nobody whispers they're sluts looking for attention... and that is the basic male equivalent of a short skirt. Nobody has a penis hanging out any more than they do labia.

ugh. i just called southwest and the woman was a total b*tch. she said that her manner of dress was "offensive" to other customers. that is a sexy outfit, yes, but hardly offensive! i could pick many people with offensive clothing (other people might call it bad fashion, hahah). how obnoxious!!! southwest, you suck and i will never fly you!!!!!!!

Southwest Airlines is also the one who can randomly pull larger customers and demand that they pay for 2 seats- or hold up the entire flight while the fat rider has to disembark from the plane.

They are evil and must be stopped.

"As a parent I wouldn't want to see a guys penis or ass hanging out, nor would I want them to see the same on a woman."

This is it: The reason any woman wears a short skirt is to show off her vagina. Damn, he's on to us.

What kind of person equates a woman showing her legs to a man whipping out his goods?

Not that it matters a great deal, but I'd like to know if she was flying standby or not. I flew standby on United once, and they made me change shoes - I was wearing sandals - before they would let me on.

OK, I just read the article, and I'm reallt bothered by:
1. “My daughter is young, tall, blond and beautiful,� Michele Ebbert told me, “and she is both envied and complimented on her appearance. She dresses provocatively, as do 99 percent of 23-year-old girls who can."
2. Ebbert, who is 5-foot-5 and has green eyes, is pretty enough to be a model. Yet even wearing the clothes that scandalized Southwest, she did not attract attention beyond some lingering glances.
3. “'I hope she's not sitting next to my husband,'� Garin replied.

How is it that an article decrying sexism is riddles w/ comments on this girl's appearance. What if a short, curvy brunette had been wearing the same outfit? Is that not allowed? Why is it more offensive that this girl is young and conventionally attractive?

I just emailed Southwest employees (to addresses given above, thanks) this:

I am completely appalled that one of your employees thought he had the right to refuse service to Kyla Ebbert because of his opinion of how she was dressed. I find it a disgusting comment on your organization and will do everything in my power to fly other airlines.

Becca-I'm guessing you work for the airlines? Anyway the whole thing was rather a confusing mess for us, the only place the dress code was mentioned was on some fine print on a small insert that came with our tickets. The people that supplied them to us never mentioned it, either. It was our first time standby and we realized we had to dress nice, so we did, but we hadn't realized that it was to such a ridiculous extent, and that for failing to live up to the rigid code we would be publicly scolded like children and then almost withheld from a return flight. We were not in business or first class, just regular seating on some completely average commercial airplane.

And as far as being stopped by the gate person, the funny thing about that was we were checked in when we first arrived at the airport and checked in nothing was ever mentioned (at that time we had our suitcases and could have changed his shirt to a collared one if specified.) No comment. Later on, actually BOARDING the plane, the SAME MAN happened to be taking tickets and all of a sudden our attire was an issue, and the man treated us very nastily at that time, when we no longer had our suitcases and thought we had already passed inspection. I'd really like for someone to find an excuse for that one. I was really disappointed in that airport. (none of the others gave us any trouble.)

PS. Kave, what would you describe as a great looking, above average penis? Just curious-they're all about the same in my view... and even if there was one, I don't think I'd ever want to see it fashionably displayed....

It's really ignorant to compare a penis to a leg (or breast). Do women ever use their cleavage as weapons? Because some men use their penises that way. Women's breasts and legs are not threatening like a man's penis is. Nor are they sex organs. A better comparison would be a woman's vulva hanging out, and that's not what happened here.

Well, there's irony for you. She's a Hooter's waitress, her livelihood depends on her attire, but more modest attire disqualifies her from flying on an airplane. Hmm.

DivaJean, making fat people buy two seats makes sense to me. I was on an American flight to Atlanta once and had to sit next to this extremely obese women who literally had to wedge herself into her seat. Her fat then overflowed over the armrest and into my seat. I had like three-quarters of a normal seat ... after takeoff I got out of my seat and spent most of the flight sitting on the floor by the lavatories (there were no other free seats). Yuck.

I think the better solution to accomodating obese passengers (as opposed to making them pay 2x) is to:

a) have larger seats to begin with (those things are tiny no matter what size you are).

or

b) Since being severely obese may qualify as a disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act if it impedes with day to day functioning, it is then up the airline to accomodate YOU...not the other way around.

Hmm, Harper Valley FFA?

That outfit is in no way offensive. "Keith" is probably some heterosexist, insecure male who can't stand a confident independent woman. I am personally going to ban Southwest Airlines until they make a public apology!

"I think the better solution to accomodating obese passengers (as opposed to making them pay 2x) is to:

a) have larger seats to begin with (those things are tiny no matter what size you are)."

I must agree with this--also, I would recommend removing about 1/4 to half of the rows of seats from an average airplane to allow for passengers to have more leg room. The only time I have ever felt truly comfortable on a plane since growing to over five and a half feet tall was when I was seated in an exit row. If people are getting fatter and taller, airlines should accomodate this. I wouldn't mind paying more for a ticket if I knew I'd be spending my travel time in relative comfort.

1. PFMale, my favorite episodes of "Airline" always involved people bringing dried carcasses of some kind, teeming with bugs. The baggage handlers would freak out and bascially say, HELL NO. The passengers would get indignant and wonder why they can't bring such things onto planes??

2. On offensive attire: I work in Times Square, so I'm exposed to a lot of tourist outfits (lots of pastel, boxy, billowy, pleated things atop shapeless, overly suntanned, suburban car-driving legs). If this is what they're wearing on planes, I cannot for the life of me see why this woman's outfit was supposedly traumatizing.

3. I think this falls under "blame the single woman." You know, because single women are the root of everything evil. If she'd been accompanied by a man, I bet this incident wouldn't have taken place.

I'd bet this was body-based sexism. She's really being penalized for having an attractive figure. Just like that woman who claimed that Jessica V. was "sticking out her breasts." My money says if she were flat-chested with short legs, they wouldn't have said a word.

"I think the better solution to accomodating obese passengers (as opposed to making them pay 2x) is to:

a) have larger seats to begin with (those things are tiny no matter what size you are).

I must agree with this--also, I would recommend removing about 1/4 to half of the rows of seats from an average airplane to allow for passengers to have more leg room. The only time I have ever felt truly comfortable on a plane since growing to over five and a half feet tall was when I was seated in an exit row. If people are getting fatter and taller, airlines should accomodate this. I wouldn't mind paying more for a ticket if I knew I'd be spending my travel time in relative comfort."

But then keep in mind, that will more than double our costs to fly, because there would be half as many seats. This would also be worse for the enviroment, because we would need twice as many planes. Not to mention all the currently small seats that will get trashed in order to make room for these larger seats.

I am not crazy about the idea of making fatter people pay more; on the other hand, if you are paying for a certain size space, and someone is taking more than their fair share, I don't know what to say. It doesn't seem fair that their seat neighbor should suffer. I am drawing a blank on how to solve this.

Good point JenLovesPonies- on average, I don't think most passengers spill over into the next seat as one person commented earlier...in that case, maybe just having one row of larger seats for those people who truly can't fit in the average seat. I don't think that would affect the prices too much, and it would accommodate everyone.

Although for the life of me I can't understand why even the new planes are built with the same small seating. People have been complaining about this forever, so why not just make the seats a teenie bit bigger (an inch or two can't hurt) on new planes?

Hey, Alaric, that's a great idea! I have the same problem, whenever I ride a bus or airplane and I have to sit next to a man. See, most men, regardless of height, have what I call Imaginary Two-Foot Wide Penis Syndrome, in which they must at all costs spread their legs as far apart as they can in order to make space for their apparently giant, hallowed dick. In most cases, Two-Foot-Wide-Dick Man ends up taking up, oh, about HALF of my sitting space, even if he's on the aisle. In fact, men take up much more of my sitting space than just about any obese person I've sat next to -- although I'd guess that you might never have experienced this, as I've noticed that guys are miraculously capable of closing their legs when sitting next to another man. Whether this is because they're afraid of being thought of as gay by being too close to another man or whether they think men are more deserving of personal space, I have no idea. I'm guessing some combination. When I read your comment, I was actually surprised that you were so angry at the obese woman who only took up one quarter of your normal seat, since most women are used to men taking up much more of their space than that. And you know, since men make more money than I do, it surely wouldn't be a great burden to make them pay for two seats. So yeah, great idea! Make men and obese people pay more!

But in all seriousness, I really don't believe that anybody should have to pay for two seats. I agree with those who've said that airlines should make their seats bigger -- it would benefit all passengers, not just obese or tall ones.

I don't see why you'd need to have one row of extra seats for extremely obese people. Most people are not that fat! It's pretty rare. But seriously, when I was sitting in my seat I ended up holding my arm in my lap because there was no where else to put it. And even then her flesh was still invading my personal space. Actual, surreptitious cameraphone pic. People have to pay extra when they have a lot of bags; I don't see why this should be any different.

People have to pay extra when they have a lot of bags; I don't see why this should be any different.

Because it's a human being, not a piece of luggage. And that person deserves to travel for the same amount of money the rest of do for the same crappy, half-assed service. Put yourself in that persons' shoes...they are being forced to pay tons of money for a seat on a flight they can't even fit into. I'm sure the lady next to you wasn't too comfortable either (and taking a pic was actually a bit rude). Making them pay for 2 seats is hardly fair.

The column was obnoxious. Coupe de grace: "I hope she's not sitting next to my husband," Garin replied.

Puke.

The column was obnoxious. Coupe de grace: "I hope she's not sitting next to my husband," Garin replied.

Puke.

The column was obnoxious. Coupe de grace: "I hope she's not sitting next to my husband," Garin replied.

Puke.

apologies for the threepeat. no idea what went down there.

I'd bet this was body-based sexism. She's really being penalized for having an attractive figure. Just like that woman who claimed that Jessica V. was "sticking out her breasts." My money says if she were flat-chested with short legs, they wouldn't have said a word.

Ditto that.

For the record, I LOVE Southwest. They were tremendously helpful to my family when we needed last-second plane tickets, one-ways, and changed flights during family illness. Oddly, a lot of the people at Lindberg Field were wonderful to us.

So yeah, I think this Keith character is not acting in accordance with Southwest policy. The company cannot be responsible for the actions of every single employee - really, do you want them to electronically monitor everyone? However, it can control how it responds to problems with its employees.

ponies and rainbows, I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences with men. I try to take up no more than my "fair share" of space on the subway and make room for others, male or female.

I don't think it's fair to say I was "so angry" with this woman -- I was just made really uncomfortable. And no matter how wide an average-sized guy spreads his legs, there is no way he could take up as much space as this woman.

Taina, the additional costs of transporting obese passengers have to be paid by those passengers, or get passed along to the non-fat ones. It's the latter, not the former, that strikes me as hardly fair.

I do agree with oenophile and erin about body-based sexism.

There's an actual technical reason for making an obese person pay for two seats, believe it or not. It's not just "the people who run airlines are assholes." They pro-rate the amount of fuel to take on board (it's one of these JIT cost-saving, efficiency-optimising measures), and I believe the weight they average at is about 175lbs. A person who is 400 lbs in one seat is throwing that average way off.

The flight crew doesn't really have a lot of discretion about this; what amount of fuel they get is basically set by regulation and company policy. If you're complaining about the two-seats policy, that's the angle you should be taking, on the grounds that you'll sound like you know what you're talking about.

My dad was a commercial pilot from 1979 until this year, when he retired. I got a lot of insight into commercial aviation from his talking shop at the dinner table.

There are not, however, reasons why women in short skirts and tank tops may be cabin safety hazards.

*continues thread derailment*

Yeah, I try to avoid sitting next to men on public transport if I can help it, because of the "phantom penis" syndrome.

I've paid the same fare as you, now let me have my half of the seat!

Recently I experienced the phenomenon to the point that I had to "accidently" shove the guy with my elbow several times. So passive-aggressive, I know.
It just sucks. Why oh why do they sit with their legs so far apart? I swear, the next guy who takes up MY space is going to get an earful!

Phantom Penis Syndrome! i'm so glad i'm not the only one who has noticed this phenomenon. I find it incredibly annoying. My boyfriend/male relatives even do it just sitting on the couch, in a recliner, etc. Aghghgh. Kind of icky too.
As far as the whole 2 seat debate... I don't know, I kind of thing it might have to do with passenger safety as well, mightn't it? I mean i would feel safer in a smaller, more aerodynamic, less weighted down plane than one with La-Z-boys in it and lots of heavy people. Let's not forget, most heavy people (we're talking 400 pounds as someone had mentioned earlier, the kind that would require 2 seats) have to have, at some level, responsibility for being obese. Obviously they are people, who deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, but going so far as to cater to the growing obese population I'm not sure is quite the answer. There has to be some compromise, some other way.

Misogyny at its finest, if a bitter man can't lay an attractive women, he can at least ruin her day.

It is airing out the ball-sack ... has nothing to do with the weenus at all. But obv. it is rude to invade someone's personal space or room.

Airing out the ball-sack? I've never felt the need to invade someone else's personal space by airing out my cooch on a hot day, but we women aren't socialized to feel entitled to public space. But you know, maybe Ms. Ebbert HAD to wear a short skirt in order to air out her privates.

Exactly SarahMC!

If we're going to get technical, I'm sure my ladyparts require good ventilation to be happy and healthy, so maybe I'll start sitting with my legs as far apart as possible on the bus.

If anyone asks me to move, I'll just say "Gotta keep the air circulating, if you now what I mean."
Then I'll wink.
That oughta do it.

It's not like men spread 'em wide only during the hot months. They do it all the time. They do it in air-conditioned settings. Airing out the ball-sack, my ball-sack.
Women breastfeeding, INDECENT!
Women exposing thigh, IMMORAL!
Men airing out ball-sacks, they gotta do what they gotta do.

sorry, but giant obese passengers should pay double. the seats should also be bigger, but in no way should they be the size that can accomodate 400 or 500 pounds. lose some freaking weight. because you know what i ALWAYS get stuck next to those people and i end up with half my seat and they have a seat and a half. its not fair, and i wish people would stop making excuses for horrendous, disgusting eating habits. i am not talking about how people should be one weight and only one thing is beautiful, i am talking about people who are dangerous to themselves and uncomfortable and rude to others.
that being said, what is offensive about that outfit? i just dont get it. so ridiculous. probably wouldnt have happened in nyc or something.

as i noted, i wasn't justifying ... just explaining ... has nothing to do with heat or any "phantom penis syndrome" ... but a true gentleman knows the comfort of his ball-sack does not justify invading someone else's personal space... and the whole thing with the 23-year-old just ridiculous ... ppl should be mad ...

OMG! kave barney, I totally forgot about the children. Save the Children! Save the Children! They might see my upper thigh and...and..what? See upper thigh?
No, it's obviously the OCULAR BLEEDING that occurs when children catch a glimpse of skin. Terrible thing. kave barney is going to do a telethon.

Katie,

Why would you assume that fat people have "horrendous, disgusting eating habits"?? What kind of stereotyping is that? Are there fat people who have gained that weight due to their own habits? Yes. But there are also people who are very fat due to medical issues. There are also fat people who have dieted themselves up to a high weight...trying to "lose some freaking weight."

That being said, the most uncomfortable flight I've ever had (on Southwest, no less) was while sitting next to a thin man. This man was thin, but he was extremely tall and WIDE. He was just built that way. His body structure was wide and I ended up with half my body hanging out into the aisle. I was so uncomfortable...it was awful!

Being a fat woman myself, I'm always very concious of being unobtrusive in situations like seating capacity. I do my best to take up as little room as possible, going so far as to be very uncomfortable and tense for the entire flight so I don't disturbe anyone beside me.

If they're going to make me pay for two seats for being fat, then they better make that thin, wide guy pay for two seats as well. And that's the issue here. It's only about fat people...those are the only ones they discriminate against. When they start evaluating the skeletal structure of ALL who board their planes, then I'll change my mind about their policy.

Saw Ann on CNN.com! Woo hoo!

May I just plead with everyone, as a long-time reader of this and other feminist blogs, to consider that someone who *surreptitiously* takes a photo of an obese woman without her knowledge, and subsequently links to said photo on the Internet, on a feminist blog no less, is really not here for honest reasons (i.e., to learn, to discuss feminist issues with an open mind). This is some smug punk here for his own amusement, who will vacillate between "thoughtful" (but not really) comments and sarcastic comments, with some graphic provocative comments (ball-sacks? hello?), as well as condescending minimizing comments (*I'm sorry to hear you've had bad experiences with men*) thrown in for good measure. As the unparalleled Donna Darko would say, please do not feed this troll. He is here for his own amusement only. Frankly I am surprised the moderators of this blog would not notice someone posting to a Flikr photo of a woman taken without her knowledge and taken with the intent of mocking her later. That's pretty sad.

Furthermore, since I did look at the photo out of morbid curiosity, I am guessing from alaric's appearance that he is on the young side, or at least, is not a veteran of the Vietnam war. That struck me, given how passionately he was discussing the unfairness of Vietnam and the draft of that time in a previous thread. May I suggest, as someone who works on behalf of veterans' rights, that people like alaric refrain from co-opting and exploiting the painful experiences of actual Vietnam war veterans (or speaking authoritatively about them when in actual fact you have not the first clue) for their own mirth. It is a sign of deeply flawed character to co-opt Vietnam veterans' experiences to play devil's advocate on a blog for one's own amusement.

The CNN headline: "Hooters gal told outfit too skimpy to fly"

Because someone's place of employment is a defining characteristic of their being. It just sends all the wrong messages... It encourages people to watch the video to see what the "Hooters gal" is wearing and exactly how skimpy it is, as opposed to honest outrage or concern over the issue.

I don't know, I hate the use of the word "gal" so much that the headline just screams sexism to me.

I'll bet we'll never see a headline that reads: "Misogynist Charged With Rape," because it would be biased. But I guess it's okay to use the word "gal," huh?

I say KUDOS to Keith the flight attendant for speaking up and letting this young lady know her outfit was too revealing and not modest. Kyla shouldn't have left home wearing such an outfit.
It's too revealing and not modest. Us ladies need to remember that when we wear clothing that is not modest we can cause others to sin. When we meet God, we will be accountable for this. It's the truth, people. Again kudos to Keith and shame on Kyla!

May God Bless us all.
Maria

oh, cute. well, I always knew Southwest sucked; that's just one more reason. maybe they'll finally go under one of these days...

Listen to what Kyla Ebbert's MOM had to say about her (from the San Dieto Union-Tribune): “My daughter is young, tall, blond and beautiful,� Michele Ebbert told me, “and she is both envied and complimented on her appearance. She dresses provocatively, as do 99 percent of 23-year-old girls who can. But they were out of line.�

Obviously, the apple didn't fall far from the tree here!!!

Her mom approves of her walking around with her legs and chest exposed to public view - and is livid that an airline told her that she was not dressed appropriately to be on their aircraft.

And most of the posters here agree with the Ebberts, that a woman has a "right" to expose herself in a sexualized way in public!

That's a truly odd sort of feminism!!!

Gregory: Don't talk to me about feminism. If you think what you are advocating is feminist you have some reading to do.

Yeah, advocating that women be allowed to make their own choices rather than being talked down to and told what to do with themselves. What an odd sort of feminism it is! Oh, no, wait, that's exactly what feminism is supposed to be. Where's the odd part, again?

Mariainmass,

Hon, did you stumble into the wrong blog? First of all, she had the right to wear what she wanted. She wasn't showing anything but leg. Secondly, I don't believe in sin. Thirdly, I'm sure as hell not a "lady." I'm a woman and all that entails.

Thanks.

I highly recommend that the folks that commented on the legality and mechanics of Southwest's Q&A regarding their "Customers of Size" policy at: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html

Important points: SWA defines a COS as someone who cannot lower the armrest between the seats and/or compromises any portion of the adjacent seat. A "thin but wide" person could very well be a COS.

Also, when a COS pays for an additional seat, if the flight does not oversell, they can request a refund for that additional seat after travel.

I have heard from at least one COS that they actually like SWA's COS policy. They told me that it was easy to book two seats for one customer with SWA, unlike on other airlines. By doing it in advance, they avoid any potential awkwardness when boarding and they frequently received refunds for the second seat. And even when they had to pay for both seats, two seats on SWA was typically less expensive than one seat on another carrier -- and far more comfortable.

Finally, I wonder how many of the comments above swearing off flying SWA because of their COS policy would actually be affected by it?

SWA certainly has its detractors but I firmly believe that it does a lot more right than wrong (with Keith and Kyla falling into the latter category). My family has always had good experiences with them. Their employees have always seemed happy and customer oriented to us. They have an amazing profit record. And they manage to do this without having dumped the responsibility of their pension plan onto taxpayers like a couple of other carriers have.

she can wear an outfit anytime she wants and ill fly her for free...

Airline employees make up rules on the spot all the time. I've taken to printing out a copy of the contract of carriage before flying, then when a flight attendant or gate agent decides to be "innovative," I can ask them to show me the rule they are citing.

Charity, Charity, Charity...

I certainly never claimed, implied, or suggested that I was around during the Vietnam draft. (Were all the women here around for the historic stuff they rail against? Does a woman have to be raped to rail against rape?).

It's a very dishonest suggestion on your part to suggest I was co-opting or whatever the experience of Vietnam veterans. My point was just about the conscription of men in general, although I did use Vietnam as a specific example. It is a sign of deeply flawed character on your part to so terribly distort what I was saying.

Re: ball-sacks, y'know, that's just male anatomy. I'm sorry if you are so anti-male that that makes you uncomfortable. I don't think it's any more offensive than this so-called "phantom penis syndrome" which is just silly (and mildly anti-male, with no basis in reality).

Also, I just want to note for the record that the photo of the obese woman just shows her arm. There's nothing at all in it that could identify her.

To me, this is a clear case of harrassment...and possibly even sexual harrassment.

Kyla Ebbert was doing nothing wrong, nor was she wearing anything that would be considered threatening...unless you consider a flash of leg or cleavage threatening to your concept of "modesty".

Yet, she was targeted for such harrassment in a way that no other woman or man would be...simply due to her choice of dress.

BTW...you may not have heard, but the Southwest Airlines Slut Police has struck again:

http://www.nbc6.net/news/14090043/detail.html

Anthony

wow. what a SKANK.

its one thing to have freedom of choice,
but what about the other passengers on the flight? I have a right NOT to see that.

i dont want to see her c*nt or tits on MY flight, and obviously you can from that skirt. so THANKS SOUTHWEST!

Did anyone else note the striking resemblance to Ann Coulter? ;-)

But to those who object to a woman showing a little leg, PUT THE BLANKET OVER YOUR EYES! While her outfit might have been considered indecent in the 1950's, I don't think we're in the fifties anymore, Toto. (Leastwise, I hope not. Grew up then. Sucked.)

Holy balls. Nice influx of anti-feminists we got here.

Mariainmass, if *my* immodesty (how do you define that, anyway?) "causes" someone else to "sin," who's to blame when a man rapes or assaults a woman wearing long pants and a winter coat? Or a fully-covered woman in the Middle East, for that matter? Or are you under the impression that fully-covered women are never victimized by entitled men?

And fuck you, lg123. What photo are you looking at? I don't see her "cunt" or tits. I see her chest and legs. What's indecent about a woman's chest and/or legs? What's indecent about a woman's ENTIRE FUCKING BREAST, for that matter? Check your attitude about women's bodies. And your use of derogatory language.
Love how you consider any flight you're on YOUR flight. Maybe some other folks find your appearance offensive on THEIR flights - ever think of that? Though most people aren't self-absorbed enough to complain or whine about such a thing.

Wow...

I have to say I don't think I've seen this many trolls on this site in one go before...

Seriously, legs are legs. You may find them sexy, but that doesn't give you the right to demand that women cover them up to save you from your own desires, any more than it gives you the right to demand that a woman take off her trousers so that you can enjoy the view.

Personally, I love bare backs on women, but if I saw a woman in a backless top I would neither consider her "slutty" nor would I presume I had the right to oggle her.

Foot enthusiasts don't run around demanding that women wear only sensible, fully-covering shoes.

But legs? Sinful, slutty and shameful. But only if we're talking about women, here.

(And don't tell me she's exposing her breasts- her top completely covers that woman's chest.)