How disappointing! :( I was looking forward to this title.

Batwoman is still a lesbian. She's appeared throughout 52, and she's still appearing in Countdown right now. That they axed her book isn't surprising or uncommon. It happens all the time in comics.

I thought she went for older men.

On a completely unrelated note, this may be the worst theme song of all time.

On an even more unrelated note, I think Yvonne Craig also played the green alien seductress in that Star Trek episode.

Back on topic: what about the incipient relationship of Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn?

Huh. Imagine if they made superman gay. That would roil up the fundies.

The new Batwoman is certainly a lesbian. However, thus far, she isn't an interesting character. Her only appearances have been as a supporting character to Renee Montoya (the new Question), and she hasn't been developed beyond the fact that she's a closeted lesbian socialite who used to date Montoya.

Which is to say, it's not surprising at all that DC doesn't feel that there's sufficient demand to support a Batwoman solo book.

She has been featured with Montoya in Countdown, the big DC weekly comic this year. As far as I know, she'll also be supporting Montoya in the new Crime Bible series. Hopefully she'll be developed a bit better when she's one of two protagonists in a series, rather than a supporting character in a subplot.

No homophobic conspiracy here.

"Huh. Imagine if they made superman gay. That would roil up the fundies."

The fundies, Superman fans, and liberals who don't think homosexuality should be deployed in fiction for pure shock value.

roymac's right, as far as I know she's still gay. I haven't read countdown, but throughout last year's weekly comic 52 she was a lesbian. There might still be a chance that they'll give the character her own series they wrap up Countdown, but I'd guess it'll depend on how popular DC editorial perceives her to be with the readers.

Her backstory is that she's a rich vigilante who used to be involved with Detective Renee Montoya, DC's most prominent lesbian character and star of the now defunct comic Gotham Central.

Which, by the way, was a fucking great comic. Old fashioned hardcore crime noir set in Batman's Gotham city. Yes I'm a geek.

But gay superheroes are nothing new. In 1999, DC relesed "The Authority" under a different publishing house: they had two gay men who were seeing each other, and raising an adopted daughter - the midnighter and apollo (easily one of the most powerful characters in the world), and two (or three, depending on how you counted them) bisexual women (for titilation factor, no doubt).

So I fail to see the rukus, DC tested the waters for this eight years ago. And they were warm.

Would/is a lesbian catwoman potrayed in an egalitarian light? In other words, is it really an advance for the gay rights movement, or humanity for that matter, if DC roles out over-sexualized lesbian characters purely as entertainment? Does this not just further stereotypes of women as sexual objects?

I don't read many comics, and I'll admit I don't know anything about Catwoman, so this rant is not specifically about this character. But I am willing to bet that most bisexual and lesbians themes in comics are developed for the 'titilation factor,' as Andrew put it. If this is the case, this not progress; it is the reproduction of some of the more pernicious stereotypes that we see in pop culture all the time.

I was already pissed off at DC for taking the previous Batgirl, Cassandra Cain, who had been a strong and interesting character learning to transcend her abusive past, and suddenly decided that she'd pitch a jealous fit over her daddy raising another girl and become a villainess. Grrrrr.

Well, part of the problem is that it's really hard to introduce a lesbian character in a mainstream comic without it becoming a big deal. Even if the creator doesn't necessarily want it to be for titilation, comic coverage makes it so.

?

Why rewrite someone else's characters instead of making up new ones? Is this supposed to be a parody a la The Wind Done Gone or something?

I'm totally confused. I am no comic book expert (not even close) but that's Batgirl, isn't it? I though Batwoman was a different character. Is she just a more mature Batgirl?

Mina:

Heh. Well, the truth of it is that the majority of the mainstream comic book audience doesn't really want that much change in their precious superhero books. They want the same characters they've grown up with, and the same tired formulaic stories that they're used to, but just in slightly different packaging.

That's why there have been four or five different Batgirls and Robins over the years, but the characters never really grow old or die. That would be too interesting, and therefore too risky to the publisher's monthly profits.

Luckily there are a lot of great, original comics out there in a diverse range of genres which are really pushing the boundaries of the medium, but the sad fact is that they don't make nearly as much money for the publishers as stuff like Superman or Batman do.

It's all about maintaining the status quo while creating the illusion of change, and keeping that money pouring in.

Batwoman is still a lesbian, just a minor character in the major scheme of 52 and countdown. As already pointed out, she'll have more page time in the book with the new Question, but my live-in comic expert doesn't know when that comes out or even if there will be demand. Batgirl was evil, but turns out she was under the influence of mind altering drugs, courtesy Slade, but whether she becomes a good girl again or resumes lead over the League of Assassins, I couldn't tell you.

My biggest gripe is that other than Pied Piper, I can't think of any gay male comic characters. There's plenty of lesbians and bi-women but almost no gay/bi men. Which makes me think gay is ok as long as you're a hot chick, but still icky if you're a dude.

"Heh. Well, the truth of it is that the majority of the mainstream comic book audience doesn't really want that much change in their precious superhero books. They want the same characters they've grown up with, and the same tired formulaic stories that they're used to, but just in slightly different packaging."

Yeah, I got that impression. What I don't get is the writers and readers who do want innovation but who want it in those series.

I mean, when Alexander McCall Smith wanted to write mystery novels about a Motswana* detective, he made up the character Precious Ramotswe. He didn't bother making Miss Marple Motswana.

"My biggest gripe is that other than Pied Piper, I can't think of any gay male comic characters. There's plenty of lesbians and bi-women but almost no gay/bi men."

What about yaoi manga?

* the adjective is Motswana instead of Botswanan or Botswanese, right?

Mina-

Ah, I think I get what you're saying.

In the case of the new Batwoman, at least, I believe it wasn't so much that a writer wanted to write a book about a lesbian Batwoman as much as it was DC editorial being in the middle of a big continuity revision and saying "Hey, we need a new Batwoman. We know we can make some money off the character, but the fans are kind of tired of her right now... Wait, I know what to do! Let's make her gay! That'd be CRAZY!"

Which, you know, I suppose is all well and good as long as they put some effort into developing the character and don't just make her a two dimensional stereotype. But I digress.

I'd guess the problem with getting an entirely original and innovative concept off the ground in mainstream superhero comics is that unless the writer in question is very popular and respected, the company probably won't want to risk putting money into it. Sucks, but it's true.

And as far as gay male comic book characters go, there have been some. But probably not nearly enough.

In the early nineties Marvel had Northstar, the gay French-Canadian hero from Alpha Flight. I think he's still around. Somebody already mentioned Apollo and the Midnighter.

There's a pretty cool mini-series by Peter David titled The Enigma, which was focused on a guy who falls in love with a gay superhero.

And there was the much maligned gay cowboy miniseries Rawhide Kid that Marvel put out a few years ago.

Oh, and I almost forgot Hulkling and Wiccan from the Young Avengers.

As far as American comics go, that's about all I can come up with right now. And yes, again, I am a total geek. I really shouldn't know all this shit.

Other gay/bi heroes (and heroines), including alternate realties:

Jenny Sparks (The Authority)
Swift (The Authority)
Rainmaker (Gen13)
Colossus (Ultimate X-Men)
Archangel (1602)
Invisible Kid (Legion of Super-Heroes)

Also!
Hulkling, Wiccan(Young Avengers)
Karolina Dean, Xavin[?](Runaways)
Phat, Bloke, Vivisector(X-Statix)

Let me amend my comments then. Marvel seems to have a more open mind, but DC, which is what my expert reads, doesn't seem so equal opportunity. And he definitely doesn't read Manga or Marvel, but I did assume too much based on the DC Universe. So, my above comments should read as criticizing DC specifically and not all comics. Sorry about that.

I'd guess that the Batwoman book getting the ax had less to do with the character being gay and more to do with DC getting increasingly risk-averse as it loses more and more market share. Another monthly book with "bat" in the title for a relatively minor character who has virtually no chance of being turned into a movie had to make the higher-ups at DC nervous.

Besides, not to be too cynical, but its probably for the best. Being DC she'd probably just end up in a refrigerator, get raped, or be killed off to give Batman a reason to be more "edgy."

Multiple points:
1)DC also has Grace and Thunder in Outsiders (lesbian couple), Obsidian (male--and gay, I believe), Metropolis cop Maggie Sawyer and Kyle Rainer's buddy who got beaten up for it.
Pied Piper I believe was the first definitely gay character at either DC or Marvel (at the time he was a reformed villain, though he's fallen off the wagon in a recent stupid plotline).
And it would be a strain to argue Marvel's more open-minded. The Rawhide Kid story was an embarrassment--if they hadn't announced he was gay, I'd have been wondering why they had a cowboy who seemed so obsessed with fashion.
2)While it's true DC has had gay characters well before Batwoman, Grayson's thinking (read an interview recently) was that to make any real impression on people, a gay character needs to be high-profile in a way only figures such as Superman or Batman are--and retconning them gay would obviously never happen. So creating a gay Batwoman seemed as close as possible to putting a gay character in the big leagues.
And in fairness, her appearances in 52 hardly say anything about what she'd have been like if she had won her own book.
3)No, Batwoman isn't Batgirl. The Yvonne Craig Batgirl (now Oracle) was the daughter of Commissioner Gordon; the original Batwoman was Kathy Kane, circus acrobat who inherited a fortune from a distant relative and decided to follow in Batman's footsteps (seeing him as a fellow acrobat using his skills for higher things). In the fifties and early sixties, she was his chief romantic interest (when they did imaginary stories where he got married, it was always Kathy, not Vicki Vale or Catwoman), then she was dropped from the book, showed up a couple of times in the seventies, then murdered and forgotten (and having been completely retconned out of continuity, creating a new gay Batwoman is a relatively simple thing).
Her niece became Batgirl for a while, too, but no relation to the Babs Gordon version.

In the case of the new Batwoman, at least, I believe it wasn't so much that a writer wanted to write a book about a lesbian Batwoman as much as it was DC editorial being in the middle of a big continuity revision and saying "Hey, we need a new Batwoman. We know we can make some money off the character, but the fans are kind of tired of her right now... Wait, I know what to do! Let's make her gay! That'd be CRAZY!"

I strongly suspect that's not exactly how it went down. Batwoman hasn't appeared in the comics in decades, so it's not like the fans were tired of her or they needed a new one. As far as her being a lesbian goes, I'd guess that's more about the original than about being edgy (although I suspect that didn't hurt, either). The original Batwoman was the target of not infrequent speculation that she was, in fact, a lesbian (just like Batman was frequently speculated to be gay). They wrote her as being interested in Batman to throw off those rumors, but now, decades later, they thought they'd run with it, instead.

And as far as gay male comic book characters go, there have been some. But probably not nearly enough.

That's true, but I reiterate- a lot of it has to do with the way that publicity works. If they make a character gay then the reaction tends to be mixed. You get some people who think it's great, but you also face backlash from people who think it's disgusting, and from the press who make it a big deal. In which case you run the risk of being accused of tokenism. Nevermind that all of the straight characters get to be openly straight.

Yeah, I hear you roymac. I was kind of lumping Batwoman and Batgirl together there since I knew they'd recently gotten rid of Batgirl and they seem to tend to have one or the other at a time.

And I'd have to agree that it was probably at least as much about just being original as it was about being edgy when they decided to go with a lesbian Batwoman.

I believe Grant Morrison might even have had a hand in that bit of brain-storming since it came about during 52, and he's one of my favorite writers in any medium.

I agree with your points about gay male characters too. I mentioned Northstar, but I neglected to bring up the backlash surrounding the character coming out in the 90s or the way that they subsequently downplayed his sexuality for years afterwards.

I remember the same kind of reaction around Rawhide Kid, despite the fact that the most offensive thing about that book was that it was totally boring and trite.

And God, I'm pretty embarrassed looking at the length of my last ramble-y post. Time to get off the computer for a few days.

Daniel, I agree GrantMorrison is fabulous, but Geoff Johns wrote 52.

roymac, there was no "frequent speculation" about Batman,there was only the anti-comics twit Frederic Wertham asserting that Batman and Robin were obviously living a homosexual lifestyle. As for Batwoman, she was written as being interested in Batman from the first appearance, so there's no way it was written in to kill rumors of lesbianism (where would they come from when the character wasn't even created yet?). Like I said above, she was always presented as a potential Big Romance (one retcon interpretation is that the reason Batman initially opposed her fighting crime is that as a female super-hero she had the best shot at piercing the walls he's had around him since his parents' death, with none of the criminal baggage Catwoman had) for the Caped Crusader

Shadow32

Actually 52 was written by Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, and Mark Waid.