I'm confused.

Are they saying that having a heterosexual affair makes one an unfit parent?

Isn't that, you know.. like, half of Spain? Sheesh. Talk about hypocrisy.

Not only is this extremely stupid, but it might be against some sort of European Union policy.

I'm not sure, I don't know much about the European Union's policies, yet. Does anyone here know?

Yep, apparently good parents never act on their sex drives. It is confusing--wouldn't taking up with a man be engaging in a heterosexual affair?

Because clearly, how a parent chooses to conduct her sex life with other consenting adults has everything to do with how she mothers her child. It's exactly the same thing as drug addiction and child abuse!

In the E.U, you cannot discriminate against anyone based on age, gender, sexual orientation, race, disability, etc. Like every other civilised region in the world.

I don't know how these laws affect child custody cases. There could be a loophole. But it sounds like we'll be hearing of this ruling being overturned in a before long.

I don't know, Andrew--are you considering the US a civilized region? Because Florida won't let gay parents adopt, using pretty much the exact same reasoning. A lot of places we might otherwise consider civilized don't have protection against discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Because I use that turn of phrase a lot myself, I'm fairly sure that what Andrew is saying is that the US is not a civilized region. At least, that's usually what I mean when I say things like that.

The idea that a homosexual parent would cause their child to be homosexual (like that's a bad thing?) is odd because, while I don't have any imperical data on this, I'm pretty sure that every gay person in the world is the product of a heterosexual relationship. It would seem to me that heterosexual parents, statistcally speaking, are far more likely to raise a homosexual child.

Of course, I'm not a family court judge in Spain, so what do I know?

Sam -- you're using that blasted logic! You should know that doesn't fly in these courtrooms! ;)

i find it odd that the judge thinks increasing the chance of the girls becoming lesbians is a -bad- thing. Regardless if it's true or not, it shouldn't even matter. There's nothing wrong with being gay or straight.

Well, except for that this judge apparently thinks homosexuality is just like satan worship, prostitution and child abuse.

::rolls eyes::

"The idea that a homosexual parent would cause their child to be homosexual (like that's a bad thing?) is odd because, while I don't have any imperical data on this, I'm pretty sure that every gay person in the world is the product of a heterosexual relationship."

Not all people who are the products of heterosexual *relationships* are the products of two heterosexual parents, of course. But I agree that the evidence would suggest that the sexuality of the parents doesn't determine that of the child.

Of course, that's not the real error of the opinion--the real problem is that the Court thinks that if a child raised by a gay couple is more likely to be gay, that's a reason to deny that couple custody of the child. Which gets sicker the more you think about it. I had a professor in law school who pointed out that what this reasoning really points to is the desire to wipe out gay people entirely.

I'd also like point out, slightly off-topic, that unless the Satanic worship in question involves child abuse or something else equally harmful, there's no reason why Satan-worshipers shouldn't get to raise their kids either.

Actualy thistle and EG, like a fool I assumed the U.S was civilised and would not take a child off their parents based on the parents latent sexuality.

Because, ya' know...

Logic, Humanity, Compassion.

Tsk. The hairbrained ideas I get into my head!

By the way, has anyone heard of an equevelent case anywhere else? I know gay parents can't adopt, but to have a child taken from them after the "changed" the sexuality?

There are numerous cases here in the US, sadly. The most egregious one I recall involved a judge awarded custody of children to the kids' rapist/wife-abusing father because the mother was a lesbian. I don't have a citation for that, but you might want to poke around the websites of groups like GLAAD or the HRC.

Being a lesbian parent = child abuse???

So fucking infuriating.

I think in twenty, thirty years, people will look at this stuff the way we currently look at past displays of egregious discrimination: with horror.

"What? People in 2007 actually took children away from their parents because they were homosexual??" "People compared being gay with being a drug addict??" "People thought homosexuality was a DISEASE??!".

...And I really, really wish we were there now.

Wait -- isn't Spain one of the countries that allows same-sex marriage?

I know they were at least considering it a couple of years ago, and it pissed off the church.

So are they taking children away from homes that practice "Satanism" or whatever religion they consider evil? Not that Satanists worship Satan. But that's probably what these idiots think. Personally, I think fundamentalist Christianity is harmful to children. Definitely more damaging than being raised by a gay man or lesbian. Ugh I can't wrap my mind around this.

"Are they saying that having a heterosexual affair makes one an unfit parent?"

Maybe what he has in mind is less "affair" than "arranged marriage"?

So are they taking children away from homes that practice "Satanism" or whatever religion they consider evil? Not that Satanists worship Satan. But that's probably what these idiots think. Personally, I think fundamentalist Christianity is harmful to children. Definitely more damaging than being raised by a gay man or lesbian. Ugh I can't wrap my mind around this.
Well, this is Spain, the home of the Inquisition...

I don't know enough to judge whether this is true, but a commenter over at Dispatches from the Culture Wars says this judge has been disbarred.

"I don't know enough to judge whether this is true, but a commenter over at Dispatches from the Culture Wars says this judge has been disbarred."

Yeah, the judge got owned. The link is in Spanish but as I live in California, I speak/read Spanish (http://tinyurl.com/2q9tu6). Now onto disbarring the asshole that banned the word "rape" from a rape trial.

"Well, this is Spain, the home of the Inquisition..."

You mean this Inquisition? http://tinyurl.com/uf3jt

I just realized I also fail massively for being on this site at 2 AM. I really need to take up some sort of vice.

There are numerous cases here in the US, sadly. The most egregious one I recall involved a judge awarded custody of children to the kids' rapist/wife-abusing father because the mother was a lesbian. I don't have a citation for that, but you might want to poke around the websites of groups like GLAAD or the HRC.

Ugh. That just replaced the whale in my nightmares. Before you mentioned that case, the worst I could come up with was the gay foster dads in Florida who have been raising a half dozen kids on the state's behalf. The couple went to nursing school together, and that's how they met each other and the kids. There was no one else to take these infants, and the state pled with them to take the kids. So they did, one even quit his job to be a stay at home dad. One of their boys is now 14 yo, and no longer tests as HIV positive. Because of this, he's theoretically eligible for adoption. But they won't let Roger and Steve adopt him, even though they're the only parents he's ever known. Eurgh.

Homophobia is bullshit on it's own, but just in general, parents ought to be allowed to do things as long as they don't interfere with being good parents, including, for the judge's information, being openly gay, a prostitute, or a Satanist. In democracies, the state doesn't decide who gets to raise children. They only get to intervene when a child is placed into danger.

Not that it matters, but, studies have shown that children raised in gay households were no more likely to be gay than those raised in heterosexual households.

The Disciplinary commission of the General Council of the Judicial Power (CGPJ) had unanimously decided to open a file for serious offense of article 418,6 of the Statutory law of the Judicial Power for his judgment of a family from Murcia. Judge Fernando Ferrín Lodestone’s ruling granted the safekeeping of two children to the father because the mother maintained a homosexual (lesbian) relationship. An instructor judge has been named who will take over case and will propose a sanction.
(Source: El País, 07/25/07; Approximate translation)
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/CGPJ/expedienta/juez/Murcia/retiro/madre/custodia/hijas/ser/lesbiana/elpepuesp/20070725elpepunac_9/Tes

You mean this Inquisition? http://tinyurl.com/uf3jt
While that Inquisition is funny, I like the one in Good Omens better. Strapping preschoolers to boards, then dipping their feet into ponds & saying "chilli con carne" is pretty funny.

Oh! But it makes perfect sense! A child with gay parents will become gay themselves! Because of course we all know that heterosexual parents NEVER have children who are homosexual, right? He should just come right out and say it...that he hates homosexuals because his "Christian" God supposedly hates them. When I read stuff like this, I always think back to what Ghandi once said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

This is just appalling to me. These people will argue that the best situation for a child is to be raised by two loving parents, but in this case one of the loving parents doesn't qualify? I say bullshit.

After my parents got divorced, my dad came out. I lived with my dad after that and for most of the time his partner lived with us. He was, and still is, one of the best parents anyone could ask for, and I can't imagine not having been able to live with him just because of his sexual orientation.
And for the record, it didn't make me gay; it just made me open minded.

Clearly this man is truly repressed. He isn't even a big enough fan of porn to think more lesbians would be a good, and very hot, thing.

I jest, of course. He's just a bigoted shit.

I live in Murcia, just for the record. I heard it in TV, not only the judge is being 'revised', they actually said they were considering if he had mental issues, given his desition runs contrary to law.

I wonder, does this judge in the UK that recently decided that a 12 year old was asking for rape because she 'looked like 16' will face anything like the spanish judge? 'Cause, if he can think so, he has mental issues.

I don't know enough to judge whether this is true, but a commenter over at Dispatches from the Culture Wars says this judge has been disbarred.

Actually, the document published by the Ministry of Justice (http://www.poderjudicial.es/eversuite/GetRecords?Template=cgpj/cgpj/pjexaminarnota.html&TableName=PJNOTAS&dkey=78) just states that a case has been opened against the judge:

En relación con las informaciones aparecidas sobre un Auto de Medidas Provisionales dictado por el Juzgado de Primera Instancia número 9 de Murcia, especializado en familia, este Consejo informa que, a raíz de la queja formulada por un letrado, el Presidente del Tribunal Superior de Justicia de Murcia abrió un expediente gubernativo, que remitió posteriormente al Servicio de Inspección del Consejo General del Poder Judicial, donde procedió a incoarse una Información Previa, que se encuentra en fase de tramitación.
With regard to the information that has appeared concerning a Preliminary Order entered by the District Court No. 9 of Murcia, this Council reports that, in response to a complaint filed by an attorney, the Presiding Judge of the Superior Court of Murcia opened a disciplinary file, which was then submitted to the Inspection Service of the General Judiciary Council, where a Preliminary Investigation was initiated and is still in course.

One correction to my translation above. I left out a couple of words in there. It should read: ...District Court No. 9 of Murcia, specialised in domestic relations...

Those specialised courts are barely three years old - they are still trying to figure why they don't work.

But till very recently, violence against woman was kept invisible in the media.

This would be equally infuriating, but significantly less baffling, if Spain were not a country in which same-sex marriage had been legalized.