We'll just say this once more, slowly: If a man gets an erection while looking at a woman, it is not because the woman chose to give it to him. So stop fucking blaming us for it, already! Seriously, guys--if you don't have any control over what your penis does, why on earth would you think we do? Sheesh.

Obligatory joke:
By any chance was the bus driver's surname Althouse?

what the fuck. that's just damn ridiculous. He was getting off on seeing a woman's boobs, couldn't force himself to do his JOB and now he's blaming the woman? So I guess women with awesome breasts will be forced to sit at the back of the bus?

Wow - so women who dare go in public revealing any cleavage will be banished to the bus so to not cause the pig of a bus driver any distractions. Do you think that would hold up in court if there was an accident with the bus? I bet the woman would've been blamed somehow. I mean, after all, men can't help themselves. *rolls eyes*

If Matthew McConnaughey walked onto a bus shirtless, would a female bus driver be justified in kicking him off the bus because she couldn't help but stare at his chiseled physique?

The (un)common sense answer here is to just don't look.

Does mean that if we all flash our boobs as Bush at a crucial moment he will be rendered incapable of ""running the country""?

I've been distracted by women's racks (and faces, legs and asses, etc) at work before, but never to the point where I couldn't do my job and certainly not to the point where I made a spectacle of myself.

Seriously, guys--if you don't have any control over what your penis does, why on earth would you think we do? Sheesh.

In point of fact, we have almost no control over where, when and why we get boners. It's Biology 101. If we could control our woodies, we could save ourselves a lot of embarassment. What we can control is how we act when we get them, and this wanker stopping a bus full of passengers to harangue a girl because her knockers gave him a chubby (and in doing so, announcing to the whole world what a total perv he is) doesn't cut it.

The guy is an asshole, plain and simple.

Now, the driver shouldn't have flipped out, but I have to say I have some sympathy. Maybe he'd nearly just hit something. If this top was really low cut, I imagine it would be a distraction. It's hard for the eyes not to wander sometime, espically if it was filling the rear-view mirror.

If more men did wander around topless, do you really think there wouldn't be the occasional crash as a woman strained her neck around as she went past, then went straight into a lamp-post?

Oh, and the buses around where I live won't let shirtless people on, so that deals with that problem.

Does mean that if we all flash our boobs as Bush at a crucial moment he will be rendered incapable of ""running the country""?
--Bowlersized

Is THAT what happened?

Oh, seriously, fuck that guy. I'm glad that the woman went to the media. They should organize protests in the form of tons of women riding the buses one day in really low cut tops to show solidarity.

Azumanga, you clearly don't get it.

"If more men did wander around topless, do you really think there wouldn't be the occasional crash as a woman strained her neck around as she went past, then went straight into a lamp-post?"

Actually you would probably have more gay men doing that than women based on studies of the readership of Playgirl Magazine (with its nude male centerfold) that showed the majority of its buyers were gay men.

Maybe he'd nearly just hit something. If this top was really low cut, I imagine it would be a distraction. It's hard for the eyes not to wander sometime, espically if it was filling the rear-view mirror.

That's his problem, not hers. He's responsible for his actions. I don't care how low-cut her top was, it's his choice to be distracted by it or not. I find lots of things distracting, but, unless someone is actively touching me or doing something like shouting in my ear, it's my responsibility to focus and deal with what I'm doing.

If more men did wander around topless, do you really think there wouldn't be the occasional crash as a woman strained her neck around as she went past, then went straight into a lamp-post?

What kind of keystone cops world are you living in?

Seriously, if some guy can't control himself enough so that he doesn't turn around straining his neck while he's driving, he shouldn't be driving. Anyone who is so easily distracted by other people shouldn't be in control of a one-ton piece of machinary.

The bus driver is insane as is the bus company that supports him.

DallasSuz, that's silly. Women like half-dressed men just as much as men are attracted to half-dressed women. I don't think I'd walk into a lamp post or traffic, but I live in New York and NEVER see man cleavage so it would be novelty enough to turn my head. On the other hand, why is there so much female cleavage everywhere I turn? I can't even find a cute shirt that doesn't reveal my mammary glands these days. I'm not condemning cleavage, but why such a difference? Women spilling out and men confined in suits and slacks.

So not only did Mr. BusDriver prove that he doesnt have the concentration skills to do the job, he also proved he doesnt have the mental skills (and neither does the company), for being stupid enough to complain about it and embarrass that woman (and then backup the drivers decision). Now maybe this is just me talking, but if I was ever embarrassed for no reason to such a degree, the very least I would have to do is head butt the person responsible. In this case the driver.

Or I would have to exit the bus if I witnessed such a thing, and try to resist the urge to spit in the drivers face as I left. I think any driver that makes a claim like that is a danger to others, and if I had my way they would be fired and never allowed to drive again.

I like how "existing with boobs" translates to "being too sexy" in the article - it's not just the driver, but the reporter too! Thanks, journalism!

This sounds like the same convoluted, fucked-up logic they used in my high school when they were trying to pass a dress code. Y'know, if the young impressionable boys could see our shoulders or (*gasp*) bra straps, they would become so horny it would distract them from their studies and thus fail out of school. Because they can't control themselves and it's up to us to be sure we don't give up the goodies and distract the men.

No one ever mentioned the concept that guys being dressed a certain way might be distracting to girls, but believe you me, if I was interested in a guy there was nothing he could wear that would stop me from ogling him and being distracted in whatever class we shared.

I can't believe the company he works for stood behind him on this. Gross. Self-control, man, self-control. I've encountered plenty of attractive people in my job before, but I didn't give them back their merchandise and say, "Sorry sir, I can't ring you up because you're too attractive and I might lose my concentration, hit the wrong button, and accidently overcharge you."

We should take this story with a slight grain of salt. Bild-Zeitung is one of Germany's more notorious tabloids. They'll print damn near anything (if it includes breasts, so much the better).

Does mean that if we all flash our boobs as Bush at a crucial moment he will be rendered incapable of ""running the country""?

Um, Bowleserised, I think he was born incapable.

I'm kind of suspicious also. Given their penchant for posting Weekly World News articles unquestioned, Yahoo News isn't exactly the most reliable of sources.

But, the underlying attitude is very much real. As a guy, I honestly can't understand why any one would take this position. Not so much out of a sense of enlightment, but more because of my inner pig. I mean, if you enjoy looking at women's cleavage, why would you want to discourage them from showing it? Not only is it extremely sexist to blame women for arousing us, it isn't even in our best interest.

Exactly. The last thing I would do if a woman showed me an amazing set of boobs is fuss and complain. No, I'm pretty sure my response would be friendlier than that.

Fact check: several eons ago(twenty years) I was the articles editor of Playgirl magazine, and repeat studies always came back with the same (approximate) numbers: no more than a third of the readers were gay men.

So girls ogled the centerfolds by a two-thirds majority. But despite the good looking (sometimes shirtless) hunk parade through the office a staff top loaded with heterosexual women managed to get a magazine out every damn month.

In fact, we pitied the talent coordinator who screened centerfolds: choking levels of cologne polluted her office, and after she'd ask the prospective beefcake to remove their shirts for a Polaroid, she'd sometimes return to find they'd stripped down to Too Much Information.

True story, although I doubt the German equivalent of Weekly World News.

How much cleavage are we talking here?

Tch Jessica, you of all people should know it's not just guys who are distracted by boobage. ;)

"Y'know, if the young impressionable boys could see our shoulders or (*gasp*) bra straps, they would become so horny it would distract them from their studies and thus fail out of school."

I'm reminded of a story a friend told me: When they were having a similar debate at her school, a boy in her class declared that seeing bra straps was distracting, and the teacher snarkily retorted with, "Actually, I'd be more distracted if she were wearing a tank top and I couldn't see the bra strap."

Was the bus driver being sexually harassed?

In other words, does the bus driver have the right to work in an environment that is not sexualized?

For example, if a female bus driver was uncomfortable because there was a calendar of a woman with revealing breasts, or a male with very low cut jeans, or a passenger wearing revealing clothing, would she have the right to complain?

This may be off the beaten path, but apparently in a survey, 72 percent responded that they thought it was inappropriate to show women breastfeeding on tv. Apparently men and women can't handle any glimpses of cleavage.
Story here: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/Story?id=3378982&page=1

UCLA - what the?

Do you really think that the situation sounds like sexual harrassment of the bus driver? Because a woman with a low-cut top got on his bus? Really?

Your hypotheticals have nothing to do with the situation being discussed.

Despite being a heterosexual man for as long as I can remember I have yet to be distracted by breasts to the point of injury to myself or others. In fact on a day to day basis I encounter attractive women whom I manage to not ogle or even stare at.

Despite protests to the contrary, men are fully capable of controlling the place our eyes look.

I might just be stirring the pot...But I don't really understand the need for women to show gratuitous cleavage. When I'm going out, maybe a little, but on a bus in the middle of the day? I went to dinner with one of my friends the other night and her breasts were HANGING out of her shirt. I stared at them for the whole meal. SHe was complaining about men talking to her and all icould do was look at her chest and say "and you wonder why?". Men shouldnt be as asinine as this bus driver was, but I also think that it wouldnt hurt women to minimize the cleavage. Sometimes it happens, accidentally, but if not, the sole purpose of cleavage is to entice men. WOmen are not responsible for men being perverted, but as a separate issue, this women should probably do a little more to cover herself up. I'm not going to fight for her right to make it ok for the rest of us who work hard to be objectified.

I might just be stirring the pot...But I don't really understand the need for women to show gratuitous cleavage. When I'm going out, maybe a little, but on a bus in the middle of the day? I went to dinner with one of my friends the other night and her breasts were HANGING out of her shirt. I stared at them for the whole meal. SHe was complaining about men talking to her and all icould do was look at her chest and say "and you wonder why?". Men shouldnt be as asinine as this bus driver was, but I also think that it wouldnt hurt women to minimize the cleavage. Sometimes it happens, accidentally, but if not, the sole purpose of cleavage is to entice men. WOmen are not responsible for men being perverted, but as a separate issue, this women should probably do a little more to cover herself up. I'm not going to fight for her right to make it ok for the rest of us who work hard to be objectified.

I might just be stirring the pot...But I don't really understand the need for women to show gratuitous cleavage. When I'm going out, maybe a little, but on a bus in the middle of the day? I went to dinner with one of my friends the other night and her breasts were HANGING out of her shirt. I stared at them for the whole meal. SHe was complaining about men talking to her and all icould do was look at her chest and say "and you wonder why?". Men shouldnt be as asinine as this bus driver was, but I also think that it wouldnt hurt women to minimize the cleavage. Sometimes it happens, accidentally, but if not, the sole purpose of cleavage is to entice men. WOmen are not responsible for men being perverted, but as a separate issue, this women should probably do a little more to cover herself up. I'm not going to fight for her right to make it ok for the rest of us who work hard to be objectified.

Ugh, so sorry for the triple post.

Photo, and weird google translation here

Tell me, dirtybug, what, exactly, constitutes "gratuitous" cleavage? You running around with a tape measure, checking just how much cleavage it is OK to show?

I'm flat-chested, but even I know that if you have large boobs, it is impossible to wear a shirt lower-cut than a crew-neck without showing cleavage, and that very, very few women look good in a crew-neck. Why shouldn't a woman dress in a manner that is comfortable and attractive?

if not, the sole purpose of cleavage is to entice men.

Not, for instance, because it's the height of summer, and wearing high-necks is uncomfortable? Or because some of us are uncomfortable wearing anything close around our necks? Who made you the sole arbiter of Why Cleavage Exists?

this women should probably do a little more to cover herself up

Why? She's not hurting anyone. She likes the way she looks. The bus driver sexually harrassed her. He should have to change his ways, not she.

"I might just be stirring the pot...But I don't really understand the need for women to show gratuitous cleavage. When I'm going out, maybe a little, but on a bus in the middle of the day? I went to dinner with one of my friends the other night and her breasts were HANGING out of her shirt. I stared at them for the whole meal. SHe was complaining about men talking to her and all icould do was look at her chest and say "and you wonder why?". Men shouldnt be as asinine as this bus driver was, but I also think that it wouldnt hurt women to minimize the cleavage. Sometimes it happens, accidentally, but if not, the sole purpose of cleavage is to entice men. WOmen are not responsible for men being perverted, but as a separate issue, this women should probably do a little more to cover herself up. I'm not going to fight for her right to make it ok for the rest of us who work hard to be objectified."

Multiple objections to this, starting with the fact that it feels like you just rephrased the standard "she asked for it." In the photo in the article Derek posted, the woman is not "hanging out of her top" and even if she was, she's allowed to do so. There's no "need" for her to do so, but there's no need for her to wear a turtleneck either... although of course no one would complain about that. I often show off a lot of cleavage, often inadvertently since I have extremely big breasts. A lot of people find that distracting enough to stare at even if I DO wear a turtleneck. I'm not embarrassed to wear low cut tops, however, because I feel like I have attractive breasts and don't mind if other people look. I also sometimes wear purple eyeliner to show off my green eyes. Am I allowed to do that, or is it to enticing and distracting? Some women like to dress to show off their cleavage or other body parts because it makes them feel similarly attractive. Usually they are fully aware that someone is going to check them out, and it doesn't hurt anyone. If someone looks at me it's flattering, but it's also something THEY choose to do and have full control over. What the driver did was nasty, embarrassing and inappropriate. It wouldn't be ok for the bus driver to loudly tell someone to move because s/he was so "ugly that I can't concentrate," so it's not okay to tell someone they are so attractive one can't concentrate around them.

I'm also really offended that you implied that she "should" do more to cover herself up so that it doesn't affect you. Hate to break it to you, but it doesn't affect you. You aren't "objectified" because someone else decided to wear a top she liked. You're probably objectified in a thousand other ways by a million other people through out you're life. Do you really desperately want another one?

Finally...what are your opinions on women breastfeeding? Should they be allowed to do so in public, or should that be against the rules since the real "purpose" of breasts is to "entice men"? (Not to feed babies or anything. Breasts are special body parts magically endowed with extreme sexual powers, and people should be allowed to have bizarre and inappropriate actions when exposed to them.)

Just to respond toEG...

I dont think the woman should cover up because the man was distracted. No way, no how. my problem with her cleavage isnt because men are uncontrollably hormonal. It's more of an issue with women who flaunt cleavage unaccidentally. There's a fine line, certainly. I'm almost flat too and I know that a lower neck shirt on me is fine, but would look terribly provocative ona larger chested woman. But, i think there has to be a certain amount of care when dressing for your body type. I am very conscious of the way that I look when going to say, work. I think that care should extend to everyone, big or small, and that they should dress in a way that makes them look professional. I would take care to make myself look covered up given the weather, i think that that should extend to any woman, regardless of chest size. I'd rather have us have the choice, but I think we should be resposnsible with that choice. It's so hard for me to get respect working a corporate job, just b/c of the women who think getting ahead means showing a lot of skin.

To respond:

Im trying to get across the point that I'mn not arguing with womens' right to wear what they choose. Maybe it's my college years, but I dont think that a majority of the time, women are wearing what they want to wear b/c they want to wear it. I think it's almost always exclusively because of the way they look to men. The women on this blog are OBVIOUSLY different than the general population. Remember that. I applaud you, but I have been around women that don't share your beliefs. If you want to wear what you want to wear, DO IT! But if you want to show cleavage b/c it makes you more attractive tothe opposite sex, I'm not going to defend you.

Seriously, dirtybug, you are pissing me off with your prescriptions and presumptions. Try finding a shirt that fits both your waist and your d-cup bust (you can forget about anything that buttons). If you're like me, you're now left with a sparse handful of tops that are still going to get that awkward stretch line. Next rule out anything that shows any cleavage so that people (like you) won't get the impression that you're a total trampgadget. Take anything left that is less than $50 (and for the love of all things decent, please let men know where you were able to find it.)

I saw the picture. They're very nice and she's really cute. Ogling I could understand, but stopping the bus and threatening to kick her off? What an asshole!

But if you want to show cleavage b/c it makes you more attractive tothe opposite sex, I'm not going to defend you.

Defend me from what, pray tell? Sexual harrassment? So, you do think that sexual harrassment is the appropriate response to an attractive woman? And that the only women who shouldn't have to endure such harrassment are those who make themselves as plain as possible? Where are you going to draw the line? What if I wear lipstick and get a professional haircut? What if I wear a close-fitting skirt? At what magic point does it become OK to harrass me?

You might also think about why, in our culture, cleavage is "not professional." Is it perhaps because women's bodies have been treated as sexual objects for so long that it's become the default way to view them?

"But if you want to show cleavage b/c it makes you more attractive to the opposite sex, I'm not going to defend you."

What, specifically, is morally wrong with wanting to look attractive? Ok, so someone can't show cleavage just to feel attractive. What if they like wearing blue because it looks nice on them? Is that alright? What about choosing a haircut because it looks nice?
Yes, sometimes I wear things because they make me feel attractive. In fact, whether some makes me feel cute or hideous almost always factors into my clothing decisions. Yes, some people wear things just so they can go find someone to fuck. So what? They're allowed to, and again, it really doesn't affect you if a woman walks in a bar in a set of pasties in order to get some attention.

I can see a problem with people dressing a certain way SOLELY because they are desperate for attention, but isn't that more sad than anything else? If a woman feels her only value is her big ol' boobs, or pretty face, or ability to give someone a boner, it doesn't make you feel sorry for her? Just offended? If women (according to you, MOST women) feel pressured to dress exclusively to tantalize men, then insisting they cover up or complaining that they make you somehow look bad isn't helpful. Figure out how to attack/complain about the cause (young women feeling pressured to always look good), not the effect (young women doing what they feel they're supposed to do).

There are several cities named Lindau in Germany including one near Berlin, but this Lindau in southern Bavaria on Lake Constance (der Bodensee) has four short buslines, each of the four running twice an hour and meeting at the same transfer point at 10 and 40 minutes after the hour.

In short, this town is a small resort in a religiously very conservative part of Germany's most conservative state of Bavaria. Calling it a city is too much; with its "suburbs" it has less than 80,000 people.

German bus drivers are, in general, extremely professional and take their jobs as seriously as