What the fuck is an exceptional case??

I'm really hoping that the fact that they felt a need to revise the law shows that they're serious this time.

This is a step in the right direction, but I think more action needs to be taken to educated people about the health risks associated with FGM, I think more needs to be done than just banning it.

I read somewhere that FGM is practiced among African Christians and Muslims even though neither religion condones the practice. All I've heard was that it's been practiced for many generations. And families were doing because its "tradition."

This is a step in the right direction, but I think more action needs to be taken to educated people about the health risks associated with FGM, I think more needs to be done than just banning it.

I read somewhere that FGM is practiced among African Christians and Muslims even though neither religion condones the practice. All I've heard was that it's been practiced for many generations. And families were doing because its "tradition."

So does this mean that it will now be entirely disallowed in sterile, medical conditions but carried out in dirty huts by mullahs with rusty razor blades and no anesthetic?

I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing.

"Does anyone know more about the history of FGM in Egypt?"

Egypt seems to have gone back and forth on FGM. In 1995 the Egyptian government basically said it was okay (http://tinyurl.com/2ah3cu). More recently in 2006 a group of Muslim scholars in Cairo declared it to be a crime against humanity (http://tinyurl.com/3x4t33). And now, it's finally banned.

Seems like a pretty big step forward.

So does this mean that it will now be entirely disallowed in sterile, medical conditions but carried out in dirty huts by mullahs with rusty razor blades and no anesthetic?

I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing.

"I read somewhere that FGM is practiced among African Christians and Muslims even though neither religion condones the practice. All I've heard was that it's been practiced for many generations. And families were doing because its "tradition."

This is true. FGM is not an Islamic practice, and even Christians and Jews practice it (http://tinyurl.com/3crdd6). FGM is a cultural tradition and not a religious one.

Sorry about the double post. I got a 500 Internal Server error. Typepad needs to upgrade their servers. Badly.

Well I'm pretty sure that it's ALREADY being practiced in unsanitary conditions, snobgrapher.

These types of laws are great to talk about, but at least in Kenya they have led to FGM happening clandestinely, usually in less sterile conditions. It could give the government and NGOs working there something to brag about, but it's not going to do much for the young girls who are still forced to undergo the procedure. Any plan that will successfully eliminate FGM is going to have to come from within the communities who practice it.

Well obviously, Cara, but if they ban it from legal medical sites it can increase the number of FGMs that are performed in unsanitary conditions. It can also decrease the likelihood that a knowledgable and respected medical professional might talk parents out of having it done to their daughters in the first place.

I can't help squirming and clenching my legs together every time this subject comes up, btw.

It seems like this ban (good thing) needs to come with serious penalties that are enforced against people who violate the ban, or else there will just be more FGM in dangerous unsterile conditions (bad thing).

The thing is, UCLA, the people who insist on practicing FGM will continue to do so no matter what the penalty. It really is ingrained insome peoples' traditions as being the "right" thing to do and until the gov't and NGOs are able to respectfully address that and teach both men and women the dangers of this practice so they will resist it, harsh penalties will do nothing but satiate the international community.

I believe gradually fewer people will practice FGM. However, it is a deeply engrained cultural practice. I don't know about Egypt, but I know in Kenya the practice was fascilitated by women (despite what some of you might assume). Older women very much felt like the white colonial govt was taking female power away when they tried to outlaw the practice. According to older beliefs of most tribes in Kenya, children born to an uncircumcised mother were evil, so the fetus either had to be aborted or the mother was an outcast upon birth.

The procedure was traditionally accompanied by some elaborate and individualized traditions during which teens and "young adults" were considered to fully become women. Part of enduring the pain was showing their strength and their readiness to become full-fledged adults. And of course, boys had to go through a circumcision tradition for many of the same reasons. Basically, it ties into a lot of other cultural beliefs and meanings.

The procedure was traditionally accompanied by some elaborate and individualized traditions during which teens and "young adults" were considered to fully become women. Part of enduring the pain was showing their strength and their readiness to become full-fledged adults. And of course, boys had to go through a circumcision tradition for many of the same reasons. Basically, it ties into a lot of other cultural beliefs and meanings.

Does anyone know the source of the 97% stat? I know the report cited here (and on Feministe) says "a survey conducted in 2000," but has anyone come across the source of this survey? (Asking because someone I shared the stat with thinks it is b.s.)

While searching for the survey source, I found this map via Wikipedia:
Prevalence of FGM in Africa

I really worry how much good the ban will do. Bans on behaviors that square with the social mores tend to, well, not work. They just push the practice underground and away from regulation, and sometimes even reinforce the thing they seek to ban.

I whole-heartedly agree that education is necessary to make further strides in eliminating FGM. I know of work being done in Africa to replace FGM with culturally sensitive and relevant practices which have been successful.

However, I also think that policy change is an important step in the process – after all, mandatory seatbelt and helmet laws, smoking bans, and increased prices on cigarettes have contributed to significant public health improvements here in the U.S.

The BBC article on this announcement has the FGM percentage for Egypt at 90%, not 97%. Not a huge difference, but still a little better.

Obviously it's better if change like this comes from the bottom up, if the women themselves started refusing the procedure. But in the abscence of that, maybe there is a chance this can work from the top down. If this is illegal, how many government workers would be willing to risk arrest and disgrace in order to have their daughters circumsized? Then their daughters would be less likely to do it to their own children. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I can see how things might start to change very slowly, from the top down, if this law is truly enforced.

At the same time, though, do we really want to see cultural leaders and grandmothers arrested? The problem is that most of the people performing FGM are not intending any kind of harm, and without a serious education initiative, arrests are only going to be seen as cultural oppression and a violation of rights. Coming off of what Nina said, I think that the best practice is not to try to impose the law on people, but to work with local and cultural leaders directly and try to educate/include them in putting this practice to rest.

Cara, the article I read said that both Chrisitian and Muslim leaders supported the ban. From the BBC:

"The country's top religious authorities also expressed unequivocal support for the ban.

The Grand Mufti and the head of the Coptic Church said female circumcision had no basis either in the Koran or in the Bible."

Obviously that's not all the cultural leaders in Egypt, but it's a start.

Sorry, but FGM is disgusting and cruel and I don't have any tolerance for mutilating a young girl, even if it is by her grandmother. I don't subscribe to the, "Well it happened to me and I'm fine," kind of thinking, or else the same thing could be said for hitting your kid. Education is key, and fortunately there are programs out there who are working on that (and, yes, probably more are needed), but policy change is absolutely necessary as well.

"The thing is, UCLA, the people who insist on practicing FGM will continue to do so no matter what the penalty. "

I see what you are saying. My intuition tells me that when you raise the punishment for something, the people who don't have strong ties to the procedures will stop. The people who feel it is a necessary part of their culture will resist. But at least you've eliminated some percentage of the practice.

Nina's point, though, is worthwhile - that the ban could harm some women and their offspring if they are viewed as less pure and are stigmatized.

"The thing is, UCLA, the people who insist on practicing FGM will continue to do so no matter what the penalty. "

I see what you are saying. My intuition tells me that when you raise the punishment for something, the people who don't have strong ties to the procedures will stop. The people who feel it is a necessary part of their culture will resist. But at least you've eliminated some percentage of the practice.

Nina's point, though, is worthwhile - that the ban could harm some women and their offspring if they are viewed as less pure and are stigmatized.

"The thing is, UCLA, the people who insist on practicing FGM will continue to do so no matter what the penalty. "

I see what you are saying. My intuition tells me that when you raise the punishment for something, the people who don't have strong ties to the procedures will stop. The people who feel it is a necessary part of their culture will resist. But at least you've eliminated some percentage of the practice.

Nina's point, though, is worthwhile - that the ban could harm some women and their offspring if they are viewed as less pure and are stigmatized.

"Coming off of what Nina said, I think that the best practice is not to try to impose the law on people"

I see your point - it could produce a high degree of resistance if it is seen as coming from outside rather than from within the community.

I read something that said that the way for FGM to end is the same way foot-binding ended, by the people in the communities making pacts to stop. Since there's a big social risk involved in not doing it, people will only stop if they know other people are stopping too. Obviously a prerequisite to them wanting to stop is knowledge about why it's bad, the fact that it's not practiced in everywhere, and other kinds of education.

I see the potential problems with the ban, but I think it could be an opportunity. It won't change things on its own, but it gives people a reason to want to stop - so that they won't be arrested - so maybe people will start pacts to end the practice, and then it really will stop. I wish I knew of ways to encourage that to happen.

I was reading a bit of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and she had suggested that in order for such a law to work, there had to be regular inspection, perhaps annually, of girls to ensure they weren't mutilated. I'm inclined to think it would work.

Okay, not to play devil's advocate (really, I'm not saying I think FGM is a good thing) but couldn't it be kind of traumatic for the individual girls involved to have regular inspections from strangers, and to have all that arguing about whether or not they were doing the right thing?

I know what Kenya wound up with at one point was just a law saying that if a girl did not want to undergo FGM, the government would do what it could to protect her right to choose. Something more along those lines, makes more sense to me I guess.

"So does this mean that it will now be entirely disallowed in sterile, medical conditions but carried out in dirty huts by mullahs with rusty razor blades and no anesthetic?

"I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing."

Suppose some jurisdiction entirely disallows rape even when the rapists wear condoms, and meanwhile some people still get infected with STDs by rapists who don't wear condoms. Is decriminalizing rape with condoms the answer?

"At the same time, though, do we really want to see cultural leaders and grandmothers arrested?"

Since when should being a cultural leader and/or grandmother be a get-out-of-jail-free card?

"The problem is that most of the people performing FGM are not intending any kind of harm..."

Neither are many of the people who pay men dowries to marry and rape preteen girls.

"Sorry, but FGM is disgusting and cruel and I don't have any tolerance for mutilating a young girl, even if it is by her grandmother."

Right on.

"I know what Kenya wound up with at one point was just a law saying that if a girl did not want to undergo FGM, the government would do what it could to protect her right to choose. Something more along those lines, makes more sense to me I guess."

Good point.

Because we don't want to alienate the very communities that we're trying to win over and protect. I think that FGM is atrocious, but I still don't think that prison sentences are appropriate in most cases, in the same way that I think heroin use is atrocious and prison sentences aren't appropriate in most of those cases. Yes, heroin addicts are (usually) only hurting themselves, and those who practice FGM on little girls are not. But I still don't think that it's going to change minds, but only make the resistance stronger.

Also, the idea of doing regular exams on girls makes me kind of nervous. It seems really violating. Not as violating as FGM, sure, but that doesn't make it right.

I have a question that might be slightly off-topic.

FGM is illegal here in the United States. Let's say a 30 year old woman in the US wants to have the procedure done. From a feminist point of view, would it be acceptable to allow this woman to have FGM performed on her of her own volition?

I live in one of the villages in the Nile Valley where FMG is practiced. It is a female tradition and is carried on by the women of the area and has been for thousands of years, long before any of the current religions. It is uncommon among the urban middle to upper class women (if not unheard of) in the cities but common among the poor and rural women whose lives are more ruled by tradition. For this tradition to be changed, the women of the community have to be reached and educated. I can guarantee that "inspections" would be highly traumatic. The problem is that most of the people trying to change the tradition come from outside the community and are thus viewed with a certain degree of distrust. Just where the intervention should be attempted is a tricky question. Young girls have no say in these situations and the older women have been through it and have a vested interest in seeing the continuance. It's hard to justify to yourself having gone through the misery if you are telling everyone else that the procedure is unnecessary and dangerous. Basic cognitive dissonance. That a change would be better for the women is obvious to us...unfortunately it isn't obvious to them.

Jeremy - From a feminist point of view, a woman has autonomy over her body.
Therefore if she wanted FGM, she should be able to have it.
In saying that, I cannot imagine an adult woman living in the States seeking out this kind of procedure...but then, I find pretty much all forms of cosmetic surgery incomprehensible, so maybe I'm not the best judge of these things.

Egypthorses - thanks for giving it to us "from the horses's mouth" so to speak (geddit!).
As someone living in the area, if you were given the task of making FGM socially unacceptable, how would you go about it?

(I realise that that is a pretty big question!)

Anorak, I disagree. It is neither feminist nor morally acceptable, in my opinion, to kill someone because they're suicidal. It is neither feminist nor morally acceptable to withhold food from an anorexic woman. And I don't think it's feminist or morally acceptable for an adult woman to be getting FGM. These choices aren't made in a vacuum, and when people make self-destructive, self-mutilating choices, there may be few ways to stop them, but I don't think a feminist position should be to condone them.

Egypthorses, thank you for your comment. It really gets to the root of the problem. While I fully support the ban, the change will ultimately come from within communities, but information has to somehow be delivered. Education is really key. I've read that many women think that if "circumcision" is not performed their clitoris will grow huge and drag on the ground. No Joke!!! I was shocked when I read about it, but women really do believe that. I don't know how wide spread the belief, but it has been shown that education of the elders as well as the younger generations, seperately and together, makes a huge difference. And it's not about preaching, it's about empowering people, teaching anatomy, physical development, bodily functions and purposes of different organs. It goes much deeper than just saying that what they are doing is wrong. Obviously easier said than done, but education is really the only way.

And my heart just aches for all the girls and women who had to endure this horrible procedure. I hope to see it disappear in my lifetime.

The community pacts re: ending footbinding were in part driven by and definitely accompanied by strict laws prohibiting footbinding as well. It's not an either/or situation. There is no reason why FGM should be the only form of child mutilation kept legal. Accompanying such a ban with community-sensitive forms of outreach is only practical, but I don't see what good letting it be legal does.

Egypthorses, thank you for your comment. It really gets to the root of the problem. While I fully support the ban, the change will ultimately come from within communities, but information has to somehow be delivered. Education is really key. I've read that many women think that if "circumcision" is not performed their clitoris will grow huge and drag on the ground. No Joke!!! I was shocked when I read about it, but women really do believe that. I don't know how wide spread the belief, but it has been shown that education of the elders as well as the younger generations, seperately and together, makes a huge difference. And it's not about preaching, it's about empowering people, teaching anatomy, physical development, bodily functions and purposes of different organs. It goes much deeper than just saying that what they are doing is wrong. Obviously easier said than done, but education is really the only way.

And my heart just aches for all the girls and women who had to endure this horrible procedure. I hope to see it disappear in my lifetime.

Giving people a free pass to do something reprehensible because of their culture, religion, sex, age, race, atc, is the very mechanism by which these atrocities continue to happen.