I would be slightly less disturbed by this if the lifeguard is required to have a fresh manicure and pedicure while on duty, and is required to know all the cooking skills and deportment taught by the beach staff.

But only slightly.

(and, WTF -- I'm with you, Jen. What girl DOESN'T like fried food???? Someone get me some french fries, stat!)

While I appreciate an all-female beach for reasons spelled out over in the street harasser thread, it seems like the man running this beach has designed it with his opinion of what women SHOULD want. Women should want deportment and cookery lessons so they can be proper "ladies" who don't deign to eat fried food. Women should want to be saved by a man, because that's only the natural order of things. So... good in theory, bit of misogynistic fumbling on the execution.

isn't it the men of Italy who need the deportment lessons??

Hahaha mani-pedi.

hahahahahahahahahaha!

I do have to say that in Italy abortion is no big deal, women routinely keep their real names, and and wait, there has to be something else . . .

I'll be back with a report on the beaches from my husband, who's from Rome. Right now he's run out to the grocery story to get what he needs to make dinner tonight.

ciao

On the "muscles" issue, it is my understanding that men tend to have more upperbody strength while women generally build more leg/lower body strength. Since most lifeguard rescues involve holding a victim with the arms, the legs do most of the swimming, yes?

I won't even get into genetics having less to do with it than actually working out...

That dude who says "It's a matter of muscles" doesn't know what he's talking about. I was certified as a lifeguard for a summer camp job, and part of the program consisted of "saving" (they were pretending, obviously) two people at once.
I'm 5'3" and about 110 lbs. I "saved" a 180 lb woman and a 200+ lb man. At the same time. It was a challenge, but if you have the proper training, it's not impossible.

A matter of muscles, my ass.

I'm particularly mystified by this comment: "Calling it a "beach harem", Italian newspaper La Stampa said the woman-only beach reflected a growing demand for female rights in Italy."

A harem???? I'm not quite sure I like the notion of equating a harem with "female rights". And what the fuck is with the Lara Croft model on that story?

hahahahahah

still laughing and so is the husband. it's just so absurd. he has nothing to add except to say that the mindset is so obvious--it's a harem.

i'd also add that the play here, from the paper, is on the stereotypes of Italian men, many of whom (perhaps the beach owner is one, perhaps not) understand the absurdity of such stereotypes. Let's hope.

Bryan--
Yes, in most rescue situations the rescuer holds the drowner (for lack of a better word) to his/her chest and mostly kicks with the legs to get back to shore.

Good lord, between my last two posts I sound like a Red Cross pamphlet.

This is another example of how the male idea of needing to protect women can go too far and prove to their disadvantage. Is the owner of the beach to blame here? I don't think so. He probably does not think what he is doing is sexist, only practical. However, he is only managing to perpetuate the stereotype that women are incapable of protecting themselves.

To provide another example of male protectionism, women are not allowed to fight in combat zones unless Congress is consulted, and many jobs in the military are off-limits to women. Women are not vulnerable children that men must protect. It is time that society stops collectively treating women as powerless. I strongly believe that combat troops should include women. By "protecting" women we are only keeping them in a subordinate state to men.

Nic is correct. Often times a large muscle mass can be a hindrance in lifeguarding, as muscle tends to sink, and counteracting that takes added energy.

I spent many summers lifeguarding on ocean beaches, and I can say with a high degree of comfort that the gender of my fellow lifeguards had little correlation to their skills, strength, and ability to do the job.

Well said, Nic. I'm another former lifeguard, 5'4" and about 140 lbs at the time, and the final test for my certificate was to pull our ~250 lb. instructor out of the pool without help. It is a task that everyone in my class completed, including some very small women, and one that many, if not most, women could complete if properly trained.

To provide another example of male protectionism, women are not allowed to fight in combat zones unless Congress is consulted, and many jobs in the military are off-limits to women. Women are not vulnerable children that men must protect. It is time that society stops collectively treating women as powerless. I strongly believe that combat troops should include women. By "protecting" women we are only keeping them in a subordinate state to men.

::applauds::

My parents made us pass a rudimentary lifeguard test when we asked to be able to use the pool unsupervised as teenagers.

Part of the test was bringing our (limp, playing possum) parents up from the bottom of the (nine foot deep) pool and then get them OUT of the pool. My sister and I both passed, despite being half the size of our parents.

Yeah, I know drowning victims frequently struggle, but current protocol dictates that you do not use physical force to subdue a drowning person, but rather (in case of a truly combative victim) use those nifty red floaty things to push them away from you and keep them afloat while preventing them from dragging you under.

I can't see how a man could do that any better than a woman.

Furthermore, women usually have higher body fat percentages, which keeps us warm and makes us more buoyant.

Come to think of it, why do we even allow male lifeguards? I think they may be inherently unsuited for the job.

Most of the lifeguards around here are women. If women can lifeguard in mixed-gender groups here then I can't imagine female lifeguards over there would have any problems in women-only beaches. Unless women just aren't allowed to lifeguard in Italy? That would be distressing.

Anyways, if I'm going to go to a women's only beach, then I want it to be a women's only beach. Okay? Why would I want to get away from the stress of being around men in a bikini just to stand in front of a man while in a bikini? For that, I'll get a t-shirt and go to the regular beach.

That's ridiculous on so many levels. First of all, I am a certified lifeguard and have pulled people of all sizes out of the water. Not in the ocean, but I would think that because women are stronger in the lower body they'd be better suited for beach lifeguarding. Plus, if it's an all female beach, the patrons are probably going to be generally smaller and lighter than they would be if there were men swimming. At the pool I used to work at, there always had to be at least one female lifeguard on duty, because some women are more comfortable going to another woman with emergencies.

"Italy’s long-standing tradition of male chauvinism"

This surprises me. I thought Europe was more progressive than the U.S.. I'm not an Expert on Italy. Is it really that bad of a place for women?

I'd laugh at how ludicrious the idea that having bigger muscles makes you a better lifeguard if it wasn't so absolutely sexist the whole basis of this beach thing. It isn't the women only thing, but everything they are including to be 'women only' and that women can't protect other women.

I took lifeguarding classes in high school one year to keep in shape inbetween swim team season. After everyone did their dragging of a swimming version of a 250 lb crash dummy out of the deep end of the diving pool, one of the guys asked the MALE instructor why the girls had an easier time than the guys.

He said without a second thought, "They have breasts, breasts float. Lifeguarding is one thing that men have to try harder than women to be good at."

Yah, it was sexist, but we had a good laugh at the guys who looked really sheepishly stupid afterwards. Lol

I'd laugh at how ludicrious the idea that having bigger muscles makes you a better lifeguard if it wasn't so absolutely sexist the whole basis of this beach thing. It isn't the women only thing, but everything they are including to be 'women only' and that women can't protect other women.

I took lifeguarding classes in high school one year to keep in shape inbetween swim team season. After everyone did their dragging of a swimming version of a 250 lb crash dummy out of the deep end of the diving pool, one of the guys asked the MALE instructor why the girls had an easier time than the guys.

He said without a second thought, "They have breasts, breasts float. Lifeguarding is one thing that men have to try harder than women to be good at."

Yah, it was sexist, but we had a good laugh at the guys who looked really sheepishly stupid afterwards. Lol

im going to italy on wednesday. maybe i'll have to check out this "pink beach" and give some lifeguards a piece of my mind.

the best part of the article is the end where it says that italian officials say that this is a step towards "female rights"....right...because its VERY liberating to go to a beach and be told that i need to learn how to cook and get a manicure. and i cant even eat french fries to make me feel better about it. lame.

"This surprises me. I thought Europe was more progressive than the U.S.. I'm not an Expert on Italy. Is it really that bad of a place for women?"

Yes... and no.

The Italian Supreme Court acquitted a man of rape, because the woman he raped wore tight jeans. But on the core feminism issues the Italians are ahead of the Americans.

In 1977 in Italy a fair pay law was passed; Law 903, Parità di Trattamento tra Uomini e Donne in Materia di Lavoro or Equality Treatment between Men and Women Regarding Labor. And Legislation reforming family rights was passed in 1975 (Law 151, Riforma del Diritto della Famiglia or Family Rights Reform), which basically puts a wife on equal standing with her husband.

I'm not an expert of Italy either, but this was what I was able to quickly research.

Fatima

For some reason I doubt it will be a "piece of your mind" that the male Italian lifeguards will notice. And if they are anything like average Italian men, they will probably charm the pants off of you (figurative, I don't know you enough to say literally)

However please report back and tell us what you think of the "Pink Beach." If it's any good I might help pay for my wife to take a trip there. I have been against my wife taking a trip to Italy, because I was afraid she might never want to come back.

Here's an interesting idea; "Baywatch Pink Beach", the Italian late night drama.

Would it be soft core porn meant for women or men?

How would you know what average Italian men are like, Itazura? You stated that you were not an expert on Italy. IMO you are simply reinforcing stereotypes that are rampant in the Anglo press. This article is from Britain, not unknown for the fun it has in expressing its superiority at the expense of Southern Europeans. (I'm an Anglo btw).

There is spoofing on several levels going on in this piece, all of it playing on stereotypes. I would merely express caution when invited to fall into stereotypical thinking.

Nicole, here's a Feministe thread touching on harassment in Europe.

I am Italian, live and work in Italy. All this is just squalid. I don't need a pink beach (!) to avoid male chauvinism - expecially when the owner is, clearly, chauvinist himself.
And, by the way, how can this nutty beach reflect "a growing demand for female rights"?

I am from northern Italy and I find this article extremely offensive. The abuse of stereotypes is not new to british publications when referring to southern european countries but this is too much: this so called "long-standing tradition of male chauvinism" in Italy is simply non existent!
I am so annoyed!
thank you Grace for bringing a little light onto this. All this crap about italian man is just, well...crap!
A ban on man, a stereotypical depiction of italian men and the fact that you find the first paragraph "Hmm, so far so good" make the post as correctly filed as "sexism", only the way around.
Before expressing opinions and judgement about something make sure you know what you're talking about.

My apologies to the average Italian men for claiming that you all are charming (and that you probably could figuratively charm the pants off of Fatima).

The one thing I've noticed about Italian men is that they are generally much better looking than the guys here. I think I'll be heading to Italy when I want a husband!

That reminds me of one of my female coworkers who said she wanted to see the 2006 World Cup Championship game played nude, because the Italians were in.

lol. I have a weakness for Kaka myself. He plays on the Milan team. That would definitely be one game that I'd actually enjoy(not much of a sports fan).

Actually I wish all of the Olympic games were played the way that the ancient Greeks played them; nude. Except that I would keep the modern contributions, such as women participation and the right for women to be spectators of the events. The Winter Olympic would be a little awkward though, and they would never be played near Salt Lake City again.

Completely off the topic I know.

Back to the topic; I wonder if women would feel more comfortable going topless at a "pink beach", which since it's Italian I am sure it will be.

Off topic again.

Nicole I always find it sad that women are not much of sports fans. The WNBA is not doing well for that very reason.

Personally I care little for professional sports, but I love the collegic/amateur sports, and I was one of the few men at my office that filled out a college women's final four prediction bracket (the only fantasy sports I participated in).

"Women should want deportment and cookery lessons so they can be proper 'ladies' who don't deign to eat fried food. Women should want to be saved by a man, because that's only the natural order of things. So... good in theory, bit of misogynistic fumbling on the execution."

Now I wonder how few customers he'll get for this private beach.

"This surprises me. I thought Europe was more progressive than the U.S."

I heard it totally depends on which bit of Europe:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/magazine/04berlin.html?ex=1291352400&en=2a16b54522cbc21d&ei=5090

At a purely anecdotal level, I can say that when I'm in Rome and on my on I get nonstop crap from the locals, whereas here in Berlin I've only known two incidents of street harassment in two years (and one of those was in Spanish). London is bad though too, so the UK press doesn't really have much right to point a finger at Italian males.

At a purely anecdotal level, I can say that when I'm in Rome and on my on I get nonstop crap from the locals, whereas here in Berlin I've only known two incidents of street harassment in two years (and one of those was in Spanish). London is bad though too, so the UK press doesn't really have much right to point a finger at Italian males.

I had the exact opposite experience when I was living in Berlin. It's actually the only place I have ever lived where I dealt with harrassment not only on a daily basis, but multiple times a day.

OK, cookery classes on the beach? I'm passionate about cooking, who the hell wants to learn cooking on the beach? Does anyone actually go to a hot beach in order to stand over an even hotter stove?

Elise, was that in Kreuzberg or Neukölln? I'm remembering now that a friend who lived in that part of town complained bitterly about harassment.

Elise, was that in Kreuzberg or Neukölln? I'm remembering now that a friend who lived in that part of town complained bitterly about harassment.

Mitte, Prenzlberg, Neukölln, Marzahn, Charlottenburg (including a very narrowly escaped rape attempt) a few times, Schöneberg once or twice, once in Dahlem, a few times in Wedding and Kreuzberg, once or twice in Tiergarten, a few times in Friedrichshain, but mostly in Prenzlberg and Mitte (years later, I realised that one of those incidents was why I felt utterly revolted every time I kissed anyone on the lips for several years following that one), where I wohned. The scariest incident was one night in Neukölln, though, to be sure.

That one I blame largely on the city . If they hadn't named several streets and squares after Karl Marx (I was supposed to meet a client in Karl-Marx-Straße, but wrote it down wrong and ended up going to Karl-Marx-Platz), and provided us with two Mainzer Straßen, I never would have been anywhere near there.

I made the mistake of asking a guy for directions, because, having found (the wrong) Mainzer Str., I decided to try to find my friend's flat, at tthe corner of Mainzer Str. and Boxhagener Str. (in Friedlhain), to use her phone. The guy followed me for 10 deserted blocks (by this time it was the middle of the night), calling after me.

Nonetheless, Berlin (somehow) remains my favorite city, and I hope to return some day.

(Note for those unfamiliar with the geography of Berlin: the Mainzer Str. I thought I was on was actually a completely separate street miles away.I still don't remember how I got home.)

Wow! I'm sorry you had so much shit... When was this? I'm in Mitte/Prenzelberg mainly, and it seems harassment-free to me now. I feel extremely safe in this city, but comparison to London.

Wow! I'm sorry you had so much shit... When was this? I'm in Mitte/Prenzelberg mainly, and it seems harassment-free to me now. I feel extremely safe in this city, but comparison to London.

This was 1999-2000. I lived in both Mitte (Rosenthaler Str. Ecke Auguststr.) and Prenzlberg (Erich-Weinert- Ecke Weissnimmerstr.). Whereabouts are you living now?

And the fact is, despite all of that fuckery, I nonetheless lover Berlin. I can even kiss again, ever since I realised what had put me off it (a Senegalese guy with whom I'd been talking randomly and without warning shoved his tongue — which was still slimy from some poorly roasted chicken — in my mouth when I turned my head in his direction. That was some fucked-up, repugnant shit.)

Tja, immerhin was für meinen großen Berliner Stadtroman der Nachwendezeit!

P'berg, without giving myself away. I love Augustrasse and know it pretty well though, and the more northerly end of Pberg.

I love it too – that's the only reason why I moved here.

And that snog sounds like enough to make one want to sew one's mouth shut. Ew!