Rape is just SO funny.
This vile piece of work is presented without comment. Because Shakes says it all. I feel like crying.
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Jesus fucking christ.
I actually thought it was a little bit funny at first (the parody-of-vapid-dates part, not the rape part!)but then...um, no.
I need to go wash my brain now.
Oh, that's just hilarious... It's also good to find out that only women and effeminate gay men are self-absorbed or boring. Lord knows I've never met a boring straight man who only talked about himself! And really, if I had to put up with that for a night, I'd expect to get some quasi-necrophilic sex, too. I guess it could have been worse and outright showed the dude dropping the rohypnol in her drink. Hey, he may be a rapist, but he wouldn't go THAT far! Or, maybe...
i want to have a looong conversation with everyone involved in this piece. even the guitar.
Everyone seems to be talking about this.
Far towards the end of the list of horrible things about this, I know have that fucking chorus stuck in my head.
But hey, there's so much to hate! It started out as misogynist tripe! It turned into entitled misogynist wish-fulfillment! And then it finished with a joke about rape! Ha!
And if someone runs over this guy with their car, I had nothing to do with it.
That they can prove.
This makes me sick to my stomach.
HEY THOMAS, IT'S A JOKE! IF MEN WANT TO RAPE WOMEN AND THEN LAUGH ABOUT IT, IT'S NOT YOUR BUSINESS.
[that was my official impression of this guy's fan base, which seems to be rabidly supporting him on myspace.]
It's only funny to those troglidites because this won't *usually* happen to men and gay men don't go around date raping each other (as far as I know from my friends in the gay community). So it's a one sided thing that het men to to women and feel entitled to do because she was a vapid self absorbed bitch, when he can't see he's a shallow asshole.
Gawd.
The thing that I probably find to be most disturbing of all, UltraMagnus, is how many WOMEN think this is funny. If you scroll through the comments, you'll see lots of women leaving "lol" and "funny!" and even several women DEFENDING this shit and saying "it's just a joke" and "lighten up." Yeah, I think that definitely depresses me most of all.
Wow. Not funny.
Man, that was easily the most unentertaining, boring song I've ever heard. That guy has no place calling other people boring, as roughly every single human being in the world is more interesting than he is. I don't doubt that rape is indeed his main form of getting laid, as he's definitely too boring to get someone to want to have sex with him. I doubt he really needs alcohol to knock anyone out. Just whip out the guitar and she'll be snoring from tedium in no time.
Not only are women leaving supportive comments, he got all those women to "act" in the video. As a theatre professional, I am ashamed.
Just terrible. It's even worse that the women are so keen on defending this total and complete BS.
Then again, women are affected by raunch culture and I think a natural extension of this kind of line of thinking is being able to, in effect, say--Lighten up. It's just rape!
Don't you know? Rape is always funny to some Republicans and their ilk.
Josh Hopkins for example, son of Larry Hopkins, ex-Congressman, R-Kentucky.
His Wiki entry reveals Daddy Hopkins was infamously caught pretending to be a Korean War vet in an unsuccessful bid for governor when it was discovered he only enlisted after the war.
Sonny meanwhile, true to Daddy's form, is living proof that apples never fall far from the tree, that maggots always spring forth from rotting flesh, i.e, Josh son of Larry, a bad actor imitating a pathetic human being.
This was completely reprehensible. I wish there was a way that the video would not advertise the name of the offender. I could barely keep with it. Just disgusting.
She is the one who is self-absorbed because she talks at length about herself and fails to ask about him.
He considers humping her inert, unconscious bod. So he can orgasm. Which is the whole point of the date, to him.
But she is the one who is self-absorbed.
Total disconnect on the standards.
first of all...i really didn't think any of it was that funny. plus the song was so incredibly monotonous...i need a little more than 2 chords and a smattering of words that happen to rhyme..sort of...to keep me interested.
so it was a bad song before the rape "joke"...which is probably the worst of it's kind that i've seen...and now i kind of want to hurt him.
or at least get him so drunk he passes out in a room full of big scary men (who i would of course instruct not to touch him...i don't actually wish rape on anyone) so he wakes up in the morning unsure of what happened and scared that perhaps someone did the very thing he's been joking about.
cause that seems fair. let him live the rest of his life paranoid that someone violated him while unconscious.
ugh.
WOW. Did anyone else notice that he used the all-too-familiar "you shouldn't have gotten drunk" excuse?
And the message is basically: I'm only interested in your pussy.
Not to mention: I'll pretend to be interested in what you're saying instead of changing the subject/saying something about myself, because I just want to get into your pants, and not letting you say and do exactly what you want 24/7 might make you like me less.
Since when do women like men who are so fucking blank?
And since when are real women so fucking blank? Jesus christ.
This thing made me want to vomit. The portayal of women is unforgivable, and this guy is a total douche. Not to mention the song sucks balls.
WOW. Did anyone else notice that he used the all-too-familiar "you shouldn't have gotten drunk" excuse?
And the message is basically: I'm only interested in your pussy.
Not to mention: I'll pretend to be interested in what you're saying instead of changing the subject/saying something about myself, because I just want to get into your pants, and not letting you say and do exactly what you want 24/7 might make you like me less.
Since when do women like men who don't even respond to what they're saying? Newsflash: THEY DON'T.
And since when are real women so fucking blank? Jesus christ.
This thing made me want to vomit. The portayal of women is unforgivable, and this guy is a total douche. Not to mention the song sucks balls.
"I'm only interested in having sex with you, possibly while you are unconscious, but you'd better be asking me questions and being interested in my (pathetically bad) personality, bitch."
This is so disturbing!
I am getting ready to do research on homophobia and read a journal article about how making sexist jokes can lead to a greater tolerance of sexist behavior, if it isn't in the "humor" form, people get mad and take offense. So, if making sexist jokes leads to a greater tolerance of sexist behavior, then songs like this, which are supposed to be jokes (I use that term loosely) may possibly lead to a greater acceptance of this type of behavior, which scares the living shit out of me.
What a dumbass!
Oh god, I totally get the guy's pain. I mean, being female and fearing someone forcing themselves on me sexually while I sleep is NOTHING compared to the boredom guys must feel when they have to actually LISTEN to girls they take on dates before getting to sleep with them. Man, that song just made the agony of being a ridiculously entitled male REAL to me.
Suggestion 1: Go on dates with real women whom you are, you know, interested in rather than someone you think is hot but you have nothing in common with
Suggestion 2: DON'T RAPE WOMEN
Suggestion 3: Take something she says and turn it to yourself to engage yourself in the conversation, like "oh, you like the Beatles? I'm more a fan of Blah, do you like them?"
Suggestion 4: DON'T RAPE WOMEN
Suggestion 5: Moniter your alcohol intake along with your date's so no one has an unfortunate "incident" at the end of the night
Suggestion 6: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T FUCKING RAPE WOMEN.
Wow. This guy really hates women.
He's unable to contribute to a conversation about movies, music, sports, veganism, spirituality, or travel and SHE'S the one who's vapid and shallow?
Interesting.
I think the video mocks both sides of the 20-something dating scene, using completely stereotypical characters of both genders. And when it comes down to it, people think "That guys a scumbag." before they say "She's dumb as a post."
This video is certainly degrading to women. But it's much, much more degrading to men. I see this video causing causing more negative views about women than the intended audience already holds. I would imagine, however, that guys that care about such things, such as myself, need to worry about stuff like this forwarding a negative, though tragically accurate much to frequently, view of my gender.
I'm not proud of being a guy, and I understand why I'm not allowed to be upset over this kind of stuff the same way you are when women are degraded. I know my problems as a guy are not nearly as bad as even the smallest issues women face, but at least women can effectively organize themselves against such discrimination and support each other. My gender is incapable of that, and it kind of sucks sometimes. Maybe if men started giving a crap about themselves feminists and the male equivalent could put an end to crap like this that stereotype either gender, but I'm afraid it just isn't going to happen until men lose the right to vote and women are allowed to take power. It's sad, but true.
I guess my point is that I'd just like to apologize for all the bullshit you have to put up with thanks to us.
Open_sketch, I see your point. I don't think you have any reason to apologize personally like that unless you are personally responsible for said bullshit.
I also think it is perfectly valid to think about how the gender hierarchy and gender stereotypes disserve both sexes in different ways.
I am more optimistic about men's potential to contribute to an egalitarian culture. True, I have seen men organizing in misogynistic ways around gender issues right now and I have seen men being complacent about gender issues. Men have contributed substantially to queer theory, though (that moniker always makes me cringe).
I am sorry you don't feel proud of your identity as a man. I'd like to live in a world where people were given more support for enjoying their gender identities, whether they be female, male, intersex, or trans.
open_sketch,
You can still be proud of your identity as a man without being proud of the watered down, inauthentic, pop culture version of identifying as a man. Go your own way (okay, I like Fleetwood Mac) -- it is not your fault when other men do stupid things in the name of manliness if you don't, and so much the better that you call bs when you see it.
Open_sketch - if you want to band together with other guys to try to undo some of this stuff, you might want to look into mencanstoprape.org or some other pro-feminist men's group.
http://www.feminist.com/resources/links/links_men.html
Chicks dig male feminists. :) I know I do.
open sketch, you seem to have good intentions, but I take issue with your idea that this is more degrading to men than it is to women. The point, really, isn't how "degrading" it is, anyway. If it wasn't for the rape joke at the end, sure it would be misogynist, but it would also be really, really standard-- so standard, in fact, that I doubt we would talk about it. You see that kind of shit on sitcoms regularly. It's not about being "degrading" (in this particularly instance). It's about the fact that so many people have drawn the mind-boggling conclusion that rape is funny.
I sent an email to Myspace reporting the video as beyond offensive. I would encourage everyone else to do so as well.
I'd just like to say I don't think what people are laughing at is rape, but rather pure stupidity. I don't think anybody thinks "rape is funny" but I know a lot of guys that would say "Wow, that guy is such a loser it's funny!" Which is sad and pathetic, but not on par with finding rape itself funny. Doesn't make us any better, but sure doesn't make us worse.
Men like laughing at losers. It makes us feel powerful. We would likely find it just as funny if he had, say, taken advantage of her falling down drunk to steal stuff from her purse. We don't laugh at the action, we laugh at the idiot doing it, because we find losers funny. It's still not right and I'm not defending anyone, but I just want you to realize that pretty much nobody finds rape funny, even men.
At least, I hope.
The only laughable thing about this video is that this guy is trying to say that only women and effeminate men can be self-absorbed.
But that ending was actually just terrifying to me.
If you realize that rape is not funny, you would be able to realize that the joke about the loser, that involves rape, is not funny. Adam Sandler plays losers, and I'm sure that he has had many jokes fall flat in his long and lucrative career. Because the joke was not funny, even if the character was.
No, I don't think that men would look at footage of a man clumsily raping a woman with no context and necessarily laugh. But I think that this is clearly an excuse for men to laugh at rape. It's presented in an "acceptable" form and they can PRETEND that they're laughing at the loser, and because it was led up to, say that it was "just a joke." But I think that's a massive, massive cover up, whether conscious or not.
But... if men don't find rape funny, why would they need an excuse to laugh about it? I'm confused now.
some men /do/ find rape funny, open_sketch. other men are confused about what exactly constitutes rape, and may just find manipulative sex funny. fact is, rape is a common crime. We all know men who have raped, even though we probably don't realize which ones they are.
Ugh. A quick google search shows that you're correct, and once again I find myself disgusted with my own gender.
God, what is wrong with us?
Mostly the culture you're part of. I hope your willingness to challenge the assumptions of culture leads you down a path of greater contentment and understanding. I hope the same for myself.
Wow. I actually thought it was amusing enough until that ending... Then I was just, disturbed.
the number of women on myspace commenting on funny this is, and even defending it is frightening. i don't understand why women are so afraid of the term, feminism. they're more concerned about it driving men away then they are about their own rights, and safety. i figure if it drives men like this away then that is just one more incentive to declare yourself as a feminist.
Hi, first comment.
I went on to My Space and flagged this as inappropriate content. If any of you guys are members on myspace, it would be great if you did the same. If we ignore this it won't go away. :)
Hi, first comment.
I went on to My Space and flagged this as inappropriate content. If any of you guys are members on myspace, it would be great if you did the same. If we ignore this it won't go away. :)
Hi, this is my first comment here.
I just went on to myspace and reported this video as inappropriate content.
If any of you are members on myspace I suggest you do the same. If we ignore this type of thing it won't go away :)
Hi, this is my first comment here.
I just went on to myspace and reported this video as inappropriate content.
If any of you are members on myspace I suggest you do the same. If we ignore this type of thing it won't go away :)
Hi, this is my first comment here.
I just went on to myspace and reported this video as inappropriate content.
If any of you are members on myspace I suggest you do the same. If we ignore this type of thing it won't go away :)
sorry bout the multiple post, comp froze on me....oops
I refuse to refer to this piece of human garbage by name, so I'll just call him "Sad Sack." Talentless Sad Sack had to compose a jingle to go along with his pro-rape commercial dedicated to all the other Cro-Mags upset at the fact that even "self-absorbed" bimbos are smart enough not to want to sleep with guys like this. At least not sober, anyway.
Proof of Darwinism at play. He can't get laid, he'll never spawn.
Then again, maybe he's upset that he has a small penis. I think that explains the Black male midget.
Wow, this is absolutely the most disgusting thing I have seen all week. Apparently, on the "artists" MySpace page (the address for it flashes at the end of the video) he cut-out the last line ("As Far As You Know"). He even talks about how he "bastardized" the video in his blog.
For your satisfaction (instead of amusement... nothing about this is amusing), I have pasted my MySpace message to him below:
THANKS...
...for producing a funny video about rape (I saw the original version). I'm sure your mother is proud. You should check to make sure nothing like that ever happened to her, though. You might be troubled by some remorse if it did...
Well, considering you wrote this song, you probably would not feel a thing.
"FEIGNING INTEREST: Actor and musician (he's one threat away from being a triple threat!) Josh Hopkins sensitively explores the internal conflict experienced by a man who finds himself on a date with a woman who is deeply boring yet attractive enough to maintain his interest in having sex with her."
Sensitively?
Ugh. That's from the MySpace site, by the way. I think this was really bad/insuling/disgusting LONG before the rape. Just my opinion however.
i don't understand why women are so afraid of the term, feminism. they're more concerned about it driving men away then they are about their own rights, and safety.
It is shocking, isn't it? It really affects in a very visceral way to see multiple women defending rape. But then again, let's look at the posts by men defending this drivel. I think all of them had something to do with how any woman who has a problem with it is "just an ugly feminist bull-dyke" who's just jealous because men don't want them! Like Jessica says in her book, basically waving the "ugly stick" at women to get them to shut their mouths.
It really freaks me out that young girls are seeing pages and pages of this kind of crap--and pages and pages of women agreeing with this--and forming opinions about what feminism IS.
This is possibly the least funny video I have ever seen. I feel sick after watching it.
If you go into the Videos section on his MySpace page you'll see pages of comments that actually speak out against this video. I was so happy to see those, because none are posted on his main profile page (which, of course, means that he didn't allow critical comments to be posted...HA). What a two faced hypocrite!
I also sent him a message saying that RAPE IS NOT FUNNY and that he should think twice if he ever wants to write a song about something again. I don't expect a reply, but I think the more messages he gets the more ashamed he'll be...or not. Just makes me so damn sad.
Just yesterday I spent all day being harassed on the street because APPARENTLY my outfit was too sexy. I came home so angry and exhausted from all the "compliments" and "attention" I wanted to cry. And now this video? It just doesn't get any better, does it?
As a completely non-religious person, today I pray for strength.
I'm honestly shocked at how high the rating is for that video. Ugh. Aside from the fact that it's repulsive, I was so incredibly BORED waiting for the stupid thing to finish.
I wish there was a "Flag as inappropriate" link on MySpace, like YouTube has. I'm going to take up a previous poster's suggestion and e-mail MySpace about it, though.
The comments on that page make my brain want to leak out of my ear. Would someone please get me a bucket?
Although this video isn't funny, just about any subject can be. Murder can be funny, as in the play
"Arsenic and Old Lace." I'm sure it's possible to tell a funny joke about rape (ask Sarah Silverman), but being funny doesn't automatically justify something like this.
Really, Doug? I wonder why the uproarious hilarity of, say, pedophilia or infanticide haven't caught on as cultural memes.
Really, Doug? I wonder why the uproarious hilarity of, say, pedophilia or infanticide haven't caught on as cultural memes.
A man and a little boy are walking through the woods at night. The boy says: "These woods are really scary." The man says: "You think you're scared? I'm going to have to walk back alone!"
Ba-dum-tch!
One theory on humor, that is, what makes something funny, is that it is a mild form of societal disapproval and can also signal a certain discomfort. Therefore, when somebody is clumsy and walks into walls, at first it is funny. After a while it crosses a line and ceases to be humorous. The same goes for jokes that involve something obviously "bad" like the line: "Rape isn't funny -- unless you're raping a clown." Obviously the line at which it starts being disturbing and stops being funny is different for everyone.
I think this video crosses the line.
It's on YouTube. Go give it a one-star rating and flag it as inappropriate.
thank god ya'll are out here, making sure no one makes any attempt at humor relating to anything relevant or universal. Sarah Silverman has made a career out of material like this. Lighten the fuck up.
I have watched this clip about 10 times trying to find redeeming qualities within it (sorry that my comments are often late, but I like to take a balanced approached before forming an opinion, because I'm a moderate), but I just can't find anything good about this clip.
At best it's a very poor attempt to be satirical (not once did I laugh), and at worse it's a very clear endorsement of date rate. The conclusion to the clip is indisputably an endorsement of date rape. Which under no circumstances is ever funny.
When I was a single man, I had been on dates were the conversation made me want to leave a mannequin in my place, so that I could discreetly get out of the restaurant (or where ever we were), because good conversation is much more important to me than being able to claim that I scored later (actually scoring is not a victory at all if one doesn't care for the potential lover they are with, and it's criminal if you scored without obtaining consent). And a lot of you women have to admit that you also have been on dates with men that you quickly wanted to get away from because they were boring. However staying with a boring person shouldn't be a topic to exploit for laughs (unless the joke is on the person who stays even though they are bored). If you stay with a person only so that you can have consensual sex with them later, then you're probably setting yourself up for disappointment. I am not saying that consensual casual sex with someone is always bad, but rarely will it lead to a long term relationship. And getting someone drunk, so that you can have you can gain entrance into their unconscious body, is without question evil and criminal.
The only argument I can think of (playing devil's advocate) to defend the creators of this outrage, is that they may have been trying to warn women that men date rape women who get drunk. However it looks like this clip was intended for men, so the only conclusion anyone can get from this is that; it is acceptable to rape drunk women. It definitely it not acceptable to date rape, and you might have grounds to sue the creators of the clip for encouraging men to date rape.
One thing for certain is that I would not feel comfortable with the creators of this clip living in my neighborhood, so maybe we should black list these guys, so that we can give women (and girls) a warning about the dangers that these men (I assume they are all men who created this sleaze) represent. we make child molesters inform the neighborhoods that they move into about their past indiscretions, so I think we should make these guys do the same thing.
You've never heard of dead baby jokes? Here's some, but they're too awful to post directly. (Copy and paste them into http://www.rot13.com to decode them.)
Doug
If they are too awful to post directly, then why did you post them?
I think you proved the point why awful topics haven't caught on as cultural memes.
If it's wrong to say it, then that's probably because it is wrong to say it.
thank god ya'll are out here, making sure no one makes any attempt at humor relating to anything relevant or universal. Sarah Silverman has made a career out of material like this. Lighten the fuck up.
Gawd, Pengo, you're so right! How dare we have a problem with a video that endorses date rape? Given that date rape is certainly a relevant issue, portraying it in video form as normal and even funny should be totally A-OK.
You're right. Now I think the real solution to the tension of this situation isn't to discuss the issue with one another, but instead to just lighten the fuck up.
Now that you've caused me to see it THAT way, I totally find date rape hilarious. Thank you.
My boyfreidn and I just watched this together.... he was appalled. We both flagged it at YouTube. This made me feel sick and really sad/angry.
sorry that my comments are often late, but I like to take a balanced approached before forming an opinion, because I'm a moderate
I'm sorry? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but your statement seems to imply that those of us who lean more left or right are not interested in having a balanced approach to forming our opinions.
All of Sarah Silverman's jokes are on her, but in this date rape clip the "joke" is on the woman who got raped. I don't think anyone finds a woman who got date raped a funny matter.
Never in my life will I lighten up about date rape, because it is evil and criminal.
Laughing about date rape is like laughing about environmental destruction. I don't see too many people laughing about oil slicked seals, or the fact that New Orleans is disappearing into the rising sea levels.
"seems to imply that those of us who lean more left or right are not interested in having a balanced approach to forming our opinions."
Sorry I implied that. By saying that I was a moderate I meant to mean that I never form a knee jerk reaction.
In all honesty I am a political and social progressive, but I am at least willing to listen to the other side before I make up my mind. Prehaps morderator rather than moderate would have a better term to use.
Why post them? Well, to show that the jokes exist, and because I have a strong urge to tell everybody everything even if it wouldn't be in my best interest to do so. Ever had a secret that you shouldn't tell but you were dying to let out? Like, um... the Harry Potter book 6 spoiler? I almost ruined that for my mom, I could barely control myself.
(I also encoded them because I was afraid that if I didn't, my post would get deleted. Jokes this sick tend to attract post deleters.)
Sorry Feliza that still didn't come the way I wanted it to.
Anyone can be balanced, and anyone can listen to all sides, but I don't know how to express that I always listen to all sides before forming an opinion.
Also I meant to say moderator not morderator.
"Ever had a secret that you shouldn't tell but you were dying to let out?"
No. My job is to keep secrets, and I avoid people who are unable to speak without thinking first. Before you speak you should ask yourself "is it wrong to say to this?" And if the answer is yes, then don't say it.
We all say the wrong things sometimes (I did a little bit ago on this string), but big gaffs, like date rape is acceptable, can be put to an end well before they are put to camera.
I don't know why I have this urge to tell everybody everything (apparently it's a common trait among engineers), but I do. I can fight it, but it's almost like going on a diet; you know you shouldn't have that rich, delicious dessert, but it's just so tempting... I guess that means I should never become a doctor or lawyer, right?
P.S.: Soylent Green is people!
So basically, Doug S, you're a gossip? It's ok. OWN the label. Refer to yourself a gossip, especially at work. And then come back and tell us all how the other engineers reacted.
GOD, you humourless feminists! CLEARLY all the women in the video DESERVED to be raped or almost raped, because they dared to express their opinions, however pedestrian and mundane they might be!
I should write a song about entitled male pricks who think that women should just sit there and look pretty until it's time for them to lie there with their legs spread apart (and look pretty.) It can't be that hard - this guy's song objectively sucked and look at all the positive comments he got!
prairielily
You forgot to add "and if the pretty girl fall unconscious, make your entrance."
The progression of the song was sickening. It went from faining interest, to gaining interest, to gaining entrance. Any man who believes they should follow that path is not worth your time.
Why do (other) men think only about getting straight to goal, instead of enjoying the whole game. Conversation, sharing interest, and foreplay are all suppose to be fun (in fact on most dates, when I was single, those were all that I wanted).
I am reminded about the story of the young bull and the old bull sitting on top of hill looking down at a field of cows. The young bull says "hey, what do say we run down there and fuck one of them cows?" The old looks at the young bull with scorn, and says "No. We're going to walk down there and gradually fuck all them cows."
That is probably not the best message to give men (or even a very good one), but it is better than fain interest, gain interest, gain entrance.
i just can't believe this - i kind of thought it was funny, or at least understood why the beginning was funny (imagine the flip gender scenario) but i can't believe the ending. I mean, he's not just implying or hinting at raping her, he's saying that he's going to. It's unbelievable.
Yeah, it has been my experience, from what I have observed, that boring one-way conversation on heterosexual dates usually comes from the male member.
But how many women are going to stick around to sleep with a man who bores the hell out of them on a date? Also has a man's bisexuality ever turned you on (or caused you to ignore the fact that he is otherwise a dud)? The whole premise of the "Feigning Interest" song/skit was rather down, and at the beginning I thought it was sad rather than funny.
BTW, do drunken men really do anything for you?
Those are all rhetorical questions no need to answer.
I just wanted to share with y'all that TONIGHT at dinner, a member of the table was telling us how someone at her work wanted to bring a production of The Vagina Monologues to the area in order to raise funds for a rape crisis center.
One man at the table had never heard of TVM, and said (with a massive grin on his face), "what are they going to do, act out a rape on stage?" Those in the know, and those who know that crap like that is intolerable, said HELL NO that is not what it is. He then continues on with his fantasy of what the acting would look like...using girly voices, and then aggression. He was laughing the entire time. And because he is family, I had to hold back my anger, but I did express my discomfort by focusing on the fact that RAPE IS NOT FUNNY. He totally made me sick.
BonnieMiami, I've found that telling the jokester about the inverse laughter rule sometimes works. That's the rule which states that the more the teller of a joke is laughing, the less funny the actual joke is.
Turning to someone else at the table and telling them the inverse laughter rule in a loud voice works, too.
You've never heard of dead baby jokes...
Gosh, I recant my comparison. That was poorly considered.
I didn't look at the infanticide jokes. Lost a nephew to SIDS last year. Thanks, but no thanks, for sharing.
One theory on humor, that is, what makes something funny, is that it is a mild form of societal disapproval and can also signal a certain discomfort.
One theory of hostile intergroup humor is that the social discomfort one would normally feel in expressing real hostility toward a group against which you hold prejudice can be eased by cloaking this hostility in humor.
That is, humor justifies the expression of real hostility for which one fears disapprobation. It allows you to demean others without having to take responsibility for your prejudicial attitudes.
I don't know if I'm technically an engineer or not - I have the degree but no job - but yes, I suppose "gossip" is a good a description as any. Geek gossip may be different than other people's gossip, though. Ever seen a Kevin Smith movie? ;)
You have my sympathies on the death of your nephew, Peepers. I am so sorry.
Sadly, humor has it's own version of Rule 34. No matter what "it" is, someone, somewhere, is telling a joke about it.
I appreciate your kind words, EG.
Doug: I hope you can appreciate the difference between off-color humor and "humor" that demeans a group of people or justifies that group's oppression. That is more than just "off color." It is socially harmful and morally unjust.
Doug: I hope you can appreciate the difference between off-color humor and "humor" that demeans a group of people or justifies hostility/violence against that group. That is more than just "off color." It is socially harmful and morally unjust.
re: Dead baby jokes (sorry to prolong this topic!)
People make jokes about really sad, uncomfortable things as a way to cope with them, hence the ubiquitousness of dead baby jokes. I'm neither defending nor condeming them, just explaining to an extent why they exist.
The difference is, when a baby dies, no one actually makes a joke. When a woman is raped however, people still make jokes and comments "she was asking for it", "she shouldn't have been drinking", etc. Therefore one type of joke is attempting to humorize the unthinkable, the other type- as demonstrated by this video, is attempting to normalize behavior that is already normalized in our culture.
Thanks ShifterCat for the comment back...I feel like I am aggressive in so many ways, but when it comes to people closest to, I have a hard time coming up with ways to tell them to stop being so ignorant.
In fact, any advice from everyone here would be awesome, because I can imagine that many of us have folks in our lives who are sexist, racist, prejudiced, etc, and air it to the world -- even when we have told them that our life's journey is to eradicate isms...
Yes, joana francesca! Thank you.
I'd wager that it was probably not a deliberate goal of the video's creator to help normalize rape. However, normalize it does.
It also smacks of justification. It says:Women deserve to be raped because they are dull and self-centered. Raping women is fine, as long as women don't know you think so. Rape is a normal outcome of dating. It also says a bunch of nasty stuff about men.
The humor in which these statements are couched absolves its author for any responsibility for them.
As you poing out, there are important differences between laughing at sad, uncomfortable things and laughing at victimization. People don't typically imply that they support and encourage dead babies. A family that includes one can usually expect not to be shamed for it. Nobody has the adudacity to imply that the bitch baby deserved it.
"One theory of hostile intergroup humor is that the social discomfort one would normally feel in expressing real hostility toward a group against which you hold prejudice can be eased by cloaking this hostility in humor.
That is, humor justifies the expression of real hostility for which one fears disapprobation. It allows you to demean others without having to take responsibility for your prejudicial attitudes."
Word, Peepers. I'm going to use that in my daily life, word for word if I can remember it, if it's OK with you.
bonnieMiami, I feel your pain. I guess I am just harsher, though, because I feel especially justified in getting angry with a family member for acting like a sexist / misogynist asshole, and pointing out the assholery directly, rather than holding back. It is tricky to effect the right balance of teaching someone without necessarily shaming them--I am still trying to figure this out. In my experience, the shaming part can get in the way of deeper learning, even if it's more satisfying (for me). Tricky.
Doug S., I'm shocked to hear you don't have a job. *Shocked*, I tell you. Loved how you immediately played the Sarah Silverman card (aka "Look, women tell rape jokes too!"). Allow me to let you in on something. I don't think Sarah Silverman's rape jokes are funny either - although someone made the point above that (at the very least) the subject of said jokes is always HER. In my mind, potty mouth is her schtick. "Rape" to her is just another "bad", taboo word (like every swear word, like "tits," and "poop" and "whore" and "AIDS", anything you'd hear a 6-year-old say with delight because they can tell it's naughty and dangerous), so she sticks it in her act. Doesn't mean it's funny or "OK" because she is a woman, nor does it make it analogous to what this guy did in this video.
And yes, dead baby jokes exist, and I guess pedophile jokes exist too (or maybe just the one quoted upthread, I've never seen or heard one before, to be honest). However, have you ever seen a YouTube "comedy" video about child sexual abuse or infanticide? No? If someone dared make one, do you think it would be lauded and acclaimed as hilarious or witty or clever social commentary? Because I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. There's a world of difference between 1) the hushed or hidden exchange of hate speech / gross jokes between deviant freaks on the fringe, and 2) the content deemed acceptable for the very public, popular, high-traffic, socially "normative" YouTube. Lots of things in the domain of the former wouldn't get tolerated, let alone applauded, in the latter. Violence against women, though, is an exception.
Whoops. Please replace YouTube with MySpace in my previous post.
Can I also just say, off-topic, I don't get what's supposed to be so brilliant/rebellious/witty about Sarah Silverman. She...makes jokes about poop? Um, OK. Comedy genius.
Lots of things in the domain of the former wouldn't get tolerated, let alone applauded, in the latter. Violence against women, though, is an exception.
Sigh. You're so freaking right. I certainly doubt anyone who would speak out against those hypothetical videos would be dismissed as just one of those "feminist bull-dykes" that are "just jealous because no man wants them" (quotes from MySpace) who should just "lighten the fuck up" (quote from here).
Why? Because, for some reason, there's something ingrained in our society that continuously implies that there's something "wrong" with women and they need to be punished. Not so with babies and children--and for good reason, of course.
And hey, this is also a little off-topic but... actually, I believe Sarah Silverman did an interview not too long ago and talked a bit about how her persona is kind of a female Archie Bunker-type. Or was it just the magazine make a comparison between the shows? Hm.
The difference is, when a baby dies, no one actually makes a joke. When a woman is raped however, people still make jokes and comments "she was asking for it", "she shouldn't have been drinking", etc. Therefore one type of joke is attempting to humorize the unthinkable, the other type- as demonstrated by this video, is attempting to normalize behavior that is already normalized in our culture.
Sadly, it's not really a joke when people say "she was asking for it." It's actual justification.
I think another difference between things like dead baby jokes and rape jokes comes from the implied separation from reality. Yes, I've heard plenty of jokes and even seen comedic videos that basically amount to "I eat babies" or something along those lines, but they all rely on an understanding that it's too outlandish to be true. Rape jokes still don't have that sort of societal taboo where it's inconceivable that somebody would actually do such a thing.
On the other hand, and I know that some people will strongly disagree with me, but a joke about a three-year-old "totally asking for it, look how she's dressed" seems to me a whole lot better than this video. Why? Because it does fall into that same societal taboo, and lampoons the idea that ANYONE can be "asking for it."
So I guess that I think a "joke" can be made out of anything. The problem is that society (and the video) doesn't treat the action as though it is obviously outlandish and awful and wrong, but as something commonplace and justifiable.
Sorry, that's not actually a different point, just a longer-winded version.
Re: Sarah Silverman: A lot of her jokes do fall flat to me when I see a lot of her in a row, but some of them do really stand out, and I think it's because they mock real-life behaviour. She had an extended monologue that went something like: "I swear I'm not racist. I once dated a guy who was half black. Oh my god, I totally just heard myself say that. I'm such a pessimist, he was half white." And so on to say that when she told him he probably would have been a really expensive slave back when, he got offended. Because he totally couldn't take a compliment. The humor lies in that it obviously WAS racist and awful, but "she" was completely unaware that her own perception of black people was wrong.
Her poop jokes I don't like so much.
I hope I can appreciate the difference too; I know I'm not the most perceptive person in the world and I don't always know exactly where the line is, but there's always someplace that the line clearly isn't. Trying to get as close as possible to that line without crossing it almost always ends up hurting someone, and I've had the misfortune of seeing that happen.
As I said earlier, just because it's theoretically possible to make a funny joke out of practically anything doesn't keep telling that joke from being a horrible thing to do. Being funny and being moral have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and if I had to choose between them, I'd rather be moral than funny.
The most horrifying thing of all about horrible jokes is that no matter how horrible something is, someone, somewhere, has put it on the Internet thinking it's funny. Like this video, for example. :(
Word, Peepers. I'm going to use that in my daily life, word for word if I can remember it, if it's OK with you.
You bet, Charity! I certainly don't own the notion. I didn't even help develop it. I'd wager that the people who did would be pleased if it made a difference in your daily life. I'm glad I could pass it on.
Joanna Russ put it very succinctly: she said that when someone uses humour as a cover for hostility, and tries to excuse it with "Can't you take a joke?" what that person is really saying is: "I find jokes about you funny. Why don't you find jokes about you funny?"
Friendly ribbing is taking someone down a peg or two. Hostility humour is kicking someone when they're already down.
BonnieMiami, I actually have a serious case of l'esprit d'escalier -- I tend to think up my best ripostes well after the fact.
Still, here's another one: a radio show I was listening to referred to a comic who laughs before he's checked his audience's reaction as "a premature e-joke-ulator".
ShifterCat: I find the "Glare of Death" works well.
If he'd had the comedic sense to end the video with him looking frustrated when she passed out, it would have been a funny skit. Not brilliant, for sure, but just a vaguely amusing, albeit overly trite, gag video on a horribly boring date. You could call it misogynistic, but I could make basically the same video from a woman's perspective, so you can't blame him for being a man doing it from a man's perspective.
Except the rape scene that should have been edited out, of course. That doesn't go both ways. That's why rape is about as funny as lynching.
Sorry if this is a really long post but I think the reaction to this vid and the discussion highlight some important points. I do find the video offensive. I think the point already made about desensitizing people to injustice through “humor� is dead-on. The male character is looking at serious jail time.
I also notice that toward the end of the song, the actress does a couple of pantomime asides. She gives a look of bemused shock and dismay as the lyrics imply the man is going to help himself. Then, with the line “as far as you know,� she gives a big smile and a double thumbs-up. The meaning of her gesture could be: “don’t worry, he was a perfect gentleman, he let me sleep on the couch, pointed me to the shower in the morning and made me breakfast. The meaning could also be: “I wanted to sleep with him but didn’t want him to think me a slut so I pounded a few extra drinks and let nature take its course.�
Here is a story from my younger days: I dated a woman in college and we had lots of fun, consensual sex. We broke up eventually and as we parted, we both agreed that we would miss the sex. After a few months, we ran into each other on campus and had a glass of wine. We wound up checking into a hotel to give the walls a good rattling and fell asleep in each others arms. The next morning, we both had places to be and parted with a shrug as to what the evening meant. I called her later that day and said something like “Wow, last night, wow.� I was stunned when she claimed to have no idea what I was talking about. She made no accusations that I had done anything wrong but simply disavowed any recollection of the evening, saying she had been drunk. (Now seriously, ONE glass of wine each, no drain cleaner slipped in, nothing like that.) She was using an ages old feminine privilege of claiming that any sex that may or may not have taken place was solely at the initiation of the male and none of her responsibility in order to escape any awkwardness and head off any mistaken notions of reconciliation. I can laugh at it now; I understand how she must have felt but at the time it was excruciating.
The point is that the “men on offense, women on defense� meme is alive and well and that is why “feigning interest� resonates as it does. Some women are more than happy to keep playing by the archaic rules that shaped sexual relationships for most of human history. A gender inversion of this video might have had a group of women ditching their boring dates and sneaking off for a “hen-night.� The surprise ending would have had the women’s collective tab dropped in front of the singer’s date. His punishment for being a bad date would be having to pay without getting sex while the woman’s punishment in the actual vid was having to provide sex without romance (or even consent, yuck.) It is a gross asymmetry that the crime is perpetrated against the man’s wallet and the woman’s body.
Hopefully, the world will march on toward enlightenment and grown-up people can enjoy sex without feeling the need to “scam� each other.
(attn mod: if this is a dupe, please delete one of them, my browser threw an error.)
Sorry if this is a really long post but I think the reaction to this vid and the discussion highlight some important points. I do find the video offensive. I think the point already made about desensitizing people to injustice through “humor� is dead-on. The male character is looking at serious jail time.
I also notice that toward the end of the song, the actress does a couple of pantomime asides. She gives a look of bemused shock and dismay as the lyrics imply the man is going to help himself. Then, with the line “as far as you know,� she gives a big smile and a double thumbs-up. The meaning of her gesture could be: “don’t worry, he was a perfect gentleman, he let me sleep on the couch, pointed me to the shower in the morning and made me breakfast. The meaning could also be: “I wanted to sleep with him but didn’t want him to think me a slut so I pounded a few extra drinks and let nature take its course.�
Here is a story from my younger days: I dated a woman in college and we had lots of fun, consensual sex. We broke up eventually and as we parted, we both agreed that we would miss the sex. After a few months, we ran into each other on campus and had a glass of wine. We wound up checking into a hotel to give the walls a good rattling and fell asleep in each others arms. The next morning, we both had places to be and parted with a shrug as to what the evening meant. I called her later that day and said something like “Wow, last night, wow.� I was stunned when she claimed to have no idea what I was talking about. She made no accusations that I had done anything wrong but simply disavowed any recollection of the evening, saying she had been drunk. (Now seriously, ONE glass of wine each, no drain cleaner slipped in, nothing like that.) She was using an ages old feminine privilege of claiming that any sex that may or may not have taken place was solely at the initiation of the male and none of her responsibility in order to escape any awkwardness and head off any mistaken notions of reconciliation. I can laugh at it now; I understand how she must have felt but at the time it was excruciating.
The point is that the “men on offense, women on defense� meme is alive and well and that is why “feigning interest� resonates as it does. Some women are more than happy to keep playing by the archaic rules that shaped sexual relationships for most of human history. A gender inversion of this video might have had a group of women ditching their boring dates and sneaking off for a “hen-night.� The surprise ending would have had the women’s collective tab dropped in front of the singer’s date. His punishment for being a bad date would be having to pay without getting sex while the woman’s punishment in the actual vid was having to provide sex without romance (or even consent, yuck.) It is a gross asymmetry that the crime is perpetrated against the man’s wallet and the woman’s body.
Hopefully, the world will march on toward enlightenment and grown-up people can enjoy sex without feeling the need to “scam� each other.
Jessi, I see the point you're trying to make, but there are cases where judges have found that a five year old was in fact "asking for it" and ruled accordingly.
UGH. this makes me sick
UGH. this makes me sick
How many men does it take to open a beer?
None. It should be opened when she brings it.
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Why is a Laundromat a really bad place to pick up a woman?
Because a woman who can't even afford a washing machine will probably never be able to support you.
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Why do women have smaller feet than men?
It's one of those "evolutionary things" that allows them to stand closer to the kitchen sink.
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How do you know when a woman is about to say something smart?
When she starts a sentence with "A man once told me."
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How do you fix a woman's watch?
You don't. There is a clock on the oven.
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Why do men fart more than women?
Because women can't shut up long enough to build up the required pressure.
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If your dog is barking at the back door and your wife is yelling at the front door, who do you let in first?
The dog, of course. He'll shut up once you let him in.
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What's worse than a Male Chauvinist Pig?
A woman who won't do what she's told.