Blurring of the genders. 'Cause remember kids, if it don't bleed it ain't really a woman. But then, also don't forget that you can't trust anything that bleeds for seven days and doesn't die. I'm getting mixed messages here.

Oh, if only I could partake. It gets tempting, every time another period-stopped shows up on the market, to give it a whirl, but my family has a long history of issues with hormonal treatments for periods [including the original Pill, which gave my mother wicked migraines and hospitalized her for three days]. I accept my period as an inevitability and pretty much just take it as it comes, but the chance to cut off the flow? Oh, my, yes.

Of course, I would immediately follow up by donning flannel, chopping off my hair, and buying a pair of Birkenstocks. That's how this works, right?

Do you smile and talk to your friends about the cramps, the mood swings, and the like?

Yeah, Eugene, I totally love to gossip about the pains of menstruation with my friends every month. And it makes me feel so totally "in."

What the hell? I love the way he manages to make it sound like having your period is like waking up to find yourself in the pages of The Gossip Girls, or The Clique. Oh my god! (squeals) it's, like, my dream come true!!

* * *

I've never had a really hard time with my cycle, and actually kind of like the rhythm of it. Since I'm not on hormonal birth control at the moment, I'm not going to rush out and get the new stuff. But (as has been said here before), as long as it's medically safe, there's no reason why women shouldn't have the option of foregoing their cycles if they want to.

My one worry is that a sort of stigma might become attached to women who choose to go on bleeding. Kind of like women who choose unmedicated, unhospitalized childbirth?? Thoughts anyone?

* * *

About femaleness. I remember being awed when I first got my period (I was maybe 14?) and realized I now had the capacity to be pregnant. It sparked a several-year obsession with midwifery, pregnancy and childbirth, and the cultural narratives of motherhood. So yeah, I guess you could say that my reproductive capacity (as evidenced, in part by my cycle) is a central part of my female-ness. Part of what makes me aware of my biological sex. But so do my breasts and hips, my clitoris and vagina. Hard to imagine how the cessation of bleeding would challenge my bodily identity.

And last I checked . . . "womanhood" is defined in our culture by a hell of a lot more than by our bodies. So I'm not holding out hope for the demise of "feminine" and "masculine" in the cultural lexicon. If I thought that by stopping my period, I could help erase the concept of gender from the planet, I'd probably run out and buy me some pills TODAY.

I'll define my identity myself, thanks.

It's the opposite of feminism (and humanism) to tell other people who they are.

The continuous use pill has been approved in the United States and is awaiting approval in Canada. At the same time, estrogen has been designated a known carcinogen, new research reveals how the pill alters the libido (possibly irreversibly), and more women are dying from strokes and blood clots and suffering extensive bone lose from new methods of hormone delivery. As pharmaceutical companies increase their market for lifestyle drugs and inform women that they do not need to menstruate, we must stop and look at the facts and consider what is not yet known and what kind of impact this could have. Just as in the past, ‘the personal is political’ and this battle over women’s bodies and natural processes could have devastating affects on a future generation of young women.

The pill companies want to get rich by telling you menstruating is so horrible. But really, your menstrual cycle helps keep you healthy. Estrogen is a natural anti-depressant. As your hormones ebb and flow, your moods can change but often in very positive ways. Some times in the month I am more creative, others more reflexive and definitely when I'm ovulating, I'm horny.

There are so many dangers to ending menstruation that we already know about. Ask the women who took Depo-provera and now have osteoporosis or the ones who didn’t get their period for more than a year after they stopped taking it. And there are also so many things we don't know about yet. Remember when they told menopausal women that taking hormones was the answer to all their pains? We don't know how this added estrogen will effect developing girls, and we know that there are male fish that produce eggs in some waters because of all the unprocessed estrogen we pee out when taking the pill. Women on depo have described the drug as a chemical menopause. Is dry vagina and no sex drive worth it to stop your period?

Also, as the pharmaceutical companies make billions of dollars in profits every year promoting hormonal contraception, Aids, STD’s and HPV rates continue to rise. Research into other forms of birth control has been cut in half since the 1970’s and products like microbicides that could potentially offer protection against both sexually transmitted diseases and infections as well as pregnancy are stifled by the lack of funding. A revolution in birth control options that do not include hormones and protect against diseases is more important now than ever. The continuous pill is a drug promoted as making your life better that could cause a stroke, severe bone loss or lack of sex drive in order to line the already ginormous coffers of the drug companies.

While clearly some women who suffer from very horrible and painful menstruation would benefit from this type of medical intervention, can’t women with healthy periods embrace them? We don’t need more propaganda on what’s ‘wrong’ with our bodies and how they can be controlled by modern drugs and medicine. I feel reminded of the days when women couldn’t practice medicine because it was believed that if one touched meat when she was menstruating, she would spoil it. All the messages that are coming with the advertising campaigns will revolve around creating hatred of your body’s natural processes.

[O.K. so I have spent the last 3 years of my life researching this for a documentary and I am a bit passionate about it. But please learn about the continuous pill (and not from the pharmaceutical companies and doctors on their pay roll) before considering it.

so, uh if not having my period makes me more like a man, why didn't i get a raise and a promotion when i had my oophrectomy?

i 'lost' my period during two rounds of chemo (and then it returned) only to be squelched permanently. Amazingly enough i found things in common with my women friends even though i could no longer gossip and smile about the visit of my 'little friend'. its such a male view to assume we all talk at length about our periods and that it makes us feel cliquish and maybe even superior - sort of like gloria steinhem's quote about how if men got their periods they'd be boasting about it in terms of how long and how much. Perhaps if HE got his period, HE'd smile and talk about it and generally feel cliquish.

Now if only they would make these pills OTC, rather than the long request to daddy (doctors and pharmacists), I would be in business. As it stands, I may have to give in to the medico-pharmaceutical complex. It will be worth it to end what Eugene envisions as some sort of pajama party, but increasingly becomes like what Ann describes above.

On a completely silly note, did they really name this pill "Lybrel"--like the phonetic version of "Liberal"? ...Why? What message are they trying to convey? Stop menstruating and start supporting civil liberties?

Okay, does anyone else now have that instrumental song "The In Crowd" stuck in their heads?

I am also leery of hormonal birth control, as a personal matter, because it really screwed me up for the second of the two months I took it. Regardless of what you think about the benefits/harms of the pill, I am with Terra--I think we need to do more to research other methods (particularly barrier methods) and make them safer and more effective. And bring on the microbicides. Please!

Awesome post, Terra. I'm also in the "it it ain't broke, don't fit it" camp ;o).

Where can we find out more about your documentary?

And already the talk about hating our bodies comes out. Why do we have to be considered to hate our bodies just to want to get rid of a period? It's messy, it interrupts my sex life, it's painful, and it's generally irritating. What's to like about any of that? Just because it's natural to get one doesn't mean it's enjoyable.

I'd take one of those no-period pills if it weren't for the fact that I don't need birth control anymore.

great posts, anna and terra.

I've always been for blurring the gender lines. 1st wavers were not, except for the radicals--elizabeth cady stanton, matilda joslyn gage, lillie devereux blake. the 2nd wave was all about blurring the lines. and i've learned from the 3rd wavers the importance of acknowledging difference and demanding change to accommodate it, but i've always been cautious about emphasizing difference, because it seems inevitable that it is used to establish a hierarchy and impose discriminations. Now this issue makes clear that the patriachy is indeed invested in clearly defined gender differences. It sounds so dumb on the surface: "its arrival marks yet another step toward the blurring of the genders" but this statement is indicative of how important gender difference is in maintaining the status quo.

the above is kind of off topic, i suppose, but it's what came to mind when reading the post.

like you, anna, i appreciated the cycle of the cycle-- i had so much creative energy during those few days before menstruating that i amazed even myself. that's when I accomplished most of my writing. of course i'm one of those possibly stigmatized women who experienced unmedicated childbirth!!!!!!! as terra advocates, whenever possible, I'm for the natural over the pharmacological.

There was me thinking that the fact I have to take pills to stop my periods was a pretty good marker of being a woman.

There was me thinking having periods to stop was a pretty good marker of being a woman...

There was me thinking having periods to stop was a pretty good marker of being a woman...

There was me thinking having periods to stop was a pretty good marker of being a woman...

Yeah I felt "in" when I first got my period when I was 15 cause I was the last to do so, but I realized very soon after that that I could have happily gone another year or so without it. Now my birth control pills keep me regular and dry for the most part. The only reason I like to see it is to know I'm not pregger.

It seems to me, Kimmy, that there are two connected issues here. a) There's the unfair characterization of women who wish to be period-free as "hating" their bodies; b) then there are very real health concerns about the effects of hormonal birth control. These two get tangled up together when it comes to the medical-cultural history of pathologizing women's reproductive health.

So yeah, we have the right to live without our periods, but what are the cultural pressures and narratives surrounding that choice? If we're taking significant health risks because we just don't like our periods, that seems like kind of a bad trade-off. And it seems appropriate for feminists to raise the question of why we are altering the processes of our bodies this way. We don't have to dictate, in the end, what the "good" or "bad" decision is--but it seems legitimate to challenge ourselves to reflect on why we make the choices we do.

like you, anna, i appreciated the cycle of the cycle

Nice way of putting it Grace. Since I've had pretty easy cycles, it's a good low-key way for me to be mindful of inhabiting my body. Clearly, though, it's largely the luck of the draw. I have friends who really struggle with the ups and downs.

I've had sooooo many conversations with my female friends (and some male friends) about this pill in the last few months.... everybody's got an opinion.

A few years ago I stopped my period for about a year by taking the regular pill continuously because I have endometriosis and the pain was driving me insane and keepng me bedridden for basically the 1st and 2nd days of my period. But after dosing myself with hormones every day for an extended period of time, I decided I'd rather have the pain. I actually missed my period, not the cramps, but the feeling that my mody was doing what it needed to do. Plus that was around the time my mom got breast-cancer from hormone replacement therapy and I decided to go off hormonal contraception because I'm already at a higher risk for breast cancer.

I used to work for a market research firm and a few of our clients were pharmaceutial companies that were developing this (and competing versions) pill and trying to figure out how to market it pending FDA approval. The marketing really really really bothered me and I think as a result I have a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing.

And after having a lot of conversations with women who are freaked out by the continuous pill, I'm bothered by dialogue on both sides of it.

On the pro-pill side I'm annoyed by the anti-period talk. Like the "Yippee, periods are yucky, I'm glad I don't have to think about it anymore." Because while a lot of women(myself included) have a lot of issues with their periods, there's a difference between hating the pain and the complications and hating/being ashamed of the whole idea of it. And since most of the marketing that I saw at my old job was created by men, a lot of it had the "periods are gross" undertones.

On the other hand, I get annoyed with the touchy-feely "how lovely to be a woman" crap. Because on behalf of pre-pubescent, post-menopausal, and trans-women, I resent the idea that a period makes you more feminine or that you can't love being a woman while wanting to stop doubling over in pain 2 days out of every month.

having said all that, I think Terra made a lot of really good points and no matter what women decide about this pill, it's important to make informed health care decisions. Pharmaceutical companies don't want us to do that, so the hype about the pill isn't going to be totally straight-forward.

While I don't think this is particularly more dangerous than the pills before (since those periods are unnecessary anyway), there are always risks associated with taking hormones. I respect every woman's right to choose whether or not she wants to assume those risks and I trust that women who have access to the information necessary to make informed decisions will do so.

Ok, I'm done now. Sometime I start typing and my fingers just won't quit.

This confirms the idea I had before:
I surrender that people who produce these types of BC DO actually think (in whatever backwards way) that they're helping women. But that's because the only way for a woman to really be seen as powerful is to be "like a man" and menstruation is still seen as an icky thing that reminds men and women that they're different.

Whatever.
I'm not going to say that I enjoy my period in its entirety. There are aspects that are annoying, but even those can be comforting. What I do like about my period is that I always get it, it's usually on time and it lets me know that everything down there is ok. I don't want to have a baby right now, so it helps me keep that in check. Plus for a woman my age, it's a healthy signal. If I didn't get it, I'd be worried.

Plus I heard a doctor on the news say that these kinds of pills increase spotting, so you're really exchanging scheduled bleeding for unscheduled bleeding. Sounds like more of a hassle to me!
Though I actually heard another doctor say that there's no "medical reason" for monthly bleeding. Puh! By whose medicine?! Not nature's....

Personally, I would suggest not taking a new pill until it's been throughly proven. It's not worth the risk.

Thank you for posting this. I was waiting for the feminist viewpoint.

Call me divorced from my body, but I see nothing pleasant about a period. Pads are uncomfortable, tampons more so (I'm a little tilted). I dislike the cramps and the mood swings. And the actual feeling of it.

Nobody had to tell me any of these things. Nobody brainwashed me into thinking it. I came to that conclusion because I am a rational human being who can determine that it's better to not have to deal with the mess and the pain than to have to deal with it.

You may disagree, that's fine. But it doesn't mean I hate my body, it doesn't mean someone convinced me it was "yucky," and it doesn't make me any less of a woman to feel that way.

Isn't it ever possible to just disagree about something like this without drawing these conclusions about the people on the other side of the question?

I use the patch to reduce the number of periods I have to about three per year (those ones usually happening just because I'm too busy that particular week to get out to the pharmacy). The reason why pills like this and Seasonale/ique appeal to me is because they do away with the hassles that using the traditional hormonal methods for extended periods can bring, such as wrestling with insurance companies when it looks like you've been getting your birth control too often. However, reading up on Lybrel I"m hesitant to change because a) I'm a big fan of just putting on a patch and not having to think about it for a week and b) a third of the women dropped out of clinical trials because of "excessive" break through bleeding. So while the pill completely suppressed the periods of 59% of the final test group...that's a significantly smaller number than the original test group. So for now, I'm going to stick with just using my patch continuously until someone figures out a better solution.

"Isn't it ever possible to just disagree about something like this without drawing these conclusions about the people on the other side of the question?"

I certainly think that it is, Kimmy. My post was mainly a reaction to the ABC response that "It's unclear whether women will embrace this new pill, which contains the same formulations of estrogen and progestin used for birth control pills for decades, but its arrival marks yet another step toward the blurring of the genders." I was on my 'differences' hobby-horse.

I'm also personally leary of hormones and their possible effects, having had, like Colleen's mom, a probably hormone-induced breast cancer. Not fun.

THANK YOU, Kimmy. If I'd seen your comment before I posted mine I would have included this in that message. But I feel the EXACT same way. It doesn't take a lifetime of brainwashing to figure out that if something causes you pain you're not going to like it; it is something that rational human beings figure out by themselves.

Just want to reiterate that I in no way believe that all women should be taking hormonal contraceptives. Obviously, I'm for every individual woman choosing what works for her.

There is no FDA official forcing me to take Lybrel. Nearly every article I've read about the pill explains that the jury is still out on the long-term effects. Women are grown-ups who can weigh risks and benefits of taking a newly approved drug. I'm not trying to say I have undying faith in Big Pharma to tell me when their products are going to be harmful. But in this case, I think it's been made clear that there may be health risks associated with taking this drug.

Allowing women the choice not to menstruate is NOT the same thing as saying women's bodies are disgusting and filthy. I completely respect the choice of women who like getting their period -- for whatever reason -- and want to continue to do so. But I'm like Kimmy. For me, menstruating is not a big part of my gender identity. It doesn't make me feel "dirty" -- it's just an inconvenience. And yes, I absolutely love my body.

And this...

All the messages that are coming with the advertising campaigns will revolve around creating hatred of your body’s natural processes.

Like Amanda, I'm incredibly wary of advocating for anything on the basis of it being "natural." So much conservative religious and political rhetoric is built on the "natural." Contraception? Not natural. Any sex that isn't procreative, between a man and a woman? Not natural. Women not wanting to have children, not feeling maternal at all? Not natural. Etc. Etc. And while I can certainly understand the health-feminist definition of "natural" vs. the conservative definition, these lines can get blurred pretty easily, and before you know it, Tony Perkins is going, "Even the feminists think contraception is unnatural!" or some such thing.

For anyone who reads sci-fi/fantasy, there is a great short story by an author named Connie Willis in her collection of short stories called "Impossible Things." The story is called "Even the Queen" and it is about a world where women opt out of their period and the ones that decide not to are considered part of a cult called "The Cyclists." It is pretty entertaining (and mildly hilarious if I remember correctly, but it's been awhile since I read it). She wrote it in 1992. Anyway, the whole book is a good read but I thought I would pass it along if anyone was interested.

As for me, I just would feel uneasy not getting my period due to hormonal tampering. But that is just me, I have no judgment for women who "opt out." It's all about choice. :)

William Saletan wrote about this yesterday, saying that menstruation itself is "unnatural" 'cause women's bodies are biologically designed to be preggers all the time, anyway.

*headdesk*

But I get pissed off when it's implied that I'm self-hating or somehow out of touch with my body and my gender because I don't like the monthly visit from Cap'n Bloodsnatch.

And yet, it didn't take long at all...

[...]can’t women with healthy periods embrace them?

I am one of those women who had a regular, healthy period and usually I will go with the regular cycle of having a period every four weeks. Not because it's something I enjoy or *love* just 'cause I got a big ole womb, but because if I went straight through I'd go through my pills a lot faster.

What gets me about terra's post is in her rant against big pharma she lumps every woman into one catergory, as if EVERY woman taking any kind of birth control pill has a dry vagina and no sex drive. Sorry terra but I don't like it when men and the right wing lump us all together as if we weren't individuals so I'm going to pull myself out of your equation.

I have been on the pill for seven straight years. I went on the pill before my freshman year of college (helped by my mother who took me to her gyno:). I spoke with my doctor and she helped me pick out the best method for me because she knew there was a history of blood clotting in my family.

I am happy to say the pill has not affected my sex drive and I get just as wet now as before I took the pill. I will admit that I don't get that ultra horny sensation like when I had a few days before my "normal" period, but I don't mind that because it was just my womb going, "WE NEED TO FUCK RIGHT NOOOOOW SO I CAN GET A BABBBBBBBY!!!"

Seeing as the point is to NOT have a baby I'm totally okay with that.

Not every woman is the same. If there are women on Depo who have the dryness and the lack of sex drive well guess what, THEY NEED TO CHANGE THEIR BIRTH CONTROL. I shouldn't have talking to me like I'm a child who can't make up my own mind just because it doesn't work for another woman and someone has an ax to grind with pharmaceutical companies.

When it comes to menstruation it should be left to the individual woman. Some women find comfort in their periods and some find them yucky. And for the women who find them yucky there could be any number of reasons, not just necessarily that men tell women their periods are gross. That's what gets me about some of the counter arguments with posters just assuming that we should "discuss" this political as personal because it's always an outside influence that's informing women's decisions, not something they themselves are experiencing. They themselves might actually NO enjoy their own periods for reasons that are personal to THEM. It doesn't necessariy have to be "well it's because men are telling us we shouldn't like our periods." I know this might sound like sacrilege to some but it's true.

This might be TMI and I don't know about other women but my period doesn't smell so pleasant no matter what I do and when I'm at work I am fearful of other women coming behind me because it can get that strong. Sometimes it can be very messy and even though I'm on the pill I still get cramps every now and then and it's uncomfortable. I don't have cramps as bad as some other women who have serious medical conditions, but to me, what terra is saying is the equivalent to : "Well, we're only going to allow abortion for victims of rape and incest and health of the mother because they're the ones who REALLY need it, everyone else with a healthy pregnancy should just accept it as natural."

It's someone else dictating who should and should not be allowed to make decisions for themselves, for WHATEVER reasons. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them any less valid.

mirm, birth control is not going OTC pretty much ever. Know why? There are plenty of women who get high blood pressure from taking it, women who are at higher risk of blood clots or other bad side effects, and seeing a provider annually can catch the problem before it becomes too bad. Also, annual cervical cancer screenings (Pap smears) are important for sexually-active women. Bundling it is pretty easy.

On topic of the post, I dislike getting my period. Time was, I would bleed through a pad (back in middle school) and spend a day doubled over in pain & nausea. After I went on the pill in college, I'd bleed through a super tampon in 4 hours. I still would have cramps, but not as badly. Now I have an IUD that all but stops my menstruation.

I've never experienced this estrogen antidepressant thing. Then again, I also have had depressive mood changes in the week prior to my period.

This does not mean that I despise womanhood or hate my body. It means I find spending 1-2 days every 28-40 (I had a very irregular cycle) in pain to be unpleasant. It means I dislike the feeling of blood dripping. It means I dislike feeling mentally unbalanced at intervals I can't predict because my cycle is extremely irregular.

Is it me, or does the majority of women who say "It's great!" overlap with women who don't have endometriosis or other types of dysmenorrhea?

Just wanted to reiterate that I do not think that taking Lybrel (or otherwise choosing to stop your periods) = "hating" you body. And I don't think that periods a woman make.

What I was suggesting is that we should have a healthy dose of skepticism about how this pill is being marketed (Colleen, thanks for your post!). As with the HPV vaccine, and hormone replacement therapy, there are legitimate medical concerns about the effects of hormonal BC. Choosing to avoid hormones when possible doesn't mean we're automatically getting all glowy about the femininity of menstruation.

thisisendless: whenever this debate comes up, I think of "Even the Queen" ;o). Hilarious.

And P.S. . .

They themselves might actually NOT enjoy their own periods for reasons that are personal to THEM.

UltraMagnus, I agree. None of us are free of cultural narratives that inform our own personal "choices." I think skepticism is warranted on both sides of the issue.

Dang, wish I'd seen Ann's post before my rant. Darn:P Damn good post though, Ann!

Quick question: has anyone else ever not had the option of skipping the pretend period you get on birth control before? A few years ago, when I first started the Patch, my local CVS would not refill my prescription more than every 30 days, forcing me to take a week off and do the bleeding thing. I never really looked into this since I was happy to see blood as a sign I wasn't pregnant, but looking back it seems odd.

None of us are free of cultural narratives that inform our own personal "choices." I think skepticism is warranted on both sides of the issue.

So how a woman actually PHYSICALLY feels means nothing? annaj, I get where you're coming from but I'm going to disagree.

For the record, I love my birth control pills. They get rid of my menstrual cramps, they keep me from beig pregnant, and they're easy to use. This pill isn't going to make drug companies any more money than the normal birth control packs we take that include placebos - either way, you're buying a pill to take every day. They may charge more for this product if the demand sustains a higher prices, but wtf ever, eh?

And Lancastrian, I'm actually currently skipping my placebos. I did it for a while around my wedding, so I wouldn't be menstruating on my honeymoon, and I stopped because I was gaining weight - I wasn't sure if it was the constant pill-taking or if it was something else, but I figured it wasn't a big deal either way. I've skipped two periods so far and I don't feel any different. My period isn't a big deal anyway, so I'm not really sure if I want to bother buying 25% more pills over the year (since I have to buy the placebos with my current regimen) to skip my 3-ish day period that runs like clockwork. And I think I'm gaining weight again, which is odd because I decided to go vegetarian recently. I'll just wait and see...

I don't think that my period is "icky." I think that's it's painful and annoying. No, it's not exactly pretty, but I don't think "ew, blood" every time I change a tampon (in fact, I usually use sponges, so I'm clearly NOT grossed out by it).

That being said, I love my Seasonale, which allows me to have a period only once every three months. It has made my life happier by getting rid of the cramps and the general discomfort. Of course it's not for everyone; I too, though, take extreme exception to being accused of "hating" or "not knowing" my own body. I feel that I know my own body just fine, thank you very much-- well enough, in fact, to know what makes it feel best. And that means not bleeding and being tired and cranky and crampy every 20 something days.

I don't think that my period is "icky." I think that's it's painful and annoying. No, it's not exactly pretty, but I don't think "ew, blood" every time I change a tampon (in fact, I usually use sponges, so I'm clearly NOT grossed out by it).

That being said, I love my Seasonale, which allows me to have a period only once every three months. It has made my life happier by getting rid of the cramps and the general discomfort. Of course it's not for everyone; I too, though, take extreme exception to being accused of "hating" or "not knowing" my own body. I feel that I know my own body just fine, thank you very much-- well enough, in fact, to know what makes it feel best. And that means not bleeding and being tired and cranky and crampy every 20 something days.

I've been skipping my periods for a year now.

Lancastrian, I also ran into issues with inadequate insurance cycles for my cycles. Since I'm not gettin' busy, I'm just using the Ring to be period-free. It's awesome. Cultural narratives my ass. I used to get hella migraines when I took the week off, now I don't.

However, for the first time in years I've gained a significant amount of weight, and as I say, I'm safe on the baby front, so I'm going to try taking a break and see if I feel any different.

I bet I'm just eating too much, and within a month I'll be so pissed about dealing with bleeding that I'll go back on it for another year. $240 a year vs. $250k or however much it takes to raise a kid - yeah, it's worth my other "health" issues. Remember that having a child is a significant health risk itself to the majority of this planet.

Well, I never said anything about the physical experience being "nothing" UltraMagnus. The cultural shit is only one part of the equation. Absolutely our own bodily experience matters!

I don't think my own relative physical ease with my monthly cycles (for example) has anything to do with buying into the idea that it's somehow a womanly experience. The meaning I give that physical experience, and the choices I make about it, are shaped by the culture to a certain degree though. So it's a mixture.

hdawg: maybe we're onto something?

Kimmy I think you are getting the message loud and clear - 'if it bleeds, it's a woman' and 'if it bleeds and doesn't die, I don't trust it' are not mixed messages but the different versions of the larger message 'women are not to be trusted'.

yellownumber5 - I was asking about anyone else not having an option to skip periods due to inability to get hormonal birth control often enough to do so, but thank you for addressing me. It is nice to have the option to bleed or not bleed depending on what's going on in your life.

I really do think periods are icky, but I have a high squeamishness quotient when it comes to blood; I kind of get icked out by bleeding in general. I also will be the first person to tell you that I hate my body, but I'll also be the first person to tell you that I have legitimate reasons for doing so -- being disabled and in chronic pain leaves me wishing I could just upload my consciousness into a futuristic supercomputer somewhere, sometimes. Seems like I get much more trouble from my physicality than benefit, most of the time.

Having horrible painful, irregular periods is just the bongwater icing on that particular shit cake, as far as I'm concerned. Anything I can do to avoid even occasionally having one of those days where I'm a) taking painkillers for my old shoulder injury, b) having muscle spasms, c) having an allergy flare or sinus infection and d) feeling nauseated, crampy, cranky, exhausted, and bleeding through a regular maxi pad in 30 minutes, is a net good thing. Being on hormonal BC in the first place sure helps, skipping periods or no.

It hasn't raised my blood pressure any (ok, maybe it's up to 120/72 instead of 113/68, but that could be doctor's office anxiety), and I still find I have plenty of sex drive (on the days when I'm well-rested and pain-free enough to notice that I have genitalia). Frankly, all things considered, I'll take the low risk of health complications (I'm under 35, get regular exercise, don't smoke, and am not overweight) over the alternative.

Hello again,

Of course all women are different and diverse and I did not mean to come across as judging any decisions or lumping all women into one group.

All women should be able to make their own decisions based on their experiences with their own bodies. I just really think that women's health care is often neglected. Looking at HRT, very little long-term research was done before millions of women were exposed to dangers from increased risk of cancer. We have to have all the facts and information before we can make informed decisions and unfortunately, a lot of that information is not made available.

I know a lot of women hate or dislike their periods, and of course this does not mean they hate their body at all. But if you follow the advertising campaigns for the continous pill, which include interviews with women, comments from doctors, etc. a lot of the rhetoric is very negative. Like one campaign assumes that women who play sports can’t do so when they have their period and so they should suppress it in order to be able to play sports. That’s crazy. We know women can play sports while they menstruate. (It often even helps with cramps.) So what will happen if these are the messages going out all over the place? I thought we had moved past these ideas that menstruation causes you to go insane or be immobile.

Personally, I don't have the best period in the world. It hurts, I get very moody, I bleed like mad the first few days, but I have found that in thinking about my period in a different way, not as "a curse' but as something really fascinating that marks the end to a hormone cycle, I have really felt great about it.

I started researching this years back because I had terrible experiences with the pill. And OF COURSE not all women have bad experiences at all, but I found that when I spoke to doctors and raised my concerns, they were dismissed. "It's not the pill, it's you. Maybe life is just hard right now and THAT's why you cry everyday, not the estrogen." When I finally went to Planned Parenthood and said “I can't handle this anymore�, they suggested the IUD for me because I was in a committed relationship. (IUDs can be very dangerous if you are exposed to STDs) and the funny thing is, my doctor refused to give it to me because I was young and unmarried. I felt this was insane. PP gave me the IUD which I love. I like many women who want birth control, was told, just take the pill. And when I had problems, they were ignored. There are other options out there, but you would barely know about them.

Of course, this is all about choice and women will find what is best for them. I just wish we had more options. There is so little research being done on new forms of birth control and a big reason is the conservative push against birth control in the U.S. This is sad. And scary. We should have more options and those options should include protection against STDs as well. The technology is there in microbicides, buy the money to invest in this and make it a reality is not.

Anyhoo. Just a few thoughts. But I must say, I really really love that after I got off the pill, I personally felt a great connection with my body. I know when I am ovulating (horny), I know when my period is coming, 7 days away, I feel a little sad, two days away, I feel pretty short tempered, right before, knees ache, headache, morning of, really energized. All of these feelings and changes did not exist (for me) when my hormones were controlled by a steady does of estrogen.

And I guess that's why:

I LOVE MY PERIOD.

Personally. Without judgment.

One of the guys on the Volokh thread posted this really fascinating article from the New Yorker--http://www.gladwell.com/2000/2000_03_10_a_rock.htm

Mostly it is about the co-inventor of the pill, but it also addresses menstrual cycles of women in pre-industrial societies, where they had about 1/4 as many ovulatory events/periods as we do (so 100 in their lives as opposed to 400) and the strain that ovulation puts on our bodies. The article does not (and cannot) tell the whole story, but gives interesting insight into the medical issues around menstruating as we currently understand them.

There's a lot of evidence that historically it was not "natural" to get your period as many times in your life as we do now. Menstruation started later, due to poorer nutrition, and women spent so much of their lives pregnant or nursing that they got their periods only a couple dozen times over the entire course of their fertile lives. Compare that to 60 times over five years on the regular pill. I've seen some arguments (though I can't recall them now) that having our periods so much may not actually be that good for us.

For me personally, I wouldn't use the continuous pill. I take some comfort in getting my period, despite the discomfort, but real reason is that after many years using the pill, I decided not to use hormonal birth control anymore. I didn't have any major side effects. I just came to prefer not to take it.

But I think any great concern about the health effects of skipping periods is overblown.

Ismone beat me to my point. And with the data to back it up.

I've had two periods in eleven years, mostly due to a high-progestenic-action Pill (Ortho-Novum 1/35). Now I'm using the Mirena IUD for contraception, and don't expect to have periods with it, either.

Periods were never an issue for me prior to the Pill, as I didn't have bad ones; what got me was the PMDD. I couldn't function for about a week and a half out of every month. I started on the Pill coincidentally, then realized that the hormones kept me from having the premenstrual dysphoria that was crippling me.

For me, it's a quality-of-life question. Yeah, I may well end up with cancer of the whatever in the future due to long-term hormone use, but I've been able to *live* in the meantime. For me personally, the possibility of cancer in the future was worth the certainty of knowing that I wouldn't be curled up in the fetal position next week.

After I hit my late thirties, my PMDD symptoms decreased (I was off the Pill for a bit) and my family's history of clots and strokes became more of a concern. Hence the IUD.

I'll probably never have a period again. Do I miss it? Do I feel less "in"? Nah. I'm thankful that there were ways of dealing with my fucked-up brain chemistry that allowed me to not get pregnant at the same time. If not having a period's the price of that, I'm all over it.

I should probably stay out of this, but I feel like I should clarify my position because I'm not sure I was clear enough initially.

I absolutey understand that some women hate their periods and that's not the same thing as hating their bodies. I don't particularly revel in my period, but after stopping it for a while, I decided I'd rather have it. Just like Cara says her body feels better only having a period every few months with Seasonale, my body seems the most comfortable having a period every month, even though the period itself sucks a lot.

I get that it's easy to be defensive, particularly in feminist circles, if you don't like your period cause people are always hatin' on the woman who says she'd be happier without one. Just like some of the rhetoric around skipping periods...even in conversations I've had with my doctor...make me feel weird for not wanting to get rid of my period. I.E. women in the market research studies that i witnessed about the pill who didn't mind their periods were called "Endurers" and women who didn't want their periods anymore were called "Liberated". It's that shit that pisses me off. The idea that every woman hates her period and if she'd just get with the times then she could be period-free. That's just as shitty as saying that all women should have their periods whether they like them or not despite what options may be available to them, lest they be considered body-haters.

I'm not trying to say either of these things. And I get sick of getting lumped into the "oh well her periods must be easy" category cause I don't mind having one. It's not easy. It's never regular, I'm grumpy all the time, and I spend at least 2 days feeling like my body will split in half if I sit up in bed. It totally totally blows. But I hated skipping my periods more than I hated the pain. That doesn't mean I think it's bad to skip them, it just means that it's not for me.

And it's probably just as untrue to say that all women who would skip their periods would do so because they have a lot of menstrual complications. I'm sure there are women who'd say it doesn't really bug them but if they could avoid a minor inconvenience and the money spent on tampons, that they'd be happy to do it. And that's fine too.

It's not the concept of the pill or of skipping periods that bothers me...it's the dialogue around it.

I mean seriously. It's nobody else's business. I love discussing stuff on here and i feel like there's a lot of valuable input from a lot of different women, but it seems to me that when periods come up it gets very us vs. them. when i'm sure we'd agree it's best we all make our own decisions for our own bodies.

sigh... maybe i'm just feeling paranoid and guilt-ridden about reading feministing instead of writing the grant proposal i should be working on :)

Lancastrian--when I took the pill continuously, I had to have my prescription changed in order to have my insurance cover it, so instead of it being written for 12 refills a year it was written for like 17 or something. i don't know if that would be helpful for you or not.

C. Diane - I *do* know why oral contraception is prescription (daddy's permission) only. It's called a paternalistic (and financially advantageous) attitude in doctors and the whole medical industry. I also understand the risks of hormonal b.c., but I could still make thoses choices all by myself. If hormonal b.c. were for men, I would give better odds for it to be otc.

"Bundling" it with pap smears and pelvic exams is the equivalent of extortion: I'll give you the script, if you...

As for periods, they get in my way. I did without them naturally (running too many miles, probably) for many years, and getting them back has been a complete pain. I've no use for reproductive ability or the markers thereof.

Wevs, mirm. It's all those eeeeevil doctors out to get your money.

Annual wellness exams catch disease early, and certainly earlier than a person showing up in the ER with a stroke due to years of high blood pressure. They're a key to reducing the ludicrous medical costs in this country.

The way I see it, we're all riding the Spaceship Female Body together. I love reading about everyone's different experiences and how they choose to deal with them. We humans are such a diverse, flexible and ingenious species, it's amazing how much we can mix it up.

So. More, more TMI and stories! Less, less judgments and cageyness!

I vacillate between liking and disliking my period. Honestly, I like the blood. I've always been fascinated by guts and innards.

I dislike having to constantly 'clean up.' Tampons seem to strengthen my cramps, so I only use them overnight for the first few days. So, at 31, I still stain clothes with some regularity--not middle school grade stains, where the whole class can tell, but stains to wash out nonetheless! To my lazy ass, it's just one more dang thing to clean (hopefully, that is. Once I bled through undies, pants and stained my mom's shotgun seat in her new car. The humanity!).

But it's never occurred to me to 'opt out.' Despite the pain, hassles and sick days taken, I just hate taking pills (use the sponge and jelly/foam/rhythm combos). I felt so fucked up on the pill and the Ring. Bazooms got unbearably huge & oversensitive, lost my sex drive, felt insane. It was all shit, except worrying about being pregnant. So I doubt I'll dabble with this.

Well, this is timely, as I sit here at my desk, shaking, quite literally, from the blood I've lost in the last 10 minutes.

I'd kill to not have my period anymore. My period is beyond painful - it's horrendous. It causes me to miss work, reschedule vacations. It comes with a blinding migraine and clots the size of Easter eggs. I hate it. Hate it.

Unfortunately, my family history of high blood pressure and deep-vein clotting means I should avoid the pill. I've never been on it, and since I am over 35, starting it now just seems like even more of a risk.

Which sucks. I'd give my right arm to never feel like I do right this minute (shaking, cramping, having to leave my desk every 20 minutes to deal with "stuff") ever again.

There's a large difference between evil and paternalistic. Way to mock people who don't accept authority from any joe with an M.D.

I'm not arguing for not taking blood pressure, but now that you mention it, they have those machines at the local grocery store too. .. :)

I think that we're on the same page, Colleen :)

No cramps, no anemia, period for three days a month.

It's pretty much akin to other bodily elimination functions, except I can't control it.

The downside is that tampons hurt. Playtex used to have really nice ultra-thin ones that I could (sometimes) manage, but decided to stop selling them. (Gah!)

As a scientist, I dislike the idea of messing around with my body when the long-term effects are not known. I cannot help but think that there are variables at play that we don't know about - that some other system will be affected later.

For me, the new pill would be nothing more than a way to stop bleeding for three days a month, but would come with the problems (depression) and risks of medication. I know people with endometriosis, and I completely understand why they would never want to have a period again. While it might be a "natural" function, it's acting in such a way as to be a disease.

To each her own... and I sincerely hope that there is no pressure to "remain a woman" or to stop bleeding.

This is kind of off-topic, but, Cara, how are sponges? I keep seeing ads for Lunapads, etc. in Bust/Bitch/Venus magazines & they interest me. I'm trying to cut back on the trash I produce, & reusable pads/sponges/cups appeal to me. The thing that worries me is having to change them/rinse them in a public bathroom. Any advice, suggestions?
...
Getting my period actually made me part of the out crowd. It's not bad enough that I was already a misfit in elementary school (think Dawn Weiner) but I got my period early--at 10. Back in my day, that was early. If there were other girls in the bathroom at school when I had to change my pad, they'd hear the crinkling of the plastic & make fun of me the whole time. It got to the point where I would spend 5 or 10 minutes looking for an empty bathroom to quickly change my pad & run away. Plus, my early periods were really heavy so I was constantly bleeding through the pads. So yeah, really fun.

Meh--it simply sucks being forced/pressured either way. I could go on and on about how I love my Diva Cup and how my cycle lines up with the moon and whatnot, but I won't, because I remember how small I felt when I went to a new (female!) gyno last year, repeatedly told her I was NOT interested in hormonal contraception (and why), and still somehow left the office with a sample box of birth control in my unwilling hand and an open prescription for the next year. And yet I had to wait until I "really needed it" to get an open scrip for EC.

WTF?! Let women make their OWN choices about their OWN bodies. Period. (Heh.)

When I first got my period, I wasn't even a teenager yet and definitely didn't feel like a woman yet.

It did make me long for better sphincter control. Wouldn't it be cool if we didn't need pads/tampons/cups/sponges for #3 because we could just hold it in until we go to the bathroom (a la #1 and #2)? :)

"And already the talk about hating our bodies comes out. Why do we have to be considered to hate our bodies just to want to get rid of a period?"

Good point.

"So yeah, we have the right to live without our periods, but what are the cultural pressures and narratives surrounding that choice?"

Meanwhile, aren't some people out there vehemently against *both* regularly menstruating *and* hormonal birth control, because they want women and girls to be constantly pregnant from menarche to menopause? Compared to *them*, we're on the same side here. :)

"The way I see it, we're all riding the Spaceship Female Body together."

Speaking of which, what's it like to change pads/tampons/whatever in space? A few times I've had the stuff start flowing again in the moment between pads, and I don't know how I'd have handled that if I was in a zero gravity bathroom at the time.

Moxie, you're not alone! I got my period at 10 too, and it sucked, a lot.

It would always piss me off when as a young teenager I would see female teenage characters on sitcoms complaining that they haven't gotten their period yet and going that they can't wait for it. Made me want to throw something at the screen.

And as I get older, it just seems to get worse. It's more regular, and I know when it's coming, but I feel nastily moody the couple of weeks before it, and my digestive system lately has decided it to be a good idea to stop working during it too. If it wasn't major surgery, I'd get my uterus removed in a second.

Why do I have the very, very strong feeling that these same guys who think that women should happily gossip about their periods are the same guys who would gripe and plead unfairness if those same women took a day off of work once a month because they were doubled over in bed with cramps?

Moxie, I LOVE the sponges. I got them from lunapads-- saw the ads in the same place :)

The downside is that you can't wear them at night, because you're meant to rinse them every three hours.

As for changing them in public, I guess it depends on how extroverted you are. The bathroom where I work has extremely low traffic, so it's not really a problem. But I would probably hesitate to do it at the mall or something. I remember once, though, I heard a story (I wish that I could remember where) about a woman in the stall of a public restroom in a club shouting "OKAY EVERYONE, I'M COMING OUT WITH MY SPONGE, CLOSE YOUR EYES IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE BLOOD." One woman did close her eyes, but the rest were all really interested in what she was doing and wanted to learn about it!

Anyway, I HIGHLY recommend them, even if they're just for when you're hanging around the house. They are SO much more comfortable, and I didn't mind rinsing them nearly as much as I thought I would . . . which really wasn't all that much to begin with. Oenophile, if tampons hurt you, you really out to try the sponges. I tend to sometimes have the same problem with tampons, but nothing similar happens with sponges because they're so soft and flexible.

Ann:

I read Eugene Volokh (rightly or wrongly) as having a response to the ABC News reaction to Lybrel similar to yours--sarcastic disbelief (compare "Panic in the streets! How will women know they're women if they don't have to ride the cotton pony once a month? You've got to be kidding me.").

Reading his queries in that light, what's patronizing about them?

Thanks, all, for the interesting discussion.

I think we are reacting to the news of Lybrel as it would be rational to react to any new technology, with the insight that it has potential for both good and ill.

Here's the thing about that, though: It is not really a new technology, right? Women who needed to or wanted to delayed or stopped their periods using traditional pills on thier own. Not that the debate about whether or not that is healthy is invalid or uninteresting. It is neither. It would be great if this product gave us a chance to monitor more rigorously the effects of what women and their gynecologists have been doing on their own for years.

Like annajcook, I worry that the new pill has the potential to be marketed in ways that are harmful. Like a number of other commentators, I worry about the cultural pressures that could develop around the new pill.

This is why I am troubled to see so much discourse centering on the newness and strangeness of the no-period thing. Are we giving in so soon to the marketing hype?

Thanks, all, for the interesting discussion.

I think we are reacting to the news of Lybrel as it would be rational to react to any new technology, with the insight that it has potential for both good and ill.

Here's the thing about that, though: It is not really a new technology, right? Women who needed to or wanted to delayed or stopped their periods using traditional pills on thier own. Not that the debate about whether or not that is healthy is invalid or uninteresting. It is neither. It would be great if this product gave us a chance to monitor more rigorously the effects of what women and their gynecologists have been doing on their own for years.

Like Colleen, I worry that the new pill has the potential to be marketed in ways that are harmful. Like a number of other commentators, I worry about the cultural pressures and messages that could develop around the availability of methods to stop menstruation.

This is why I am troubled to see so much discourse centering on the newness and strangeness of the no-period thing.

Are we giving in so soon to the marketing hype? What will happen when they really hit us head-on with stuff like, "No modern woman in her right mind would choose to menstruate," or, "If you don't find your period unbearable, rest assured that your boss and fiancee do."

Terra:

1) The bleeding experienced while on conventional birth control pills is not a period. In physiological terms, we already know what the consequences are from "continuous cycling." Second, it's the most researched medicine in, well, the history of medicine. Fundies keep trying to demonize it through science, but they keep coming up empty.

2) Having 450 cycles in a lifetime is not what women's bodies were designed to do. Before the twentieth century, women only had approximately 100-150 cycles in their lifetime. If anything, menstruating represents an "unnatural" deviation from the norm.

3) Yes, the Pill raises the risk of clots. But three times an astronomically low number is still an astronomically low number. If I remember correctly, it's still lower than the risk of clots from pregnancy.

4) Depo =/= BCP. They use different hormones. Although there are more problems associated with Depo, that's not due to the bleeding -- it's due to the sole use of progesterone.

Having 450 cycles in a lifetime is not what women's bodies were designed to do. Before the twentieth century, women only had approximately 100-150 cycles in their lifetime. If anything, menstruating represents an "unnatural" deviation from the norm.

I don't buy that argument. It's based on an awful lot of assumptions about the frequency of pregancy and breastfeeding that I don't see any reason to believe.

Shyva: I read Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret at a pretty young age, 8 or 9. Then, I got my period & I was like, "OmG, why did that girl lie about her period? Why would anyone want it?"
My parents were open & told me what would happen, but no matter how many pastel diagrams you see of your innards, nothing really prepares you. It didn't help that I got my first period while visiting my dad's house--in retrospect, it was like a bad Vagina monologues sketch.
Thankfully, as I got older I got less self-conscious. In eleventh grade, a substitute wouldn't let me go to the bathroom & I threw a huge fit regarding changing pads, etc.
Cara: Thanks for the recomendation! I think I'm going to order some. I hate using pads, but I can't use tampons--I'm small & oddly tilted LoL.

You know, i'm not going to deny that there are some aspects to having a period that I acknowledge are about hating my body.

I don't hate my body, I love it.

So, let me clarify. When I was a teenager, I had periods so heavy that I had to take days off school each month, I bled through my pads and tampons (but omg tampons were a godsend, they lessened my insane cramps). So I had to deal with the humiliation of everyone knowing when I had my period, and dealing with bloodstains on my jeans or schooldress. Really unpleasant stuff. I bled so heavily at my dad's work christmas party that I left bloodstains on the carseat after I bled through tampon and jeans. I was begging for us to leave that party, but no go, because it was an important work do.

Apart from those aspects of humiliation which have kinda burned into me, I'm pretty ambivalent about my periods. When I'm not doubled over in pain, that is. I don't really care if I bleed or not, it's the side-effects of pain and anemia that I do not want to deal with and do not feel I should have to deal with.

I went on the pill to control my period pain enough to attend school no matter what day of the month it was. It also helped control my chronic iron-deficiency anemia. I've pretty much always seen the pill as a thing that helps me to have control over my body, and helps me be what I want to be.

Not that bodily control doesn't have it's own spectres for young women.

When I was at university, it was cheaper to be on the pill constantly than it was to buy my monthly supply of tampons. How's that for market forces.

I really resist the idea that I shouldn't have control over my own body. I'm willing to hear all the arguments for and against, but in the end, it's my decision, and all Lybrel does is make what was a covert thing that a lot of us did an overt thing.

And ... since the period you get on the pill isn't really a period anyway, and you aren't ovulating, avoiding those withdrawal bleeds should, it seems to me, be no more or less harmful than having them. If you're not ovulating, you're not ovulating. Bleeding or not doesn't change that.

I'm interested in the references to needing to refill a pill prescription 12 times a year. I'm in Australia and all the kinds of pill I've used or heard about come in 3 month packs with 3 separate foil lined "blister" plastic thingys. Each plastic thingy has 21 active pills and 7 placebo pills. This make it easier as the prescription only needs to be filled 4 times a year. I assumed this was standard packaging.
I would love to make a price comparison too. I take an expensive form of the pill. It is not covered by the government's Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme so I pay full price. I buy the generic for between $27 and $34 US for 3 months supply. What do people pay internationally?

"Here's the thing about that, though: It is not really a new technology, right? Women who needed to or wanted to delayed or stopped their periods using traditional pills on thier own."

Likewise, I bet this one wouldn't even stop menstruation for everyone, the same way traditional pills don't always have that effect when taken without breaks. If I stay on the pill and skip the placebo week for 3 packs in a row, I get my period in the middle of the third pack - doing that just shifts my period to a 9-10 week cycle.

WonderBunny, I'm an American who used to live in Australia. The packaging is different. A standard here for someone who has average insurance is $10-$25 a month for a pill RX (a normal pill, not Lybrel or anything else fancy). When I was there, I, like you, got my pills in sets of three for $10 total.

You can thank your socialized medicine for that. Us with the ol' "free market" aren't so lucky. That's why you might hear us talking about how a lot of low-income women can't afford birth control at all. --Which really (and I say this as someone who has participated in the discussion) is a hell of a lot more important and worthy of our time than this.

I have The Keeper http://www.keeper.com/index.html , which is a reusable menstrual cup. It is GREAT! You only have to empty and rinse it every 8-10 hours and it doesn't leak. I have never had to empty it while in public, which is a huge plus. I don't really like wearing anything internal at night, so I use luna pads at night, they are much more comfortable than paper pads.

EG: I don't buy that argument. It's based on an awful lot of assumptions about the frequency of pregancy and breastfeeding that I don't see any reason to believe.

You think the calculating the lifetime total based on average age of onset, average number of pregnancies, and average time lactating is unreasonable? As far as I can tell, no one in the History of Medicine community does. Although we can't know much about hunter-gatherer societies, information from the late 18th and 19th centuries are pretty reliable because of nationwide birth certificates. More importantly, those birth certificates use the same terminology and concepts we use today. Consequently, it's not like trying to discern cancer or heart disease rates in the 1600s -- or even early 1800s -- based on non-systematic death certificates.

Wonderbunny - in the US, with insurance (as someone noted above) you can pay anywhere from $10-40 for a month of BCPs. Without insurance, you're talking $35 to $60 (NuvaRing). They come in single 28-pill packs, or 3 patches, or 1 ring.

Many insurance companies won't pay for more than a month at a time, and they'll all deny deny deny if you try to fill more than 4 days before the day they think you should run out.

On the other end of the spectrum you have health departments, where you get low pricing (which hasn't been so low lately, actually.) My job is providing birth control to low-income women and teens, and we get 4 types of Ortho pills for $3.20/cycle on the public health pricing. About a year ago, it cost us pennies per cycle. We've had to cut back on the already-limited number of types of pills we carry because of the price increase.

Drug pricing in the US is totally arbitrary. Seriously.

You know what I don't miss? Throwing up every month. I used to throw up from cramps. Now I'm on Depo and I bleed maybe twice a year. No throwing up. I'm also clever enough to know that THE BLEEDING I EXPERIENCE ON HORMONAL BIRTH CONTROL IS NOT A PERIOD. I know because my kick ass NP explained it to me.

"what terra is saying is the equivalent to : "Well, we're only going to allow abortion for victims of rape and incest and health of the mother because they're the ones who REALLY need it, everyone else with a healthy pregnancy should just accept it as natural."

In response to Ultramagnus. OUCH! Is saying that I hope women get all the information before making choices about the continuous pill equivalent to denying women the choice of abortion? WHAT???

I am really happy to see so many awesome stories and thoughtful debate in this forum but the attacks on some of the women who have questioned the pill is really not so cool.

If you look back through the posts, so many of the women who said they thought periods were good or the pill not so good were accused of being judgmental and accusing women of hating their bodies. They then re-posted apologies, trying to justify their opinions.

Can we be less cruel to each other as we discuss these very important issues that affect us all? We can all learn from each other’s comments. I am happy to read different opinions. They often inform me way more than reading similar opinions to my own. But can we stop attacking each other??? I didn't need to come into work this morning and cry when I read people specifically accusing me of denying a women's right to have an abortion or lumping all women into one category just like the religious conservatives.

Finally, I'm wondering how tampon companies are responding to this news?

Maybe the tampon companies are the ones behind all this "lost womanhood crap." Makes more sense than people actually believing it ....

I can't wait to go on the mini-pill again, though I may explore other hormonal options.

I have to say I'm much less worried about any long term effects of hormones than the 24-36 Naprosyn I have to take every month within a few days. Sometimes if I have access to prescription pain killers I'll take those...sometimes marijuana makes painkillers less necessary. Plus, with cramping, other bodily functions tend to get "excited," so bring on the Immodium.

As far as whether or not women were actually meant to have as many periods as we do, it's easy to forget this change has happened in an exponentially short amount of time (in the past few generations). Is this enough time evolutionarily to catch up? Who knows...I just can't imagine it's particularly harmful to go the other way.

Meredith, what I'm saying is that I don't buy the assumption that 18th and 19th-century conditions were any more "natural" than our own. Sure we can calculate what was going on a hundred or two hundred years ago. But the idea that the conditions experienced then are somehow automatically equivalent to the conditions experienced by our ancestors when they evolved menstruation is absurd. There was nothing natural about 19th-century Europe.

EG: I don't disagree that the 19th century is unnatural. However, archaeological evidence I'm familiar with suggests that the menstruation and childbearing patterns we're discussing are much closer to 19th c. women than 20th c. women.

I don't like this valuation of things being "natural" for their own sake one bit.

Based on human history, eating foods from the supermarket isn't natural. Using the Internet isn't natural. Taking vitamins and taking showers and using toilet paper isn't natural.

Also, based on human history, rape is natural. Being subservient to men is natural. Cancer is natural. Dying in fires and getting eaten by lions and getting beaten for disobeying is natural.

Nature can be great. We can learn from nature, but we shouldn't be slaves to the its whims.

I read the Volokh post in full and he's definitely being sarcastic: It's his response to a commenter who suggested (seriously) that not menstruating would cut out the special bond that unites women or something like that.
As for this thread, as a guy, it's been fascinating to read so many different takes. And how intense some of it gets.

I read the Volokh post in full and he's definitely being sarcastic: It's his response to a commenter who suggested (seriously) that not menstruating would cut out the special bond that unites women or something like that.
As for this thread, as a guy, it's been fascinating to read so many different takes. And how intense some of it gets.

Kimmy, you might want to try some more non-traditional menstrual products such as those sold on gladrags.com or lunapanties.com

I'm not saying that they'll change your whole perspective, but I think it might make your period more pleasant.

To elaborate, I just wanted to say that I used to hate my period when I used disposable pads and tampons as well, but they are just uncomfortable things to use.

To elaborate, I just wanted to say that I used to hate my period when I used disposable pads and tampons as well, but they are just uncomfortable things to use.

Thanks for the offer, Danyell, and no offense to anyone who uses those things but: I don't want to keep anything! The throwing it away part is actually one of my favorites. (I'm only talking about the first URL, the second one didn't work).

Besides, that still won't do anything about the cramps, mood swings, sexual interruption, or that disturbing feeling of...leaking. I hate that.

it's been fascinating to read so many different takes. And how intense some of it gets.

Hey Shadow32, I agree with you! Even though I'm a woman, I'm surprised by how intensely people hold opinions about this stuff. I guess I just haven't had much occasion to talk with other women about it. I've definitely learned a lot on this thread, reading about peoples' diverse experiences.

I'm male, and a scientist. The question of the adverse health affects of the pill is settled. It's been out there for 40 years. If there were adverse affects, they would have surfaced in the BCP-taking population by now.

Female MD's have been skipping their period pills for decades to give themselves amenorrhea. Would female doctors do this if it was risky? This is a health question, discuss it with your doctor. The inclusion of the blanks in the original product also involved the marketing department of the drug company. They did not want women freaking and thinking they were pregnant due to the absence of bleeding. So the blanks are there thanks to the Catholicism of John Rock and the marketing department of the drug maker. I'm not sure what that is, but it ain't feminism.

Thanks for the thoughts, John. Do you happen to know whether/how well potential long-term effects have been tracked, thus far, in women who skip thier period pills?

Oenophile, if tampons hurt you, you really out to try the sponges. I tend to sometimes have the same problem with tampons, but nothing similar happens with sponges because they're so soft and flexible.

Thank you, Cara. I could try looking into it... although the insertion process would probably still be painful. (I don't find tampons to be difficult once in; it's the process of getting even small tampons, on heavy days, in that bothers me. Getting the applicator in is tough.)

Thank you for the suggestion... will definitely look into it.

Oenophile, I don't mean to state the obvious so excuse me if you've already tried it, but there are tampons without applicators, too. Those are what I used before sponges . . . everyone is different, but I always found those to be much easier and more comfortable to insert.

I was just wondering why everyone thinks that those of us who aren't comfortable with Lybrel are accusing other women of "hating" their bodies and being "bad" women. Did someone actually say that, because I know it wasn't me.

I don't understand why all the broohaha is happening now regarding this pill. Mirena IUD has been around for some time, and it stops period in many women who use it (I had it for a few years and didn't have my periods then). I thought not having periods is absolutely lovely (and as shocking as it may sound, I didn't grow a penis). If you enjoy your period - don't take the pill. But complaining about other who would rather not have thers is annoying. Our ancestors didn't have nearly as many periods as us, because for most of their reproductive lives they were either pregnant or nursing. I'd like to be like them, but without the "side effects", if you will :).

Sorry to so shamelessly self-promote, but I just wrote a post on what I think of this whole debate, today.

Danyell, I don't know if anyone on this thread did (and I'm too lazy to check) but some feminists certainly have said that women take this pill and ones like it because they hate their bodies. In fact, in my post today, there is a quote from someone saying something very similar.

However, archaeological evidence I'm familiar with suggests that the menstruation and childbearing patterns we're discussing are much closer to 19th c. women than 20th c. women.

Heya Meredith--I totally forgot about this thread! Really? I'd love to read about that, because I find archeology and evolution fascinating. I'm skeptical because I have studied 16th and 17th-century tretises on child-bearing and gynecology, and they all refer to menstruation as a monthly occurrence. Now, granted, women did usually begin to menstruate later in life, but they also married later in life than popular imagination would have it, breast-feeding has never been a fail-proof ovulation-stopper, and in that time, at any given moment, over half of the female population was unmarried. The idea that our "natural" state is constantly pregnant is one that presupposes a lack of choice in the matter, as well as a universalization of heterosexual penis-in-vagina intercourse, and isn't borne out by the earlier culture I have studied.