Is there a national broadcasting complaints-type organisation in the States?
Does that sort of thing come under free-speech legislation?

Shorter me: Can those guys get fired for doing that?

Does anyone else not totally get how "chill out, it was a homeless guy" is an excuse?

Especially for the others egging him on?

Its like the newsmedia is trying to get "Pissing off the feminists" recognized as an Olympic sport...

New focus: How do you argue back against something so clearly antagonistic, when the perpetrator's whole point was to prove that they don't care what you think?

You know I'm pretty sure that it's a crime to threaten any sort of violence at all against the First Lady... I would not be surprised if this DJ wasn't visited by the Secret Service and questioned about his actions.

And yes, there is a way to file a complaint but only if it were on broadcast radio. The FCC controls the standards and decency for broadcasts, but if the person is on satellite or podcast or anything but broadcast radio, well, no such luck. They can say anything they want as long as it's not illegal to say it.

That is disgusting! I really don't agree with Rice or Bush's politics but would not want to see harm come to either of them. I sincerely believe in freedom of speech, but I do feel that there needs to be a line drawn when it comes to crap like this.

I think the only thing you could do is write to XM to complain. They get all their money from subscriptions, right? So you can't complain to any advertisers or anything.

That was awful. I had to stop it about 30 seconds in.

I think the only thing you could do is write to XM to complain. They get all their money from subscriptions, right? So you can't complain to any advertisers or anything.

That was awful. I had to stop it about 30 seconds in.

I think there's a rise in woman bashing as a reaction to the public image of women improving. For instance consider Hillary Clinton running for the presidency, and the strongly pro-female theme in Grindhouse, both of which were/are highly visible events. So men are pushing back in a typical way; when something threatens you, try to kill it.

Remember, sexuality has been really the only way for men to control women. Which is why when a woman steps out of her "place" then she is often threatened with rape as a means of showing her her "place". It's an act that is used as intimidation like, "No matter how big you get I can bring you down because I can fuck you and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop it."

Thankfully I don't get Opie and Anthony so this is the most I've heard of their show. But I did listen to the whole clip and I find it interesting that one of them says, "Yeah, I'm going to show you how a REAL man does it," which is often what a lot of MRA?misogynists use against women in that they've never had a "good" fucking or a "real" man. "Real" men hurt you during sex and it's not good sex unless you're made to feel sorry for doing something apparently.

Sadly there's nothing really you can do. I checked out the message board briefly and it was almost all a bunch of "First Amendment!" "Get a sense of humor!" rhetoric. And since they are on XM writing a letter to complain will do nothing because the only thing that will get the point across will be them losing subscribers, not getting letters.

i gotta agree with SassyGirl that while I'm not fond of the ladies, I wouldn't want them to get hurt at all...much less raped.

i mean, don't get me wrong, if i ever ran into either of Rice or Bush, i'd give them a good whoopin' with my rhetoric...but there would be no violence of any sort.

heck, i hate ann coulter more than i hate either of them but i seriously doubt any confrontation would get past hair pulling.

i know why men threaten rape. i realize it's a control thing. but it still fuckin' pisses me off and i can't fathom why they persist in saying this shit.

douchebags.

I might punch Rice for helping to slaughter 600,000 Iraqis, but this is disgusting. And I'm not sure I understand the thing with Laura Bush. She's not exactly powerful (more Stepford Wife than anything else), nor has she done anything wrong other than blindly following her schmuck of a husband.

And, UltraMagnus, are you serious when you say that sexuality is the only way men have controlled women? I realize that it's a major tactic, but what about simple beating, forced labor, and calling them immoral for simply being a woman (regardless of sexuality)?

I can't listen to the clip b/c my computer predates electricity.
What really irks me, though, is when so-called progressive men talk about raping women they disagree with idealogically. It usually comes up when discussing Ann Coulter. I loathe Ann Coulter & I'm pretty sure that she could turn me into dust with a glance, what with her having sold her soul to satan, but I wouldn't want her to be raped.

God, I think I need to throw up now. The sad thing is, I have heard this before, how a woman "needs" to be raped to cure what ails them. Thinking for yourself is a sickness, you know. *rolls eyes* Rape is not freakin' Lydia Pinkham's, assholes! It’s crime and an extreme violation that is NOT funny. But I'm preaching to the choir. Anyway, my point is these guys are utterly despicable. Sure, free speech blah, blah, blah, but using might right to speak freely I can freely say they are misogynistic dirtbags. Besides writing XM, I'm going to call their local affiliate, 105.3 FM KLLI. Sure, this didn't happen on air, but I am sure the radio station and their advertisers would like to know why I won't listen to their station anymore. I hope in the wake of Imus stations will take shit like this seriously.

There may be hope for some repurcussions.
I found this wired blog post:
http://blog.wired.com/business/2007/05/shock_jocks_put.html

Says XM and Sirius are in the midst of working out a merger deal and are under heavy scrutiny by anti-trust forces. With the Imus incident in recent memory and the fact that Opie and Anthony have been fired before for their show's content, things don't look good for the poor little mysogynists.
Aside from you, Wired, and some conservative editorials like Newsbusters though, I haven't heard a lot of noise about this yet.

BTW, what people can do, if you want to see these guys get some heat under their asses, is write to media outlets like CNN and your local newspapers and tell them they should cover it.

I got about 15 seconds into it, realized I didn't really need to hear the rest, and stopped.

These guys are sick.

The good news: There are things we can do to raise some hell. Some 24 terrestrial stations still carry the first three hours of Opie and Anthony. There's one near me in Lafeyette, Louisiana that I'm going to try to get ahold of--though learning from my experience, I'm going to make sure they actually carry O&A first. I inadvertently got one Tennessee radio station flooded with calls over the Howard Stern thing when they had not in fact carried Stern in over a year; the culprit was Stern's radio network's web site, which incorrectly listed his program as still being broadcast from that station.

I'm thinking NOW might also want a piece of this...

Cheers,

TH

I think that anyone that says someone else should be raped should be raped immediately. Maybe the media needs to overpublicize a story EVERY time a man is sexually assaulted, and put the fear of rape on their minds, because men rape men too, ask Joe Francis. Maybe instead of insisting the victim deserves a good raping, assholes like these guys could be a bit more empathetic. I mean, don't they cringe from pain every time another man gets a crotch shot from a baseball?

I have listened to Opie and Anthony while driving around town, and they're entire show on public radio (they do two seperate shows, the XM one starts just after the public one) is disgusting enough. Maybe there's a way to at least hurt them on public air? They had a "Fattie" contest, where they had women call in and the one with the highest weight had to do some kind of modeling or something, and they said really cruel things on air during the event. Another time, a woman called in to try to get support for an animal shelter, and they refused to let her speak about it until she told them what she was wearing, then they made fun of her. Woman bashing is pretty standard fare.

My husband used to listen to them every day, because he thought they were funny, just like the masses of other young males. Thanks to feminism, he can't listen to them anymore, they actually make him uncomfortable. I guess the question "How would you feel if that was your wife/gf/mother/sister/daughter they were talking about?" really opened his eyes. Too bad so many young men look to these shock jocks for social guidance.

In the above post re: the radio station in Tennessee, I meant to say Don Imus, not Howard Stern. There was, y'all might remember, a NOW campaign against the Imus comments--which is why I'm thinking NOW might also be interested in getting in on the Opie and Anthony thing. O&A should definitely take a hit to the pocketbook over this, and if this controversy can get them off terrestrial radio entirely, I'm all for that.

O&A are disgusting, misogynistic human beings, agreed. Why anyone would listen to this hate-filled garbage is beyond me.

Cheers,

TH

It's weird: we're having a discussion right now over at Eschaton about prison rape and rape jokes, and somebody brought up a study showing 60% of undergrad men would "consider rape if they thought they could get away with it." Fucked. Up.

And, UltraMagnus, are you serious when you say that sexuality is the only way men have controlled women? I realize that it's a major tactic, but what about simple beating, forced labor, and calling them immoral for simply being a woman (regardless of sexuality)?

Bearcat, what makes a woman a women in the physical sense? Their genitals, I believe that's what these men are railing aginst inherently, the vagina, which is seen as weaker than the penis (the penis, hard, goes into the vagina, soft,).

All of those things you state are correct but like in this case when women step out of line (as we have seen on numerous feminist blogs and posts) rape threats often come up because it is seen as putting a woman back in her place. But you are correct.

NOBODY should have to put up with rape threats. We should be consitent at all fronts. We should not put up with rape jokes about men in jail, for instance.

I used to get a good laugh just like anybody else, but hey, I realized that if we demean what happens to men, then we are demeaning what happens to women, too!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those "men are oppressed too!" whiners. I'm just saying that by advocating a full-out ban on rape threats, it only makes our case (as women) even more strong.

And not only that, but rape destroys those who commit it as well as those who are victimized. Last thing we need are even more souless men, void of empathy, walking around. After all, when you do it once, it get s easier every time.. (that's what they say about murder, too).

DOWN with RAPE.

p.s forgot to add, we can't all forget about the link between childhood abuse and children who grow up to abuse themselves.

Heck, even our fave buddy Mr Girls Gone Wild has been raped (as far as I have heard), but he hasn't learned a thing.

It is reasons like this that make me not listen to anymore male-run male-oriented morning shows. I have a sense of humor, I can listen to regular talk shows that take their little shots at women, but I cannot listen to this kind of material.

One time on exactly that kind of talk show they were discussing what to do if you found child porn on your friend's computer. Most callers (male) said they wouldn't do anything, or if they did 'something' it would consist of talking to their friends about it. Everyone said that they wouldn't call the police - because they're not really doing anything wrong.

Another time they were discussing whether it was okay for an older female teacher to have sexual relations with a young teenage male (I think it was a 14 or 15 year old in this case) and all the (male) callers thought it was fine! Yo ho ho, pat him on the back.

Needless to say, I don't support that radio station any more. The worst part is that I believe that quite a few males agree with their topics and their attitudes and their arguments.

I couldn't agree more, wildstarryskies.

I used to laugh at the jailhouse rape jokes too, but like you I realized that I was only perpetuating the idea that rape can be funny. And it's just not. Ever. No matter the context. No matter the victim.

It's just not acceptable to condemn certain kinds of "rape jokes" and not others. We have to be consistent 100% of the time.

Feeling seriously ill over here. Why is it when you try and have a serious discussion about rape with male friends it turns into an argument of semantics where you just do not get your point across, yet this shit keeps happening? Do men just not fucking notice at all?

Men don't get it, Fenris. I don't, anyway. I try to, but I've never been a woman living in a culture of sexual violence and I never will be, and nothing I experience as a man will ever be anything like that. I don't pity women for this or anything, but I recognize that male-on-female rape, in the deep and inculturated sense, is something that I will never understand. Even if I'm raped, I won't understand it. Not from the perpetrator's point of view, and not from the victim's. Some things are just outside the realm of male experience.

Cheers,

TH

Don't count yourself out, Tom, I think your posts here and your website show a degree of empathy that few people are lucky enough to posess. We can never know what it is like to be someone else. This doesn't mean empathy can never exist.

Tom,

The fact that some men are willing to understand that they can never really experience the fear of man-on-woman rape (not to pretend that men aren't raped or aren't traumatised by it, but it's nearly impossible for a woman to imagine herself perpetrating penetrative rape) is a really wonderful thing.

I don't worry about men who know what they don't know. Someone once said that Socrates was the wisest man alive, as he knew what he did not know. It's people who think they know how women should react to rape and how we should feel about it that really irks me.

I can't figure out what's more disturbing, the actual broadcast or the comments supporting it.

...or the fact that Opie and Anthony are among the most popular radio personalities in the country precisely because they do things like this, and not in spite of it.

Cheers,

TH

Aren't these the same misogynistic pigs who got fired for having a couple screw in a church while services were going on? Don't these dipshits ever learn?

They got rehired because the radio company lost a lot of money with them gone. the reason they are on the air is because of money, same reason Imus is no longer on the radio...

I agree that what they said is really offensive, but in no way did they threaten anyone. A threat would have required them to say "we are going to rape you." However they were only speculating on how nice it would be to have sex with Rice, not using the threat of sex in any way.

Yes it sounds ignorant and mean, etc. Still in no way is there a threat or mention of rape. They don't say that the sex would be against the will of either Rice or Bush.

Is sex automatically rape now? Did I miss something?

They described holding Rice down and seeing the look of horror on her face. Does that sound like consensual sex? Just describing what they would like to do to Rice comes off as threatening, even though they would never get the chance to actually carry it out. I have been raped before and the comments are very real threats to me because so many of the men I know think Opie and Anthony are great. This kind of trash minimalizes the impact rape has on our culture and half our citizens and makes rape and rape threats ok in the public mind, which they most certainly are not for the victims. Rape need not be explicitly stated, but that clip sure implies it.

Well I dont know that they threatened raped.

He clearly said could you imagine, I would like to, I would fuck so and so. He even went as far as saying holding her down, but holding someone or aggressive sex simply isnt rape.

Did anyone hear the words - rape, against her will, forcibly, forced, gunpoint, etc?

I didnt. Ive noticed the writers here are running very dry on content. This, like the google search engine, simply isnt worthy of news.

Not when stories such as women pleading for there life, political prisoners, etc, are all over the news the past two weeks.

Well now saying you want to fuck = rape on feministing.

Like it or not, people have every right to be women hating assholes. Trying to ridicule or trying to call for their firing is simply putting your nose were you dont belong. Dont like the humor? Dont listen to it.

But trying to attack anyone who says something, looks a certain way, dances a certain way, talks a certain way, well unless your some kind of personality nazi, could important topics be discussed at some point and time here?

Okay. I can agree that they don't have to say: "I want to rape you." Still one has to be able to make a distinction between what are simply shock tactics and what is a real threat upon someone elses person.

There is no rape threat here. Thats a simple fact.

Well done Scilian.

Thats all nice and well Viola, but the world cant crumble because you are a rape survivor just like I am.

In fact, in a free country, your allowed to say you would like to rape (even though that was never said) so and so, and its ok. Threatening rape would be "If condasleeza rice doesnt do this - then Im going to rape her"

That might be a threat of rape. Hell, so far Ive read people comment on here, I hate her, Id punch her, but never threaten rape.

WTF is wrong some of you people? So threats of assault are any better? So your jokes of violence are ok, but no ok if a man makes it?

Scilian, there is a big difference between my wishing I could punch Dr. Rice and O & A's description of rape. My punching Condi would cause warmongers to fear (which I am perfectly fine with), and would be somewhat justified (if the Nuremberg laws were applied, she would be hanged, but I digress). On the other hand, raping her would cause all women to fear, because all women are in danger of being raped, and it couldn't be justified, since O & A are obviously not talking about punishing her for helping with the Iraq invasion, but rather punishing her for being a woman in power. In addition, rape often causes severe psychological trauma. Being slugged generally doesn't.

Wow... so the world now fears rape, since all women are at the threat of being raped.

But the entire world is not at risk for being punched?

Bearcat - no, there isnt a difference between raping a physically assaulting someone.

Either way it hurts someone else. Rape often causes trauma, but assault doesnt? So if I only sexually assault someone, but not rape, is that ok? Attacking someone can possibly scar them be it rape or just physical violence.

No, I dont buy it, Im sorry. Using hate to protest someone else's hate is really fucking stupid.

While it is true that XM, etc. are not under the usual fed regulations I think you should let those who share in the XM profits by using their satellite know how you feel. Oprah is on XM, Bob Edwards is on XM, AirAmerica is on XM. Let them know who they're in bed with. Me complaining to XM won't help, but nobody wants to piss off Oprah.

Agreeing with everybody else here: the current trend of saying "ha ha ha I'm gonna rape you" is totally disgusting. Rape is not a laughing matter.

But beyond that, I think this is an interesting side effect of the way Bush and Cheney are getting women and people of color to do, or at least represent, their dirty work. Nobody feels bad about taking a potshot at a white male (scumbag) like Karl Rove, but a cynic can cry racism or sexism when somebody bashes Condi or Alberto Gonzalez, and remember poor Colin Powell at the UN? So the current administration gets credit (from some misguided fools) for making its officials look more like America, and at the same time protects itself to some extent from the bashing it would get if it were all white males.

Scilian, you don't get it. My violence would be directed at a small, circumscribed set of people. No one else would have any reason to fear violence from me. On the other hand, this was targeted at a successful woman, and implies hatred because she was a successful woman. If I were to say, "man, Condi's so successful, I think I'll punch her," that would be on a similar level to what O & A said, because it would discourage women from pursuing public life. Threatening to punch Condi with the express reason of Iraq would only discourage women from helping to start wars.

And, no, simple assault, without intent to intimidate, generally does not cause severe and long term psychological damage. Rape (or other sexual assault) does.

Finally, I don't care about whether Condoleeza hates anybody. I care about whether she fucking helped kill 600,000 civilians. Hate can be a healthy emotion when directed towards certain people. **cough**Republicans**cough&&

Im not trying to say your fantasized assault of Condi Rice is bad at all Bearcat.

I just think its a bit shallow to attack someone for saying they want to fuck someone, but it the same column you have people saying they want to physically assault another individual.

Through your explination Bearcat, Im gathering its ok to fantasize rape or assault, then verbalize it to the world, only if you dont agree with them. But because some people interpret it as sexist since no faults or explanations were given.

You came right out and said you want to hurt, which could just as easily scar or leave or lasting injuries on someone. I will then play the part of the original poster, and say you intended to kill Condi Rice. Since after all, if it could potentially kill someone, thats what it means, period? Like in this instance with O&A (with whom I fucking loathe and its killing me to sit here a say this, but its only right)

Are you getting my point? The radio dick never said he wanted to rape someone, and neither did you say you wanted to kill Condi. You giving reasons for your terrorist threats isnt admirable nor does it suddenly make it legal.

Are you catching my drift? Really - Im not after you or arguing, but why not? Your statement could mean that, and hence will mean that to a tabloid blogger looking for a story.

FWIW and to be clear - Im in no way saying what you said was even slightly wrong or real in nature. Im merely proving a point Bearcat, or at least trying to anyways.

Well I dont know that they threatened raped.

He clearly said could you imagine, I would like to, I would fuck so and so. He even went as far as saying holding her down, but holding someone or aggressive sex simply isnt rape.

If I have an argument with my neighbor, and I say "You know, it'd be too fucking bad if something bad happened to you, wouldn't it? I mean, it'd sure be a shame if someone held you down and fucked you senseless, and took pictures of your horrified face" that'd absolutely be considered a legal threat. The difference in the situation means that his comments won't be taken as a serious threat, but that doesn't mean that what he's saying is much different from "I'd kill so-and-so in a heartbeat if I could." He's saying that he'd rape them, if he could. That he isn't in a position to follow through, or that he wouldn't actually rape her doesn't mean that that's not the message he's sending out.

Did anyone hear the words - rape, against her will, forcibly, forced, gunpoint, etc?

As someone else pointed out: "They described holding Rice down and seeing the look of horror on her face."

Are you suggesting that they're saying "We think Rice is awesome, and we bet she likes a little kink. If only we could, we'd love to play games with her"?

This, like the google search engine, simply isnt worthy of news.

And yet, it was worthy enough for you to leave multiple comments. Sometimes issues are major, sometimes they're minor. That doesn't mean they're less worthy of comment.

Not when stories such as women pleading for there life, political prisoners, etc, are all over the news the past two weeks.

Oh, right. It's the "Why are we talking about X when Y is so much worse?!" argument.

Well now saying you want to fuck = rape on feministing.

No.
A description of wanting to fuck someone against her will such that you can enjoy the look of horror on her face = a description of raping someone.
Yes.

Like it or not, people have every right to be women hating assholes. Trying to ridicule or trying to call for their firing is simply putting your nose were you dont belong.

Bullshit. They have a right to be woman-hating assholes, and we have the right to stand up to it and say "Hey, that's wrong." They're public figures, and we have every right to call for them to be held accountable for the things they say. The radio station has every right to ignore those requests, too.

Dont like the humor? Dont listen to it.

If you really believe that, why are you commenting here? See, you're doing the same thing that we are. You don't like the comments and the topics being discussed. You're making your displeasure known by commenting in a thread and saying "You should be talking about these other things, and this is a non-issue." By your logic, since you don't like the threads, you shouldn't be reading them. By my logic, you're participating in the discussion, and we're responding. You have a right to disagree or to ignore the thread, or to read other threads. One of us is being consistant in his actions and words. Hint: It's not you.

But trying to attack anyone who says something, looks a certain way, dances a certain way, talks a certain way, well unless your some kind of personality nazi, could important topics be discussed at some point and time here?

Here's the thing: I happen to think that pop culture is a pretty major force of sexism in our society. I think that it's absolutely important to look at the things that public figures and radio personalities, and movies, and music are telling us. If you think that there are more important topics, nobody is going to stop you from talking about them. If there are such pressing topics that you think need so much more attention, why are you wasting time talking about this topic instead of doing something about it? Every comment you leave that says "this topic isn't important" is time you could have spent doing something about the issues you care so much about.

Threatening rape would be "If condasleeza rice doesnt do this - then Im going to rape her"

It could also be an implied threat. Not all threats are explicit, and the law recognizes that, as do most reasonable people. If I say "Would you please give me your wallet, I'd hate for something bad to happen to you" while I'm waving a gun around, I'm absolutely robbing and threatening you, even though I've neither demanding your wallet, nor have I explicitely said that I'm going to shoot you if you don't give it to me. Still a threat. Still a robbery, even though I phrase it as a question.

WTF is wrong some of you people? So threats of assault are any better? So your jokes of violence are ok, but no ok if a man makes it?

I'll agree with you here: I absolutely think it's wrong to threaten violence on people, of any kind. However, I think that the use of rape as a tool to shut women up is, generally speaking, different than people talking about punching people. I think it's bad to say things like "I'd punch so-and-so" or "I'd love to kill so-and-so" but those are not gendered threats- they're not used exclusively against a group of people. The use of sexual violence as a tool against women is a little different, just as the threat of lynching as a tool to silence blacks carries different weight. Not all threats carry the same social implications and weight, and I think it's wrong to pretend that they do.

So, "fuck that bitch to death" isn't meant to mean "rape"? Riiiiight.

Um, actually, given that my arms are about as thick as my wrists, no, I couldn't kill her. :)

But seriously, the reason the rape description (I will concede that it wasn't an explicit threat) is beyond the pale is because of the nature of rape. I have been, and am, skeptical of the claim that rape is not about sex. However, it is abundantly clear that rape, and especially the threat of rape, is used to control women. When that threat is directed toward a powerful woman, it is extended to all women who might dare to get "uppity". On the other hand, punching is a gender-neutral act, especially if a reason is given.

If I threaten all people who enter politics, that is bad because it discourages participation in civic life. If I threaten all women (or all men) who enter politics, it is bad because it specifically oppresses an already oppressed group. Just like how graffiting a house is vandalism, but spray painting "nigger" on a black person's house is a hate crime.

And "I’ll tell you what—what’s that George Bush bitch, um, Rice…? Condoleezza Rice? … I’d love to fuck that bitch dead, man," is not an expression of a desire to rape? How many people you know would consent to be "fucked dead" while being "[held] down and fuck[ed]" and "Punch[ed]... all in the fucking face"?

Damn, roymacIII, you beat me to it. ;)

I have to disagree with your statement that it's not okay to threaten violence against anyone. I consider myself a pacifist, but I would gladly pull the trigger on a warmonger. If I can avoid war with simple threats, so be it.

ugh. opie & anthony are pigs. they're right up there with joe francis as far as i'm concerned. i know they've gotten fired by local stations in both new york city and boston. and i believe they're responsible for WOW, or Whip 'em Out Wednesdays. meaning on wednesdays, women are supposed to whip out their boobs in public. i remember seeing cars and trucks all along the highways of the northeast with their WOW stickers, or (more frequently) with WOW etched into the road grime. so, yeah, they're a class act.

I really recommend not reading any of the comments on that Wired Blog post.

Apparently objecting to this is a free speech issue.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- people who think that this is a free speech issue are the people who think that "free speech" means "free of consequences entirely", not "free of legal consequences and government interference."

Nobody is suggesting that this speech be made illegal. How is this not exactly the same as Don Imus expressing racist and sexist views about those basketball players?

Their asses should be fired. Not that they should be thrown in jail, no. Just fired. Free market, baby.

I don't think that sexism is the only thing going on here, but racism. A bunch of white men are discussing doing these awful things to a black woman in a position of power. Our country has a long, shameful history of white men raping black women, which is a a double power play and it sickens me that they're blind to their own privilage and power to such a degree that they think it's acceptable to discuss using their physical strength to horrify a black woman, who despite all odds has ended up in such a high position. I'm no Condoleeza fan, but I know that her being in that position is remarkable, and for the same reasons others want to take her down.

I just read a news story on yahoo that they'd apologized. However, the headline and story mostly say "sex." "Shock Jocks Sorry for Sex Comments." OK, MSM, dropping the ball again. Those aren't sex jokes. They're rape jokes. Jesus Christ.

Frances: They also mentioned Laura Bush.

They don't say that they want to rape Barack Obama. They say Rice. Or Laura Bush.

That's sexism.

"I agree that what they said is really offensive, but in no way did they threaten anyone"
"There is no rape threat here. Thats a simple fact. "

You must be male.

When women hear men talking about how they'd "like" to forcefully fuck a woman, and all the ways they would hurt her in doing so we hear the CLEARLY IMPLIED THREAT. Talking about it without ever actually threatening it, is just a clever way of threatening.

Must be so nice to live in safe comfy clueless boy land.

They don't say that they want to rape Barack Obama. They say Rice. Or Laura Bush.

That's sexism.

But I think Frances has a valid point that racism is a dynamic in this. The images and language of white men joking about assaulting a black woman in a position of power is loaded not only because of the sex dynamic, but also the race dynamic. White men have used sexual violence as a way of controlling or intimidating black women historically.

I don't think it needs to be one or the other: racism OR sexism. It's both.

Fair point. It can be both.

Scilian said:

I didnt. Ive noticed the writers here are running very dry on content. This, like the google search engine, simply isnt worthy of news.

Not when stories such as women pleading for there life, political prisoners, etc, are all over the news the past two weeks.

Well now saying you want to fuck = rape on feministing.

Why don't you get your own blog, then, instead of pissing all over this one?

Fortunately, this is getting a lot of mainstream press. The two hosts were already forced to apologize. Note that the headline on FOX News, long a bastion of strong feminist thought(!), reads "joke about raping..." About half of the hits on a google news search of "rice opie" had the word 'rape' in the title (the rest just used the word 'sex').

Given the tenuous nature of the possible Sirius/XM merger, now is the perfect time to do a media blitz to get these guys fired. If NOW and other big-money liberals are willing to put the energy into it, I bet we can win this.

On the question of whether this is rape, consider this transcript:

From http://watchingthewatchers.org/news/1239/opie-and-anthony-air-sex-rant-against-rice

Charlie: I tell you what, what's that George Bush bitch? Rice? Condoleeza Rice.
Anthony: Condoleeza Rice.
Charlie: I'd love to fuck that bitch, [unintelligible]. She needs a fucking man. I'll fuck that bitch --
Anthony: I just imagine the horror in Condoleeza Rice's face ...
Opie: [laughter] ... when she realizes what's going on ...
Anthony: ... as you were just like holding her down and fucking her.
Charlie: Punch her all in the fucking face. Shut up, bitch.
Anthony: That's exactly what I meant.

So ‘Scilian,’ ‘razorsedge,’ et al, don’t think this describes a rape? Wow. The issue has zero to do with “fuck=rape on feministing.� Hey, try replacing the verb ‘fuck’ with the innocuous expression “have sex with.� You can even remove the word ‘fucking’ altogether. Uh, that’s still describing a rape. This is not shrillness, it’s the law. Nowhere in this country is it legal to have sex with someone who doesn’t “realize what’s going on,� nor to “punch her…in the…face.� Not knowing what's going on cannot possibly imply consent. Punching a woman in the face is Assault and Battery. The acts described above are automatically felonies. Just wanted you to know that for your own sex lives.

Other threats of non-sexual violence, while inappropriate, are of a different category than rape threats, as ‘roymacIII’ explains well above. Thanks to ‘Frances’ for pointing out how race and gender context do matter, although it’s a false dichotomy to frame the issue as racism OR sexism. Violence against women of color, especially by white men, is always about both.

Too bad some the same level of public outrage doesn’t rise up when some other women we know are threatened with rape. >(

Quick note:

I was just in the drug store and overheard the talk radio station broadcasting. It began very well, with the radio hosts talking about how anybody who would make these kind of threat pseudo-jokes is "the lowest scum of the earth" blah blah blah, and then "I don't think it's any coincidence that this has happened so soon after Imus," blah blah blah, and here I thought it might go into some ideas about why talk radio hosts can be such assholes, but instead, the guy says:

"This is clearly a conspiracy by the left to discredit talk radio."

I had no idea I had that kind of power. I think, speaking for leftists, we should have a new motto:

"The American Left: Forcing Radio Hosts to Be Racist Sexist Assholes Since 2007"

Silly EG, don't you realize that whenever sexist, racist assholes are called on their sexist, racist shit, it is always the fault of the leftist Commies and the butch man-hating feminists for trying to discredit them? Let me guess, you're one of those evil conspirators who actually expects those who advocate hate and violence to take responsibilty for their actions? What kind of a nut are you?