Will I be excommunicated if I hope this pope bumps off soon?

And I wish I had something more coherent to say at this time in the morning, but I need my coffee first.

It seems to me that if the Vatican is going to continue to try to meddle in politics, the Catholic Church should lose its tax-exempt status here in the US.

It wasn't so very long ago that Catholics running for public office had to combat prejudices about their "divided loyalties," or the bigoted fear that they would be "taking orders from the Vatican." Does this Pope really want to give credence to that kind of bigotry?

Apparently he does.

Lucky for the pope the Catholic church doesn’t think protecting child molesters is a grave sin, otherwise he would have to excommunicate himself.

We can't have anything interrupting the introduction of potential new members to the Grand Catholic Eternal Life Pyramid Scheme, can we?

Man, it's rough to be a liberal Catholic. I was just griping the other day how charismatic PJPII was, and how Benedict couldn't hold a candle to him. No world leaders today seem to want to build bridges- they just keep torching them left and right.

Fortunately there's not a move yet for the Church to formally excommunicate pro-choicers; they're just recommending that they choose not to receive communion. Because clearly, the message of Jesus was EXCLUSION. :/ Have these guys even picked up a Bible lately?

And the Pope wonders at the same time why so many Catholics are converting to the Evangelicals! Gee, I don't know, something about that "come as you are" vibe must be quite a contrast to the Church's current message of "put up or shut up."

This does any Catholic candidate anywhere a disservice, now they have to try to overcome that bias that they will be doing the Pope's bidding. Not to mention the Pope pretty much stated if your Catholic and a politican you will do my bidding or else. Sigh.

All those predictions about the end of the world based on the Popes. I actually think it really meant the end of the Catholic Church and Bennie seems to be heading things that way.

Wouldn't it be ironic if many of the prominent Catholic politicians chose to give the Pope the finger and left the church in large numbers in protest?

All I could think when I saw this headline was, "Oh, why doesn't he just SOD OFF."

Why don't they all sod off and stop telling women what to do with their bodies...

I'm a little tired, but I don't think the situation actually requires a much more sophisticated argument than that.

See also:
Pope speaks out on abortion - Video from bbcworldnews
http://hammer2006.blogspot.com/2007/05/pope-speaks-out-on-abortion-youtube.html

Surely, any day now he'll make a similar announcement about excommunicating any politicians who favor the continued occupation of Iraq. After all, didn't the Catholic Church take a stand against that war?

I guess that's pretty unlikely. Well, would it help to remind him that there are unborn fetuses in Iraq who might be at risk?

You know, I really couldn't stand Pope John Paul II (I have an innate prejudice against anyone who thinks that AIDS is better than condoms), but Benedict makes him seem like an ally . . .

ugh. catholic church leadership is so out-of-touch with the everyday catholic. i have many friends (including one of my sisters) who are practicing catholics. while generally they wouldn't consider abortion for themselves, they ALL believe that each woman has the right to choose for herself and that abortion should be kept safe & legal for those women who choose that option.

I've always seen organized religion as a means of controlling the masses, and this bozo isn't doing anything to change that view.

Two things have always struck me about the Catholic abortion stance.

One, that it shows an appaling lack of faith. If an omnipotent god really wanted a child to be born (or a couple to be parents) he would be perfectly capable of making any birth control method used fail. (It's not like it never does, anyway.) I fail to see how using birth control is "playing God" any more than, say, using antibiotics, but you don't hear the Pope ranting on about being excommunicated if you take penicillin!

Second, abortion isn't mentioned even once in the Bible. It does, however, mention the "quickening" of the child in the womb, using the same word as for "the quick and the dead," (i.e. "the living and the dead"). Now if something "quickens" in the womb, that means that life begins at that point - NOT at conception, as has been argued even by clergy as far back as the middle ages. If Jesus/God considered abortion "murder," don't you think that the Bible would have mentioned it, at least in passing? Look at all of the rules in Deuteronomy. If God was so concerned about preventing fraud that he "inspired" the law against mixing linen and wool, and so concerned about mothers and babies that he "inspired" the concept of its being "anathema" to cook a lamb in its mother's milk, don't you think that he would have "inspired" someone to clarify that it's "anathema" to draw a child from the womb? The practice was in existence by Jesus' day.

When is Benedict going to get around to excommunicating politicians who support the death penalty? Never?

As a Catholic, there isn't enough "body of Christ" in the whole world to justify sacrificing an entire nation of women's bodies.

Crap. We have a general election campaign on here in Ireland at the moment, and this isn't going to make it any happier. It may or may not have an obvious effect, but...ugh.

I don't see how one can consider the pope as meddling in politics when he's doing his job. The Catholic Church is pro-life, womb to tomb, and that means they're anti-abortion, against war, against the death penalty, pro-taking care of poor people. I'll take 3/4.
I come from the school of thought that we as human beings are free to make choices and that only God can judge us. Eve chose to eat the apple. I choose to make my own lifestyle choices. We let God sort it out later.

Anyone who hasn’t should watch “Deliver Us From Evil,� (although it is the most disturbing movie I have ever seen). It’s about the rape and molestation of over 100,000 US children (the youngest only 5 months old) by Catholic priests and how the Catholic Church (all the way up to the Pope) knew about and covered up these atrocities.
If anyone still sees the Catholic Church or the Pope as a moral authority after ignoring the hundreds of thousands of victims of priest molestation and rape that came forward I feel bad for them.

If only God can judge us (it's all theoretical to me, so I'm just asking) then where does the pope get off judging people? His job is to lead his church. It's not to try to guide the political processes of innumerable countries across the globe.

A politician's job, on the other hand, is to represent his voters to the best of his ability, protecting their rights according to the governing documents of the country in quesiton. It is not their job to impose their religious beliefs on those voters.

I have rented Deliver Us From Evil to watch tonight, but regardless of what I see in that movie, nothing will tempt me to judge the Pope in the way he wishes to judge others. Seriously.

It is a good movie. I feel bad for the perpetrator they interview too because he was molested by a priest (and his older brother) when he was young and seems to have mental health problems and the Church didn't try to help him either, just covered up what he was doing, in addition to not protecting countless children.
The whole thing is so sad and disgusting. :(
But ikkin, I'd never condemn anyone to hell like he would either.

Denise Hirao, a Brazilian citizen working on reproductive health & rights on behalf of IWHC, wrote a great post about the Pope's visit at RH Reality Check.

The problem is not that the Pope says things. The problem is that people think that what the Pope says is important.

For more information:
http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618680004

I don't see how one can consider the pope as meddling in politics when he's doing his job.

Singling out politicians for personal reprisals based on them doing their jobs isn't political? Of course it is, and if the Vatican is going to keep this sort of thing up, why should it expect to be tax-exempt?

Im a bit surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the most prominant pro-choice Catholic politician in the country, SF's representative Nancy Pelosi.

I'm far from a fan of hers: her betrayals of her left base include not just her more recent refusal to even consider impeachment. She's been pretty weak on civil rights issues (voting for the PATRIOT act, anti-RAVE act and others) helped make SF's Presidio the nation's only privatized national park, and despite representing a city with both a street and school named for Cesar Chaves, owns with her husband a $25 millon non-union vineyard.

She has, however been strong on reproductive rights. The Republican Party recently launched a major effort to attack Pelosi, marginalizing her as "radical," and "too secular." (And you thought this was a secular nation!) Of course, one of the worst things about the Democratic Party is the fact that they are so easily cowed by accusations of being too far to the left, while Republicans of the extreme right are among the most powerful in the party and never, never apologize or backpedal to prove just how "centrist" they are in the craven manner of Pelosi, et al.

And yet I have to give Pelosi some credit for being so out about her religion while challenging the Church's outrageous positions. I can think of at least 4 women I know well who are strong feminists, leftists, pro-choice, and consider themselves Catholic. I'm glad to see some likeminded folks representing here.

Perhaps it is because I am not religious, but I have huge issues with people or groups that import religious thought into political debate. I especially dislike the idea of having the Pope single out politicians AND single them out on a specific political issue.

This is not a Pope who says that you should live your life, and try to make society around you, in a way that is consistent with the Bible's teachings. There are things that we can heartily dislike morally and philosophically, but put up with in society, because to legislate such matters brings about bad social results. There is a very valid distinction between legislating public policy and legislating the ideals of morality (and, frankly, I'm all for traditional morality).

Furthermore, as an atheist, it really bothers me when people use religious grounds for public policy decisions when secular reasoning is more than adequate. We live in a country that explicitly does not allow religion as a basis for legislation. Telling us to act or vote a certain way because of the Bible carries as much weight in legislative decision-making as claiming that one's tea leaves indicated that said decision is the most wise.

Catholics are split on the death penalty, although the Bible explicitly permits it for certain crimes. As for abortion: while theologians are split as to whether or not the Bible speaks to that issue, most believe that the Bible is silent on a great many specific issues, but the prohibition remains because of general prohibitions. For example, the Bible is silent on the use of cocaine, but Christians are nevertheless discouraged from taking it because the body is the temple of God and violation of it is not permissible - even if the Bible does not enumerate every possible means of violating it.

Kimmy,

Being an atheist, I can't give you a good answer on why the Pope is able to do what he is doing, but I heartily disagree that he should not or cannot, under the Bible.

Jesus often commanded his disciples to love one another, and, most importantly, to spread his word. (I'll find the cite later.) Assuming, arguendo, that abortion is contrary to Biblical teachings, then the Pope is under a religious duty to spread the word of God and to stop it.

I like Margaret Cho's take on the Pope. An old man in a dress, with lots of jewels, surrounded by other mens...

Will the Pope be excommunicating Giuliani? That would be hilarious. He's pro-choice. He even donated to Planned Parenthood.

Let's get one thing straight: RUDY GIULIANI IS NOT PRO-CHOICE. He says he is. The media says he is. Truth is, he's not.

He supported the recent abortion ban which had NO exceptions for a woman's life or health.

Sayna,

Are you referring to the Partial Birth Abortion Ban, which explicitly has an exception for the woman's life?

This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth
abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is
endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury,
including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising
from the pregnancy itself.

The Mayor of Mexico City, Marcelo Ebrard, declared publicly that he wished for a copy of the excommunication to be delivered to his office. Just a day later, Cardenal Rivera had to backpedal and assure that "no one said anything about an excommunication". I am so glad that this horrible man is being forced to shut up.