what. the. fuck.

. . . When I was about 6 years old in the early 90s, my family lived in SC for a brief time. Once I was asked to go swimming with a friend's family, and my mom wouldn't let me go. I cried for a long time and was really upset. It was only years later, when I mentioned it to my mom, that she told me she wouldn't let me go because it was a SEGREGATED POOL. It was a private pool that could only be attended by whites. And the public pool was where the black people in town (and I guess some whites) went. My mom was outraged by this, and my friend's mother just kept saying "oh, they don't mind."

Now I live in upstate NY and no one here believes that story.

I love how the segregated proms are "not racist, just tradition."

Let's get this straight people: Any tradition founded in racism (like, um, segregation) is a racist tradition, and participation in such an event makes you a racist.

I'm not usually in favor of mandatory sterilization, but holy jeebus, some people in that town just shouldn't reproduce.

All I can say is that usually the agitation for change comes from the younger generations, so I hope that this class, and future classes, are able to realize that things need to change in their town. Maybe this prom will be a starting point. I mean, honestly, your kids have been going to school together since kindergarten, presumably, but on a night when everyone dresses up all pretty and dances to celebrate graduating... you have to seperate them. Because you don't agree with "being with the coloreds"? I would think that if any "damage" were to come to your children (like, I don't know, a more enlightened viewpoint) it would've happened long before prom night.

Still, after moving from a majority black area where I grew up (Prince Georges County right outside DC in Maryland) to a majority white area at 12 (Carroll County in western Maryland) I've seen people that still hold these attitudes. It's just disgusting.

i love how people use "tradition" as an excuse for justifying exclusionary or otherwise reprehensible behavior. people need to stop being lazy, examine what traditions they follow, and be creative enough to invent new & better traditions when the old ones don't work.

oh, and do high school kids really call their parents "mommy and daddy" aside from when they want something from them? yikes.

Wow. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised that things like this are still going on, but I am.

Way to pass the bigotry on to your kids, shitfucks.

Huh. "Nothing racial at all"? Right. So, they were just separated because...white people don't want chicken and waffles for their prom dinner?

Tradition my ass.

ElleMariachi: "Chicken and waffles"? WTF?

genny u live in caroll county! i live in randallstown! which is middle class, but predominatly black, which blows the minds of local officials who just cant figure out why taking out the giant to put in a sav-a-lot pisses everyone here off.

Chicken and waffles is a classic soul/comfort food tradition! I know it's served at more than a few down home places around here. (I live in Texas.)

This whole thing is just ridiculous. I'm glad someone finally thought about it and said, "You know what, we don't need seperate proms! I want to see all of my friends looking fabulous tonight!" Someday, these kids' parents will be dead, and their children will all be attending one prom.

When I read this on CNN two days ago I nearly laughed out loud at the absurdity of some of these kids' statements, but then I remembered the days of my southern youth and how this is something that I might have said at 16. Remember y'all, learning is a process. And these kids live in rural Georgia where racism is so thick you can cut it with a knife, but no one dares let on that they know it's there.

Coming out of lurkdom, because this is just mind-bendingly asinine.

I don't think I've heard anyone use "colored people" since my grandfather died. Rather quaint of them.

Didn't terms like that go out with, oh, Jim Crow laws?

What century is this again?

Side note: odd twist on the chicken/waffles thing here in the northwest, a place over in Ontario, Oregon - Steak and Pancakes.

Messy Jessi: I know that chicken and waffles is considered soul food. My point was that when ElleMariachi made her little quip about it being served at the Black prom, I found it to be very racist.

Just like when the old white golfer (I forgot his name) told Tiger Woods not to bring collard greens and fried chicken to the banquet.

Hey Malaika,

I'm pretty sure that Elle was being sarcastic--that she was making fun of the way that the participants were claiming that there was nothing "racial" (and by the way--what is it with people using "racial" instead of "racist" these days? It really bugs me) about, oh, segregation, and doing so by pretending to be the racist people in charge of this, making an racist argument that they were then claiming wasn't.

I think it was sarcasm, but I guess ElleMariachi will have to explain it herself.

Apparently, this year the class president is black, and some of the comments actually make me feel hopeful for the future. Some of these kids will likely grow up and think it ridiculous for their children to not go to the actual prom... and slowly, things will improve.

It's sad that it took so long, but a lot of these kids should be commented for finally taking action.

Prarielily's right...let's keep it in prespective. At least it shows that even deep-rroted racism can be cahnged by open minds asking the right questions and refusing to settle for antiquated answers.

Damn...that's what I get for commenting before coffee...please excuse the atrocious spelling/typing.

This reminds me of a professor I had in University who was from the south (don't remember exactly where). She moved to Canada so she could marry the man she loved. He refused to marry her in their home town because he feared the consequences of racism (he was black, she was white). So they moved up here and she cried with joy when she saw a loto-Quebec ad on TV featuring an interracial couple.

This is not to imply that there is no racism in Canada but I'm constantly shocked by how overt it is in the States.

I am not a native Tennessean, but I have lived here for four years and I am continually shocked by ridiculously backward things. Just when I thought I had seen it all, by boyfriend (who has lived here his whole life) told me about his high school's unofficial policy: one year the prom royalty is white, the next year the royalty is black, and so on. Once he was telling me about one of his friends, and said "oh yeah, she was really popular. She would have been prom queen, but it was a white year."

Wow. Just when I thought that adolescence couldn't possibly be any more sickening...

Um, if your traditions suck make new ones.
Prom (at it's best) is a party to celebrate with friends who are likely about to be scattered to the four winds. For the time being, it makes sense to want all of your friends there.

Every time I hear the word "colored" I giggle, I can't help it.

Yes, moon girl people still say "colored." I went to a college in northern missouri where the town hated the school and the town residents constantly referred to the black students as colored.

The town and college were predominately white so usually when there were black people the towns folk could safely assume they were students. One time my parents came to visit and they were waiting for me outside of my apartment building and this guy kept driving around the block, trying to figure out what they were doing there (and I guess to make sure two older black people weren't up to no good). He didn't stop driving by until I came out wearing my school sweatshirt and then I guess he put two and two together and left.

I've also been with friends where we were followed by the cops and, not to be mean but considering we were a bunch of black women we were even more afraid they were going to do something. They cops finally stop trailing us once we got to our destination.

My feelings about the prom are that you can't force people to do something they don't want to do. If the parents want to raise their kids to be racist fucks that's their right as parents, the same right that liberals and non-racists have to raise their children with their beliefs. If they sponsor the prom and they don't want black people then they don't have to have the black students, they just shouldn't get offended when they make themselves look like assholes.

Whenever I hear anybody talking about 'coloured' people, I wonder what colour they were before they were 'coloured'.

It was my understanding that the school had tried to integrate the prom once before, but no one showed up.

Guess somebody forgot to tell these folks that we are now a color-blind society. Racism? It's just a thing of the past.
Amazing how we're constantly told this and yet just about every week some egregious counter-example proves other-
wise.

"Just when I thought I had seen it all, by boyfriend (who has lived here his whole life) told me about his high school's unofficial policy: one year the prom royalty is white, the next year the royalty is black, and so on. Once he was telling me about one of his friends, and said 'oh yeah, she was really popular. She would have been prom queen, but it was a white year.'"

...and it sounds like interracial couples and neither-black-nor-white kids never get a chance.

Meanwhile, in some places, there's a school-sponsored integrated prom and a non-school-sponsored "Muslim prom" with no boys allowed:

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0603/105.html

"The trappings of a typical high school prom were all there: the strobe lights, the garlands, the crepe pineapple centerpieces and even a tiara for the queen. In fact, Fatima Haque's prom tonight had practically everything one might expect on one of a teenage girl's most important nights. Except boys.

"Ms. Haque and her friends may have helped initiate a new American ritual: the all-girl Muslim prom. It is a spirited response to religious and cultural beliefs that forbid dating, dancing with or touching boys or appearing without a hijab, the Islamic head scarf. While Ms. Haque and her Muslim friends do most things other teenagers do — shopping for shoes at Macy's, watching 'The Matrix Reloaded' at the mall or ordering Jumbo Jack burgers and curly fries at Jack in the Box — an essential ingredient of the American prom, boys, is off limits. So they decided to do something about it.

"'A lot of Muslim girls don't go to prom,' said Ms. Haque, 18, who removed her hijab and shawl at the prom to reveal an ethereal silvery gown. 'So while the other girls are getting ready for their prom, the Muslim girls are getting ready for our prom, so we won't feel left out.'

"The rented room at a community center here was filled with the sounds of the rapper 50 Cent, Arabic pop music, Britney Spears and about two dozen girls, including some non-Muslim friends...."

Now I wonder how many girls (non-Muslim friends, 3rd generation secular Muslims, etc.) go to *both* proms.

That is so...mind-blowing? I am at a loss for the right words, other than at least they are taking a step in the right direction? Hopefully the integrated prom will become the new tradition.

Also, the article says the school is 55% Black, 46% white...what about the other 2%? Do they have their own prom, or are they allowed to go to both proms?

I was just struck by the math...

And I found a *slightly* more positive take on the story; from CNN via the AP:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/04/22/integrated.prom.ap/index.html

At least in that article there is more emphasis on the positive change taking place.

* I mean, the article says 55% Black, **43%** white.

D'oh. See? It confused me so much that I inputted the CORRECT numbers, lol.

Gah! OK. I input the wrong numbers the first time. I wish there was an edit button....

J-To, as someone who has lived in Tennessee most of her life, I'd like to assure you that the entire state is not like that. Unfortunately, I can also tell you that, having lived elsewhere, those attitudes can be found in numerous places outside the South.

Stupidity is everywhere.

"I don't think I've heard anyone use "colored people" since my grandfather died. Rather quaint of them."

My Mother still uses the term (out of habit, not racism) and I always tell her to use "black" instead of "coloured".

Last week she asked me a question for which I had no answer:

Why is "coloured person" an unacceptable term, while "person of colour" is ok?

RM, I'm sure that there is an offical answer to your question, and that someone will come along and give it to you. I don't know it, but here's my unofficial answer: because "person of color" is the term that seems to be preferred by persons of color. I always make it a point to try my best to call people what they would like to be called. Politics aside, it seems to me to just be respectful to refer to a person by the term that they prefer. Sure, you (a hypothetical you) may think that having to say "Native American" instead of "American Indian" is stupid (I don't). But that is what Native Americans, for the most part, have asked to be called, so show some damn respect. If I manage to accidentally to use the wrong identifying term, I don't try to argue the point, I just apologize, say that I was genuinely ignorant and then correct my behavior in the future.

But that's just my opinion :)

Oh, it also just occured to me that "colored person" seems to refer primarily to black people, where as "person of color" refers to a range of non-white ethnicities, and is used as an inclusive term rather than a term used to exclude people. Maybe that's the official answer!

heh heh he...
Oh, wait. That's not even surprising enough to be funny.

As we might have gathered from previous regionalist rants o' mine, I'm from the South. And I want to share something from my own high school experience: if this school is big enough / affluent enough to have an AP track, these kids are not in the same classes either. They started seperating out halfway through middle school, and now only see each other in vocational tech and gym.

p.s. before high school (both my high schools were racially diverse) I was in a school / town with one black family, and I never heard of any unkindness towards them, but it's interesting how massively confused we all were when the first Hispanic family moved in. Especially after our teacher explained (not in so many words) that they weren't honorary black people. I'm from a progressive family, and even I had gotten disgustingly accustomed to the world being white and Not White.

Does the North really not have unofficial segregation of this type? Same neighborhoods, same schools, same classes, same cafeteria tables? I'm asking out of genuine curiousity, the last school I went to outside the Carolinas was in the first grade.

Yes and no. The school system I'm most familiar with, the NYC public school system, does not have tracking. What it does have are schools that end up being predominantly black or predominantly white or predominantly Latino based on neighborhood (class issues come into play here, as well--a public high school in Bensonhurst is going to be not only predominantly white, but predominantly working-class Italian). Magnet schools, however, draw students from all over the city (they are public schools that are particularly good and that require testing to attend--I suppose that's a form of tracking, but as far as I know, you wouldn't have tracking within a school), and they take classes together, etc. Cafeteria tables are a different matter, because that's about the company students choose to keep, rather than the way racial-socio-economic factors sort them.

I guarantee, though, that you would never have a segregated prom. Just would. not. happen.

(watch me be proved wrong, now...)

Raging Moderate:
Cara has covered the main reason that "person of color" is okay and "colored person" isn't. I'd add the smaller point that when you choose a slightly more awkward or redundant locution, you telegraph to your listener that you're not being glib, not rushing to use the first term that comes to your mind. That bit of extra work connotes respect. For this reason, "person with disabilities" can come across as more respectful than "disabled person."