I've interpreted Trudeau's take on feminism as saying that its really important, it just needs to fight today's battles (like Feministing!) instead of those of yesteryear.

Speaking of which, Ann Althouse and I recently got into an argument over EXACTLY that. Here's the link.

Hmmm... thanks for the link, Wade -- although, for what it's worth (and I usually disagree with Althouse, so this is funny), I'm 25 and I ABSOLUTELY think that the name-changing issue is a huge and current one.

So... the old fuddy-duddies aren't the only ones getting worked up about the expectation that it's more acceptable for a woman to lose her identity, which absolutely still exists. Just sayin'.

I'm surprised that more women don't keep their names. My girlfriend plans to keep hers forever, as does my roommate's fiance. This is just anecdotal, but, looking around at my friends and classmates, almost all of the married women have taken their husband's name.

Yeah, me too, TLF. I would maybe consider it a non-issue if the majority of women in this country had ever kept their names, but it seems to me that moving forward, the next logical step would be for women to pass their last names onto their children. I've never really understood the desire to change one's name.

Further...if those battles had been won, I'd be willing to let them lie. But one only has to look at abortion rights to see what happens if we don't hold the line every inch.

Wade-
I DO NOT plan to change my name to my fiance's, in fact we are going to make up a different last name together.
I'm only 23 and I don't think the name change business is an old battle. Just a few months ago there was a case about a guy trying to change his name to his wife's and they had to jump through like 90 extra hoops. That shows the name battle is not over. You are dismissing a lot of people's real experience by making that blanket statement.
(Although OBVIOUSLY there are more pressing feminist issues.)
Like the Law Fairy, I would agree more with Ann than you based on the link you provided.

Also "keeping" your name is just as bad, 'cause it's typically your father's, and therefore it's just as patriarchal. Just sayin.'

Eh, I've heard that argument before, about my last name being my father's name, and I don't buy it. It's my name. I've had it ever since I was born, just like he did. It hasn't been on loan; it's mine. My mother picked out my first name, but then she gave it to me. So now it's mine. I've had my first name and my last name for the same amount of time, and they're both mine. Names have to start somewhere (and mine is a matrynomic, actually, indicating that way back when it was first chosen, it was based on the mother's first name), and this one can start, matrilineally, with me.

EG, I think that's the point exactly -- we need to be careful that we're not ceding ground, ANYWHERE. We need to remember that even if a majority of people just plain don't give a shit, there are lurkers in the wings who will take a shot at women the first chance they get.

It gets exhausting, frankly. I'm impressed that there ARE older feminists. I'm still in my mid-twenties and I have days where I wonder how much strength I have left to keep fighting these constant constant battles on every front. Actually making the effort to speak up and make sure I get equal respect/credit in my workplace. Confronting people, gently, when they make unintentionally sexist remarks -- and then usually having to get into a mentally exhausting fifteen-minute (or more!) conversation explaining WHY they are sexist. Constantly re-examining my life to make sure that *I* am not acting as a sexist, and also that I am not simultaneously making myself miserable just by being AWARE of inequality.

It's fucking tiring. I'm compelled to give kudos to ANY woman who makes it to middle age-ish and still considers herself an honest-to-God feminist.

Anyway, to try and bring it all back, full circle, to Doonesbury :0) I guess I'd have to see more comics to know if simply addressing the fact that women have body issues counts as "feminism"... it seems to me it's kind of "in vogue" to comment on body issues nowadays, and in some ways could almost be seen as being ANTI-feminist. I think that by focusing our attention on the desire to be thin, in some ways we pathologize modern American womanhood in a way that is more demeaning than helpful. For one thing, there are lots of men who also have major body issues. For another, when we look at body issues as simply being about WEIGHT, we completely miss the point. For a very very short time in my life, I was anorexic (fortunately got it under control before I became unhealthy). My brother has also struggled with it(to some extent still does, though he's much healthier than he used to be), although because he is male he is unable to admit that's what it is. The common denominator between us? Not a desire to be physically attractive to the opposite sex (the girls always LOVED him growing up, if anything it made him horribly shy). Not a desire to look like movie stars. The common denominator is that we both grew up with a very controlling father, and fucking with our bodies was a way to re-assert control. I've come to terms with this, but because we have such a hard time acknowledging that these issues affect men as well (and WHY), I don't know if he has.

Anyway, this is kind of my long-winded way of saying that I don't think a comic showing a woman who struggles with her desire to be thin but also to eat a donut, is particularly feminist. Y'all are welcome to disagree, though :)

IF, if I ever got married, I wouldnt give a damn about having my wifes name instead of my own. I never got all this name keeping business anyway, since its most likely because my surname means nothing to me. My father was Shipley, My mother was Brown, and somehow Lawrence came out from my fathers side of the family somewhere.

Now since he topped himself when I was a little sprog, and My mum remarried and changed her name again, Im left with a rather redundant surname as I never even knew anyone from my fathers side of the family anyway.

Okay maybe I didnt need to give out my life story to simply say "Bollocks to it, if I meet a women who wants to keep her own name, she can for whatever reasons. I dont care."

As for the strip, I didnt see the earlier one, but it doesnt look THAT bad to me. Didnt make me laugh though.

I don't mind what others do, I was just explaining why I want to change my name. I personally like the idea of making up my own name. I was always much closer to my mother's extended family than my father's, so I always wished my last name was her maiden name (although obviously that was her father's name). . . . Anyway, no offense meant EG.

Oh, God, none taken, Semelee, and I hope you didn't take any from my comments, either! I was just explaining why I don't think the desire to keep your name as a feminist statement is undermined by the name often coming from the dad.

I've known more than one couple who've chosen a name together when they got married, and I kind of think it's a very romantic thing to do. Murder on the genealogists of course, but that's their problem!

Maybe I misspoke in my previous comment.

I realize that women of roughly my age choose to keep their name for all sorts of reasons. My point was that the issue of women keeping their own last name was controversial when my mother was my age, but it doesn't seem to be controversial anymore. Women can keep their name, take their husband's name, or choose an altogether different name. I think its safe to say that it is an issue that feminists have already won. But that's just my opinion; I haven't lived in the parts of the country where something like this is likely to still be controversial.

Wade-
Why don't you look at it the other way? It may be easy for women to change/not change their name, but what about men?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/01/12/man_files_lawsuit_to_take_wifes_name/

Why doesn't my (male) fiance have a choice of taking my name or one of our choosing just as easily?

honwood is a combination of my father's last name and my mother's maiden name. it's what i'll be changing to after the divorce.

The battle over names has most certainly NOT been won by feminists.

I've heard countless guys declare that their future wives WILL take their last names or else they're not marrying them. I get looks from other women, too, when I mention that I don't intend to take the man's name if I marry.

"That's just what women do!" people exclaim. The fact that women (and men) don't examine WHY that's "just what women do" should tell you something about where the public stands on the issue.

A friend of mine who recently got married was pressured by her in-laws to take her husband's name. They informed her they would read it as a "personal affront" if she didn't. I do think keeping one's name not very controversial for a lot of people, Wade, but definitely not for everyone.

Eh... Wade, I still don't buy that it's non-controversial. I live in Los Angeles, which is one of the liberal capitals of the western world, and I think it is still somewhat controversial. One of my friends got married a couple years ago, and people STILL assume she has taken her husband's last name (she hasn't). Another friend felt pressured into taking her husband's name and did so, even though she hadn't really planned on it (but it just wasn't a big deal to her). Both of these women live, again, in LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA.

Plus, as EG noted, having children take the mother's last name is still HIGHLY controversial, even taboo. Hell, Angelina Jolie's children, WHO HAD HER NAME FIRST, went and took Brad Pitt's name after the wedding.

The name thing is still a very, very big issue. It's not at all fair to say this is a battle we've won. Yes, we've won the legal right to keep our names -- well, in the late 19th century black people had the legal right to vote. Yet voting disenfranchisement of black Americans remained RAMPANT for decades afterwards. Just because we technically have a legal right, does not mean we've won the battle by any stretch.

I don't think it's fair to say that it's a battle that's been won, either. I kept my last name when I got married (goig on 2 years now) and I still have extended family and "friends" who I don't see very often completely refuse to acknowledge that fact, and send everything to me at Cara My Husband's Last Name. I've told them countless times and the next time it's still the same. It's insulting and disrespectful-- and I doubt that I'm the only one with the problem.

I didn't mean to pick a fight over this. I'm sure it is still controversial in certain families and social circles. Family members, particularly in-laws, sometimes look for things to criticize each other about, and different communities have different standards for this sort of thing. Most women I know for whom this is a serious issue say things like "I couldn't get serious about a guy who wanted me to change my name," and I think that's great -- against, its their choice.

Anecdotally, I haven't seen it cause any controversies in a professional setting, or that sort of thing. Some of my law school classmates have kept their names, others have taken their husbands' names, and I haven't heard people comment about it either way. Then again, that's just me, and Madison is probably a relatively open-minded climate.

I'm interested in hearing what other readers have to say about this issue in their own lives!

Wade-

You never responded to my point that men can't change their names to their fiances or to a different name unless they pay extra money, do extra paperwork, etc.
Do you not see how this is significant to the discussion? The other side of the coin, so to speak?

Sure, I see that side of the issue, I didn't know you wanted me to respond to it. I don't plan on changing my name, for all of the reasons a lot of women don't want to change theirs! But, having said that, I don't see how eliminating the requirements that men have to pay money and do paperwork in order to change their name is a significant feminist issue.

“The battle over names has most certainly NOT been won by feminists.�

Oh, most definitely not. Here are a few examples:

1- It annoys me that everyone (in the US) always assumes my Mom’s surname is the same as mine and my Dad’s. It isn’t (and that’s not b/c my mom is an ardent feminist; in my culture it’s just not common to change your name after marriage.)

2- A few years ago my boyfriend and I got into a serious argument about that because he said he was offended to find out I wasn’t gonna take his name if we got married. Needless to say that made me furious.

3- A couple of days ago my mother-in-law was booking a trip for after the wedding next year and she needed to give the names, she emailed to ask what my married name will be, suggesting she hoped it would be her son’s last name added to mine.

“I don't see how eliminating the requirements that men have to pay money and do paperwork in order to change their name is a significant feminist issue.�

Well it’s not a “significant� feminist issue. That’s why you don’t see feminists taking part in make-it-easier-for-men-to-change-their-names marches. Semlee wasn’t saying that it was either. Just that it is an example of how the name change issue and how it is viewed by society is not non-controversial.

Um, Wade, the name issue (whether we are talking about it as it applies to men or women) is a feminist issue, because feminism is supposed to be about men and women having EQUAL RIGHTS, therefore, men and women should have an EQUAL RIGHT to change or not change their name when they get married (which men obviously don't based on the fact they have to pay extra, etc). This is further evidence that the name battle is NOT solved, because just like Cara said she keeps getting mail to her husband's last name, MY (male) fiance is sure to still get mail under his name if he changes his name to mine or another one. The fact men can't easily change their names further demonstrates how society sees it as a "norm," for men to keep their names and women to change them.

I don't see how eliminating the requirements that men have to pay money and do paperwork in order to change their name is a significant feminist issue.

Because the fact that women don't have to jump through hoops while women don't reflects the societal expectation that women WILL change their names and men WILL not change theirs. Men don't change their names more often for several reasons, but one of them is definitely that it's seen as a Woman's Thing. Anytime we penalize men for acting "too feminine" that is an attack on feminine gender identity, and I think THAT is a feminist issue.

I don't think it is the most important issue (I said in an earlier post that I "OBVIOUSLY" think their are more important feminist issues, but I would equally say that a law that made it hard for men to obtain child custody was a FEMINIST issue, because that law works under the assumption that all women should get the children and all men should not (just like the extra fees for the name change), instead of recognizing men and women as individuals with different goals and choices.

Hey, sojourner--you're getting married? Congrats!

The battle will have been "won" when little girls no longer scribble their first names paired with the last names of whomever they're crushing on.

Craney808 - what an interesting point! Wow. I don't know what to say, but I so so feel that.

I'm ardently anti-surname-changing-because-of-marriage, but sometimes some people just make you look at discussions from a completely different perspective. Nice one!

Personally, I see keeping my name after marriage as a feminist issue, but for different reasons. In my job, my name goes on work that I do. I'd like to have continuity in my professional portfolio and make it easy for people to recognize my work as mine, whether it was from before or after marriage. Men have that continuity—I intend to have it as well.

Of course, I'm divorced and went through all the effort of getting my birth name back. There's no way I was keeping my ex-husband's name. (This was before my current career.) After all that work, I am never giving up my name again.

Words have power. My name shapes my identity, and that identity is as the woman I am and will always be, not as the spouse I may become.

Ohhh, thanks SBJ!

Hell, I wonder what it'd be like to have my boyfriend's last name rather than Crane. But I'm 99% he has never considered what his name would sound like with my last name (or any other girl/woman for that matter).

It's something men just take for granted.
With girls, it's so automatic. If you love someone and marry them you acquire their last name. Until that's no longer "just how it is," the battle's not nearly over.

That should read, "99% sure..."

Right. The name changing issue is a VERY current feminist issue precisely because the vast majority of women continue to change their names upon marriage. The default assumption that women's identities are less important has prevailed. The default assumption that women should be eager to accept a badge of second class citizenship has prevailed. As a woman I have to explain to people all the time why I didn't give up my name. I have to explain that yes, I DO love my husband, despite the fact that I didn't give up my name. My husband doesn't have to go around explaining his choice to keep his name. The sacrifice of a woman's identity as an individual is (at least symbolically) the way women are still expected to express love for their husbands!

I also view the opportunity for men to change their names upon marriage as a feminist issue. Until it is accepted that name changing is a choice either sex makes, name changing upon marriage will always mark women as lesser.

Is this a significant issue? I think looking at it in terms of significant/ not significant is the wrong way to go. It is a SYMBOLIC issue -- and, as symbolic issues go, a particular potent one.

Some of my law school classmates have kept their names, others have taken their husbands' names, and I haven't heard people comment about it either way.

Interesting, Wade. Like you, I went to law school in a large city in the midwest. But the MAJORITY of female lawyers I know have taken their husband's last names. Off the top of my head, I can think of one female lawyer who I know for sure has not taken her husband's name, whereas I can think of at least five to ten, right off the bat, who have.

Conversely, I cannot think of a single male lawyer who has taken his wife's name. I know one male lawyer and one male law student who combined their names with their wives' names, a la Mayor Villaraigosa.

So, my anecdotal evidence tells me that we're nowhere near equality.

Since you said you didn't want to pick a fight, I'll just point out that this

I'm sure it is still controversial in certain families and social circles

frankly, comes off as demeaning. You may not have meant it this way, but it kind of smacks of "look, maybe YOU guys think it's an issue, but in my enlightened progressive community, it isn't." It sounds like you're marginalizing our experiences. I understand if you're trying to say "I didn't realize" -- but if you're trying to make a larger point, that this is not a feminist issue because it isn't for you, then you're being counterproductive.

Again, I live in Los Angeles. I went to law school in Chicago. I have close friends and family in New York City. I think that if you put those three cities together, you'll find some pretty damn progressive enlightenment. And this is still a huge issue for me and my friends and family in ALL of these cities.

Weighing in kinda late on this but I'm going to echo what a lot of women have been saying: that while the name changing isn't as big an issue as say, reproductive rights, it's still an issue we're fighting because it's still a patriarchal expectation that women take their husbands last name. From what I've heard the last name thing was either a kind of consolation prize to men (sorry you can't have babies yourself, here, it has your last name!) and also an issue of paternity, (I kept my wife in check, this child is most definitely mine!). Then again, women were considered less than men and not deserving of passing their last names onto their children. (there's also the story of Athena, she did something and I can't remember what, but her punishment was that human male children no longer had to take their mother's last names).

If I get married then I'm keeping my last name. I asked my mother one day why she didn't hyphenate or keep her last name and she told me point black that she liked my dad's last name better. I like the combination of my first name with the last, and I kinda have a unique name because of it and I want to keep it. If they guy has a problem with that, so be it.

And also, a friend of mine got married about two years ago and later when I was addressing a letter to her I stopped and took the time to IM her to see if she'd taken her husband's last name before I addressed the letter. She'd kept her last name and was happy that I'd asked first:)

Off topic, but did anyone read this?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/25/the-supreme-courts-catholic-majority/#respond

Naming is an important issue when we think of it in terms of owning our own identity. During slavery, people were given their owners' names (changing with each sale); there is a parallel in marriage, a fact that first wave feminists of the 19th c. were well aware of. I kept my own name [i refuse to refer to it as my 'maiden' name] and my children bear a merged name beginning with mine and ending with their father's. Patriarchal lineage and ownership in the paternalistic institution of slavery are intimately connected. Too many women college students still assume that they will give up their name upon marriage, and those that don't almost never think about using their identity in the naming of their children. Despite all the hassles and requests for clarification, etc., I have never regretted and often rejoiced that my children bear my last name.

What really saddens me (oh, hi, first time commenter!) is when women say things like "Well, I just don't really care for my name" or "It's too hard for people to say" or "It makes us really feel like a family" when the real answer is "I'm doing this because I am a woman and it is what is expected of me."

And I do actually care what other people do because it does affect me. It makes it harder for me to keep my own name when there are still women my age giving their own names up. That doesn't mean that I begrudge them; it's their choice, but man if it doesn't bug me sometimes.

When we were married, my husband took my last name. Entirely his idea. His was long and hard to spell; mine is short and easy.

I read not too long ago about a couple who had filed suit, with the help of the ACLU, in federal court, because he (in CA) wasn't permitted to change his name by marriage (as opposed to by getting court order). The article said that only seven states permit the husband to take the wife's name.

However, my state wasn't listed, and yet we didn't really have any problem. He just signed his new name on the marriage license, just as I would have done, and then used it to get a new driver's license and social security card. The DMV gave him a little hassle; the guy called his supervisor, who then called HIS supervisor, but eventually he got the okay. Otherwise, no problem.

I agree, it's a feminist issue when it's harder for men than women to change names. Names are powerfully symbolic, of course.

While I'm at it, I'd like to gripe about the "Ms." thing. I like to go by "Ms." because I don't see why my marital status should be any more relevant than that of all the "Mr."s out there. But it really irks me that most forms have four options now: "Mr." "Mrs." "Miss" and "Ms." Translation: "Man" "Wife" "Sexually Available" and "Feminazi." Pisses me off.

Thanks EG :-)