I have seen this piece before. It's very powerful, and many women I know who were date raped have had this experience.

There is an email response that goes with that postcard. It is from a woman who says she married her rapist, had 3 kids with him, and only now after 25 years is realizing why she suffers from depression.

Wow. This postcard is... It's exactly what happened to me. I didn't remember what had really happened until I wrote a short story about it. I started out writing it, thinking it was a love story. And then when I really allowed myself to think about that night, I realized that I never said yes. In fact, I said no. You know how they say that when you're in a group of 3 or more women, odds are one of them has been sexually assaulted? I realized that she was me. But the realization, the remembering actually freed me.

All I can say is reading that hit close to home for me too. But for an entirely different reason than the above comments.
I just realized that I'm not as open-minded as I need to be.

Thanks for the eye opener.

This postcard really strikes a chord in me.

My ex, who raped me more times than I can count, still tries to get in touch with me so that we can "be friends." If I told him that he raped me for most of our relationship, he'd think I was crazy. G'uh.

I always wonder if rape survivors are talking more about physical force or psychological badgering.

I'm glad this was posted since I know many girls who have been in that situation and people I tell (especially men but also women) are always so shocked that such a thing could happen.

I read postsecret every week . . . this one struck me, too.

Wow. I think that speaks very powerfully, especially on the nuances of rape that society doesn't realize. Mainstream misogyny would have us believe that women run screaming, with their hands in the air, as soon as anything that can be construed as rape happens to them, but the truth is that most women stay silent and ashamed.

My mother was repeatedly gang raped by all four of her brothers and her father throughout her early childhood, but did not admit it until she was forty-one years old after three years of counseling for unexplained PTSD. Not only did this happen to her, but two of her cousins experienced rape either by their father or brother(s) before they hit puberty. And all the while, their mothers knew, but couldn't say anything, out of fear of their husbands.

I lived in the culture, the super-masculine machismo culture of Catholic Hispanics, and I know what she's talking about -- the fear and intimidation, and the shame. But I still can't imagine it. And I think that's why society is afraid to acknowledge the depth and scope of rape, because then you would know how bad it can get.

A friend of mine in college went through this same thing. Her rapist told her she "owed him" because he'd bought her dinner. It was her first time. It was their first date.

I have no idea what ever happened with them - last I can recall she was still dating him, but I know I pretty much just stopped asking. I was just too appalled and, I'm ashamed to say, judgmental, about the whole thing. Obviously we drifted apart after college, but this makes me wonder whatever did happen to her.

To Donna Darko: In my friend's case, from what I recall it was a murky combination of both physical and psychological coersion. He was getting physical, she wanted him to slow down, he refused and began telling her how she "owed him" since he'd paid for her dinner and her movie ticket and all of that junk. She was ultimately overwhelmed because she didn't have the strength to fight a battle on both "fronts".

Wow. I didn't know such a thing was possible. I would venture to offer an analysis, but I don't think I could do anybody justice :(

All I can say is rape, particularly the emotions these women have felt after being raped, is an issue that is very upsetting, but extremely foreign and difficult to grasp, for someone like myself. I really just don't know how to relate or understand it in any way that, as I said, does it any justice.

And yet I feel compelled to say something!

Thorn, that sounds awful.

Wow, ikkin . . . that's one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. I can't even imagine what it would be like to go through/deal with that.

I can easily see how this would happen. My first boyfriend was very very pushy when it came to sex. There weren't a lot of times when I was directly asked what I wanted to do and a lot of times when I expressed what I did want to do (usually sleep) and was pushed and conjoled until I would have sex. It was a bad situation all around for a lot of different reasons and I was happy to get out of it. I never called what happened 'rape' just because I don't believe the intention I think is behind most rapes (i.e, an expression of power or dominance) was there, it had more in common with emotional abuse. Still, I think more women are in situations like this than one would think.

But I don't know how to fix it, other than educating girls to learn to stand up for themselves and educating boys that they're not entitled to sex and to LISTEN to 'no' or 'not right now' or whatever it may be. I have a lot of sympathy for this woman and all the women who've posted about their experiences or the experiences of people close to them. Hopefully some minds will be opened.

I was sexually assaulted by my grandfather and for a long time I didn't understand it. I was so confused when he told me he loved me because I didn't know if he meant it in an 'adult' way or a 'grandpa' way. Because of the situation of him being in my family I didn't tell anyone and played sweet 'grandaughter' any time he and other family members were around. I tried so hard to make sure no one found out that I actually would convince myself that we had a normal grandpa-granddaughter relationship. I found this ad very powerful immediately as well, but I didn't think I related to it at first. Now, I see that I do. He was my abuser, but my grandfather. Someone I hated, and someone I loved... but also hated and feel ashamed for loving. I think this kind of nuanced experience with rapists/assaulters is more common than I have actually ever considered.

It applies to rape and any type of violence: there is always the desire, when the abuser or rapist is close to you, to pretend that it wasn't really that bad.

We can start by teaching women that things just aren't their fault. I'm all for personal responsibility, but women internalise violence because they have been taught that they have to be "nice" and "play nice" and "get along" and "be pleasant."

Maybe we ought to teach women that they are valid, worthwhile humans, first and foremost?

"Maybe we ought to teach women that they are valid, worthwhile humans, first and foremost?"

Great idea. Better yet, start before they're women.

Correction well taken - thanks, Mina! :)

I saw this secret on Sunday's post and like many people here it hit way too close to home for me. It brings up many bad memories for me, memories that I wished to forget. Yet by knowing that other women have gone through the same thing encourages me. It it nice to know that we are not alone in this world.

Oh my god.....this is just so sad. I admit I had no idea that this sort of thing is so common.

Oh my god.....this is just so sad. I admit I had no idea that this sort of thing is so common.

Oh my god.....this is just so sad. I admit I had no idea that this sort of thing is so common.

The Post Secret card rang true for me as well. I used to think that I had betrayed myself by continuing the relationship with the guy who raped me. Now I understand that it was a matter of survival. The love and support of some very strong women in a rape survivors support group helped me to move through and beyond that experience. Even still, I carry some part of it with me to this day.

I have (thankfully) never been raped, but I was in an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship with my first boyfriend when I was 14. We didn't have intercourse, but there were many times when he wanted to engage in sexual play that I didn't, and just kept trying and asking until I eventually gave up and did it. It took me a long time to realize that what he did was wrong and abusive and not my fault. Sometimes I still have nightmares about him and though I'm happily married now to a wonderful, feminist man, I still have a lot of difficulty trusting men.

What I'm getting at here is that I always thought my situation was somewhat unique. To find out that it's not-- and that so many other women had/have relationships that actually involve rape-- causes very complex feelings on my part. On the one hand, I feel less like a "freak" and a victim. On the other hand, it's absolutely tragic to know how much company I have in such an awful situation.

Ooh, thanks for reminding me to check postsecret. Always fascinating. Sometimes funny, and, at times like this, incredibly sad.

I check Post Secret each week and this caught my eye as well. Each week there are at least 1-2 powerful entries.

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

I didn't break up with the boyfriend who raped me in college because see, if I pretended everything was okay, then I hadn't really been raped, right? Riiiight.

To this day, I typically get one of two responses from people when I tell them this story: Either the rape wasn't so bad (because I stayed, der) or it wasn't really rape. Oh, I occasionally get told that it wasn't really rape because I didn't fight hard enough.

Fun times.

Thorn, I have always insisted on paying my own way on dates, in part because I just think it's fair, but also precisely because I didn't want to give any man an excuse to think he'd "bought" me.

But it happened to me, too, despite my precautions. He was a friend and former lover. And the thought that I actually managed to cooperate in my own rape because I didn't want to embarrass him (or myself) by "making a scene" shames me deeply.

Oh, I occasionally get told that it wasn't really rape because I didn't fight hard enough.

Or maybe, you're just so shocked that someone would do that to you and just so scared that you can't fight like you usually can - like everyone would expect that you would.

--
Re: dates. If a man pays, you do owe him: you owe him a home-cooked meal, tickets to the theatre, a picnic lunch in the park, or treating him next time. Any man who thinks you owe him sex is looking for a prostitute - the currency being cuisine, not cash, but there's little difference.

(Somewhat divergent story: I once paid for the date - first real date as a couple - and got dumped later that night while I was lying in his arms because I wouldn't put out. Some men just use paying as an excuse to pressure for what they want anyway: it's not about the money or the relationship so much as about the expectation that he will be completely fulfilled, and to hell with the woman's feelings.)

ancrenewiseass, I'm so sorry.

I know the opinion of a stranger off the internet isn't going to help, but I think oenophile's point is valid. Date rapists use paying for a date to reassure themselves that they have done nothing wrong. They can wake up the next morning and tell themselves that they did not force a woman, she "owed it" to them. It's just an excuse, and denied that excuse they will find another.

You rape was not a sign of your weakness, it was a sign of his monstrosity.

I know I don't know you from Eve, but I am certain of that all the same.

Thorn

I never called what happened 'rape' just because I don't believe the intention I think is behind most rapes (i.e, an expression of power or dominance) was there, it had more in common with emotional abuse.

Emotional abuse is about power and dominance. I've dated one very unsubtle emotional abuser, who, after we broke up, would sit around thinking of reasons to call me and give me hell at work in hopes I'd start crying and humiliate myself in front of my coworkers.

I know the opinion of a stranger off the internet isn't going to help, but I think oenophile's point is valid. Date rapists use paying for a date to reassure themselves that they have done nothing wrong. They can wake up the next morning and tell themselves that they did not force a woman, she "owed it" to them. It's just an excuse, and denied that excuse they will find another.

Well, in a way that's why it doesn't matter if he pays or not. Because if you pay, he'll have another excuse to rape you if that's his intention.

I'm another woman this hits too close to home for.

I can't count the number of times I've been raped, but there were at least three men, and I dated one for two years.

Every time they pushed me just a little farther, they wouldn't let me go to sleep, or they just wouldn't stop touching me. And since I've internalized a crippling inability to say no, I let it happen.

And every time my head was pushed down into their lap, every time they pushed me back down or bent me back over after I tried to get up, I blamed myself. It never got extremely physically violent, but there was enough psychological manipulation and physical intimidation to get me to submit (and it didnt' take much).

For a long time I thought I was alone, and when I realized I wasn't it didn't make me feel any better.

This shouldn't be so common. Our culture swallows girls and young women whole, robbing us of our voices and our identities before we have a chance to find them.

Just after reading this thread this morning, I had a conversation with my 19-yr-old sister, who's a first-year college student taking a class on Sexual Ethics. She happened to mention, in the context of another story about the class, that the college sexual harassment policy states that in order for sex to be consensual, both people have to verbally affirm that they want to have sex.

I was like, "Well, yeah, that makes sense."

And she was like, "An-na. What, you're supposed to stop in the middle of making out and ask: 'Do you want to have sex?'"

I was like, "Um, yeah. Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. You know: just checkin' in and all."

She thinks this it pretty uptight-militant-feminist of me (and the harassment policy) and completely unrealistic. Sigh.

Not sure how directly related to the above this is, but it struck me afterwards that resistance to principle of explicit consent helps perpetuate that who was-it-rape/wasn't-it-rape? culture that young women (and men) seem to be steeped in.

Plus, I just like the principle of affirmative consent ("yes, this feels good,") rather than a constant emphasis on "no means no." It seems like it would get us all into the habit of articulating our positive desires more fully.

I lost my virginity in a date rape. That was before we had a word to describe it. It was years before I stopped telling the "romantic" story of my first time on a beautiful spring day in a forest and acknowledged to myself that I had been raped.

I find "date rape" to be a rather strange term. "Rape" is horrible and its full horror should always be front and center in talking about it. Using terms like "date rape" implies, at least to me, some "lesser" form of rape. Not a good practice.

R.

It has been 10 years since I ended a very messed up relationship that involved a lot of emotional and psychological abuse and I can admit I was abused but still feel confused over the question of sexual abuse. Was I raped? I'm still not sure. After all, he was my boyfriend and I never explicitily said no. In fact, I felt like my only worth in that relationship was as a sexual toy. The relationship even degraded into something akin to prostitution, with me performing sexual acts for favours, such as the right to be left the hell alone.
About 5 years ago I randomly saw this ex on the street and ducked into an alley and proceeded to bawl my eyes out. Even though I'm in a healthy relationship now and have learned to trust men again (well, sort of), I still feel afraid of that man and feel very ashamed that I allowed myself to get into that situation in the first place.
Well... at least now I know I'm not alone, and maybe it wasn't my fault after all.

When I was 16, just a few months after I lost my virginity to my first real boyfriend, his best friend raped me. It was such a shitty situation. The boyfriend, I’ll call him A, was physically and emotionally abusive to me and cheated on me less than a month after the first time we had sex. The other guy, who I’ll call J, was my friend way before A and would defend me against him and comfort me when I cried about A, etc. Sometimes we would even sleep in the same bed together in a totally platonic non-sexual way (our group of friends was like that).
J had always wanted to be in a relationship with me and soon A started leaving me at places with no ride or making me walk home, so I would call J to pick me up. Eventually I started letting him kiss me and then one time we were at a friend of mine’s house and we were kissing and he kept trying to take off my clothes and I started crying and telling him I loved A and that I did not want to sleep with him. We eventually did have sex because he just wouldn’t stop and there was loud music playing so no one could hear what was going on. It was like what someone explained on an earlier post, I just surrendered to both the emotional and physical coercion. Plus, he was one of my best friends and I loved him and I didn’t want to hurt him, to REALLY hurt him, to make him stop, like I would have a stranger.
In the aftermath I broke up with A and was in a relationship with J for a few months, in denial just like the postcard or whatever. J had a girlfriend at the time, so the whole school called me a skank and a whore and a boyfriend-stealer. It was really unfair because at that point I had only been with one guy consensually.
When I broke up with J, I told him flat out I never wanted to be in a relationship with him and asked him why he had raped me. He didn’t really answer, but cried and apologized, said he loved me. I never spoke to him again.
So, yeah the post hit home with me, too. It was wrong for J to do that to me and I empathize with everyone else who has shared a story.
I agree with annajcook about the importance of emphasizing to young people “the principle of affirmative consent ("yes, this feels good,") rather than a constant emphasis on ‘no means no.’�

I can relate to this in a very small way, but in a valid manner nonetheless. I went to day camp until I was almost thirteen years old. The boys would always say things, but I tried to ignore them.

As the years went on, I grew up in multiple ways, as did the boys' insults. It went from "Hey, big boobs!" to "Come on over here and blow me, bitch." My "friends" told me that it wasn't a big deal. When I was upset, they got angry. "It was just a joke! They weren't being serious. You're such a baby. Just shut up," they would say.

When I was twelve, my friends and I were on the bus and were talking to a boy. He started to say things to me, like "Oh, baby, I love you," and "Will you have sex with me?" But in a mocking tone of voice, so I didn't know if he was being serious or not. I laughed it off, even when he started touching me and I told him to stop it. Then he touched my leg again, saying "I love you, let's have sex."

I later told my close friend, who already knew; our other friends had told spun the story at an angle that made me look as though I was some sort of psycho bitch.

What happened to the other posters is nothing short of horrific, and my experience is not anywhere near as awful as theirs. But it took me a while to understand that my friends were wrong and I was right, and he should not have been touching me like that, or saying that stuff to me. I don't know if you would call what he did assault—I am not aware of the proper terminology for sexual assault. But I have tasted the fear so many of you speak of. In my own small, miniscule way, I can relate.

Sorry that this is so long.

---

I feel sad for those of you that have been hurt so horribly.

annajcook, I totally agree. I don't necessarily think there should be some formalized script that everyone has to follow before having sex. That might take the fun out of things. But to me good sex involves good communication. We should definitely be emphasizing to young people that they need to make sure their partner is satisfied during sex and that they tell their partner when they are satisfied(or aren't). I love the idea of affirmative consent. I've never understood the defense of, well she didn't actually say "no," so I thought it was okay to keep going. But was she lying there unresponsive? Was she cringing the whole time? Maybe that should have been your first clue to ask if it was okay to keep going.

Without diminishing the pain that posters have described, I'd like to say that I'm disturbed at some of the descriptions of "rape" here. If a boy keeps touching you, and keeps trying to have sex with you, and, because of your personal issues, you can't say no, and end up having sex with him even though you don't want to, that's horrendous and sad. I know; I've done this myself. But he didn't rape you. You raped yourself. Rape (except for statutory rape) has an element of intent, or at least knowledge --- the guy has to know that you don't want it for it to be rape.

OK, let the excoriating begin.

Not sure how directly related to the above this is, but it struck me afterwards that resistance to principle of explicit consent helps perpetuate that who was-it-rape/wasn't-it-rape? culture that young women (and men) seem to be steeped in.

Plus, I just like the principle of affirmative consent ("yes, this feels good,") rather than a constant emphasis on "no means no." It seems like it would get us all into the habit of articulating our positive desires more fully.

I completely agree.

Also, I think an insistence on an affirmative consent basis for defining wanted vs unwanted sexual activity, of any sort, is not nearly so difficult to achieve as some people seem to suspect.

I once dated a woman who was an incest survivor, and occasionally while we were making out, she would have a flashback. She would freeze up, try to curl into a ball and turn away from me.

The difference between how she behaved during a flashback and her enthusiastic participation seconds before was not just "noticeable" but shockingly jarring. The first time it happened I practically leapt away from her, I was so convinced I had injured her in some horrible way.

Having seen that transformation in someone I loved, from enthuasiastic participant to someone who had rather seriously 'vacated the premises', I find a lot of the debate about "how do you know if she wants it or not?" ridiculous and appalling.

If a woman* is not giving just as good as she's getting - matching kiss for kiss, stroke for stroke, grope for grope, then her wishes, and thus her consent, are unclear and should be verified. Any person who cannot discern the difference between an enthusiastic, responsive partner and someone who is "humoring