But those are just regular dresses! I'd love to see pics of the dresses that were "appropriate," because some of the ones that weren't showed no cleavage at all. What the hell were the girls supposed to wear? Sacks?

I don't know if the school has noticed this, but elegant, fancy dresses for women do usually acknowledge the existence of breasts.

You're right. The dresses shown in the slide show aren't any more revealing than any typical formal dress. News outlets tend to print the extreme pictures, so I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly)that these were the worst offenders. Does anyone know if there are any examples of 'acceptable' dresses at this prom? Is there any measure of how much cleavage is too much cleavage? I'd like to see the dress code.

Oh wow -- Higgins is, like, maybe a 15 minute drive from the house I spent much of my childhood in -- in NEW ORLEANS. It might be some worthwhile context that this place isn't some wacky rural school. IIRC, it's maybe a half hour drive (if that) to Bourbon St. from there.

I've seen more revealing dresses on bridesmaids in a Catholic Wedding.

My prom dress 7 years ago was skimpier than some of those dresses. A few questions, I had were - was the prom held at their high school? Who puts together the prom? And how did they so call "fix" their dresses?

Our school's proms are never held at the high school, but at another location and planned and hosted by a prom committee, that includes the parents - NOT teachers and administrators.

The only thing that should have been banned is that red satin vest dude was wearing in #5. Unless he had a fur-lined hat.

If those are the worst of the worst, they'd have had a heart attack at my prom. I remember there was a girl wearing a dress that was held together by a series of rings along the sides and at the bust. It was, to say the least, a bit more revealing than those dresses.

I'd love to know how those dresses violate the dress-code. What's the dress-code? "Women must cover no less than 95% of their bodies at all times"?

Those look like normal prom dresses to me. Leaving aside the ridiculous notion that these girls should be punished for opting to wear the only kind of dresses stores carry (they should have handsewn their own, I suppose) there's something else I'm wondering about.
It'd be nice to see some of the girls and dresses that did get a pass, as that might confirm or allay my suspicions, but I have this cynical feeling that the "acceptable" girls were all willowy and waiflike. Virtually every girl in those photos has what can fairly be termed an ample bosom. And that makes me wonder if it wasn't just the dresses that were the issue. If that's the case, I'd be pissed off too--because I'd love to see them try to justify a "dress code" that forbids entry to students with a C cup or larger.

Grrr....

I have more cleavage then most of those dresses on a Saturday run to Trader Joe's.
I think I have to agree with Vervain and say this seems more like the girls having bosoms then what they wore over them.

jesus christ.. your country is so wierd. Those girls looked lovely, and the dresses were pretty modest.

I couldn't help but notice that most of the offenders were black and voluptuous, was that the real problem??

Maybe they shoud've asked some nice white southern belles at a purity ball for fashion advice...

I agree with everyone else's comments. If these are the worst offenders - wow. There was one that looked like it was split down the front and I agree that can be sorta risque, but I thought all the girls looked good. I remember a few years ago a friend of mine's daughter wanted a two piece dress that showed her tummy. Needless to say, her mom didn't allow it, but several girls at her prom has similar dresses. And this was a rural podunk PA town. And lets face it, girls do have breasts. We can't always hide them. Dresses often do accentuate them. If I was the parents of these girls, I would be highly ticked off. You spend a lot of money for these events (hair, shoes, dress, tickets) and I would demand a full refund from the school.

jesus christ.. your country is so wierd. Those girls looked lovely, and the dresses were pretty modest.

I couldn't help but notice that most of the offenders were black and voluptuous, was that the real problem??

Maybe they shoud've asked some nice white southern belles at a purity ball for fashion advice...

My eldest son graduated from a religious day school at which the girls' prom dresses were no different than the ones banned in Louisiana! The girl at the right of slide #7 looks just like she stepped out of Vogue--is that a problem?

Vervain and Josie, I noticed that as well. I'd be interested to see what the 'acceptable' girls looked like.

Jesus, I went to what could be considered a "wacky rural high school," and two years ago at my senior prom I wore a pink sparkly backless minidress cut down to the bellybutton in the front. Literally a miniskirt with two slivers of fabric that went up and tied behind the neck. And my 60-year-old yearbook advisor LOVED it.

But yeah, based on the slideshow, this dress code is just punishment for the students who weren't thin, flat-chested, or white enough for their teacher. Also, how fucked up is it that everywhere we look we're told to have big boobs, but, if the rest of you is anything larger than a popsicle stick, you're not acceptable? Lame.

Weren't those purity ball dresses similar?
Or is that ok to show enough "cleavage" if your father is your date?

Those poor girls! How humiliating, money wasting, adn what a let-down. And the dresses are so tame! If I were one of their parents, I would be raising hell with their school board. Prom is an important rite of passage for a lot of teens- it's too fucking rotten for words that some lame teacher spoiled it. I hate to sound sue-happy, but this is just wrong.
What does the dress code say, leave your breasts at home?

What do they want the girls wearing to their prom? I wore clothes that showed more than that on a regular school day.

Those dresses were tame! I moved to California my senior year of high school, and the public school I went to had a dress code. There were about 10 rules, and the only one that applied to girls AND boys was that no one was allowed to wear flip-flops. Supposedly this was because someone had fallen down the stairs wearing flip-flops once. The rest of the rules, however, were to combat the appearance of "sluttiness," which is actually how the principal worded it. I was a competititive swimmer and after being in a swimsuit for about 6 hours a day, having to cover myself up seemed ridiculous. I got in trouble many times for wearing a tank top or shorts that were too short. Ironically, I wore these clothes not to look sexy (far from it, in fact, I was trying to discourage attention!) but because I felt comfortable with my body, never felt like it was something I had to hide, and, most importantly, I get hyperthermia really easily. What is the deal with shaming and hiding women's bodies? I'd go topless if I could get away with it, and it has nothing to do with sex!

I don't know--my assumption from looking at the pictures was that this was a mostly black school, and of course I could be wrong. But God knows there are plenty of schools that are still de facto segregated in this country, so I'd hold off on whether or not race was a factor in turning them away from the prom until I knew who got in, if that makes sense.

Oh the West Bank (I live in New Orleans, Marrero is on the other side of the river). Right on josie and EG--according to GreatSchools.com, the school is 62% Black. Sure looked like 98% of those booted from Prom were too.

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/la/other/600#students

I agree that the girls who were singled out seem to look suspiciously similar -- I'd also be interested in seeing who actually got in.

And anyway, talk about ridiculous. I've worn shirts showing more cleavage to WORK, and they haven't fired me yet ;)

one of the girls in photo #2, both the girls in #7, and the girl in #12 all looked like they were wearing, quite literally, wedding dresses! and NONE of the girls had their rack hanging out or bursting over the top; consequently, i really want to know more of the circumstances around this incident, like what the race of the teacher is, and how new she is to the profession or that school, and what the girls who were allowed in look like...i think that there is a lot of race and size bias at work with this woman...man, i hope the parents sue but good! and i hope those girls went elsewhere and had a wicked good time...i'd be pissed, and you know they are, too.

Hmm, something I just noticed about the story.

It doesn't say whether the teacher was a man or a woman. Since it doesn't name the teacher or tell us anything about him/her, I'm kind of wondering now if it was a creeptastic dude.

I went to an all-girls Catholic high school and the same thing happened at my junior and senior proms. When you pay something like $90 to go to the dance, $200 for a dress, $30+ for shoes, $50+ to rent a tux, $45 for pictures, plus all the other expenses, what right does one teacher have to turn you away? I wonder if she knows how impossibly hard it is to find a dress to her liking. Probably because they stopped making them in the late 1800s. The girls' dresses were modest and classy compared to most and definitely would have even passed inspection at my high school.

From looking at the slideshow, it looks like most of the girls who had "inappropriate" dresses were either
1)African American
2)not skinny
3)big-chested.

Usually I am not one to play the race card, but this seems very fishy.

I saw maybe one dress that was a little revealing in that slideshow. Maybe one. Heck, those strapless white dresses looked like wedding dresses--not my idea of risque at all.

Gotta agree with everyone here. Race, boob size, and dress size seem to play a huge role here.

I vote we all wear our skimpiest prom dresses in protest in front of this high school!

I went to a Catholic high school, these don't look ANY different than the average dresses people wore to my prom, and they look MORE 'modest' than some. That teacher should be fired, in my opinion.

Gotta agree with everyone here. Race, boob size, and dress size seem to play a huge role here.

Yep. Judging by those photos, I would have been kicked out, too.

My prom dress was freakin' Laura Ashley, very '50s-looking, and approved by my extremely conservative mother. But I had DDs, and it had a v-neck. Looks like that was enough here.

By these standards I can almost guarantee there would only have been men at my prom.

Also, dress codes are used (or so they claim) so as to not disturb the learning environment -- I've been told OH SO MANY times that us ladies must not distract the poor guys from their work. I don't see what learning these dresses are disturbing.

Mashi, I HATE that argument. There are lots of really gorgeous men in the world who could easily distract me from all kinds of things. Just last night in yoga class I spied a GORGEOUS guy in the corner behind me. And guess what I did? Um, YOGA. Because that's what I fucking went there to do.

I mean, Jesus Christ people. Are women really SO MUCH MORE advanced than men that we're the only ones who can deal with this stuff? How insulting to the guys.

I'm going to agree with TLF last comment, why should I be singled out if it's the GUY who has the problem. Of course no one is going to sink money into courses teaching boys how to control themselves, oh no, they're going to punish women for daring to have breasts.

I want more than ever now to see some photos of who got in, and I'd also like to see an interview or photos of some of the girls who managed to "fix" the problem and were allowed in, because I'd like to know what they had to do to themselves to get a pass.

If things are as we suspect, I don't see how many of the girls had the option to "fix" the problem, short of draping grandma's shawl over themselves or strapping their breasts down with Ace bandages like a 1920s flapper.

Bloody hell. Much more of this kind of crap and there'll be an new, alternate meaning to "DWB"--Driving With Breasts.

I agree with almost everything everyone has said thus far. I had a prom when I graduated from elementary school, and some of the dresses girls wore to that were more revealing than the featured photos.

Also, a good portion of the girls pictured were black; am I the only who suspects that racism might have also played a role in this horrendous event?

Another thing that I just thought of... the "inappropriate" argument (at least judging from the pictures and article, which is all I have to go on) seems to mostly be about cleavage. Now, I've been to proms. I've only been out of high school for about 6 years, so it's still fairly fresh in my mind. There were some damn short skirts at some of my formal dances. It seems a little weird that that is not what's being fought over here.

I might not be expressing myself very well, but I guess I'm trying to say that someone can control the length of their skirt. They can't so much do anything about the size of their breasts!

i found this article at nola.com.

http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/2007/04/prom_dress_controversy_has_man.html

i grew up in jefferson parish. when i lived there higgins was a predominantly african american high school. i can guarantee that i saw more cleavage than those dresses in the hallways of the high school i attended in the late 70s. Furthermore Jefferson Parish is right outside of New Orleans, home of SYOT! i can also attest to this being the type of dress available in the metro N.O. area both because i saw the same prom dresses here in Phoenix in the same chain stores, AND becuase N.O. sells identical dresses for carnival. The young women in the white dresses are wearing outfits identical to what white debs wear for their debut in New Orleans. What a load of B.S.

Wow. Proms are EXPENSIVE and a very big deal - what a sexist, probably racist, and maybe even classist, but definitely asshole thing to do to the kids.

Wow. Proms are EXPENSIVE and a very big deal - what a sexist, probably racist, and maybe even classist (the few white girls turned away looked poor), but definitely asshole thing to do to the kids.

I think this says it all:

One prom-goer said he thinks his date was turned away because of how she's built. He called that "discrimination" and said that's "wrong."

As for fixing the dresses...

One of the girls in #2 looks like her dress is slipping down a little. Maybe the young women who could just hiked up their dresses as far as they could? Unfortunately, that wouldn't have been an option open to some of the more well-endowed girls.

As a fellow D-cup, I feel their pain.

For the record, I actually thought a handful of these dresses were pretty gorgeous, too. I would also like to see what was "appropriate," because I really can't imagine what would be if some of these aren't.

I graduated from Higgins in '94. It was 70% black at the time and most of the teachers were black as well. I don't think it was racism, though the breast size and dress size issues may have played a part in this teacher's thought process.

This is what most likely happened (speaking from my own experience as a student there):
1. Some teacher in her later years got a bug up her ass about how the girls dressed for dances. She thought it was inappropriate for the age (size etc) of the (some)girls.
2. Some of the other faculty agreed. Most didn't care one way or the other and so shrugged and said "Ok."
3. The school gave warnings in writing and over the intercom system that revealing too much cleavage/leg would not be allowed at the prom.
4. The girls went and bought MODEST dresses, as you saw in the slide show. Thinking that they were referring to the "push-up" and "plunge" (cracked down to your navel) variety of dresses, the girls and their parents felt assured with their purchases.
5. The teacher who had the anal-insect-intrusion took it upon herself to find offenders anyway and make examples of them...because she's an ass.
6. The school and school board decide to defend the teacher's decision rather than admit wrong doing because then they would be liable (i.e. have to pay money for the dresses, tickets etc). This way they can just point to the school's regular dress code and say nothing was done wrong.

This is not the first time something of this nature has RANDOMLY occurred at Higgins. I can think of 6 incidents of school-rules-gone-the-way-of-the-stupid off the top of my head in fact.

When I was there my dress was more revealing than those pictured and I had sequins that made flames up my chest. Speak of drawing attention to breasts! None of the teachers said a word then. I had seen worse dresses at my prom in 94 than mine as well.

So it's this individual teacher who is probably a complete nut (you can find many eccentrics throughout the New Orleans area- some fun, some not) and they are backing her up rather than admit wrong doing so they don't have to pay. Period.

You know...that's the crappiest reason in the world for screwing up a kid's view of her body, her decisionmaking and her self-esteem.
Education is about giving kids the tools to exist as responsible adults in society. A semiformal dance thrownin affiliation with the school (i.e PROM) would require semiformal dress. The teacher OR the backing administration needs to explain this one very very carefully. It seems either criminally misguided or cruel...and there is no room for either in any responsible school system.

Sorry so posty today.
Thought you'd be interested. Another houston media source (The Houston Chronicle) is currently running a "best dressed" awards slideshow addressing the socialites and model citizens in the area.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/society/4706832.html
Take a look at the "honorees take the stage" imagegs. Compare these to the young ladies who were told their clothing was inappropriate.

Well! I hope those girls learned their lesson. If they're going to live and work in this country, they need to get rid of those boobs. They're offensive. And don't even get me STARTED on breast feeding in public. /heavy snark

This is ridiculous. I'm very self-consious about my body and I myself would wear several of these dresses.

I think the real lesson here is that if you're not willowy then you're obscene. More American fetishizing of food and body size. 'Cause everyone knows that "fat" breasts and bodies mean a lack of self-control and heavy sensuality. Gag.

I realize how dangerous it is to be male and express disagreement on a feminist topic around feminists. Please note that I'm trying to respectfully and calmly explain my point without insulting anyone. I'd like to get that in return.

When I first read this news story, I thought feminists would have the opposite opinion. Aren't women willingly objectifying themselves by taking "getting dressed up" to mean "showing more skin" ? When I get dressed up, I like to look my best; if women don't want to be be sex objects, then their best shouldn't be closer-to-naked-than-usual.

The girls in these pictures don't look so scandalous. But I think that is what your outrage ought to be focused on. It is so normal for women to hurt themselves like this that many of these comments say something like "It can get way worse than this!"

I considered myself feminist-leaning until I read everyone's comments. I don't think a woman should feel forced to wear make-up, to shave, or to expose as much of her body as she can get away with on a regular basis. It sounds like everyone who commented here disagrees; does that make me an anti-feminist?

I think the school did the right thing (assuming there was no discrimination going on). They forced these young women to have some respect for themselves.

Aren't women willingly objectifying themselves by taking "getting dressed up" to mean "showing more skin" ?

Are you sure you read the same story? Because...uh... the problem here was pretty much that women were being told they were immodest and being turned away despite the fact that they weren't "showing more skin." In other words, it had absolutely nothing to do with dressing modestly, and seems to have had everything to do with body shape and breast size.

When I get dressed up, I like to look my best; if women don't want to be be sex objects, then their best shouldn't be closer-to-naked-than-usual.

Women should really be able to dress however they want, the same way that I'm able to dress however I want. This article pretty much shows that it doesn't matter how women dress, they're going to be seen as being sex objects anyway.

But I think that is what your outrage ought to be focused on.

It's much less "dangerous" to post on feminist boards when you don't tell women how they ought to be directing their outrage.
Just an FYI.

I don't think a woman should feel forced to wear make-up, to shave, or to expose as much of her body as she can get away with on a regular basis.

None of which are things that anyone here endorsed, nor do those things have anything to do with why these girls were turned away from the prom.

I think the school did the right thing (assuming there was no discrimination going on). They forced these young women to have some respect for themselves.

And that right there is why people are going to come to the conclusion that you're anti-feminist. It's not up to the school to force "young women to have some respect for themselves."

That assumes that you can't wear a dress and respect yourself. It assumes that respect is something you can force. It assumes that these women didn't already respect themselves. And it assumes that being turned away because some asshat thinks your breasts are too large does anything to encourage respect.

Ok. I was so going to comment, but Roy just said everything I was going to say.

I didn't realize that being a feminist meant that I had to pass self-righteous judgment on whether other women's ideas of how to dress up for an occasion important to them lived up to my exacting standards.

Hmm. I'm graduating in a month (finished my PhD!). I had been planning on shaving my legs and my pits, putting on lipstick, wearing a spaghetti-strapped green and brown silk dress that is rather tightly fitted through the bodice and the waist, and wearing heels. Quick! Someone force me to respect myself before I celebrate my achivements and feel beautiful at the same time!

Of course, I have small breasts and am white, so I'm sure that I'll look demure and respectable no matter what.

UPDATE ON THIS CASE:

I just heard on the local radio that girls that are going to prom this weekend, in Jefferson Parish (where Higgins is), can either MODEL or take pictures of themselves wearing their dresses for their school principal before going to the dances and proms as to avoid getting turned away!!

Jesus H!! I thought I was disgusted and angry before, now the young women have to pass a preliminary inspection before being deemed modest enough for public viewing...

And yes, parents in the first incident are looking into suing the school, teacher and school board btw.

I wish I had time for a longer reply. I typically would wait, but I just have to point this out: the article says nothing of what the other prom-goers wore or how they were built. One person was quoted as saying she thought it was because she was larger than average, but people rationalize all sorts of things when they feel slighted.

I'll give a more in-depth response tomorrow, when perhaps someone can respond without sarcasm or implication (or explication, even) that I am at least slightly stupid for disagreeing with everyone else.

I'll give a more in-depth response tomorrow, when perhaps someone can respond without sarcasm or implication (or explication, even) that I am at least slightly stupid for disagreeing with everyone else.

????

2nd, I have to be honest, I am a little dubious of your proclamations of sincerity when you express this "oh poor me, alone among the angry feminists" attitude in both of the comments you've left here so far. Roymac's response to you was very respectful and I sensed no sarcasm from him or implication that you were stupid. EG's comment was a little more sarcastic, but the sarcasm was, as I take it, directed at the teachers on the assumption that they could be imputed with the motives you suggested. I didn't take her to be suggesting you're stupid at all -- I took her irritation to be directed at these teachers/this teacher.

So, if you want to come in with a chip on your shoulder, that's fine, we can't change you. But I think you'll find conversations are much more productive if you accept that perhaps the stereotype of the "angry man-hating feminist" is overhyped, outdated, and boring.

Yeah, I figured I'd get a response like that. It looks like I'm fighting a losing battle. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that I was afraid of everyone's responses, since that made everyone a little defensive. I still think the first two responses to my original were less than respectful, but if I were to try to prove myself, I would be straying from the point.

So, in answer to your question Roymac, I did read the same story as you did. In the story I read, dozens of young women were turned away because they were dressed immodestly. We don't know what the other prom-goers were dressed like. We can assume everyone was dressed the same and that these girls were forced to leave because they are black or fat, or we can assume that the culture of Marrero, La is such that women don't typically show cleavage, making these dresses inappropriate for people in that city. Everyone assumes things about news stories based on their world view, so I don't fault you for that. But please don't fault me for trying not to assume anything.

This is an honest question: why does this article show that women are going to be seen as sex objects no matter what? I guess the point I was trying to make last time is that I don't see anything misogynistic about this case because the girls were objectifying themselves and "the man" wanted them to stop. To me, it's misogynistic if it works in reverse.

I think those things (shaving, make-up, etc) are related to this article. As EG said not sarcastically at all "Quick! Someone force me to respect myself before I celebrate my achivements and feel beautiful at the same time!" When a woman has to put on make up and wear a tightly-fitted silk dress to feel beautiful, she might have a self-respect problem. It is as if women are being told what to wear, but it's so ingrained in everything that the women themselves are doing the telling. So it must be hard to separate what you want from what you've been told to want since the day you were born. I'm sure this has crossed some of your minds before. What do you think of it?

But you do make one good point, roymac - the girls shouldn't have been forced to do anything. I still don't think the situation is "unfeminist," but I was wrong to think that my ideals should have been forced on them. Everyone is prone to fits of that, so I hope you can forgive me.

And finally, The Law Fairy, my only experiences with people who might label themselves "feminists" was at an Ani Difranco concert 8 years ago. I got several dirty looks, people purposely stepped in my way (yes, they knew I was there), and I even got physically pushed around twice (not during the concert, mind, but neat the bathroom/concession area). I understand that all feminists can't be man-haters, but I promise the stereotype exists for a reason.

FYI: In the Victorian era, women were not supposed to show their shoulders; however, there were no prohibitions on the cut of the dress, so, in the words of Miss Manners, many were "shockingly low."

That said, I'm a huge prude and didn't think that those dresses were something that I would not wear. Of course, I don't have much of a chest, so no issues there.

The article should have listed any dress code as given to the prom-goers, and, if there was no stated dress code, that information. If the prom said, "No strapless dresses," then you can either wear a dress with straps, a cover-up, or not go to the prom.

OTOH, turning women away at the door is complete b.s.

my only experiences with people who might label themselves "feminists" was at an Ani Difranco concert 8 years ago. I got several dirty looks, people purposely stepped in my way (yes, they knew I was there), and I even got physically pushed around twice (not during the concert, mind, but neat the bathroom/concession area). I understand that all feminists can't be man-haters, but I promise the stereotype exists for a reason.

*head desk*

2nd is trolling, folks, as evidenced by the fact that he didn't look at the slideshow before he posted.

As far as the story goes, all I can think of is the "dirty pillows!" scene from Carrie.

Cheers,

TH