From the article at WSJ:
"Still, holding women-only networking events raises some complicated issues. Are these single-sex events just as exclusionary as the traditional spectator sports events and steak-and-cigar dinners have been for men?"

I love it when historically privileged groups complain about 'reverse discrimination'. It's like those white kids at your high school whining about how the black kids can have a Black Student Union but they can't have a White Student Union. Pathetic.

I've never gotten the allure of golf. A day at the spa sounds WAY better, regards of your sex.

Right...I swear, if more women learned how to golf and beat men at the game as well, then not only would their "connections"/business deals suffer, but they'd also have to hear jokes from co-workers about how their male colleagues were "beaten by a woman".

Sorry, just super jaded for some reason...

The problem is, an old girls' club will always lose to an old boys' club in these settings. Female executives in power can help pull other women up the ladder, but there are more male executives with more power pulling more men up the ladder. Female professionals can take female clients and partners out to dinner or out shopping, but there are more male professionals taking more male clients out golfing or to strip clubs.

Events and advocacy for female professionals are very important, but I get the feeling woman-only social networking has the effect of ghettoizing women in the workplace. Male executives will still go golfing and to strip clubs because the women have their own places to conduct business.

The dominant culture is what needs to change to make a real difference.

I agree with the last post. As a male, in the financial industry for 22 years, I think the culture of doing business on the golf course needs to change. I played golf, before my wife and I had kids, and I always hated the business golf outings. I did like golf, just not the business part.

I am constantly amazes at how corporate America sanctions golf as a legitimate business venue. I believe this needs to stop. If we are going to do business then let's do business, not go golfing.

How pathetic must a man's life be that he has to do business on a golf course. Has he no friends he would rather be golfing with? Do men really think that because someone can hit a ball 300 yards they are good at business? I always thought the opposite. If you have enought time to be good at golf, you either are neglecting your job or your family. Am I crazy?

Were I to run a large company I would say, work at work, and play golf on your own time.

Andy

I don't have much interest in business-doing, ladder-climbing, and network-forming, but this sounds like a case of "well, they do it, so why can't we?". Discrimination by gender or sex is always wrong. And while I understand the need - I do, it's hard to compete when you don't fight fire with fire, I can't help but wonder if this only puts us farther from a future without any sex-discrimatory events.

kudos to andy for pointing out that golf has weird (inappropriate) cultural cache in our business sector...that said, women-only networking events can be kind of fun. when i lived in nyc, i went to these women-only wine parties after work from time to time. young career women are often isolated from one another. i mean, when i was working at a feminist non-profit, there was one other chic that was my age. she rocked my world, but imagine how needy we were to connect with other women in our same situation. we hated our executive director, thought most of our co-workers were over-privileged second wavers, and just needed to meet people going through the same struggles that we faced.

My boss regularly holds women-only wine parties and other events for women in the publishing industry. I find they're a great opportunity to meet other young women who are starting out as well as more senior types. There are a lot of events that are just for the old boys. If the guys want to make those things truly fair and open to us, then I'm game with them coming to our wine nights. Until then, we'll keep networking with each other.

If you have enought time to be good at golf, you eit,/iher are neglecting your job or your family. Am I crazy?

Um, yeah. You are. So someone takes the time to be good at a sport, they must be neglecting their family...that's some nice logic there. Hmmm, you're taking time to be posting on the internet...don't you have a family or job to be attending to?

I suppose you also don't care for business lunches or anything of the sort. Really, all business must be conducted within the confines of an office.

As a former attorney who learned to play golf because I once worked with all men, I now have a business where we help produce "women-oriented" events (never "women-only"). I founded the company because while I'm a big proponent of "why can't everyone just network together;" sometimes it's a bit like the old reasoning behind boys' and girls' schools: I saw smart, talented women acting less powerful in male-dominated situations because they were marginalized. So, I figured it's helpful for women to "hone their networking chops" in an environment where they're comfortable. Ironically, I'm much more comfortable with a 9-iron, than I would be at a spa event. But, sometimes I force myself to go to latter because I get to meet a different crowd of people, and isn't that what networking is all about?

OK Bird, you got me. You are right, I was momentarily crazy.

With regard to womnen-only, or women oriented, networking: I feel it is very likely necessary at this point. I just have a problem if it is sponsered by the company and is internal. I don't know how a company could do that and not put employees on edge. As long as it is networking of women of different companies, and I think that is what has been mentioned, I am all for it.

I can also imagin a time when it would outlive it's usefulness and become a problem. For example, if women had achieved parity in the workforce I could understand why some would find it discriminatory, just like I find mens-only clubs of today.

Andy, I agree, if we were welcome at boys' night but we still had private girls' nights, it wouldn't be cool.

My position on the golf thing comes from a woman who waited tables at a very exclusive country club for four years while I did my degree. I can't count the number of mens' nights that I worked where I saw disgusting behaviours and attitudes from the men in attendance (including requests for us female staff to take off our tops, ass grabbing and the like).

Not only were there no women present (except for the staff, and we didn't count because we carried the beer jugs), but club policy did not allow women to be there. But we're talking a place that only let women into the spike bar about 8 years ago when a female member launched a lawsuit over it.

So not only are we not invited, but they're events most women wouldn't want to attend. I've seen what goes on and answered the calls from the wives trying to get their husbands to come home (and had to cover for the men too). No thanks.

I have also been in those situations, but on the guy side. I was always very uncomfortable with the behavior I witnessed. It is not that I am not willing to have a good time but all too often the situation you describe turns into what I call a "d**k measuring contest" and women, and staff in general, are not treated well.

I have also been in regular bars where other women patrons are not treated well, by a group of guys, on a business trip. In this situation, many men leave early they/we are called a "pussy" when we do.

To go back to my point, I do not think corporate America is well served by the boys club mentality. It is not good for women and, all too often, not good for at least half the guys who wish they weren't there, but for professional reasons, can't leave.

I know this is a subject of interest for Ivy, who hasn't yet chimed in. Did we enlighten him enough on previous, unrelated threads, I wonder?