Not to be a total jerk, but isn't it the four year anniversary? Starting the fifth year of the war?

You're right/I'm an ass/ correction made

Hartford? Is that just in there to placate Celina, or was that really one of the major protests?

Doesn't anyone think that since the US went in and fucked up Iraq that perhaps they should stay and make an attempt to fix it before moving on to the next target?

Last time I looked 60-70% of Iraqis wanted US troops to stay because it's now so unstable it's just going to degenerate into civil war the minute they leave

It's amazing the fervour with which many Americans are pushing for withdrawal, because now they've noticed it's costing money and lives and not actually achieving anything - for the US

There was never any justifiable reason for the US to be in Iraq, but it is equally selfish to abandon Iraq because now everyone's pissy at the budget

Sure, Iraq was under a sick dictator. It'll be worse when there are a plethora of people trying to be dictators

i'm very torn on the issue, Fenriswolf. on the one hand (as someone who opposed the war from the moment the idea was floated and never believed for a second that iraq had any weapons), i believe that we do owe it to the iraqis to fix things. on the other hand, they're ALREADY in a civil war and i sure as hell don't trust the idiotic government who got us into this mess to start fixing things now. i think that the civil war is past the point of the U.S. military stopping it. no matter what happens there, it's hanging over the U.S.'s head. leaving won't wash our hands clean, but i'm not really sure what the hell staying is going to do, either.

Doublefantasy: I definitely know where you're coming from. I'm just a little frustrated that what our media covers re: US politics has gone from "yay Iraq!" to "fuck Iraq, bring our boys home!", in one case a presenter saying "it's time for Iraqis to take responsibility-" *vomit*

In an ideal world we'd have a UN with power, that is not optional to join, who would step in. Not likely I guess

I questioned the need for war because I don't think our government actually did everything they could have prior. Once there, we find out the reasons we were fed are most likely bogus. Whoever planned for the war seemed to have only thought about catching Saddam, as now it seems our troops are just there with little to no direction.

I know we all probably worry about a specific someone over there. One of my best friends just got sent over for his third tour. My father will be headed over shortly, and there's a good chance my brother will too. As against the war as I am, my dad gave me good reasons why HE is going. Unlike most of the people I know that were deployed, he actually volunteered to go. He lost his brother in 9-11, and he sees this as a chance to get back at the terrorist. He's not going over to fight, but to actually work on rebuilding water and road ways and whatever terrorists have destroyed. I think he also feels guilt for supporting this war in the beginning, and he doesn't like training the troops who get sent there while he stays behind.

I'm scared as hell for my loved ones, but at the same time, none of them are going over there happy to kill. It makes me sick to see so many people NOW worried about our troops and professing to give a shit about them, when the troops were so expendable when we "supported" the war. It makes me sick that those that disagreed with the war to begin with are now the ones with enough of a conscience to see that we do NOW owe the Iraqis for the mess we've made. When Bush goes to Hell, he has a lot to answer for.

BTW, I know it came out that way, but I know there's people that don't fall into my 2 categories, just this topic makes me angry. I want us to take responsibility for the mess and finish the job, but I also want out people to be safe at home. The stories about crimes against women and homosexuals rile me up. As does any mention of Bush.

Fenris,

I think you're very much on target. This was never a four-year project. This was a ten year project from the beginning.

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