This idea of phasing out "female" is offensive to me. Actually, everything about gender labels offends me. Being that I am not a very attractive woman, I have never considered myself to be very feminine. By comparison, many other females are more like women, ladies, and girls than me. Yet, I am still female, and no one can take that away from me.

The writer clearly hasn't read any undergraduate papers; college students love to use "females" instead of "women." Any paper on any novel, and you get lots of talk about the "females." I don't get it. Are you talking about cattle? Bees? Alligators? Because if you're talking about adult female human beings, the word you're searching for is "women."

I liken it to how research articles are using gender instead of sex even in regards to nonhuman species. Like in the example below.

Species affinity and infracommunity ordination of helminths of Leptodactylus chaquensis (Anura: Leptodactylidae) in two contrasting environments from northeastern Argentina.

CONICET-CECOAL, C.C. 291, 3400-Corrientes, Argentina. monika_hamann@yahoo.com

One hundred seventy-two frogs (Leptodactylus chaquensis) were collected from November 2002 to November 2003, in agricultural (n = 132) and nonagricultural (n = 40) areas. Both sites are near the city of Corrientes, Argentina. The main goals of this study were as follows: (1) to determine the helminth parasite community in agricultural and nonagricultural habitats; (2) to analyze the relationships between helminth parasites and site of infection, frog body size, and gender; (3) to identify and examine covariation and association of helminth communities; and (4) to determine the mean richness and diversity of parasite communities. The helminth compound community of this amphibian species consisted of 24 species: 19 in agricultural habitats and 18 in nonagricultural habitats. The mean richness, mean diversity, and evenness of helminths were significantly different between the habitats (P

Yeah, "female" as a noun just sounds like cop jargon or nature video narration. If the adjective becomes collateral damage in getting rid of the noun, I think we're still better off.

Also, you've got to love Safire...he starts out complaining about having to use Latin in place of Anglo-Saxon and then smoothly transitions into the opposite. Like, what dude.

Well, you know, it's so hard to tell what kind of sex-linked behaviors in frogs are the result of patriarchal froggie culture...

Also, why doesn't he scrutinize whether the same thing is happening with the word "male"? It's so fucking obnoxious how the media always put women under microscopes, like we're some alien fucking species that needs to be "figured out." Not that I don't think women's issues should be written about, of course, but it doesn't always have to be in such a condescending, othered sort of way.

Also, I think we should all write to William Safire and inform his sanctimonious ass of the existence of the word "womanism." The only way I've found so far is this e-mail address:

staff@nytimes.com

You can email the author at safireonlanguage@nytimes.com , I just did :)

We just had a Womanist scholar and theologian speak at a particularly well regarded lectureships at Vanderbilt Divinity School last week--Karen Baker Fletcher. The fact that he's using "womanism" as a slur and never bothered to see that it represents a particularly thoughtful (and men-positive) feminist movement among women of color, is offensive. Doesn't a publication like the New York Times Magazine have a fact checker who could do a quick google search? Seriously, what an ass--why do the ill informed get bylines over and over again (oh, right, he's got a penis and lives in New York).

Huh.

See, using "woman" as a noun is a pet peeve of mine. I generally prefer "female" because it doesn't have the social connotations of "woman." I hate being called a "woman attorney." I'd prefer just "attorney" or if we have to distinguish my gender, "female attorney" -- for one thing, I've never heard someone say "man attorney" but I have heard "male attorney."

I never thought of using "woman" as an adjective as a particularly feminist thing... it always brings to mind the image of some crochety old relic mumbling about "women drivers."

Oh geez... look at my proofreading (lack of) skillz...

I meant using "woman" as an adjective is a pet peeve of mine...

I remember in a class I was in, Women in Literature, the professor asked how many of us referred to themselves as women. I, and a couple other 'non-traditional' students (read: older, mothers) raised our hands- the rest of the room kept their hands down. She asked the students who didn't raise their hands why not, one response stuck with me, a student said she was still a girl- only 22, in college, hadn't been married or had kids or any of those other 'adult' markers of 'womanhood'.

It's interesting, I think. Our comfort levels with being associated with words that mark us.

i honestly don't get the big deal. i don't take offense to being called either a woman or female, though i do think that it sounds better and is easier when female is an adjective and woman is a noun. i don't think that there's any real "movement" behind this shift like there was with gender/sex (though correct me if i'm wrong) and honestly don't even understand what the point of this article was other than to bitch about women and their quirky little word choices.

yeah, it reminds me of my dear old dad, who will sometimes say things like, "lady doctor," or "the lady detective." but with a quick withering glance, he quickly will concede that ladies/women/female humyns too can go to medical school and get that same degree, to be a doctor. not a different sort of doctor, a doctor with no gendered prelude.
oh language. oh dad.

i remember when i was little i used to think woman was some kind of dirty word even though i knew the definition (and i wasnt the only kid that thought that). not sure what that means.

that article was ridiculous...words like female are used so often and in so many ways im really surprised someone thought that was worth writing about.

I tend to think that "woman" as an adjective sounds condescending. I guess, like Law Fairy, I think of muttered gripes about "woman drivers" and have noted the lack of reference to "man" anything. I've heard the phrases "male nurse" or "male flight attendant" but I've yet to hear "man" outside of "man whore"--which is a joke. Using "woman" in place of "female" to me is as irritating as Republican references to the "Democrat" party. Does that make them the "Republic" party?

I second the annoyance over people treating gender as interchangeable with sex. "Sex" refers to physical biology. "Gender" is a social construct. They are not synonyms, dammit!

And as for the "punchline" using womanism...what a tool.
Way to make an ass of yourself, Billy-boy.
And you writing the "On Language" column, too!

"Woman" as an adjective is a little bit annoying to me (sounds so old-timey, like balking at a woman in trousers). Not nearly so much as "girl" is annoying to me, though. Or "baby," when used in place of my name.

I'm going to continue to refer to myself as "female," because I don't think "woman" applies to me very much. I might occasionally wear women's clothes and make my performative gender match my ostensible sex-role, but on the inside, I feel basically gender-neutral. Hell, it took me until I was 19 or so to realise that things like "women's studies" were supposed to apply to me too.

(If you'd asked me then whether I was a "man" or a "woman" I'm pretty sure I would have told you no in either case, but then I would have been bewildered as to what I actually was. "Conscientious objector" works for me now.)

"Female," on the other hand, I have no such difficulties with.

She asked the students who didn't raise their hands why not, one response stuck with me, a student said she was still a girl- only 22, in college, hadn't been married or had kids or any of those other 'adult' markers of 'womanhood'.

Arrgggh! And what man at that age would want to be known as a boy, I wonder, regardless of his marital status or having kids? I'm 26, and I've noticed this too among women my age -- it's sad, because it's just a way for people to keep us forever in an infantile state. We're never considered grown, respectable adults until we're old enough to be dismissed as just "old women."

This also reminds me of a maddening experience I once had with my father. I was about 12, and he asked where my mom was. I was like, "I think she went to a restaurant with a few women." He immediately admonished me, saying, "Anne, don't call them women -- they'd be insulted, because it means they're old. Call them girls."

*throws computer across room*

ARGH i get so mad when fully grown women refer to themselves as "girls." it took me a while to accept myself as a "woman" but have been calling myself such for a couple of years now (i'm 22) and get angry when people call me a "girl" and even angrier when people try to compliment me with the word.

Law Fairy said "I hate being called a "woman attorney." I'd prefer just 'attorney' or if we have to distinguish my gender, 'female attorney'..."

I shy away from the words "male" and "female" because I got sick of seeing it used as in "men and females" or "women and males," respectively, by those antagonistic to women and those antagonistic to men. Usage like that grates on my nerves the same way "Democrat Party" bugs me when 'wingers say it.

Call it a quirk on my part.

Quirk or no I agree with Law Fairy that it's almost never necessary to say "woman attorney" or "female attorney" in conversation. When you really need to distinguish gender it's easy enough to say "she's an attorney."

And yeah, notice the only time someone pulls out an identifier for men it's for things like "male nurse," "male hairdresser," and so on?

Discriminate much?

figleaf

Just more random, fabricated grist for the certain-women-versus-certain-other-women war (insert whatever modifier applies, working versus SAH, moms versus non-moms, etc, etc) the New York Times seems hell-bent on inciting. Does he ever even say where he got the idea that "feminists everywhere" have begun to turn on the word "female"? From some journalists who can't make up their minds about how to phrase it - is that it? And he gets away with snarking that the linguist's point (which is far more intelligent than anything he has to say) is "unexpected"? And the gross, gratuitous inclusion of "My beloved bitch, Geneva"??? I think he just comes off looking like an ass. Are they just trying to gauge whether any women are still reading their paper?

I've got a number of friends and relatives in the military (hotbed of free feminist thought that it is), and I started noticing a couple of years ago that all of the "women" became "females" in conversation. Even beyond derisive talk of certain "females" on the boat who cause X, Y, and Z problems, there's more neutral talk about "females" in bars or "females" waiting at home. Even one of my best girlfriends (women friends?) who is a SWO in the Navy occasionally slips and talks about other "females" she works with, although she does tend more toward "women" or, when they're particularly annoying, "chicks."

My personal gripe with the term "female" is the one Charity describes above - the use of the word as a free-standing noun, rather than an adjective.

Case in point: someone in my family has the irksome habit of collectively refering to the distaff members of our clan this way, as in: "you men just go on ahead and get started, we'll catch up later after we visit the 'little girls' room' - you know how we females are!"

I find it a depersonalizing, "othering" usage that pins femaleness as the overarching definition of the person(s) so labeled.

Correction: Charity and ACG's reference above.

Lest we forget:
"Before joining The Times, Mr. Safire was a senior White House speechwriter for President Nixon. He had previously been a radio and television producer and a U.S. Army correspondent. He began his career as a reporter for The New York Herald Tribune. From 1955 to 1960, Safire was vice president of a public relations firm in New York City, then became president of his own firm. He was responsible for bringing Mr. Nixon and Nikita Khrushchev together in the 1959 Moscow kitchen debate. In 1968, he joined the campaign of Richard Nixon."