This is SO my new excuse

I'll eat to that.

Well, that's good news. However, since my current boyfriend is very anti-babies (as I am for the moment, still being in college and all) I don't think I'll let him in on that. If I do, he'll just hog all the Ben and Jerry's.

BWA-ha-ha! Cool! I've never been so glad to be lactose intolerant and allergic to casein in all my life... Pass the Tofutti, please!

Ah, yes. America needed a new reason to load up on the unhealthy snacks. While the fats in ice cream and yogurt support fertility, the mass amounts of refined sugar supports the development of diabetes. Mmm... Diabetes, with a side of obesity and heart disease!

I forgot to add that I think this is just another excuse for people to eat themselves silly on shit that's not good for them. Kinda like the bullshit that said the antioxidants in wine are good for your heart. Well, those same antioxidants are in grape juice. It was just an excuse to get a buzz (not that there's anything wrong with getting a buzz, but alcohol is terrible for you). The fact that people don't see through such transparancy disgusts me.

Perhaps, but grape juice tastes awful!

In my opinion, of course...

I'm with you, EG. I'm not a huge wine lover, but I enjoy a glass every now and then, but I would rather drink stale beer than grape juice. Ewww, just the thought of it makes me feel sick.

Yes--even when I was a kid I hated grape juice, and people always seemed to be trying to give it to me.

If I had a higher tolerance for alcohol, I'd drink more wine, because I enjoy it...but I don't.

Red Dragoness...my sentiments EXACTLY. It's sad how it's managed to be the most opaque kind of transparency.

OMG, the same thing happened to me when I was little. And now it happens to my daughter.

She only likes cranberry and orange juice, but it seems like relatives are always trying to make her drunk grape juice. They offer, she politely declines and asks for water, then they brink her grape juice and bitch when she won't drink it.

I think Welch's must have some secret sqaud of people who try to force their swill on innocent children. Bastards.

That should be "drink grape juice" not "drunk grape juice". I swear I have not been hittin' the booze tonight.

And it's always the main component in any kind of juice blend! Well-meaning aunts and uncles and nursery school teachers were always giving me Juicey Juice (which is so very gross, in my opinion) and I hated it. And that's the problem with being a kid--nobody takes you seriously when you say you don't like something! They just tell you to drink it anyway! But I tell you, I hated grape juice then, and I hate it now, and I will always hate it. Because, as you note, it is foul swill.

I liked apple juice, and I continue to drink it to this day. Maybe we can get Mott's to send out its own secret squad to beat up the Welch's goons.

Yeah, I'm not goofy from working until 10 on a Friday night, not me!

RedDragoness, the article said one serving a day. That's a scoop a day--you're not going to get diabetes, or even have much problem with calories. And, BTW, there's no evidence that antioxidants are any use whatsoever, they mostly get broken down during digestion. It's other ingredients (tanins, I think) that are good for you in red wine.

Bearcat,

How many people stop at one serving? I rest my case.

I stop at one serving. I usually only have a spoonful, actually. I just want a little taste.

I hate grape juice too! I feel so united with the Feministing community right now! It was even worse that all the children's medicine had grape flavouring. Clearly, it's Welch's conspiracy.

Luckily, my parents never made me drink it. I guess they thought it was swill, too.

If the same holds true for men, I guess that explains the size of my family. ;)

Heh. Maybe Feministing should print up t-shirts:

Real feminists hate grape juice!

You know, as a healthy woman with no family history of diabetes who doesn't drink soda or eat tons of snack food, I really don't think an extra scoop of ice cream or a milk shake every now and then is going to hurt me. Yes, some people will take studies like this as an excuse to overindulge regularly but those tend to be people that would find any excuse to overindulge. Me? Just means when I'm trying to conceive I'll make an extra visit or two to the Cold Stone along with doing all those other silly things that are supposed to help you conceive.

I'm neutral on grape juice, am I not a real feminist?!? (j/k ;)

RedDragoness, is this story an excuse for Americans to indulge in some ice cream or is it an excuse for you to indulge in some uninformed fat hatred? I think people are perfectly capable of making their own decisions about their diet without you looking over their shoulders. Maybe having babies, eating ice cream and drinking wine are more important to me than having a single-digit dress size.

From now on, every month, when I find out (again) that I'm not pregnant, I'm going to eat a pint of ice cream. And if anyone questions it, I'll point them at this study. And then I'll kick them in the shins.

(says the bitter infertile woman)

yellownumber,

it's not about 'fat hatred.' that's ridiculous. the fact of the matter is that being overweight is a huge health risk, and eating mad ice cream will contribute to people being overweight. i think issues of female body image and the like have nothing to do with this.

sure, a person can choose to eat a lot and be large. but it's silly to ask to act like it's not a "bad choice." it is a bad choice, health-wise. that doesn't mean we should make fun of fat people (red dragonness is not doing any of that), but we should still encourage people to eat right and exercise and avoid being overweight.

I didn't get any indication from the article what nutrient could be related to this. Obviously the fat is important, but if it's just the fat, they should get the same effect from other foods rich in saturated fats (or any kind of fats; the general consensus is that unsaturated fats are by and large good for you).

In general there's a disconnect between what health labels on food suggest and what you should actually eat; if anyone's interested, I can develop it into a post and put it on HUHO or something.

i love ice cream. but i don't think it's going to help me conceive.

bschae, you are ignorant of women then. because i'm "large" and i'm "large" not because i overeat! i'm a natural size 12- and have been since i was a 15 yr old jock. so don't give me this cock and bull story that women who are "large" are so because of what they eat. i'm large, and a lot of the full figured women i know are large, because WE HAVE BIGGER BODIES than you skinny bitcheez (i use this jokingly) have. i have heavy muscles from doing sports all year round as a kid, and i happen to have a large frame- inherited from both mother (big hips) and father (big barrel chest, good for swimming/singing BTW).

oh, and by the way? "large" women are MORE fertile, have HIGHER sex drives and ENJOY life more than those who are chronically underweight. also? being underweight is WORSE for your body than being "large" which i tend to inflate as being "considered overweight because you happen to be 5'7" and 170 pounds naturally, thus falling into the overweight catagory of the sexist medical establishment". being underweight chronically puts stress on every single organ and system in your body. the only equitable stress found in overweight people is in EXTREMELY overweight people, who, you know, are about 150 pounds overweight, not 20.

and RedDragoness? some of "us" "large" women DO in fact only have ONE serving of ice cream at a time, and we do in fact only eat it every other day or so. you want to know what makes you overweight? starving yourself. it's called the starvation factor, and more people should google that.

the fact is that you can eat ANYTHING, in moderation, as long as you are getting exercise (i walk, shovel, play tennis, basketball, do yoga and have tickle fights) and you aren't allergic to it. ask any actual nutritionist, you know, someone with a degree in this stuff.

as for grape juice, i love it. only you can drink about 2 cups at a time before the sweetness makes me want to stop. mmmm, sweet sweet grape juice. maybe that's why i like the wine so much? ;)

ask any actual nutritionist, you know, someone with a degree in this stuff.

A good advice for later comments is not to write stuff any serious nutritionist will disagree with and then refer people for nutritionists on the issues their research does fit your preconceptions.

Tickle fights are exercise?! SWEET. I cannot wait for my girlfriend to get home...

I almost hate to rush into this fray, but I must say, I'm disturbed by the pleasure=bad overtones of some of the posts here. Do you really think it's impossible to embrace the "good things" in life (and ice cream is definitely a Good Thing) without killing yourself? What a joyless existence that would be!

Oh, for the love of God--I fail to see how acknowledging that there are positive effects to eating ice cream is going to spark a wave of diabetes or obesity. It's like arguing that getting the HPV shot will spark sluttiness. People don't overeat because they think "Hey, this ice cream is actually great for me! It'll increase my fertility!" They overeat for a number of reasons, including "This ice cream tastes great," "I'm very unhappy and why not just keep on eating," and "I hate myself anyway and I'll never be pretty." Problems with obesity in this country are, I suspect, related more to poverty (which makes it difficult to buy food that's actually good for you) and a society structured around dependency on cars (which means people rarely get incidental exercise) than the fact that every so often researchers have to acknowledge that puritanical divisions of "good" and "bad" food don't work. Sometimes, wine is a good for you. And ice cream. And chocolate.

I think everybody here just needs a fucking hug.

I love everyone on feministing! ::hugs::

bschac = Concern Troll

subgrrl18,

i agree that people have different frames and that being full-figured is a-okay. i'm actually not a 'skinny bitch', i'm a dude. i'm on the larger side myself, and i prefer the full-figured ladies. i certainly wasn't suggesting that being 5'8" and 125 lbs. is the only way to be. but i also think that there's something of a counter-movement suggesting that being way overweight is something people (male or female) shouldn't be concerned about, and I think that's dangerous. maybe most of society is so far to the other side of the spectrum (hating on anyone in a size 10) to worry about that yet, but i still do think we should wary. apologies tho, if I sounded like I was hating on the curvy ladies. definitely was not trying to do that!

donna darko-
what's a concern troll? doesn't sound very good whatever it is...

subgrrl18,

i agree that people have different frames and that being full-figured is a-okay. i'm actually not a 'skinny bitch', i'm a dude. i'm on the larger side myself, and i prefer the full-figured ladies. i certainly wasn't suggesting that being 5'8" and 125 lbs. is the only way to be. but i also think that there's something of a counter-movement suggesting that being way overweight is something people (male or female) shouldn't be concerned about, and I think that's dangerous. maybe most of society is so far to the other side of the spectrum (hating on anyone in a size 10) to worry about that yet, but i still do think we should be wary. apologies tho, if I sounded like I was hating on the curvy ladies. definitely was not trying to do that!

donna darko-
what's a concern troll? doesn't sound very good whatever it is...

Trolls on blogs who harrass you for your own good.

whoops, double post. can someone delete the first one of those, and this?

"I almost hate to rush into this fray, but I must say, I'm disturbed by the pleasure=bad overtones of some of the posts here. Do you really think it's impossible to embrace the "good things" in life (and ice cream is definitely a Good Thing) without killing yourself? What a joyless existence that would be!"

Thank you, lunasol!

p.s. bschac, lunasol = the opposite of a concern troll.

i think that's a little rough, donnadarko. i wasn't abusive or anything, i was just stating my opinion. i wasn't harassing anyone.

i read feministing everyday, i just don't comment very often. gotta avoid contact with those FEMINAZIS Hannity warned me about!!

if you read feministing regularly, and are a male feminist yourself, you would know that feminists are touchy are subjects like housework (see the single women do less housework thread for reference), sexual abuse and sexual objectification (see the black snake moan thread), normative beauty standards issues and weight. seasoned male feminists know this and avoid pushing these buttons.

seasoned male feminists also avoid disparaging strawman words like feminazi. make note of this.

Curvy gals rock (and this is straight from curvy gal), but one thing that does not rock is the food industry. I have had to go off sugar & processed foods for 5 years for health reasons, so I've done a lot of independent study about nutrition. I for one worry that this is an excuse for the food industry to put '!GOOD FOR YOU!' labels on unhealthy food, like 10 years ago with bran muffins made of white flour and corn syrup. I mean, come on? What's healthy about corn syrup? I say, skip the ice cream, pass me the brie ;)

ooh...or wait, don't pass it. I'm not looking for fertility, thanks.

I second donna: hugs to both the curvaceous and the skinny women here, and no hugs for people who use the term "feminazi" in polite conversation. Seriously.

I guess I'm lucky. I've never actually heard someone use the phrase "feminazi" seriously. Strange, considering the conservative town I grew up in.

Yellownumber5,

How dare you make such an ignorant, insolent and insulting assumption. I guess I'd have to hate myself them wouldn't I? What I do hate (and get pissed off by) is the culture of overindulgence and unhealthy diets that America (as well as other parts of the world) participates in. And so few people seem to give a flying fuck, all because they think their tastebuds are more important than their lives.

I'm hardly uninformed on matters like these.

Subgrrl, I know starving yourself causes weight gain. That's because your metabolism slows down, so your body starts storing more food as fat. Eating too many calories and carbohydrates also makes you fat, and is terribly poor for your health.

The fact of the matter is, MOST people don't eat healthy, and often overeat. MOST people don't stop at one scoop of ice cream. MOST people don't keep the sugary junk down to once or twice a week. MOST people live on pre-packaged foods and fast food. So few people actually eat whole grains. I'm not trying to police people's diets. I'd like to, but I can't. What I am doing is offering them information. But I don't really expect anyone to take my word for it. I expect people to stop being lazy and do some hardcore reading. But then, there's so much confliction info out there, and most people only believe what they want to believe.

The problem with the phrase "most people only believe what they want to believe" is that no-one who says it ever includes him- or herself in "most people."

Most people have a variety of reasons for doing what they do and making the choices they make. The fact is that nothing about this information encourages overeating.

I'd rather not get involved in the food-fight here, except to comment that is is perfectly possible to eat one scoop of ice cream, or half a chocolate bar, or whatever combination is the new "but most poeple don't!"...

But I have to say, that your comment Red, "I'm not trying to police people's diets. I'd like to" is extremely creepy. I fluctuate between size 4 and 6 (manufacturing differences, bloating, ect), and I eat fairly well, but... goddamn. Nothing would piss me off more than someone coming over and telling me not to eat what I was, because it was "unhealthy". Besides ruining my self-esteem ("they mean I'm fat and I shouldn't eat?") it would also anger that primal "my food not yours" reaction. So I'd either secretly cry myself to sleep, or attack you.

Please, don't police other poeple's food. Its a choice. If you don't do it, thats fine. Don't start yelling at me not to do it.

Besides, it'd make you extremely unpopular at parties. Who'd want to share a snack with someone who'd mock thier choices?

I agree that no one should be told what to do or how to act, but I can see where Red Dragoness is coming from, though the wording may seem a little extremist to many on this thread.

I have some background in biochemistry and nutrition, and I agree that this article is not encouraging overeating or excessive consumption of ice cream, but like many hyped out medical media articles, it is restating a well known fact. A woman must have between 22-24 BMI index in order to increase her chances of a health conception--that much is a fact. Ice cream contains fat. Many other things contain fat, too. Eating one or two scoops of ice cream in moderation, especially for an underweight woman who is having difficult conceiving, is not a bad idea (among many other options).

I'm a bad feminist because I enjoy grape juice, for the record ;). Regarding nutritional value, carbohydrates provide 7 kcal/gram (fats yield 9 kcal/gram) of metabolic energy but alcohol has absolutely no nutritional advantage in this sense. The antioxidant contents in alcohol are frequently undermined by the fact that the liver has to work an exra amount to metabolize it without gaining energy from it, no matter how small the quantites consumed.

This is not to bash alcohol, I swear, moderate amounts are mostly advantageous for cardiac health because the depressant qualities of fermented ethyl alcohol (alcohol) do work to calm individuals down, thereby lowering blood pressure and easing the strain on their hearts that is frequently caused by overindulgence in HDL cholesterol producing foods (this is where too much ice cream comes into play). A lot of things have anti-oxidants and overconsumption of even the healthiest food products (see: carrots) is hazardous for anyone. Sometimes, you can even have too much oxygen (see: alkalosis).

This is NOT to change anyone's lifestyle, I believe there are definitely a great deal of individuals who practice moderation very responsibly. However, occasionally working in a free clinic has made me cringe when I see articles like this. This is because shortly after this kind of "breaking information" manages to come out, I swear the amount of patients in the clinic manages to expontentially increase. The new influx of patients is mostly made up of irresponsible overindulgers who only selectively read the words "ice cream" or "alcohol" and "good" in the Health Section without getting all the facts.

Not trolling, I swear! I want in on the group hug too....

I'm afraid there's only room for grape-juice-haters in the group hug! Come on, don't you want to be cool?

Joking, of course! I'm always interested in the science behind the health.

(((((feministing group hug)))))

I knew there was SOME good reason I've been vegan for over 10 years! ;)

People already do police the diets of others. As a skinny kid growing up in the near south I had PLENTY of people to tell me how to eat growing up. Friend's parent's putting extra food on my plate, waitresses telling me to finish what I'd ordered and get dessert, etc. And let me tell you, it just makes people feel ashamed of themselves. Maybe you think it's a good idea to make large people feel that way, but I know a lot of overweight people who eat right and get plenty of exercise but still don't lose weight. I'm not making judgement on strangers. I'm not trying to incite anything, but I just think attitudes like that are more damaging then helpful, no matter what the context.

I'll take hugs! Yay hugs! And yay for high-fat dairy products. Cheese, ice cream, whole milk, I'll take it all.

This reminds me of something my mother said.

She said that it was normailty that was most healthy. If a person drinks 2 coffees a day, they should continue to drink 2 coffees a day.

I think as a nurse she got bombarded with This Is Healthy and This Is Not too much.

And I'll take a hug, too. Plus I like grape juice. And tuna fish. And grilled cheese sandwiches. And my step-grandmother's chocolate covered cherries-- homemade. And spaghetti. My mom makes the best spaghetti. There are the anti grape juice feminists, how about pro-spaghetti feminists? Is there anyone who doesn't like spaghetti? We should use that to unite the world!**

*goes off thinking about all the good food I like*

And I'm 5'7" and 127 lbs. By definition I shouldn't have curves, right? I think I dipped into the Thin Mints too much. I was sick and still gained five pounds! Not that I'm complaining or anything. I like my body. A nice sized ass means I can sit practically anywhere. My friend is under 100 lbs., very short, yet she thinks she's fat. I just don't get it.

**I'm not high. Honest.

you don't honestly think i'm using the term "feminazi" seriously do you?

or is your point that you can't even use it facetiously? cause i think that's ridiculous.

and avoiding germane issues because people are touchy about them is not something I do.

I'm also in the camp of people a bit concerned about how a desire to undo the drive for unhealthy thinness has led to an acceptance of unhealthy obesity, but carrying that to an objection to ice cream on the grounds that you can't stop after one scoop...

This is madness.

Both extremes generally come, as extremes are wont to do, from lack of moderation, whether from lack of willpower or chemical imbalance or generally unhealthy lifestyle (which itself can be spawned from anything from a character flaw to economic circumstance). That bit is complex; there's not much point trying to dive into it here.

The point is that by claiming that moderation is essentially impossible, you doom yourself to a conclusion that what happens to your body in life is essentially uncontrollable.

You don't want to go there. That's about as unhealthy as you can get. In moderation, neither eating ice cream nor avoiding ice cream is unhealthy. A study noting the benefit of one or two scoops, and explicity warning people not to use this as a fertility treatment, is not prelude to a health disaster, Antahkarana's experiences notwithstanding. Respectfully, I submit that a free clinic is not the best way to select a portion of the population with average education and discipline. (If someone can point me to a study noticing nontrivial national weight gain trends following announcements like these, I will be shocked, but will withdraw the statement.)

(I'd offer EG a treat for having said this more simply and earlier, but all I have is yoghurt.)

Oh, for personal reference, I no longer purchase ice cream at all (I stick to yoghurt nowadays, which the cat also loves), though I don't refuse it when visiting my parents, am slightly overweight, though not so much so that I'm in any serious health risk, and am also in the 'hates grape juice' camp, and have been since childhood. The flavor I can sort of deal with, but I can't stand the dry aftertaste, especially the way it makes my teeth feel.

bschac:

I'm not a great personal fan of calling people trolls at the toss of a hat, but I'm going to offer you some unsolicited advice: if you are new poster to a feminist site, and choose to use the word 'feminazi' in any context whatsoever while expecting to have your other statements given serious consideration, you are showing remarkably poor judgement. I suggest apologizing and sticking to fleshing out whatever logical connections you are trying to make. (Incidentally, I had no objection to anything you'd said up until that point, other than perhaps nitpicking that it's better to use "morbidly obese" as opposed to "overweight" if you are talking about serious health risks, to avoid the kind of confusion that you got from subgrrl8, especially given that BMI is fairly useless in distinguishing between the fit and unfit all the way up to its "mildly obese" category).

Alon:

The relevant components are likely to be calcium, Vitamin D, or phosphorus... or possibly estrogen.

"I'm also in the camp of people a bit concerned about how a desire to undo the drive for unhealthy thinness has led to an acceptance of unhealthy obesity"

This is not a personal attack but a concern about men who are concern trolling about women's weight. I'm in the camp of feminists who think men should Shut The Fuck Up on the subject of feminists' and women's eating habits. It's like men believing women didn't have abortions before 1971 but if women have too many reproductive choices we're going to go crazy having abortions. There's too much concern among men here about a touchy subject among feminists, eating disorders, which most women have in some form or another. Do you really think we can't moderate ourselves and that we're going to go from anorexia and bulimia to obesity?

i agree, there already is a whole culture out there policing my diet. i get comments from my mother, my doctor, random strangers on the street. they ALL assume that i just need to "eat less" and i'll suddenly be a size 6. but honeys, that ain't gonna happen. i'm a 12 (well, a 16 right now due to my hypothyroidism and winter), i always was a 12, i'll always be a 12. just like i'll always have small boobs and a big butt. this is ME. this is how i was built. this is how it is kids.

just like, for certain friends of mine, they are tiny and will always be tiny and were always tiny. i don't look down on them because they are thin, and i certainly don't feel like i can police their diets.

and i'm just sick and fucking tired of everyone/thing telling me i'm fat! i'm NOT. i'm just not a size 0. i'm not a hanger. i'm a full figured woman in every sense of the word.

i've been told by my doctors that the best way to eat is to eat in moderation. meats in moderation, fat in moderation. the most important part of our diets is seriously exercise. i don't know about the rest of y'all, but i work in front of a computer. 40 hrs a week. i also work in a call center, so i'm frickin' exhausted when i'm done with work. i also work 3rd shift, so it's not like there's a lot of time in the day for me to get exercise. i do as much as i can, considering also that we just got 4 feet of snow in the past week. there are limits, but i have to say that exercise is the key.

Zed, thanks on the back up. being MORBIDLY OBESE is what's the most risky. the truth is that women are supposed to carry something like 20% body fat in order for everything to work properly. wonder why most ballet dancers don't have periods? uh, because they don't have enough fat on their bodies. (one fact i learned in my human evolution class, thank you anthropology!) this also causes premature aging- especially where bone density is concerned. it is way way healthier for a woman to be slightly overweight (not morbidly obese), then it is for her to be underweight.

i also think that the corn industry has too much sway in this country, and that agbiz is virtually making us overfeed ourselves. how many of you grew up poor, like i did? we ate carbs because that's what we could afford, or what we got from the food shelter. and when we didn't have room for a garden, fresh vegetables were mainly whatever was on sale and what was frozen. i ate a lot of peas in my childhood... once we actually lived in our own house, my mom had the room for a garden, and we ate better during growing season. the fact is that many of our vegetables have been GMO'd into useless water pouches, and the fertilizers/pesticides leech nutrients from the soil. when i was in italy for 3 weeks, i had never tasted produced that was so good! i never liked tomatoes until then, when i got ruby red huge juicy ones for cheaper than back at home. they tasted like sun and real soil. they weren't flavorless like the tomatoes we get here.

ice cream is not our problem. agribiz is! GMO's are! there being corn syrup in practically everything is a huge problem.

*hugs the group* feminists as the best huggers. :)

and yes! tickle fights are totally exercise! laughter is great for toning your abdomen. i laugh as much as possible.

"I'm also in the camp of people a bit concerned about how a desire to undo the drive for unhealthy thinness has led to an acceptance of unhealthy obesity"

"People" on feminist blogs concern trolling about women's eating habits are mostly men.

Men should be extremely careful what they say on feminist blogs about

-housework
-sexual abuse
-sexual objectification
-normative beauty standards
-rape
-eating disorders and habits

clearly i've offended some people. i offer my sincere apologies if anything i said has hurt anyone.

i was using the term 'feminazi' in a joking way, and i thought that was pretty clear. really, i said that to try and connect back with you guys cause it seemed like you thought i was trying to be a jerk. clearly it wasn't the right moment for such a joke...my bust.

anyways, my point about bad diets was NOT specifically about the eating habits of women, but about eating habits in general. it happens to guys too! i'm a dude who has to exercise extra hard and make sure to eat extra healthy to maintain a fit body. it's tough, and i live that shit every day. the last thing i was trying to do was imply that women have some sort of obligation to stay in shape while men don't.

anyways, clearly i have said some shit that pissed people off. i'm sorry that it did, and i hope that when (and if) i comment on this blog in the future, i'll be able to convey what i assume will be an unoffensive point in a better way.

The problem is with the knee-jerk reaction to any post about food. As soon as anyone posts something about food, or why it's shitty to fat-shame people, someone has to respond with "But, what about the health?! It's unhealthy to be fat! Oh my god, think about your heart!"

I'd be willing to bet just about anything that most of us have less than healthy diets. Some people are heavier than other people. If I'm at an unhealthy weight, a faceless person on the internet calling me fat and telling me to watch my diet isn't going to change me.

It's kind of a jerky thing to bring up the whole health rant every time. Saying "there are potential health problems associated with over-eating" isn't exactly news.

Also, it's offensive because it's pretty specifically aimed at the weight issue. When someone posts about cars, for example, nobody flies off the handle talking about how dangerous it is to drive. Nobody feels the need to point out the many health risks associated from working long hours at an office job. Or the potential risks from having children.

Fine, yes. We know. There are myriad health problems associated with being really, really over-weight. I think everyone knows that. What, exactly, counts as "really, really over-weight" is pretty questionable, though. Just because someone is bigger than your average runway model doesn't mean that she's at an unhealthy weight. And weight is only part of it- a person can carry weight and still be very, very healthy.

In short: Stop moralizing about other people's weights when you know nothing else about their health. It's rude, and un-necessary, and you're not sharing anything that most of us don't already know.

donna:

Although I can see why you might be upset, my concern is gender-neutral. I am as concerned about morbid obesity in males as I am in females. I actually extend that personal concern to mild obesity in non-athletes, simply because all of the cases I'm aware of where someone with a BMI of 30+ has been healthy has been in athletes (primarily women long-distance runners and male lifters, from personal experience, though I'm sure there are others). Although there's some dispute over the specifics, a BMI of 30+ can be correlated with increased health problems, and 40+ with increased mortality. I tend to discuss only morbid obesity in public because it's the only cutoff point where you can be reasonably sure that something actually is wrong, on the basis of that number alone.

By ANRED's own numbers, about 5% of women (and 0.5% of men) have anorexia or bulemia. By the CDC's numbers, about 30% of the population is at least mildly obese. About 5% is morbidly obese.

Having a Y chromosome doesn't mean I can't discuss health risks rationally, nor that it is improper for me to suggest that it's worth thinking about the message tradeoffs involved, given that trading underweight or anorexic cases for obese or morbidly obese cases is a net health loss, not a net health gain, even for women, where the incidence of anorexia and bulimia is ten times higher than it is for men.

This isn't a "what it's like to be a woman" issue, where a man's view is likely to be distorted or completely irrelevant; it's a health policy issue, which can be (and should be) looked at from a scientific viewpoint. We can reasonably argue over what messages carry what impact on which population, and I may even defer to a female viewpoint on that, but respectfully, I submit to you that it is unreasonable to demand silence on the question of whether it needs to be thought about at all.

Please note that the point of my earlier comment was rather the opposite of telling people what they may or may not eat. Even bschach's comment came only after one commenter accused another of "fat-hating", and that this entire line of conversation originated in writings by "RedDragoness", ostensibly a woman. Further concern on that line has been expressed by Antahkarana, also ostensibly a woman. Responding politely to counter remarkable hostility to a woman's comments does not make one a troll. Please consider whether you might be overreacting.

Subgrrl8:

If I have annoyed you by going back and being waffly on the 30-40 BMI range in this comment, perhaps I can make it up by agreeing that tickle fights can certainly be exercise — but in my case, only because I run away when I'm being tickled, and being chased about the house certainly counts. :P

roymacIII:

I can assure you, around here, drivers on cellphones and childbirth dangers are definitely not taboo topics of conversation.

In all seriousness, however, I'd like to dispute a couple of your main points: first, the cutoff point that almost everyone can agree on is BMI 40+. There may be people of that size who are actually healthy, but they are so rare as to be statistically insignificant. Second, nobody has been calling anyone else fat -- all concern about weight so far has been in one of two categories, either that studies of the nature under discussion will encourage people to binge eat unhealthy food, or that the cultural meme of "please stop worrying about losing weight" meant to counteract potentially fatal eating disorders may be having the side effect of telling people who are potentially fatally overweight that it's okay as well.

I note that we're drifting pretty far afield of a discussion of a study on ice cream, however. If we're going to abandon the topic, I'd personally be happier if it got derailed by the discussions on tickling than on the hostility.

The relevant components are likely to be calcium, Vitamin D, or phosphorus... or possibly estrogen.

But the study talks about the difference between high-fat and low-fat ice cream...

"People" on feminist blogs concern trolling about women's eating habits are mostly men.

For what it's worth, obesity tends to hit people of both genders. I have seen data from the US, Canada, and Germany showing that men's average BMI is marginally higher than women's; however, women tend to have a slightly higher standard deviation.

I wonder if it might be a particular EFA or protein. God, if it is, you know pharmaceutical companies are going to patent it and sell it at outrageous prices to women desperate to get pregnant.

bschac,

I (and I imagine many of the other female posters) have heard "feminazi" in a nasty, negative way so many times that I just don't like hearing the word, ever. I don't see why I should have to hear it from my allies/friends. Perhaps in your personal life you associate with women who know you well enough to not take offence, but I personally would really appreciate it if you didn't use it on here again. (I can't stop you, obviously. It's just a request.)

I feel the same way about the word cunt, but I know there are people who disagree about that one.

"I wonder if it might be a particular EFA or protein."
--I just had a terrifying thought. Is there a chance it's the hormones they're pumping into cattle to make *them* more fertile?

shudder

In other news, I think the BMI/pound/dress size issue ought to be shifted to health and quality of life. Case in point: I am 10 pounds over my recommended weight range, but I wear a size 4 or 6 and I'm healthy as a horse. (And damned tired of doctors telling me to drop those pounds.) My chronically dieting mother weighs 25 pounds LESS than I do and is prediabetic with osteoporosis and hypothyroidism after a lifetime 'diet' of lowfat ice cream and microwave popcorn. We should be worried about the quality of what we put in our bodies, not the numbers. Plus, I am with subgrrl8 on this...blame the food industry, pushing out what's cheap instead of what's real and calling it healthy. Notice how we've been feeding bees corn syrup, sucrose, and pesticides (staples of the American *human* diet) and they've just up and disappeared?
See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/27/business/27bees.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

"Antahkarana's experiences notwithstanding. Respectfully, I submit that a free clinic is not the best way to select a portion of the population with average education and discipline."

Obviously, Zed. This is what makes it an anecdote, a personal narrative that comes out of even more personal experiences that frequently put me face to face with the extremists of the medical world. And um...though "ostensibly" a woman...I realize both genders/sexes have bodies and therefore both genders/sexes are vulnerable to the primary topic of this thread: I could have sworn it was ice cream, but lo, now it's morbid obesity.

You don't sound as if you're attacking anyone, for the record, but I believe I have as valid an experience as anyone else so I'm slightly confused as to what you meant by "Please note that the point of my earlier comment was rather the opposite of telling people what they may or may not eat. Even bschach's comment came only after one commenter accused another of "fat-hating", and that this entire line of conversation originated in writings by "RedDragoness", ostensibly a woman. Further concern on that line has been expressed by Antahkarana, also ostensibly a woman."

I don't condone trolling and I certainly wasn't hoping to propagate something everyone perceived as just that.

Zed:
Even if "almost everyone" can agree that the cutoff is a BMI of 40+ I'd have to guess that the vast majority of the people who come on to "show concern" have no idea what anyone else's BMI is. Nor does it explain why every time a food topic comes up, or every time someone says "hey it's not okay to make fun of overweight people" someone comes back with "but what about the health?!"

I find it really obnoxious to have people come on and show "concern" in either of the areas you cited. I think that both of those positions are, to a large extent, pretty insulting. I suppose it's possible that someone out there is going to look at the ice-cream study and take it as an excuse to eat a half gallon of ice cream every day, but I'd have to guess that the number of people reacting like that will be, as you put it, "statistically insignificant."
And I think that the pressure to be "thin and attractive" is very much alive and well.

None of which changes my point: I don't see how it's helpful to shift every conversation about food into a conversation about "oh my goodness, the fat!" It's preachy, and rude, and, really, telling people "but being fat can hurt your health!" doesn't add anything remotely new to the conversation.

Maybe I'm just being a bit touchy on the subject by how often it's come up lately, or something.

Alon:

All of those are fat-soluble, as I understand it, meaning that they will occur naturally in greater quantities in higher-fat products than lower-fat ones.

I'm not entirely up on the biology involved, however.

Antahkarana:

Those comments were in response to Donna's claim that everyone showing concern was male. I was pointing out that the first two posters showing concern over the potential for this study to be abused into an excuse for unhealthy eating were apparently women (and, alas, lacking anything more to go on than writing clues and a screen name, I can only vouch for "apparently" or "ostensibly" women -- no offense is intended by the description).

Before bschac made his one-word misstep (which, I note, came after a certain amount of provocation), he wasn't saying anything remotely trollish, or for that matter, much out of line with what RedDragoness had posted, and you agreed with.

It wasn't an attempt to accuse you of trolling.

Vitamins A, D, E, and K are fat-soluble. It is not that they will necessarily occur in higher-fat products, but the body cannot absorb them without fat (as I understand it).

I'll second the hormone idea - that all the stuff they put into cows gets passed onto us. Anyone compare organic ice cream with non-organic?

If feminism really is about equality and developing a society that is gender-neutral, then we need men on the bandwagon. Attacking them or their ideas, because they are men, is just as b.s. as us being told that we're irrational, hysterical, uterine-driven women and therefore cannot develop a cognisant thought.

roymac, you're on the right track but it's a women and feminist issue. on feminist blogs which are but a millionth of the discussions that go in the world, men should not bring up touchy subjects like rape, houswork, eating disorders unless they are very sensitive and knowledgable about feminist or women's perspective on them. Better yet, don't say anything at all and just lurk and read. it's very sexist to tell women what to think about housework, rape, eating disorders and habits, sexual abuse, etc.

zed, maybe you only read feministing but eating disorders and habits comes up on other feminist blogs too and 90% of the concern trolling is men. because women know eating disorders and habits are a very touchy subject for women and therefore refrain from concern trolling. in other words, men concern trolling about women's eating habits is sexist.

you can talk about it elsewhere but when you're on a feminist blog, you should be cognizant that you're audience is feminist. are we in kindergarten here or what?

if you don't understand what i said, you're trolling (i.e. being an asshole) on a feminist blog.

"the article said one serving a day. That's a scoop a day--you're not going to get diabetes, or even have much problem with calories"

I disagree. The cholesterol in scoop of ice cream a day will eventually kill you give or take a few decades. I could never eat a scoop of ice cream every day. Maybe once a week. I'm a size 8 but work out five days a week so I'll be a size 6 soon.

oenophile, people should criticize men or women who are sexist, anti-feminist or racist for that matter. you remind me of anti-feminist, caitlin flanagan. are you sure you're not caitlin flanagan?

donna darko,

you're acting like a high school bully. all you're doing is calling people names. you aren't engaging people on the basis of argument. we're all allies here. there's no need for the kind of pettiness and close-mindedness that you are continually displaying in this debate.

my point, and the point of a lot of other people, is that while we should be sure to criticize people who try to force unrealistic body images on women and men, we must at the same time be sure not to veer too far in the other direction by saying there's nothing wrong with an unhealthy weight. that is my only point, and the fact that I'm a guy doesn't disqualify me from making it.

None of which changes my point: I don't see how it's helpful to shift every conversation about food into a conversation about "oh my goodness, the fat!" It's preachy, and rude, and, really, telling people "but being fat can hurt your health!" doesn't add anything remotely new to the conversation.

Granted, but conversely, when there's a conversation about health and food, starting to go on about fat acceptance is just as inappropriate.

howsabout this:

folks posting on feminist blogs should be extremely careful what they say on feminist blogs about

-housework
-sexual abuse
-sexual objectification
-normative beauty standards
-rape
-eating disorders and habits

regardless of their genitalia, username or dress size.

i hate grape juice, would love a group hug, and am overall not that ticklish.

discussion is key. respect and even kindness never hurt anybody. that i know of, anyhow. but i don't doubt somebody could cite a study...

Donna, I'd like you not to speak for everyone on here please. I personally feel very offended at your using sex as an argument against someone - there are certainly some topics where men had better bloody well tread carefully, but I don't think over-eating is one, since it definitely affects men as much as women, beauty standards aside (and I don't believe bschac ever touched on that)

bschac: The use of the word "feminazi" made me wince, as you really were setting yourself up for failure there. Also, I believe it was inappropriate in context, even though it was obvious you were joking.

If you're wondering, I'm female, and I hate that that matters. I hate telling people my sex over the internet, whether it goes in my favour or against. Feel free to believe me or not

Fenris-

point taken. i disagree, tho. i think people have to be able to laugh at ridiculous phrases like "Feminazi." Colbert makes fun of those kinds of constructions ("Factinista", "Femistapo" etc.), because they're so absurd on face. If I used a phrase like "Defeatocrat", wouldn't that clearly be an unoffensive joke? I guess maybe there's a difference I'm not seeing.

But hey, if people don't like it I won't say it. and i appreciate that you can talk to me like an adult instead of just calling me names.

Donna,

As an engineer/soon-to-be lawyer who never wants kids, I'm about as anti-Caitlin Flanagan as you can get. While I do think that people shouldn't raise kids unless they want them, I'm less concerned about working in or outside the house than I am about whether the parents love their kids and make good tiem for them. As Mrs. Flanagan proves, kids raised by stay-at-home moms can be awfully self-centered (after all, someone's world revolves around them!).

You see a gender-neutral comment by a man about food and see sexism. As Fenris points out so well, gender should not matter when evaluating the fruits of a person's mind. Different standards for men and women sounds a lot like a matriarchy, where, as someone said so well, nothing has changed save the gender of the oppressors.

It's not Bschac's fault that every single one of you missed the memo that the #1 killer of women (usually, alternating with all forms of cancer, combined) is a heart attack. No one here is responsible for the fact that "heart attack symptoms" are men's symptoms, while women have a different set of symptoms that go unrecognised by them and untreated by doctors.

PS. I was accused on my blog earlier today of man-hating. Now I've been accused of being anti-feminist (how that can happen, I don't know, unless "feminism" is akin to a middle-school clique where the popular girls decide who can join).

I believe in the political, economic, and social equality of women. I don't think that there's different rules for us - or for men. If that makes me anti-feminist, then check your definitions.

The same thing happened at Pandagon recently and the conclusion was that men who talk about eating habits on feminist blogs are not concerned about women's health but only that women will get fat and they'll have no one to have sex with. That's what men are thinking on feminist blogs while they claim they are only concerned about health.

oenophile, you mostly say anti-feminist, conservative things so you seem like an anti-feminist. women in the US mostly get heart attacks from stress not overeating.

ok so i called for peace and harmony a couple posts back but
"That's what men are thinking on feminist blogs while they claim they are only concerned about health."
?
i see what you said about the conclusion reached on pandagon but i am unclear as to how you reached the certainty about the thoughts of all men on feminist blogs claiming health concerns.
even with those specifics, that's an awfully broad generalization.
i'm not sure how that helps anybody, well, with anything.

Can you cite that, Donna? How does one filter out stress v. coronary disease? I've heard that women get heart attacks without the traditional artery-clogging issues that you see with men, but the research that I read attributed it to different patterns of deposits in the arteries. Furthermore, women's hearts beat more frequently than men's and are significantly smaller, as are their arteries.

What have I said that's anti-feminist? Unless you think that women should have MORE rights than men, nothing I've said is anti-femninist. Everything that I've said would be acceptable to Betty Friedan and Simone de Beauvoir.

Pandagon... oh, Pandagon. Cracks me up how Miss Marcotte thinks that she's a mind-reader. Heaven forbid if a man care about women's well-being... no, it's always the patriarchy. Or sex. (Eye roll.)

it's the same thing happening here. men claim they're concerned about women's eating habits and health when they're really thinking something else. i'm not trying to cause problems. i'm just criticizing sexism as usual.

me again, hi.

criticizing sexism? cool.

sexism = behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex. (mirriam webster online dictionary)

"men claim they're concerned about women's eating habits and health when they're really thinking something else." = a sexist statement.

i mean, right?

stella and oenophile have put it pretty well, but i might as well chime in too...

donna, how could you possibly know what I was thinking? particularly considering that I was at no point talking about women specifically, but rather about the collective weight problem of the United States, your conclusions are nonsensical.

can you point me to one logical argument you've made on this thread today? cause all i've seen is ad hominem attacks and baseless assertions.

this is bs' original statement. i've seen this happen on feminist blogs. it's a trope. it's possible bs did not intend to concern troll about women's eating habits and weight and feign concern for women's health (this is a feminist blog so he's talking to and about women) but it's a recurring pattern by men on feminist blogs that usually gets called out but no one is willing to fight this one.

"yellownumber,

it's not about 'fat hatred.' that's ridiculous. the fact of the matter is that being overweight is a huge health risk, and eating mad ice cream will contribute to people being overweight. i think issues of female body image and the like have nothing to do with this.

sure, a person can choose to eat a lot and be large. but it's silly to ask to act like it's not a "bad choice." it is a bad choice, health-wise. that doesn't mean we should make fun of fat people (red dragonness is not doing any of that), but we should still encourage people to eat right and exercise and avoid being overweight."

"yellownumber,

it's not about 'fat hatred.' that's ridiculous. the fact of the matter is that being overweight is a huge health risk, and eating mad ice cream will contribute to people being overweight. i think issues of female body image and the like have nothing to do with this."

1) My initial reaction was also that it must be the hormones in the milk - not that I have any way of knowing this. Of course I'm a vegan wary of all animal products.

2) Must we always mention what size each of us are when there is a discussion of weight/size ? Sometimes people share this to illustrate their personal experience, but sometimes it's just thrown in there as if it proves something wonderful about them. Like it's framed as "This is my opinion oh and I'm a size ___" when that little tidbit does nothing to support the opinion. I don't know. Anyone else notice this? It bothers me. Or maybe I'm just projecting my own mental craziness onto others.

if you ask any feminist if she thinks the following statements by bs are appropriate on a feminist blog, she'd probably say no, hence my point on this thread:

"we should still encourage people to eat right and exercise and avoid being overweight."

"being overweight is a huge health risk and eating mad ice cream will contribute to people being overweight."

"a person can choose to eat a lot and be large. it is a bad choice, health-wise."

dd - can you do a quick overview of how you define feminism ?
i'm not sure i'm relating to your reactions here.

and to be fair, the statements you're referencing are comments on the blog, not statements of the blog itself.

i don't get how those quotes make your point, donna. in fact, i would stand by each and every one of them.

i guess if you really want to, you can replace 'overweight' with 'being at an unhealthy weight' (if 'overweight' is inextricably connected to the poorly-conceived BMI measurements). but let me just say again, my statements were not towards women specifically! i don't know how many more times i can say this. and these quotes make it even more clear!!!! i said "people" and "person", not "women" and "woman" and i did it for a reason.

Donna, Lindsay made the second statement in the precise way you phraesd it on her blog, minus the specific emphasis on ice cream; she also said something close to your first statement.

Until I see a concern troll bothering people whose handwashing habits may be lax therefore making them prone to spreading influenza, I don't really want to hear the moralizing about people's weight, eating and exercise habits. Health problems are not a moral failing.

stella, feminism is anything good for women. a feminist is someone who doesn't hate women for starters and that's how i usually spot trolls on feminist blogs. oenophile is bordering on troll because of her overall hateful statements towards women. bs, this is not a personal attack. i'm looking only at people's statements on this thread. you probably aren't trolling just insensitive about using loaded words like feminazi and talking about overweight on a feminist blog even though body issues are a feminist issue. alon, lindsay's blog is not a feminist blog like feministe, pandagon, feministing, etc. etc. etc. where the focus of almost every post is feminist issues.

i'm aware statements are made by commenters but if you read feministe, pandadon, feministing, etc. etc. etc. commenters like on any blog are in that bloggers house and adhere to the principles of the blog. if you're a commenter on a progressive blog, you don't make wingnut, conservative statements that irritate everyone. you are sensitive to the ethos of the place. likewise, commenters of feminist blogs are sensitive towards feminist issues and don't make insensitive statements that irritate feminists.

Majikthise is not a single-issue feminist blog, but neither is Echidne. Lindsay posts about feminism less than Echidne does nowadays, but she used to post at roughly the same level. And even then she regarded obesity as a public health issue.

Oh, yeah, my hateful statements towards women. (Eye roll.) Babe, I lack self-hatred, so ditch the moralising 'tude.

I guess that StellaElizabeth & I missed the part where you're the popular girl in the 8th grade who gets to decide who gets to sit at her lunch table. That's really what you are doing.

BS's statements were NOT directed at women's weight. They were gender-neutral. If you see a gender-neutral statement as an attack, then you need more help than any of us can give you. It has NOTHING to do with this being a feminist blog and everything to do with you and your insistance on seeing everything as a personal slight.

likewise, commenters of feminist blogs are sensitive towards feminist issues and don't make insensitive statements that irritate feminists.

Well, I'm certainly quite a feminist, so if you're irritating me, do you have to shove it? Or, Heaven forbid, is there room in feminism for the various ways in which we approach facets of life - as one poster said, feminism is a lens through which we view the world?

If you truly believe your definition of feminism, then you ought to apologise for calling me anything but a feminist.

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

Even by that definition, BS's statments are not at all anti-feminist. After all, he's considering women to be, omigod, people.

You're hateful towards women here for starters. I don't think I'm not alone thinking this. bschac is fine.

Well, Donna, shall I use you as my role model for how one should treat women? Honey, you don't want to go there.

Then there's that bimbo Amanda Marcotte, who still insists that I'm a man because real women think exactly like she does - regardless of the (fairly overwhelming) proof that I've provided as to my gender.

Again, glad that you're the arbiter of who gets to sit at the lunch table. (Eye roll.)

OMG, 99 comments?? Holy crap

"Fenris-

point taken. i disagree, tho. i think people have to be able to laugh at ridiculous phrases like "Feminazi." Colbert makes fun of those kinds of constructions ("Factinista", "Femistapo" etc.), because they're so absurd on face. If I used a phrase like "Defeatocrat", wouldn't that clearly be an unoffensive joke? I guess maybe there's a difference I'm not seeing."

I guess what I saw was a discussion teetering on the edge of becoming antagonistic and the use of the word feminazi was just a baaaaad choice

Part of it of course is that intent is really not clear when you're having a discussion in text.

This form of communication has the advantage of encouraging honesty, but the disadvantage of being incredibly easy to misunderstand someone. It's not too bad on here, but on a site with hugely varying literacy levels it can get a bit painful

"But hey, if people don't like it I won't say it."

All good :D

i believe that every one has gone through health class in school, yes? where we all learned about how to eat healthy? and we all had at least one gym class, yes? where we all learned about how much exercise we all need to stay healthy, yes?

then those types of comments, IMO, are out of bounds when discussing a specific point, as was the case in this point.

as for "why does everyone bring up their size, guys?": well, i get fucking sick and tired of people telling me i'm morally bad just because i happen to be bigger than them. however you define that, it is defined in our culture by a size. i admit it is more expedient to state my size rather than my dimensions. i had to point this out because i felt here was another thread that was going to be high jacked by people who have the time to be int he gym 6 hrs a week hating on all of us who are larger for being fatty-boom-batties who are going to die by heart attack.

you can even be large, and not get 6 hrs of exercise a week, and still be healthy, ok? the only thing i've got wrong in my life is my hypothyroidism, which happens to run in my family- but heart disease doesn't, and i've always had an extremely healthy heart regardless of my exercise level. does that mean i'm giving myself a pass on not being more healthy? no, but it does seem to be a much more inclusive message than "eating ice cream will make you die!"

yes, please refrain from using "feminazi". none of us wants to hear it unless it is sarcastically, and that is really really hard to tell over these here intertubes.

ones last point: at what point did the gym replace the world? that's something i'm having to come up against. i remember reading one article that i can't find now (of course!) that related our so-called obesity epidemic not only with the overabundance of corn syrup in our diets but also with our life-styles. we work longer hours at jobs that are not physically beneficial. the increased automation of our industries is causing us to lose valuable exercise. and for those who live in colder climates? walking to the bus in 4 ft of snow is strenuous, but if you want more of a regular exercise, you have to be rich enough to own a gym membership. do most women work jobs that allow them this luxury? i submit that they don't, and i was a union worker at my old place of employment and we were 93% female, so i think i know of whence i speak. the fact is that sexism is keeping women in low-wage jobs, and allowing wages in industries where women are taking over the jobs to decrease at an alarming rate. just ask any secretary what she makes and if it's enough to keep her in gym memberships as well as her prescriptions and the possible care of family too. it just doesn't stretch that way.

I think the obesity argument is annoying to a lot of feminists for the same reason that the "women should be careful when they drink" argument is annoying to a lot of feminists. Whenever the subject of rape prevention comes up, someone will inevitably advise us to watch our drinks, never go out without a buddy, learn self-defense, blah blah blah paternalismcakes. And then someone else will say, "Yeah, but we're trying to find ways that men can stop rape," and then someone else will say, "But that's all good advice!" and then someone else will say, "But it's not what we're talking about!" and the other person will say, "I'm just trying to help, you ungrateful whore!" and then it's a scrum.

Just for the record - we've all gotten the memo that obesity is unhealthy. We've all gotten the memo that we need to cover our drinks and learn self-defense, and we've all gotten the memo that we need to try to eat healthy foods and exercise and keep our weight within healthy limits. And while I'm sure people mean well, and I know it's not all concern-trolling, constantly bringing up the Health Risks of Obesity!!!one!! in unrelated discussions doesn't really accomplish anything, educate anyone, or initiate meaningful dialogue.

I'm sure y'all mean well, but the vast majority of overweight people aren't extra-heavy because no one has ever told them that it's dangerous. "What do you mean, obesity contributes to heart disease and diabetes? And eating too much ice cream can make you fat? Holy crap, I had no idea; someone take this huge bowl of pasta and go get me a treadmill." And assuming that folks is way fat 'cause they just don't know better is kind of insulting.

haha

Of all the things to get feminist bloggers upset at each other . . . ice cream?!? lol

You guys all rock. I love ice cream. Ever try green tea ice cream? It's amazing.

Also, as far as size goes, I think it's perfectly fine to be bigger, but please don't start putting people down for being slender either. I'm 5'7" and 117 lbs, and I'm at my healthiest when I weight about 125 lbs. Everyone should just strive for whatever weight is the healthiest for them. That will be different for everyone, so nobody should judge.

With regards to the term "feminazi" - my mother calls me that all the time in jest, and every time I tell her I'm offended by it she accuses me of being too militant and without a sense of humor. So, really, I don't have any sort of fondness for the term - let's just put it that way.