Honestly, does IWF ever say anything NOT completely idiotic...

They must have developed some sort of newspeak definition for "Independent" when I was in that coma for a couple of years.

As the IWF imagines it, I have reverse engineered it to mean something like "GET YOUR BITCH ASS IN THE KITCHEN AND MAKE ME SOME PIE!"

Of course, they can excel in the bureaucracy, too, like Dr. Carolyn Huntoon, a former Johnson Space Center director.

I can imagine Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin and John Glenn in a love triangle. Mmmm, that's hot! The erotic short stories basically write themselves.

I love the part where she says that the Times struggles with something that's clear to 'us gals'--being crazy in love.
'Cause ya know, all 'us gals' can fully endorse and relate to the idea that being 'in love' should lead one to attempt kidnapping and murder.
What an idiot.

I, um.. uh.. well -- I. Wha-????

Please pardon my inability to form coherent sentences. My overly logical brain is apparently physically incapable of comprehending how a "women's" group can take one crazy person and decide that she is definitive proof that women should not be astronauts.

So... uhm... I guess Margot Kidder is proof that women shouldn't be actresses. And I guess Paris Hilton is proof that women shouldn't be heiresses. And I guess Andrea Yates is proof that women shouldn't be mothers.

Oh, wait. Hmm.

Law Fairy,

Picture me giving you a standing ovation *bows*.

Right on. It seems they don't believe that men can be crazy in "love" as well, but then I guess all those women who've died at the hands of husbands and boyfriends did that to themselves.

This pisses me off. It was as recently as the 90s that women going to sea was considered a big deal. People thought that women with children (you know, all women) couldn't possibly leave their children for a few months... even though men have been doing since time immemorial.

This is disturbing on a personal level because I'm a scientist who does go out sea. And when I'm there, I'm so careful about how I dress and act. It's like I'm an ambassador for this freaky species called "woman" and I need to avoid offending the natives.

This controversy tells me that I'm not paranoid... people really will penalize every woman scientist if I (*gasp*) wear short shorts in 100 degree weather.

By the reasoning of IWF, they've proved that women should not attempt any form of logic since Charlotte Hays has some inductive vs. deductive reasoning issues.

Why does every argument on why women shouldn't do certain jobs always end up with the theory that everyone will end up in a huge orgy? Does every moman always have to have an affair with a coworker? I am a clinical engineer and have spent many late nights as well as long road trips with my male coworkers. There has never been any sexual tension.

I forgot to comment on the word 'astronette'. WTF? Astronette? It sounds like heavy duty hair spray. If someone referred to me as an enginette I'd be pretty pissed off.

On a slightly different note: what does everyone think of how the media is playing out this story? The Today Show (or was it GMA?) did a piece about the stress that successful women go through, and then add on top of that the emotional strain of a relationship. (okaaaaay...) They compared this case to other famous cases, including the one where the woman found her husband in a hotel parking lot and ran him over - and over and over - with her BMW.

It just seems that the media is portraying her as someone who just couldn't handle all of the pressure until she finally snapped. I personally think she's just nuts. Thoughts?

P.S. I miss my astronaut Barbie!

No, here's what I think we should do: we should totally agree! Whenever someone snaps and attempts to wreak violence on another person because of jealousy or any other kind of romantic/sexual relationship trouble, that person's entire gender should be excluded from said person's profession.

Seriously, if we go with that, women will take over all positions of power in about thirty seconds flat.

"It just seems that the media is portraying her as someone who just couldn't handle all of the pressure until she finally snapped. I personally think she's just nuts. Thoughts?"

Yup, I agree. Reminds me of that Chris Rock punchline--"Whatever happened to just 'crazy'? Isn't anyone just 'crazy' anymore?"

As for the media coverage, I will say that it made me a little angry to hear the whole "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" line, twice, on two different shows. They never say shit like that when, you know, a man kills his wife. "Hell hath no fury like a dude who wants to kill his wife and unborn child so he can be with his mistress" just doesn't have the same 'zing' to it, I suppose.

Awesome idea, EG :)

I am so sick of the double-standards in just about everything related to women.

I wonder if the IWF would object to me calling them a bunch of pussies for not enabling comments on their posts?

Why does every argument on why women shouldn't do certain jobs always end up with the theory that everyone will end up in a huge orgy?

I don't know why, but I know who created it; the same man who postulated that all women are, by default, bisexual.

Unbe-fucking-leivable that a women's organization said that. If I had read the quote without the origin, I would have assumed it came straight from the mouths of Bill O'Reilly and the like.

Did anyone else scroll down and notice that they still have a post up claiming Amanda Marcotte was fired?

The hits just keep on coming.

"It just seems that the media is portraying her as someone who just couldn't handle all of the pressure until she finally snapped. I personally think she's just nuts. Thoughts?" An opinion piece in today's paper pointed out that NASA has many many more trained pilots than it has missions, leading to a culture of intense competition and minute scrutiny of the pilots. It's unlikely Nowak would have sought help even if she realized she had a problem.

Elle, yeah, I HATE the "hell hath no fury" angle.

I mean, um. The woman was DELUSIONAL. There was no scorn to speak of. So they're being offensive AND inaccurate.

Here you have a woman with legitimate, MAJOR mental health issues and they're trying to reduce this to a catfight. Fucking irresponsible.

Two things:
1. If anyone has read biographies of the original Mercury, Gemini and Apollo era astronauts, they were no saints, there was frequent reports of minor law breaking, affairs with random women, strip club visits, etc. Most were covered up by their hero status. Some of those guys would definitely not qualify as boy scouts.

2. I don't think what happened is an inherently gender related event. It was a mental breakdown of some type. Men and women have them. Far more murders are committed in this country by men, so if you want to avoid hiring murderers by gender alone... I think this news story would've been just as big and just as likely if a male astronaut went to threaten his rival. Its just crazy. Its not stress having a greater effect on one gender or another.

This is only news because she's an astronaut (or her victim is).

As for women on submarines, why not just have all-women subs?

We simply cannot continue to be a country that leads the world (or tries to) if we ignore the talents of half our population.

--
Excellent point, LawFairy. :)

It's absolute bullshit that anyone thinks that women shouldn't serve on submarines. The same "arguments" were made 20ish years ago when women were first assigned to support ships then 15ish years ago when we were assigned to combattants. I can tell you that in my 18 years in the Navy, as both enlisted and as an officer, I and all those women around me have served honorably right beside our male counterparts. It's an insult to every woman that has served in the Navy for IWF to insinuate that we're going to cause love triangles just by being aboard. Yes, there have been extra-marital affairs and relationship problems and everything else that goes on when men and women work together just like in hospitals, schools and offices where women are "supposed" to work.

Agghhh, this pisses me off!!!!

On a lighter note, the only problem with women on submarines according to a dear feminist submarine officer (obviously male) friend of mine is that there are often times when we may have to push three buttons at a time and well, we just don't have the tools for that kind of work!

""It just seems that the media is portraying her as someone who just couldn't handle all of the pressure until she finally snapped. I personally think she's just nuts. Thoughts?"

Yup, I agree. Reminds me of that Chris Rock punchline--"Whatever happened to just 'crazy'? Isn't anyone just 'crazy' anymore?""

No, there isn't just "crazy" anymore, because it's not that simple. Most people are ignorant of psychosis and psycological disorders. It seemed to me that the woman astronaut in question was manic. I don't know how to make an in-text link here, and others seem to get cut off, so all I can say is to look it up. Some people have Schizophrenia. Some are manic. Some have had head injuries. Some people are just naturally violent individuals, or had very bad childhood. "Crazy" is a degrading and dehumanizing term that is used by ignorant people. These people have legitimate disorders and problems and should not be looked down upon.

RedDragoness,

If the woman does have some sort of psychological disorder, isn't it her responsibility to take the proper precautions (meds, therapy, etc.) to make sure that it remains in check?

Also, bad childhood or not, she's a grown woman now. And I don't believe that "naturally violent" mess for a second.

In regards to your IWF link and this so called "take back the date" movement, when you really think about it, Valentines Day is just one huge cash cow for the flower, jewelry,greeting card, chocolate and restaurant industries. ( now this doesn't mean that i'm NOT going to be expecting a huge box of chocolates when I get home come this wednesday)
It truly baffles me how this organization will bitch and moan about "radical feminists" on campus but won't lift a finger to fight the problem of rape and domestic violence. Ladies, nothing is stopping you from getting some overpriced roses and chocolates this wednesday.

As cheesy as it sounds, shouldn't every day be valentine's day. My boyfriend and I try to do nice, thoughtful things for eachother year round, so come Valentine's day we really aren't sure what to do. So I hope these ladies from IWF enjoy their candlelight dinners and roses, and I hope it occurs to them that while they are enjoying this day, some other poor women may be fearing for her life because dinner wasn't ready on time.

I don't see why IWF should even be considered a women's group, since it was organized by men and is run by men.

Like the Holy Roman Empire, it is not independent, not a women's group, and offers no open forum.

And yes, all-female submarine crews would be way cool.

Malaika924,

People having a psychotic episode don't realize that they are having one. It would be nice if they were able to relaize it, but it does not work that way. As far as they believe, they are perfectly normal. Perhaps you should do some reading on psychological disorders and psychology. This is my fiance's area of expertise, and I've learned a lot from him. I used to believe the same brand of bullshit that most others believe.

Some people refuse to take medications because they make them feel like shit. I don't blame them. They shouldn't have to take it if the it makes them feel bad. Perhaps companies should formulate the medications better, or perhaps the patients should be made aware of alternatives with little or no side effects. They are out there. It's just that people ignore them in misguided favor of meds made by greedy companies, and okayed by the flawed FDA, neither of which have the well-being of people as their first priority.

Whether you believe it or not, it is scientific fact that some people are biologically predisposed to be more violent. To deny that is a demonstration in ignorance. You seem to be trying to argue on a subject you know obviously next to nothing about.

RedDragoness,

I know much more about it then whatever second-hand knowledge you got from your fiance. I've got first-hand knowledge. I am one of those people who needs to take meds everyday probably for the rest of my life just to function. I know what it feels like to lose my mind. I know that I have a responsibility not only to myself but to those I love to take the proper precautions. Don't talk down to someone you don't know.

Also, astronauts go through many psychological assessments before they are accepted into the program. Those doctors would've caught any problems and made sure she was taken care of.

Do you have a psychotic disorder? You never gave any indication that you had problems. Perhaps, if you don't want people to make assumptions, you should give them something to go on, yes?

Just because that woman was all fine and dandy in the head when she started her job, doesn't mean she would be now. Pshychotic disorders can manifest at any age. People in some age ranges are more likely to develop them than others.

Schizophrenia, for exapmple, usually manifests itself in the teens and twenties. Scizophrenia in childhood is very rare. Although, it seemed more like that woman was having a manic episode.

It still seems, despite your "first hand knowledge", that you are poorly educated on psychotic disorders, or you would not be spewing such ignorance.

Do you have a psychotic disorder? You never gave any indication that you had problems. Perhaps, if you don't want people to make assumptions, you should give them something to go on, yes?

Perhaps people simply shouldn't make assumptions, yes? The only reason I even said anything was because I didn't appreciate someone who didn't know a damn thing about me calling me ignorant. Besides, even if I had mentioned it off the bat what would that have accomplished? For someone who shows such compassion towards those with psychological disorders, you still continue to act like a self-righteous bitch towards me, even after I let loose my little secret.

It still seems, despite your "first hand knowledge", that you are poorly educated on psychotic disorders, or you would not be spewing such ignorance.

Yeah, having to actually live with a disorder is nothing compared to the experience of hearing about it from a man who's studying the subject from books and articles and the like. WTF was I thinking? [/sarcasm]

Anyway, the point that I've been trying to make is that just because someone's "crazy" does not mean that they're "insane". She knew exactly what she was doing when she went after that woman.