Related: There's this article in today's Christian Science Monitor:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1004/p01s01-usgn.html

thank you, thank you, thank you.

i live in denver and snowshoe five minutes from that school. you don't understand the serenity of that area until you've been there and something like this is so horrific.

the misogyny that surrounds these events is blatant and unmistakable. i live 40 minutes from where this occurred, 10 minutes from where columbine happened...and NO ONE is talking about the shootings. maybe a few people mentioned it the day it happened, and everyone was watching the news...but in the days following, it was like the pink elephant in the corner of the room. as tragic as columbine was people are still talking about it, and i believe the reason people aren't discussing what happened in bailey is because of the way he picked the girls and molested them. no one wants to talk about that over lunch, now do they?

and now with pennsylvania...still nothing. no discourse, no ranting--just the typical newsheadings and lamenting about what went wrong in the killer's life to make him do this. nothing about the fact that he targeted young girls and brutally murdered them in a style laden with misogynistic dominance.

sorry for the rant.

That email is extremely disturbing. I'm sorry that you have to deal with that sort of thing on a regular basis.

I wrote briefly about the issue of school violence yesterday:

http://stephanieanagnoson.blogspot.com/2006/10/ms-theologian-takes-on-violence-in.html

God, that email is just so disgusting and infuriating...what is there to say?

Christ. That's nasty stuff.

And speaking as a man (which means I'm considered a "safe" audience if a guy wants to go on a rant about how women need to be kept in their place and so forth), I can say that I hear a lot more open misogyny than I do open racism or (for that matter) open homophobia, and I live in Mississippi. Most of my best male friends have made misogynistic comments at some time or another, in fact.

I still remember riding out of a fun event having had a great time hanging out with a young mother and her new baby. When I told the very dignified older man driving me home that sitting me next to a baby is a guaranteed way to keep me occupied, he started talking about her knockers right away. I saw no problem with it at the time, though I found it incredibly tedious and immediately turned it into a discussion about breastfeeding laws.

It bothered me a little at the time, and I didn't realize why until it hit me today that it's the same thing a white friend might do if he's talking about a neighborhood "going downhill" without specifying that it's because blacks moved in. The overt misogyny here, and the shooting of the girls at the Amish school, is disgusting and overt. And I can't get past the feeling that overt sexism, like overt racism, is enabled by the more subtle sexism that permeates our culture everywhere.

This morning, I got an email from a friend explaining to me that he has all the respect in the world for me, he feels the need to say as a friend that because I'm a feminist and reject traditional gender roles and the degrading way men avoid friendships with women and so forth (sticking to the "ladder theory"), I'm dooming myself to a life of singlehood. I thanked him for his thoughts but said I disagreed. Now I wish I'd just sent him a link to this thread. There is a price to our masculine indifference.

Cheers,

TH

"her knockers" = the mother's breasts, not the baby's. Though I think it reads funnier that way, come to think of it.

Jessica, when did you get that nasty email...? Was it recent?

Cheers,

TH

Jessica, I just wanted to lend you some support--if it were me receiving threats, even crazy ones, I would feel very shaken and frightened. Your work is valuable, and after seeing this email and the ridiculous Althouse stuff, I have a new appreciation for what you go through in order to do it. So thank you, and I'm really sorry.

God, that email is just so disgusting and infuriating...what is there to say?

... ditto.

literally, stomach turning.
I'd rather be on the feminist side and get hate mail than be associated with people who have a complete lack of decency.

TH - it's interesting to hear a guy's perspective on this. Maybe you'll have an answer to my question (probably not, since it's directed to misogynists, not men, but you never know):

I've heard this garbage before, as it's frequently spewed on Craigslist rants & raves (craigslist is my way of dealing with insomnia). I always want to ask these guys why. What is it about women that's inferior or worthy of such degredation. People who are racist often thing that another race is stupid or violence-prone, or something like that. They're WRONG, but they have a rationale. So presumably, if I showed a racist, IQ scores proving that race X wasn't stupid, s/he would either a) find a new reason to hate members of race X or b) hate them less (or c) say I'm a lying liberal).

My point is that while I disagree with them, they at least claim to have a reason. But these mysogynists don't. They're not saying "women are stupid" or "women steal things" explicitly. They're just saying they hate women.

How does that work? This guy, who's never met me, thinks that I "deserve" to have all sorts of awful things happen to me. Why?

i was wondering why anything about the shootings wasnt up. strangely i havent heard much about them at ALL let alone anything talking about why it was the girls that were killed...except from my bf's mysogynist stepdad (who's actually kicking us out for my being feminist...and yes he did say that was the reason!). so thanks for the links!

Now, I'm not a lawyer or anything, but isn't it illegal to send someone death threats via email?

Of course if the sender was arrested and/or sent to jail over it, he'd probably become another one of these men who decide to shoot a roomful of little girls because "teh femnists" ruined his life.

Sigh. I'm depressed now.

I stand with you. Don't be terrified.

That you and Echidne are brave enough to actually read some of the dreck... you have my admiration of your bravery.

I agree with Vervain. I think the email probably violates 18 U.S.C. § 875(c) (a felnony punishably by up to 5 years in prison) and possibly other laws as well. I'd encourage you to forward the email to your local FBI field office.

I totally agree that it seems to be open season on females and I don't like it one bit. Men who dislike spending time in the company of women are pathetic. There is really something wrong with them. It is so unbelievably sad, how young schoolgirls were specifically targeted, and nothing is made of that fact in the media. Although, I must say, the K-Y Corp. is getting lots of free publicity. Couldn't you just barf? This was one crazy mofo, with his molestation equipment. Sickening...

"And I can't get past the feeling that overt sexism, like overt racism, is enabled by the more subtle sexism that permeates our culture everywhere."

TH, you hit the nail on the HEAD. I try explaining this to a lot of my non-feminist friends (acquaintances might be a better word) and I always get the response that I need to loosen up and chill out, etc., etc., etc. You put this much better than I've been able to, though. Not that these people are likely to listen... :P

It's just so frustrating how people think it's okay to mock women and that this somehow doesn't lead, in the aggregate, to outright disrespect for women as human beings. And how people are so *threatened* by someone who dares not to live by the status quo.

TH, I, too, have gotten the doomed-to-a-life-of-singledom lecture ("men don't like feminists"). Personally, I'm absolutely fine with being single forever, if that's the only possible way to live my life with dignity and to demand respect. If being coupled up *requires* that I degrade and lower myself, I'd much rather stay up here alone.

It is illegal to threaten this way in many places. It's called communicating threats in most states. Of course, Vervain might be right about the backlash, but maybe the sentence would involve therapy and education (oh, I was dreaming).

I would also like an answer to DT's question. Why?

jesus christ. what kind of sick person says something like that? i mean, honestly...
i feel a little ill that some people really think that way.

The impulses for hate are too primitive for a reasoned search.

"Why" will remain an open question. But, some people prove by their behavior that they must be kept at a distance.

Whoa, that's really fucked up. Really fucked up.
I'd love to see these shootings addressed as hate crimes, which they are, but I think that's a long way off.
Oh, wait, that's because women aren't covered under hate crime statutes.

Jessica, I second everyone here in saying that you and all the feministing ladies are doing incredibly brave, important work. I try to do my part at my own little friends-only livejournal, but I really admire you guys for being willing to put yourselves out there and write (one day perhaps I'll be able to shrug off my own inhibitions to do the same). I stand with you, terrified or not, because this shit is scary.

Has anyone else noticed the "our American brothers" portion of that e-mail? Is it possible the people who wrote it are from outside the united states? Or is it even more possible that this is some middle class white kid getting pissy about having someone declare that his cock is not the center of the universe?

I'm so sorry that you have to read dreck like that, Jessica and everybody else on feministing. Courage and warm hugs sent your way.

I agree with Vervain, and think you should forward that e-mail to the FBI.

I began reading one "men's rights" blog regularly, after its readers came over and gave my blog a thorough trolling. I am constantly astounded by the degree of rage expressed there, and the way in which they frame it in terms of their own victimhood. Recently, the blog's author asserted that most feminists are angry at men because they feel guilty for having enjoyed being sexually abused as children. These people are NUTS. Dangerous nuts.

I'm sorry you have to deal with crap like that. While none of the guys that I know are misogynists would ever say something like that, I remember being shocked when a friend of mine, discussing pretty girls, he said, "I hate pretty, pretty has always hurt me." And I asked him if that meant he hated me too (since he called me pretty once upon a time.) He said no, I was different. Another friend, who told me he hated and mistrusted all women was confused when I said that made him hard to trust. He asked if I thought he would hurt me. I told him I could see it happening if he got mad. He said the same thing, I was somehow different. Neither of them could tell me why I was different. I don't know, either. And that scares the hell out of me.
(having written this, I'm not really sure it's on topic, so delete it if you want)

("men don't like feminists")

Can I make a t-shirt or something with the slogan:

Real Men Like Real Women: Real Men Like Feminists

?

Now after hearing a lot about you from our American brothers

Where is it from, Jessica? You can usually tell by the IP address from the email.

don't let the bastards get you down

you are doing great work

I agree with the folks who suggested that this be forwarded to your nearest FBI field office. It definitely is illegal to send an email of that nature, under both state and federal laws. Though I did assume, based on the "American brothers" line, that this was someone living outside of the country.

There are times when people I've gotten attached to online are treated so harshly that I really hate the fact that this medium won't let me give anybody a hug, and this is one of those times. I really feel like I'm almost betraying you by sitting here and having this very abstract conversation about sexism when you've been treated like this. All I can say is that I'm sorry.

DT, I can only begin to speculate on why so many men think like this. I think it usually stems from sexual frustration and feelings of inadequacy--a pathetic kind of "Oh, you don't want me? Well, I don't want you people either." ego defense mechanism that gets channeled into rage and the need to have power over, to dominate, to abuse women to claim some distorted kind of self-worth. That's all I can figure, anyway. I've never had that kind of hostility towards women and I have a hard time imagining what it would be like.

And TLF, thank you so much. And a hearty amen. I'd much rather be single for life as a feminist who respects women as human beings than live life as some kind of fratboy Casanova. Sex is a possible way of displaying affection but it's not something I need, and if I have to dominate, manipulate, or dehumanize women to get it, I don't want it.

Cheers,

TH

I'd like to give you guys a virtual hug. I've stopped reading feminist or gender news for short periods sometimes because it really gets too much for me.

Keep up the great work here and don't let nasty vermin get you down.

xx

Not to be too alarmist, but as a PI who works his share of sex crimes, I think you should take that email pretty seriously. Obviously you haven't reproduced all of it, and there's some attempt by the authors to make you believe they're foriegners or some kind, etc., so I can't know exactly how probable it would be for the threat to be carried out. But the specific nature of the threat, particular the fascination with destroying the very parts of your feminity, speaks to someone with a disturbed fantasy life and a very focused hatred of women.

Keep in mind that finding photos of you women is pretty easy--Jessica has dozens on her flickr site or whatever image sharing thing that is. It's not hard to figure out where you live, and your full names are published right here. Not that you shouldn't have those sites or your full names, of course. We are the "home of the brave," after all. But someone espousing these kinds of violent fantasies wouldn't necessarily need to work too hard to find you in person, and you would be very fitting symbols of the object of this man's hatred. Make sure law enforcement is made aware of these.

Gah. Even the wording of the threat is objectifyingly ignorant. He goes after the organs that men fetishize on women -- boobs, vaginas, anuses -- rather than, say, promising to bash your brains out or put a bullet through your heart. Because, of course, women don't have brains or hearts (except for the little frilly hearts that appear on Victoria's Secret teddies).

Hey all, have been traveling so haven't had a chance to comment until now. Thanks so much for all the support, and for the advice on the email.

I'm planning on reporting it, taking Fred's advice here.

To answer the questions about the email--we got it a couple of days ago from someone after they commented something similar on the site (and were banned obviously). The IP address from the comment says they're in India...

Thanks again for the support, y'all. It means a lot.

I think it makes sense to be depressed. I've been frustrated--to say the least--about the lack of coverage too.

Good call on reporting it. Good luck too.

damn,

I'm sorry that you (and all of your fellow feminist bloggers) have to put up with all that crap, but I'm so happy to read this site everyday. Keep up the good work (and definitely save and forward all the emails you get like that to law enforcement).

...it figures that just now the German internet radio station that's playing on my boyfriend's computer across the room has put on a remix of Aqua's "Barbie Girl". Her very childish voice is spliced with a guy's very Terminator-ish voice telling her (in German) about absolutely disgusting things that he's going to do to her/wants her to do. It's f*ing disturbing, and it's f*ing everywhere.

I'm really glad you guys (ok, girls) exist.

The rise and ease of proxying makes IP addresses pretty suspect. It's easy to hide behind a public proxy if you're savvy enough. Regardless, there are similarities to this an another round of emails from earlier this year which included the phrase: "We, soldiers of Allah will rape you feminists and then disbowel you and cut your boobs. Then post digital videoclips of the events on our brothers' websites..." Hmmm...

The IP address from the comment says they're in India...

So they're outsourcing threats now? ;)

Please keep us updated on the investigation...perhaps you could get some of the 419 scam baiter geeks to help?

Reading that email doesn't make me want to hug anyone. It makes me want to find the people who sent it and set them on fire. But that's just me.

Okay, mildly cathartic violent fantasies aside, I think it should also be made explicit that this is 1) hate speech, and 2) intended to silence political speech. I have no idea if this makes a difference to law enforcement (I believe it would in Canada), but I think it's worth noting in any case.

Extreme hatred like that expressed in the email is a pathology. Often, people who have that kind of hatred have been badly abused or traumatized (by seeing abuse) growing up. Neurologists have shown that exposure to violence/trauma actually causes changes in neural pathways leading to more excitable behavior and violent thoughts. This is part of why domestic violence becomes such a difficult cycle to break.

As for less dangerous, but still toxic run-in-the-mill misogyny, my Dad had a pretty good insight which he shared with me when I was a teen, and over the years, I think it's held up. He said that men with such issues usually suffered from poor relationships with other MEN. They tend to see themselves as inferior in nearly any social situation, and so automatically look to put women lower than themselves. As a therapist, Dad said his experiences were that such men often had been treatedly badly by other guys (dads, brothers, schoolmates) as kids. Dad was the first guy to point out to me that the "macho-man" "guys-guy" sterotypes wind up hurting BOTH men and women. Unfortunately, a culture that glorifies violence in general, is going to encourage more men to be like this.

Depression is only about a fifteen minute walk from rage,which would be appropriate,so it's safe to assume that your depression is also appropriate,and a good place to start.

I'm with Heraclitus. That email from the anal cyst who sent it would just make me want to respond: "Oh really? Alright mother f*cker. Bring it on. But be prepared to go with me. See you in Hell, Bitch."

I love Diamanda Galas, and she's said in interviews that feminists anger her. Not because we're feminists, she is, too. It's because we're NOT out killing wastes of space like the one who sent the email. Or any other man or woman who isn't feminist.

So, when I see these emails, it's hard not to side with her on that point.
Hey, here's an idea: let's get Heraclitus, Diamanda, and myself all trained up as Jessica and the other ladies' bodyguards!

I love Diamanda Galas, and she's said in interviews that feminists anger her. Not because we're feminists, she is, too. It's because we're NOT out killing wastes of space like the one who sent the email.

Great point. I think there's a tendency to assume that feminists are generally pacificts, or that women in general "have to be the bigger person" in these situations. You can also apply this to lesser offenses...the argument usually goes like this:

1. Some men ______ women.
2. Some other women let it go and say they won't stoop to the man's level (either through misguided forgiveness, or superiority).
3. Some women _______ men, and are then accused of being "_______."
4. These women call the men "______" right back.
5. Those men respond with the dependably unimaginative, "but men are ______ and women only ______."

And so on. Repeat. It's like feminist Mad Libs.

I'd like to say something like "unbelievable," but that sort of stupidity is anything but.

Just don't let yourself be intimidated by him.

Any thoughts on why so many men are going over the edge lately?

Andrea Yates was defended on the grounds of mental instability, for the crime of killing her five children. Ditto for the mother who threw her three kids into San Francisco Bay.These women get sympathy and and an insanity defense.

The Amish school shooter was obviously mentally disturbed...if he had not falled through the cracks, if more men got the attention and treatment they need for depression etc instead of being told to 'suck it up and deal with it like men',these things might not happen. The news bleats on about how he was disturbed for years after the death of his daughter, how he had pedophilic tendencies...were all around him blind? No one does anything about a human time bomb for years and years and when he finally explodes it's attributed to men's basic evil tendencies...not society's often indifferent attitude towards the suffering of men.

Crella, why do you think it's appropriate to try to hijack a thread about a death threat sent to a person whom we all know, at least on-line, in order to play the "poor misunderstood men" tune? It's profoundly disrespectful. I typed out an answer, and then I erased it; you don't deserve to be allowed to control the subject of the thread like that.

Jane, I *love* the feminist Mad Libs. I'm buying one for my next party! ;)

crella, you bring up a GREAT point. Sexism hurts men, too. I've often thought the statistic that men suffer from depression less than women is likely skewed to some extent. Men are taught it's not okay to show "weak" emotions like hurt and sadness, and that only "strong" emotions like anger and hate are acceptable. But you're absolutely right -- there's nothing inherent about men's psyches that makes them less prone to hurt or sadness. They're just taught to bury it, and are we really so surprised when it bubbles to the surface in harmful ways?

I'm all for getting better about helping men get better.

Patriarchy hurts men because it dehumanizes them and they in turn oppress women. Sexism hurts women because women can't be sexist towards men but can be biased and prejudiced.

I don't know what you should do about these emails, Jessica. It's scary because they're serious.

Now after hearing a lot about you from our American brothers

Seems like he's been reading MRA sites. I kinda knew they weren't American because at least there's been awareness and education so most men know that rape is bad and wouldn't say such extreme things. Or they've heard from a friend or a friend of a friend who's been raped.

Jessica, I was horrified to read that email. Everyone does a great job at Feministing and I really enjoy reading it every day. You are all brave, strong women and it's hard to see that people direct such hatred toward you. If I could send a hug, I would.

Thank you so much, Jessica, for bringing this up - I have been asking myself the same question. I can't say anything everyone else hasn't already said better, but these things are definately in the forefront of my mind, especially the question: Why do so many men hate women? I noticed the alarming lack of mention concerning the blatant targeting of girls, and wondered if it was apathy, or just a really big pile of shit taking its time to hit the fan.

I read this site every day and value what all you ladies (and gentlemen commenters) have to say - I think your work is momentously important, and is growing more important by the day. I look forward to a time when I can contribute more, and for now suffice myself with reading the posts here.

EG, I agree with you that the "suffering of men" is not a subject to capitalize on at the moment, but I also agree with Law Fairy that it's worthwhile to examine ways that sexism damages men, too. I think if more men realize that sexism does not, indeed, serve them like it has in the past, perhaps we could gain more momentum toward the goal of an egalitarian society together.

I want to add: Yes, the MRA sites are so full of women-directed rage it's scary. They don't even have a direct target, like a book or an article or an event, it's all women they hate. My boyfriend and I were discussing this and he mentioned that every major religion treats women as subordinates, and that this might likely be a reason for the woman-hatred that crosses every racial, cultural and geographical line.

I'm up for the bodyguard thing. I know it's not very feminist to emulate Arnold Schwarzenegger, but I can't help but think of the end of Commando. He's fighting his arch-nemesis for the movie, some absurdly overweight Aussie, and he rips a pipe out of the wall and throws it at the guy ("Bennett"). The pipe impales Bennett, and nails him to a steam tank behind him. As he hangs there choking and dying, with steam shooting out of the pipe, Schwarzenegger says, "Hey, Bennett, let off some steam." I imagine something similar, only with the line, "Hey, misogynist douchebag, let off some steam."

Or maybe we could just track them down using their IPs. But what would we say? Why, of course--"Enough is enough! I have had it with these mother f*cking misogynists on these mother f*cking internets!"

It really disturbs me to hear about this. How could a "human" (I use the word loosely) write such filth? I just wanted to say that you and this site means a lot to me. Feministing.com is to me as Oprah is to everyone else. That would be a cool t-shirt, I think. Keep up on reporting the real news and don't let those dickheads get you down! All of you are very cool people.

I always have 100 working theories why there's so much damn hate aimed at women, but when I see something like that, all my theories fall flat.

one theory. capitalism disenfranchises so many and it's easy to take out one's frustations those below you. women are stereotyped to such a degree in patriarchy it's easy to take out all that frustration on women.

It all depresses me too. But we all have to stay strong and stick together, right? One step forward, two steps back... as long as we all make the steps together.

I have a feeling that even our friends at the IWF are on our side on this issue, if the Christian Science Monitor article is any indication.

I used to blog about feminist issues fairly regularly. Of course, I blog about a lot of things, so it wasn't like feminism was the only topic to grace my pages. It was, however, the only topic to cause me to receive threatening emails. There was also (at one point) a very lengthy thread on an anti-feminist discussion forum dedicated solely to bashing me. After they contacted my boss in an (unsuccessful) attempt to get me fired (!) I hate to admit that I stopped writing as much about feminism.

I'm grateful to the women of feministing and other feminist bloggers for continuing to blog on this topic!

Sometimes when I get really nasty emails, they were written with such emotion and derision that I'll usually see the work email/address/phone number of the person who called. Mentioning their flub is good for apologies... or calling the police.

there have been serious attacks on women here in the DC metro area and no one is raising a fuss. 5 women have been sexually assaulted near the dunn loring/fairfax metros. 6 women have been sexually assaulted in the Reston area. two women have been murdered, one by gunshot, one by being set on FIRE by husbands who had their restraining orders dismissed by judges. no one in the media reporting these crimes are having any real discussions about the misogyny behind these acts. its makes me shake with anger.

*apologies in advance for the very long post*
I think it's human nature to fear "the other."
Your preferred whipping-boy group might be women, men, other races, other religions, liberals, conservatives, the wealthy, the poor, or any of countless "others" on a very long list, but it all comes down to wanting a target for your frustration. It happens here just like anywhere else--who hasn't thought to themselves on occasion, "if only there were no misogynists...the world would be so much better"?
(And it probably would be--don't get me wrong--but it's still blaming an amorphous group of unknowns for the world's problems)
I think it's perfectly normal to have these thoughts. I think the human brain is wired to see patterns, make distinctions, and to try and sort things into categories, like good/bad, familiar/unfamiliar, safe/dangerous. Evolutionarily it makes sense; if that fire burns you, that other fire that looks a lot like it probably will, too. But applied in a social context, it results in stereotypes, usually erroneous, because every sentient living creature has its own personality and life experiences which shape who and what it is. There's just too many variables to compartmentalize--and yet our brains try.
However, there's a vast difference between thinking "if only there were no misogynists" and, say, going out with a shotgun and blowing away every man who whistles at you because you're wearing a miniskirt.
This is all a very longwinded lead-in to what I wanted to say, which is that I think fear and desperation are a big contributor to this sort of behavior. Most people fear the unknown. Fear of something often turns to hatred of it. Fear is frequently borne of ignorance, because the unfamiliar is a) scary, and b) easier to generalize about. Thus, the "other" is the unknown.
Right now, the misogyny, racism, homophobia, and even political partisanship in the US seem to have gotten really bad--they've always been here, and probably always will--but they seem to have gotten a lot more extreme and violent in their expression. I've theorized that it's generalized fear & frustration needing a target that's at least partly behind it. Americans are very frightened right now--they're living under a government that's whittling away all their rights while the media fans the flames by continually reminding them of all the horrible ways they can suffer and die. The world is overpopulated; there's not enough room, not enough resources, not enough anything to go around. Back a starving, frightened dog into a corner, and it will snap at you. Cram a few dozen frightened dogs in a tiny room, and they'll tear each other to pieces.
I'm not excusing any of this behavior, btw. We can choose not to act on these feelings. We can choose to examine them and learn their source, to defuse them. We can choose to turn off the TV when what we see frightens us, or makes aggression and violence (toward any target) out to be an acceptable means of expressing our frustration with aspects of our life we can't control. Unfortunately, that's not the approach typically suggested in the world we live in. Our culture has become so hyper-masculinized and desensitized towards violence that these "extreme" examples are becoming increasingly common. An example: Current Republicans claim that Democrats don't have "the balls" to fight the terrorists because they're willing to see them as people (albeit disturbed and dangerous people) rather than as inhuman targets we can freely bomb, torture, and detain at will. This was not an attitude generally held 5-10 years ago. The extreme has been presented to us as acceptable, as fact. And if the extreme becomes the everyday--well, I for one don't want to see the new extreme. That's what scares me.
That's my theory. Sadly I haven't worked out what can be done to fix it. But I definitely don't think violence is the answer. I think those upthread who suggested violence be inflicted upon the email-writer are disturbingly close to being like him--just with a different target in their sights.
We need less hatred and violence, not more.
But then, I'm a pacifist.

This makes me think about a conversation I have had with several female friends of mine; they've all made the point that when they have children they don't want to have girls because they would be too scared of what could happen to her. I've always thought the opposite-and I'm not a mother so perhaps this is ridiculous naivite on my part, but I just can't imagine anything worse than being the mother of a person who would write something like that. What a dispicable sorry excuse for a human being. Sometimes I think the reason the women's movement seems to falter so much is women are still scared to be seen as angry. Imagine the response if those words had been said about a race. This makes me so angry and I'm so tired of feeling like I have to sugarcoat and water down any sort of critisism I may have about the sexist world we live in for fear of being branded "psycho"-I think I've finally had enough. I'm an angry woman and am from now on will be behaving as such.

Wow janekeeler, I can't believe these guys hunted you down and tried to interfere with your life. What I really want to do now is put up a blog that discusses feminism, and say "Bring it ON, motherfuckers!"

I'm all for tolerance and peace, but I'll be damned before I back down from anyone who's being an asshole.

Vervain, you brought up some very good points. About my bile against the mysogonists, though, I do have to say: They hated me first! ;)

I'm glad we have this place to discuss this - it's very important to me, and I love that we have men who contribute to the discussion too. We've got to keep fighting the good fight, brothers and sisters - it's the only way we're going to win.

interesting you say that, annakarenina. I've always been afraid of having a boy (don't have any kids yet) because I'm worried that somehow, I'll screw it up, and I'll end up with just another jackass. Totally unjustified, I know.

I've always wanted to have a girl. The "I fear for my daughter" argument makes me so sad and frustrated - it's so full of hopelessness. Doing right by your daughter is one of the best ways to help out the cause of women everywhere. Why is this not more apparent? That defeated, hidden self-hatred has got to go, just as much as angry, outward hate.

I was one of the upthread commenters advocating violence--lots of it, and doled out with witty action-movie punchlines and references. But I think there's a pretty fundamental difference between people threatening to sexually mutilate and kill people for publicly exercising their intellects, and responding to these threats with violence. The pacifism Vervain advocates seems to me to make any principled action impossible. Everyone has their own reasons for acting, everyone just needs a hug, and they'll behave better. That Hitler fellow isn't so bad, if we just give him Sudentland...

By the way, my point isn't that being "tougher" with Hitler would have prevented the war. My point is he should have been attacked sooner to prevent the Holocaust. Yes, that would have killed people, just like the Holocaust. But Nazis were guilty, Jews innocent, a pretty fundamental distinction to me.

But maybe I just don't want to change my mind because of my double-snark-points achievement of combining a Snakes on a Plane reference with an "internets" reference. I could have said "tubes of the internets," I suppose, but I think that would have been trying too hard.

>>Now after hearing a lot about you from our American brothers, I strongly believe that each of you feminists deserved to be anal-fucked and gang-raped and then we will cut your boobs and empty whole magazines of 16 bullets into your vaginas. Then post live digital videos of the rape+executions on all men's sites around the world for our AAA entertainment.

Who sent you this email??

A 15-year-old in Wisconsin just went on a rampage at his school and ended up killing his (male) principal. At first it doesn't seem related to sexism, but the reason given for his anger was that other kids in school called him "faggot," a term I consider homophobic, rooted in sexism.

I told my roommate this morning that it seemed like sexism was like global warming: both are hurting everyone, but because they both benefit some (male privilege, westerners' unlimited use of fossil fuels) and because the links are indirect (the general public doesn't quite understand how sexism leads to all sorts of evils like school shootings, and how global warming leads to natural disasters) the effects will slowly destroy us before people figure it out. Because really, those could all be isolated incidents, caused by something else...

And people accept all the little subtle sexist actions. My mom was at a school board meeting where a guy told the joke "Why don't women like domestic violence? Because they JUST DON'T GET IT" (as he punches a fist into the other palm). One woman there (the only black person) told my mom that guys who are willing to make sexist jokes like that often also make racist ones, and if that happened, the school district would have a lawsuit on their hands. My (relatively leftist, feminist) mom was confused when I commented that it was wrong that no-one would ever think to bring a lawsuit because of sexist comments--even though they create a climate of insecurity for women and girls in a group that makes decisions for all the girls (and boys) in the school district. In any case, nobody at the meeting called the guy out. It seems like a small step from accepting jokes about domestic violence against women to accepting the violence itself.

I am so very sorry that you receive such hateful sociopathic messages. I can only offer that many men are better than that. Many, but I wish I could say most.

I am so very sorry that you receive such hateful sociopathic messages. I can only offer that many men are better than that. Many, but I wish I could say most.

I think most men are better than that. I would wish what was said on my worst enemy.

Sorry typo...I meant to say "WOULDN'T wish what was said on my worst enemy".

Some links to share with you all.
Salon.com speaks out on day 1:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2006/10/02/shootings/index.html

"I hate feminism"? I hadn't heard of this one:
http://www.msmagazine.com/news/uswirestory.asp?ID=9916

And a story of my own to share and inspire -- Today in my Feminist Theory class, my professor Zillah Eisenstein (quite the feminist theorist herself) was talking about bell hooks' "Talking Back". She only gave us this momentary inspirational speech, but it really stuck with me. She was talking about the importance of the title itself, Talking Back, and she challenged us: When you see these things that are wrong, or you see these things that are out of control, don't just challenge them in your mind. Don't be silent. Too often we continue to live out our oppression through our silence. Why aren't we talking back?
We're BIG fans of talking back around these parts, but are we (everyone who reads Feministing) talking back in our every day endeavors?
There's so much hate out there. Let's talk back and challenge it.

I wish I could be surprised that the rage and threats contained in that e-mail, but saddly, I rather expect it.

I am sorry, however, that you had to receive such vile trash.

Know that the anger is in response to your successful website and powerful message - and keep it up.

*blink*
Forward that email - with full headers - to your local law enforcement and the FBI as soon as possible. A lot of times the FBI won't do much, but I have worked in internet security and had excellent success with local police departments trying to track down internet criminals.

You also need to send to HIS local law enforcement - the area responsible for where his IP address is located - if he is in the United States.

You do good work here, so keep it up :)

Wow, so much to say...

First,*shudder* Grrrr! at that email. Try not to be depressed. You are a symbol of the power that they fear. Dreck like him surface because you are doing a good job. Still, my vote is to forward to the authorities.

Second, I want to trumpet the TalkBack philosophy especially (as a man) for men since we have the luxury of being able to question the actions of others of our gender with less chance of being marginalized and dismissed as "uppity women". It is harder to pigeon hole a man who is making a feminist assertion and therefore the other guy has to think about what you said for a little bit (granted maybe only a fraction of a second)longer. It makes men talking back to men that much more important.

Thirdly, I was very afraid of having a son and having a 6yo daughter now confirms why. Kids are, for developmental reasons, pretty self centered. While I constantly work to instill altruistic patterns on my daughter, I see her actions often as powerful and self-reliant where as if she were a boy I know I would interpret them as his developing sense of male entitlement and be constantly (consciously and unconsciously) trying to crush them. I think I would real f'k up a son.

More to say, but this post is already too long... I all you people!

There was supposed to be a "heart" between "I" and "all you people"

As for the more generalised, concealed sexism... Eh, it's just the same old thing: People who enjoy having power over others trying to exert power by degrading the percieved lesser. In this case, laregly through objectification - if they're only there for sex, they are clearly inferior.

Or at least that's my best guess on the idiots.

Ah, great, more typekey...

This is my first time commenting, and I wish it were under better circumstances. My sympathies for having to read that sort of trash; I have some sense of how that must feel. :/ Anyway, I was going to email you offering to lean on certain hacker friends to help in tracking this bastard down, but realizing that if law enforcement took it seriously, their resources would more than dwarf anything I could offer. Still, it stands, if you reply with any interest. I'd also advise forwarding a copy of the email to his ISP.

As for reasons some men hate women, I have another idea about it: two of the ideas that are traditionally hammered into men in most societies is that 1) weakness is contemptible and 2) women are weak. These ideas aren't usually directly linked, from what I've seen, but idiots like this seem to be pretty good at putting two and two together.

The "women are weak" meme is one I've focused on opposing, especially since I'm now raising a daughter. I'm deliberately avoiding pushing the usual garbage that girls get, and I'm trying to teach her to be strong, rational, and self-reliant (since she's two years old, this may take some time). She's already very interested in mechanical things, an interest we share, and I have plans to spend a lot of father-daughter time with her working on machinery if she remains amenable. She seems to have a limited interest in traditional "girl" play, so far as we can tell, though we haven't made any specific efforts to steer her in either direction. She likes spiders, too. ^.^ I can sympathize with people who are paranoid about what might happen to their daughters, but the solution to this is not to be overprotective and lock them in a bunker until they turn 18, but to teach them how to defend themselves, how to recognize and avoid deception and exploitation, and how to be assertive; teaching them to deal with the world rather than to be afraid of it.

Just... be careful, alright?

The sexism and anger in those emails disturbs me deeply. Jessica, I am so sorry that you and the other Feministing ladies have to put up with this. You are all such an inspiration to me- in fact, your work is part of what made me start blogging- and I want to thank you for all that you do. Please don't let hateful messages like that ever discourage you!

Its scary how often I read of hateful things like that email, when I am online. Who are these people?? I always wonder if I am insulated in my own little world of kind and intelligent friends? I hope not...but then I go online and this sort of hatefull writing seems common. Terrifying. I truely admire your work and courage. Please keep it up!
I also wanted to expand a little on what Azkyroth said. I am a mother to a young boy. I worry so much about the effects of society on him as he grows up. He is going to be hurt by sexism, just as little girls will be. However, in his case, society will seek to make him the agressor. I HATE the social pressures he will be up against as he grows up. I worry he'll be berated and beat up if he isn't "man" enough. And I can't imagine the sorrow I would feel if the little boy who I love so deeply grew up to feel such animosity towards women.
I'm not at all taking the side of the Men's Empowerment guys when i say this, but in the US social education is very confusing for a boy. I mean there is no way around it: he will get shit if he goes to middle school wearing a dress, calling himself a feminist, or just being emotionally sensitive or even kind. I think that both his dad and I are great role models and teachers for him to become a man who accepts his emotions and thinks critically. But there will always be that social influence. I'm not writing this simply to say "poor boys" but to say that their social education is equally important in order to attain feminist goals of equality between the sexes. i hope that this made sense.
Jeez...this is making me cry. I hope it made sense!

"Crella, why do you think it's appropriate to try to hijack a thread about a death threat sent to a person whom we all know, at least on-line, in order to play the "poor misunderstood men" tune?"

The topic begins...

"I've been so upset over the recent school shootings targeting young girls in Colorado and Pennsylvania...I haven't really wanted to post about it. When I read about second shooting, I was in Woodstock with my Dad and I just lost it. Not only because of the violence, but because of the misogyny behind the shootings that no one seems to talking about."

and goes on about the mysogyny displayed in the killings, and then goes on to reproduce the email that was recieved.

Oh it's terrible that Jessica got that email, of course...does one more person saying so make a difference? I simply wondered if anyone has given any thought to why these things occur...that is unreasonable in your opinion? I didn't parrot 'Oh how terrible' and that constitutes thread hijacking? I'm sorry that that's all you saw in my post...

Don't lose hope. Feminism is a basic human right. Like breathing.

This idiotic, mysogynistic poster clearly knows he can't stop women's progress so he is trying to be as shocking as he possibly can.

But please heed Andrea who posted today at 1:01pm. A good computer forensic expert with the FBI or your local police department should be able to locate the IP address on his account and if he can't be arrested, at least you can begin the process of documenting his harrassment.

A good computer forensic expert with the FBI or your local police department should be able to locate the IP address on his account...

And wouldn't it be great if they sent a female agent to have a word with him?

Hmm...I stated I was a pacifist, and that I believe that attacking someone who hates you not for who you are but for what they percieve you to be is not only morally wrong but fruitless, as it won't change their mind or make them hate you any less--and got compared to Hitler. Or at least a Hitler apologist. Wheee!

Way to beat that strawman. Nice effort. Good form. Bit of a stretch, though.

Admittedly my point might have gotten lost in the wordstorm, so I'll attempt to articulate it more clearly:
Point A) In a world of however-many billion people, it's statistically impossible to have everyone agree with you. Some will hold views you disagree with mildly, and some will hold views that you find starkly repugnant. You don't have to like any of these people, or try to change their minds (which is likely to be a futile endeavor in cases of folks like our email-writer here). You can think they're jerks, or mentally ill, call them assholes, or fantasize about smacking some sense into them. This is all normal.
Point B) It is not normal, or acceptable, to actually act on the desire to beat the shit out of them, or to murder them, or to go out (like our friend in Amish country) and rape, torture and/or murder some other people you've never met just because, in your mind, they are "all the same" as those people, and "the cause of all my/the world's problems."
Point C) The scenario in Point B seems to be cropping up a lot more these days, and I personally feel US culture is partly to blame, because it advocates violence as a solution far too often. (Torture Bill ring a bell?) I pointed out that some commenters' apparent willingness to suggest a violent solution as their first response may be indicative of how this attitude has permeated our thinking. Beating this guy up wouldn't accomplish anything, and to suggest doing so as a solution is, in a sense, kissing cousins to the sort of thinking that led him to write such a deplorable email in the first place. Not the same, but akin to it. Like a drop of water is made up of the same stuff as a tidal wave.
Point D) I was in no way suggesting that anyone saying, 'I'd love to kick that misogynistic, venom-spewing emailer's ass' is planning to actually do so. They are clearly in the acceptable realm of Point A, and not (as I fear the emailer is) in the scary realm of Point B. Further, he set the stage to aggression with his unprovoked attack. If I or anyone here were attacked by this guy in person, I would fight to defend myself, and would hope everyone else would do the same. I'm not opposed to necessary violence or self-defense, only to pointless violence being advocated as the go-to solution to every problem, or as a means to express one's frustration. There are other solutions, like reporting him to the police/FBI, which would accomplish something, like getting him off the street, in therapy, whatever. In short (I know, too late!) I'm not saying anyone is wrong to have the urge to take someone like this and give them a good shaking, or whatever--I'm just saying if that's what we consider a good solution, maybe we should pause to examine why that is, and what might have influenced us into thinking so. Because logic seems to suggest otherwise.
As for the Snakes on a Plane reference, I liked it. Me, I'm waiting for the low-budget sequel: Rats on a Bus. ;)

Hi, Vervain, sorry if I misrepresented your viewpoint. When you said you were a pacifist, I thought you meant you were opposed to all violence in principle, even violence used in self-defense. Others I've know who identified themselves as pacifists have indeed argued that using violence to oppose Hitler was wrong.

As for Rats on a Bus--I think I've been on that bus.

I think one of the key things here is that it's not just a matter of men hating on women; there are men who spew equally violently crazed language at blacks, poor people, frat boys, non-frat boys, etc, etc. I hate to dis on my own gender, but there is a sub-section of men who are prone to making these kind of disgusting, violent threats, and they just need an excuse.

When I was in college, I managed to anger one of the fraternities. (It's a long story which combines a romantic rivalry and my writing of pro-life letters periodically to the college newspaper, which was basically controlled by said fraternity) Among other things, they spraypainted 'John Biles Must Die' on the Road in front of their frat house and began calling me in the middle of the night on weekends to drunkenly rant at me about how they were going to shit down my throat, split my skull, ass-rape me, etc, etc. Pretty much the man-on-man violence equivalent of the threat you were sent. The Campus Police were pretty much useless as I couldn't prove who was behind it, and eventually, I just stopped answering the phone after about 11 PM and they eventually stopped. (Thankfully, they never actually tried anything violent.) But I spent a long period of time pretty damn jittery about it without being able to get any help.

There are some guys who are just too prone to spew ultra-violence talk. Whoever irritates them get hosed down with it. A lot of them won't go any further than talking unless they're drunk; the ones who don't need alcohol are the really dangerous ones.

If you can track these monkeys down, I wish you more luck than I had, as pretty much all I could ever do about it was try to avoid walking past that frat house at night (hard to do when it's between your dorm and the rest of campus) without my crew. Probably they're just ranting morons, but it never hurts to be cautious.

Good luck and God Bless.

I guess I technically got my first online death threat when I was 15. Another local teenager sent an angry FidoNet netmail message (anyone remember those?) that concluded: "And now, DIE." At one point, he and a buddy showed up at my house and said hi, very friendly-like...and ostensibly just to show that they knew where I lived. I never connected the two incidents at the time, but in retrospect I probably should have been scared out of my wits. I know I'd take it all a lot more seriously now.

We actually got to be friends later, but then he never threatened massive, graphic violence against me. "And now, DIE" didn't scare me that much, and when my mother ended up on the phone with his father about an unrelated matter, I didn't even relay the threat because I realized, after hearing his father for a few minutes, that the guy was extremely aggressive and just _looking_ for something to nail his son about. When the kid threatened suicide a few years later, I called his BBS to "talk him down." I don't know how serious he was, really; maybe not at all, maybe he was playing with my head. But he never gave me troubles of any kind after that.

But then he had absolutely nothing in common with the nut who sent this email. More like him was a guy I ran into on IRC once and chatted with over a period of a coule of months, a teenaged self-proclaimed satanist who sounded so miserable that I felt sorry for him and became his Internet-buddy. Big