i didnt see that headline, but the article was the same ol same ol. blame the women for uh...not being men? the article, to me, seemed to say mens ways of getting off were the norm and that women had to strive to get to that norm in order to get off like men.

im always annoyed with articles saying "women need all this to get off, no woman can have sex like a man!" because ive never needed much foreplay and can get off on intercourse alone in just a few minutes.
oh that reminds me, did you notice how she stressed MOST men (not all) but used the word women (implying all) when exlaining things that definatly arent the same for all women?

"No animal has to commit to a relationship to lure the female of the species into the nest."

I've completley changed my mind. I had no idea how bad I had it being married and all.

Animals a SOOOOOOOO lucky! They're awesome! They get to sleep around and never have to deal with those nagging, emotional females! Because the only reason to be in a relationship is for the fucking. Am I right? Ha ha. Of course I am.

Relationships are for girls. Unless the girls have a relationship with each other, then Jesus wants them dead.

Whew. Closed that loophole.

Is it just me or does anyone else, after reading tripe like this, get the feeling that these sorts of things are written by two-pump chumps, or for two-pump chumps to make them feel not so bad about being two-pump chumps?

I mean, the whole thing sounds like "oh most women just can't enjoy sex boys, so it's not your fault and there's not reason to try anything else."

How can I email ABC to tell them I think they're idiots? I looked, but I couldn't really see any place to voice my opinion (other than the message boards, but I'll be damned if I'm signing up a username with ABC just to call them assholes).

Actually, I think I may be too much of a scientist, but this

"No animal has to commit to a relationship to lure the female of the species into the nest."

was the key tip-off to me of the total crapitude of the article.

One -- aren't we animals?

And two ... ummm ... even excluding humans, how does the author know that no other animals make commitments? Is the author Doctor-frickin'-Doolittle that she knows for sure that the male's committed nothing to get some female of the same species into his nest? Does she have some idea of whether experiments were done to test this hypothesis?

... and three, I'm not a biologist, but I seem to recall that both wolves and hawks mate for life.

i started to read this, but when it became obvious that their top source was Jenny McCarthy's new book, i just got tired.

Wow, that's totally insulting. I like how they say that women need a "context" in which to be sexual and concentrate on sex whereas men are "wired" to be goal-oriented and only concentrate on sex. Could it be that men are just acting in the "context" of a society that encourages male sexual pleasure and discourages it for women? Of course not - it's just how we're "wired." I also like how they talk to a sex therapist who says most men want more sex - yeah, I'll bet that's true of most men seeing sex therapists.. Crimony sakes.

...and four, don't the majority of male animals have to do elaborate dances, build huge elaborate nests, sing louder than all the others just to procreate ONCE? In the animal world if you're not an earner you don't get laid. Ever. Yeah, lucky them...

I guess I wouldn't be all that against natural selection: You're a Republican? Can't do the electric boogaloo? Where's my nest, motherfuker!! No nookie for you! You die out...goodbye!

Wow, that's totally insulting. I like how they say that women need a "context" in which to be sexual and concentrate on sex whereas men are "wired" to be goal-oriented and only concentrate on sex. Could it be that men are just acting in the "context" of a society that encourages male sexual pleasure and discourages it for women? Of course not - it's just how we're "wired." I also like how they talk to a sex therapist who says most men want more sex - yeah, I'll bet that's true of most men seeing sex therapists.. Crimony sakes.

im always annoyed with articles saying "women need all this to get off, no woman can have sex like a man!" because ive never needed much foreplay and can get off on intercourse alone in just a few minutes.
oh that reminds me, did you notice how she stressed MOST men (not all) but used the word women (implying all) when exlaining things that definatly arent the same for all women? - elektrodot

Indeed ... she really should have said "most women" ... or even better "many women". Indeed, many of us men often need a little foreplay to, er, get in the mood, and not all women need so much foreplay.

Still, the total anti-scientific crapitude of the article aside, at least in my (very limitted) experience, I've never, er, known a woman who could get off on a few minutes of intercourse ... but maybe I'm just a bad lay?

"No animal has to commit to a relationship to lure the female of the species into the nest."

They just have to build elaborate shelters (bowerbirds), parade themselves in front of the females to prove they're in peak physical condition (peacocks), bash their heads together repeatedly (deer, bighorn sheep), beat the competition to a pulp (elephant seals, horses)...etc, etc, etc.

Yeah, animals have it easy.
(Unlike the author of this article, who apparently has never cracked a book in their life--or even turned on Animal Planet. Sheesh.)

I like how they say that women need a "context" in which to be sexual and concentrate on sex whereas men are "wired" to be goal-oriented and only concentrate on sex. Could it be that men are just acting in the "context" of a society that encourages male sexual pleasure and discourages it for women? Of course not - it's just how we're "wired." - yellownumber5

Putting on my (pedantic) scientist hat again: given what we know of brain plasticity "how we're wired" and the effects of social expectations are not mutually exclusive explanations -- it's possible for social cues to affect brain wiring after all.

*

Another interesting point, FWIW, re: female sexual pleasure ... in many animal species were mating requires some degree of skill, finesse and technique on the part of the male, the males will practice mating with each other ... don't know quite how this'll relate to the discussion at hand, but thought I'd mention it.

Also, I don't know what all this generalization about "men" wanting sex all the time, and not needing any foreplay to get in the mood, etc. etc. is. It sounds like they're taking 18-year-old boys as representative of men in general.

Judging from the purely anecdotal experiences of myself and my friends, once men get to be around thirty, it is not uncommon for them to need foreplay, to sometimes not be in the mood, for the spirit to be willing but the flesh to be weak, etc. I think that this idea that men can get it up at a moment's notice no matter what, may be fairly harmful to a normal man's self-image when he hits his late 20s, early 30s.

I would offer an intelligent critique of that article ... IF the article warranted such a high level of thought. That article was just dumb.

"You're a Republican? Can't do the electric boogaloo? Where's my nest, motherfuker!! No nookie for you! You die out...goodbye!"

LMAO.

Yes. This article was total bunk. I too am not one of those women who need a lot of foreplay to get off and I actually enjoy penetration (TMI? I'm not sure). I know it's not that for a lot of women but really, the so called sex therapist (had she been of any merit she would have pointed out what we're all saying instead of agreeing with Jenny McCartney for fuck's sake)fails to take into account social conitions, which someone has already pointed out, that women have been browbeaten for hundreds of years that we AREN'T sexual and yet, if human females weren't naturally sexual then why all the fuss to keep them from having something they don't "naturally" want?

The female orgasm was natures way of having a woman gauge how tentative her partner was to her needs and it helps a lot in conception (though I really, really wish that conception was totally dependent on female orgasm, we'd have a much better place and a lot less assholes). And I agree that this is just a way of trying to tell women, "You're not like men so stop trying." Not that having an orgasm has anything to do with trying to be like a man in the first place. This makes me like the post about the foreign women demanding orgasms all the more better.

What a brutally bad article.

Seriously. I mean, this isn't even worth the trouble for me to critique. It's just stupid.

Cheers,

TH

yellownumber5, you took the words straight out of my mouth. We *all* need context to enjoy sex. It's just that men get a hell of a lot more of it from everyday life.

Stupid ABC.

I used to buy into this. My first two sexual partners really had to work at getting me in the mood, and often I'd just go along with it for the hell of it but not really enjoy myself. I really thought that I wasn't supposed to enjoy sex or want sex or orgasm because I was a woman.

Of course, I've been enlightened since then through more than sheer experience but then I was introduced to passion. This partner didn't want boring sex so he could get off... he was passionate and firey and energetic and wooo-ee. Even if I'd tell myself that I was in a bad mood and had no interest in sex, he'd show up and /I/ was the one that leapt on him.

If a woman is disinterested in sex... maybe she is just disinterested but, (at least this is how it was for me) she's just bored and doesn't even know it.

No amount of position changes and foreplay can change this, imo, if he lacks that firey energy about the act, where is the fun?

I can see how women wouldn't be interested in a mechanical "get the job done" sort of intercourse even if you love the person and it feels nice. Then again, what hot blooded person is? If you want to blame women for "thinking" too much in bed, blame the men for making them so bored that their minds wander.

Man, what a lame article. I'm usually the one who likes it fast! LOL

Oh, I couldn't enjoy sex because my poor little mind was just working, working, working... wait, you're naked? Woohoo...

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Is the author Doctor-frickin'-Doolittle that she knows for sure that the male's committed nothing to get some female of the same species into his nest?

Yes, DAS, she is Dr. Doolittle. Actually, it should be Dr. DOlittle. DOlittle really describes everything about this article. She's done little research, put litle thought into what she wrote, and ultimately, this article itself will have little impact on our society (I think). I wonder what exactly it was she wanted to achieve by writing this article? Did she hope to change all of our minds about sex? Way to fuel the fire. Anything else you plan on sending us to get riled up about and laugh at? I could sure use some hilarity.

It always amazes me that a "news" organization can write an article like that with absolutely no facts. The opinions of a celebrity and a pop-sex therapist are not enough to make those kinds of statements. The worst thing is that there are plenty of people who will read that and take ABC's word for it. Aaarghh.

This reminded me of what my psyc teacher said. She was saying that men think about sex WAAY more than women. I told her I disagree. I know that I think about sex a lot!

Judging from the purely anecdotal experiences of myself and my friends, once men get to be around thirty, it is not uncommon for them to need foreplay, to sometimes not be in the mood, for the spirit to be willing but the flesh to be weak, etc. I think that this idea that men can get it up at a moment's notice no matter what, may be fairly harmful to a normal man's self-image when he hits his late 20s, early 30s.

For what it's worth, I'm 18, and I think the whole coitus-only idea is stupid. I don't think I need foreplay to get an erection, but that doesn't mean I find foreplay-less sex interesting.

I believe orgasms are a feminist myth. No woman I've ever been with has reported having one of these "orgasms", and if a woman can't get off in 45 seconds then it just ain't gonna happen. The only women who really seem to enjoy having sex with me are prostitutes. They always tell me what a stud I am and how they can't wait for me to come back. That is, they say that right after they invariably throw up. And brush their teeth. And shower. And douche. And change the bed sheets. Then burn the hotel room.

That article's a bit spesh. Who knew that to find out about the sexual behaviours of all women as a whole, all I had to do was read a 'news'article by ABC?

And here was me thinking that
a) People of both sexes had wildly varying attitudes, behaviours and reactions around sexual activities and,
b) Broad, sweeping generalisations of any kind based on gender were all but meaningless.

How wrong I was.

I have a minor question for John: in your all-inclusive individual what's the difference between 'getting off' and having an 'orgasm?' I was led to believe that they were sort of synonymous.

That article's a bit spesh. Who knew that to find out about the sexual behaviours of all women as a whole, all I had to do was read a 'news'article by ABC?

And here was me thinking that
a) People of both sexes had wildly varying attitudes, behaviours and reactions around sexual activities and,
b) Broad, sweeping generalisations of any kind based on gender were all but meaningless.

How wrong I was.

I have a minor question for John: in your all-inclusive individual experience, what's the difference between 'getting off' and having 'an orgasm?' I was led to believe that they were sort of synonymous.

That article's a bit spesh. Who knew that to find out about the sexual behaviours of all women as a whole, all I had to do was read a 'news'article by ABC?

And here was me thinking that:
a) People of both sexes had wildly varying attitudes, behaviours and reactions around sexual activities and,
b) Broad, sweeping generalisations of any kind based on gender were all but meaningless.

How wrong I was.

I have a minor question for John: in your all-inclusive individual experience, what's the difference between 'getting off' and having 'an orgasm?' I was led to believe that they were sort of synonymous.

The phrase 'have sex like a man' always annoys me. It's always used to mean 'have the best sex possible' - but who's to say women DON'T enjoy it and have it just as well as men? Why is 'male' sex so much better than 'female' sex?
Just tell tham how much more sensitive the clitoris is to the penis. That always makes 'em wonder.

Chase:

They are synonymous. The joke is that since I cum in 45 seconds and the women I'm with never do in that brief period (which I nonethelss claim should be long enough) then I draw the very ignorant conclusion that orgasms simply don't exist. Couple that with my implied sexist beliefs and repugnant appearance and laughs abound, at least hypothetically. It all looked good on paper. Not funny when explained, but maybe it wasn't that funny in the first place. Back to the funny board.

John ... I thought it was funny in a Jesus' General, manly and heterosexual, sort of way ;)

According to the romance charlatans, women have sex to keep a man. In truth women are discuraged from enjoying sex. All percived differences are cultural and can be changed. The ABC article has not a shread of evidence and the opnions are from people who have no clue about sex. I know that women can enjoy sex, for some who were conditioned for sex to be a task need to wake up and empower themselves. That will take some work

John, I used to say that the reason intelligent design theorists don't use the female orgasm as proof of their theories is because they don't believe it exists.

Cheers,

TH

Actually, the female orgasm is fully explicable in modern evolutionary theory (it's like the male nipple, in a nutshell). Don't worry - no political movement has never let its own disbelief in the existence of anything stop it from attacking any perceived inconsistency on the other side.

Uh, Alon, that was a joke... :P

Cheers,

TH

They also did a special on 20/20 explaining all of the "differences" between a woman's brain and a man's brain. Including the "fact" that men can't hear all the tones of a woman's voice and so THAT is why they don't listen. HAHAHAHA!!! So now the running joke between my husband and I is that he didn't hear me because of the tones of my feminine voice. (OF COURSE it has nothing to do with the fact that he has lost 50% of his capability to hear in one of his ears). Sheesh what a crazy, hysterical woman I am for even THINKING that!

I also have to say, off topic, that I just found this site, and I'm so very happy I did.