He has to save it up to properly punish her, Tony Danza style.

Specifically, it seems he gets it up when he needs to get her to ignore the fact that he is cheating on her.

In a nod to another currently ongoing thread, I note that he seems to think this makes him a "real feminist".

I read Liz Jones' article. This is exactly why I never got married. Giving up my independence to be treated like that? Forget it.

After being single for years (I'm 30) I've started dating a lot again. However I'm finding that I prefer time with myself and with friends to spending it with men (in the romantic relationship sense). Many of my femalfe friends are experiencing the same difficulties as Liz Jones. Perhaps it's time we rethink the goal of dating and coupling off as being the natural and desirable condition. Men are just too much trouble and don't really give much in return that I can't already give to myself or get from my friends, cat, or career .

We need a crew. A pack of angry but good-humored feminists (the Feminist Poetic Justice League, eh?). They would all show up wherever Nirpal and his buddies hang out. Then they would proceed to read his wife's essay aloud and ask him about being a real man. Holy crap this guy is a dickhead!
Reading her part of the story made me very sad. I wish she would stand up for herself.

Now if there's one sure fire way to ruin a marriage, it may be to write publically of all the details and then allow friends, family, and complete strangers to critique. It seems to me that he was getting back at her for some of what she wrote about him (whether he read it directly or just heard about it).

Yikes, I don't think I like Liz Jones much more than her jerk of a husband. She had one date while the rest of the girls in school "was off having abortions"? Uh. She's almost as passive-aggressive as her husband is. Although her apparent lack of self-respect is sad.

Her marriage is evidence that the best plan is to make oneself happy and to find happiness in as many ways as possible: career, hobbies, friends, etc. and not just seek it from a man/spouse/partner.

Thank you, C. I was trying to think of how to say that myself.

AnnieCat - it's true that you exchange your independence for interdependence when you marry. That needn't be quite *this* horrible. It helps if your spouse isn't an utter asshole. It helps even more if you aren't so desperate to have a husband, any husband, that you make ultimatums to a man 11 years your junior and believe that you "blood well won't" find anyone better than said utter asshole.

Oh, my. What horrible people they are. What could possibly go right in their relationship? She's devoting herself to a miserable marriage in order to write a weekly column about her miserable marriage?

This has got to be among the top 10 worst relationships of all time. But it shouldn't be taken as the rule for what happens if you marry a man.

2 key lessons to avoid their fate:

Build up your own person so you can retain your sense of self while participating in a shared life.

If you're going to marry, marry a feminist.

(Sorry to tie back to the argument about whether men can be feminists, but seriously all of the likable men I know are feminists.)

StephanieAnagnoson:

Oh, I dunno. It's worked quite well once before, and if the FAQ is to be believed, they're still happily together after fifteen years.

That guy, though, obviously has brains and a sense of humor.

In her article, Jones said:
"He married me because he...wanted a nice lifestyle."

'Nuff said. Manly Man married his wife because he wanted someone to pay the way, and he wanted that someone to not be him.

I can't think of a more miserable existence. I'd feel a little sorry for her if she wasn't dishing up all this misery for herself.

A la Dan Savage: "DTMFA!!"

I started to say they deserve each other, but what came out instead was Oh, that's so horribly sad.

Wow. I can't even begin to describe how disgustingly sad and pathetic such an existence must be. I can't decide who is worse: the husband who passive agressively dismisses and dominates his wife, or the woman who believes that spending two years with this asshole has been WORTH something.

I am speaking as a 22-year-old woman who is very much still on her honeymoon (been married four months), so I understand that I am extremely naive compared to a Sex-and-the-City-type woman, but "having a man around" does not have to be like this. I'm not even sure Liz Jones counts as that kind of woman... from her brief description of her single life, it sounds like she spent most of her life working and then going straight home to watch TV in a pore strip...

I'm sorry, I find myself feeling very critical of this woman, and on some level I feel like I have no right to be. It just seems like this type of marriage is what comes out of a rather sad combination of isolation and desparation. Maybe the question should be why was she so isolated to begin with?

Well, I got a few years on you--I'm probably closer to the age the Sex and the City ladies were at the start of the show--and I can't imagine what Jones is thinking. I mean...I've been single, on and off, for years. It's really not that bad. It certainly beats the hell out of being married to scum.

If you're going to marry, marry a feminist.

(Sorry to tie back to the argument about whether men can be feminists, but seriously all of the likable men I know are feminists.)

That's not something too many women can do, since there are more feminist women than men. Individually it's sound advice, just like it's sound advice for a male geek to marry a geek; but collectively, there are bound to be problems.

well, i read Liz's column. i got through all of it and came away thinking "how sad for the both of them."
then, i tried to read the tripe that Nirpal published ("women love men who tell them to shut up"...blah blah bull...). i just CAN'T. i've tried to go back and read though all of it, but my brain goes into seizures. what an ass he is! oh, and i LOOOVE the part where he confides about his infidelity. (grrr - i have no respect for cheaters)

"I needed to let her know what she would be missing if we broke up for ever. I gave her a manful bravura performance that night, and at the height of her passion, I asked her: ‘Who’s the boss?’ The question threw her. Initially she wouldn’t give me a reply, but I enticed it from her. ‘You are,’ she finally gasped. ‘You are!’"

...i couldn't read anything past that. this guy thinks that his wife RESPECTS him for CHEATING on her because she said "you are"?!?!?! no, dimwit. she wanted to come and she wanted you to SHUT UP! men like this guy have no clue. dude, she didn't tell you what you wanted to hear for YOU. she was finally getting laid!

The relationship that they have both described is not marriage, unless it is a marriage of two miserable attitudes. Initially, I felt sad for her as well. But then, I came back to my belief that you make your own happiness. And obviously, it's not working for them.

As far as marrying a feminist, yes, they're hard to find, but so very worth it if you do. I didn't even plan on ever getting married, but was fortunate enough to stumble onto a male feminist who I wanted to be with for the rest of my life.

Jeez. The man genuinely disgusts me, the woman just depresses me, but they can both use oodles of therapy. The only silver lining I can find on this is that the man's outright hideousness as a human being might be what pushes Jones over the edge and teaches her that she actually does have a backbone buried down there after all. I'm sorry to say that I see no hope whatsoever for the man. His cruelty in publishing the article--never mind the ideas behind it, but publishing the article to begin with--tells me that misogyny isn't his only problem.

Her article reads to me like classic "enabler" thinking--like she knows he's treating her badly, but feels some security in holding on to this anchor and can't bring herself to let go of it and come up for air.

And I have to say, folks, that as a single feminist man I smile every time I hear a woman talk about waiting for a feminist. I'm waiting for a feminist, too. One day I reckon I'll settle down with one, but for now it's enough to just be a positive, non-abusive, non-exploitative young male presence in the lives of my friends.

Cheers,

TH

First of all- reading her article, I would have thought she was JoJo the Dogfaced boy or something. She's not bad looking at all. Or fat. So I don't get why dude was calling her "Chubby"- I'd "DTMFA" in a second if anyone had the gall to call me that. Not to mention the fact that he'd quite certainly be walking away with two less of something than he came there with. He's an ass and she's just pathetic. Eek. I'm just glad they didn't adopt- how dysfunctional would that kid be?

It is a dangerous game to blame her - it is really along the lines of blaming rape victims.

Sure, she is silly and deluded in some respects, but 'society' has been bombarding her with messages of marriage and happy ever after etc since she was a toddler. Who can blame her to think that way with THAT amount of brainwashing?

HE on the other hand, is to blame. Because despite his brainwashing of priviledge, jerkdom is always a choice.

He is an abusive partner. It is Domestic Violence, even if he hasn't hit her (YET).

My ex-husband was cast from a similar mold. My ex seemed an ideal new-man before marriage, housework without request, attentive, etc. Ring on finger changed that over night. The physical violence did not start until I tried to extract him from the house. Thereafter, it was 18 months of trying to stay alive, as he had decided he wanted to kill me in order to get the house. Because he just didn't like working (he only worked half the time during marriage, despite my protests 'nagging').

Don't think that because you are intelligent, or a feminist, that you can't get caught up in a relationship like this. (Read Sandra Horley "Power and Control - why charming men make dangerous lovers). Sandra Horley is the Director of Refuge here in the UK.

But even my ex wasn't stupid enough to pose a question such as 'who's the boss?'

"Sure, she is silly and deluded in some respects, but 'society' has been bombarding her with messages of marriage and happy ever after etc since she was a toddler. Who can blame her to think that way with THAT amount of brainwashing?"

I'm sorry but everyone is bombarded with messages from society all the time, but at the end of the day, we still have to take responsibility for our actions. Stupidity, like jerkdom, is a choice. Choosing to marry someone who's an obvious jerk just because you can't find anyone else and feel the urgent need to marry someone, just ANYONE (which she basically flat out says in her articles) is very, very different from being assaulted. You never choose to be assaulted, but you definitely choose who you marry (at least in our societies). That's why I really don't see how you can compare blaming her for her spinelessness with blaming a rape victim.

It is very true that certain people are very good at deception and only reveal their true nature later on. It can be a boyfriend, a husband or just a friend. You can be 100% sure that he (or she, for that matter) is a very sound person until the mask starts to slip and it can be a very big surprise indeed. But from what she says, it doesn't seem like he was hiding his jerk nature at all. And the worst part is that she seems to be aware of it...
I really think she needs professional help.

I'm hoping against hope that the couple are both writing a pack of lies for fame and fortune - preferably under each other's names - and in truth enjoy a respectful, loving, sex-packed marriage.

If, as is far more likely, not - dear God. "He wasn't afraid to be seen in public with me"? That's the standard an educated, successful woman sets? That's all a man's expected to live up to? There are not swearywords enough.

She reminds me too much of how I felt during the lonely periods in my life for me not to feel sympathetic to her (I have a hard time not feeling sympathetic to lonely people).
That being said, I'm perversely cheered to realize I have never entertained the idea of marrying someone just so I wouldn't have to be single.

y'all need to check out zed's link up there...

really. absolutely hysterical. there's one entry about fighting about him going into town - she wants to know why and he doesn't want to tell her, says he's going to get pizza.

after the fight gets really intense, he tells her: he was going to get her a suprise valentine's day card and mail it to their house.

he goes anyway, after he tells her and she tells him not to go.

the end of the story:

And, indeed, I do go to town, buy her a card, and post it. Inside I write, 'Surprise!' She gets it on Valentine's Day and says, 'Thank you,' to me, through gritted teeth. (She gets me one too, by the way - it reads, "I'm not interested in a nice, normal relationship... I like ours better.")

really funny stuff...

mind you, that's zed's link... not these sick, sick folks, dhaliwal and jones...