"...as long as that involves putting things in their bums."

Sick! (Not a fan of Tristans work)

I consciously work to create images that contradict (and hopefully challenge) other porn that represents women only as objects and vehicles for male pleasure.

So what, the women will be in control and the men will be objects of female pleasure? That’s nothing new its called femdom, or does she just mean putting more plot and attention to development of characters, that’s been done, they don’t sell very well.
It would seem she believes her product and ideas are superior just because she is appealing to women, instead of being tolerant of the male product and just introducing something new, she seeks to destroy and smear the mens product, labbel it pathetic, while having her product touted as superior.

Intolerant, hypocritical and superior minded. This is feminist porn indeed!

(no one has been stopping women from making porn, no man complains about women’s porn or gay porn, no man tries to impose his will on these industries, why cant feminist take a lesson from men in general and learn how to be tolerant of other cultures?)

"So what, the women will be in control and the men will be objects of female pleasure?"

Ummm, no. How on gods green earth did you jump to that? Your logic is not our earth logic.

I think that she is proposing scenarios that are mutually pleasurable to those involved, where there is no strict gender based control over anyone, where everyone, male and female, is expressing, desiring, and engaging in pleasure consentually *together*. In one moment the female has more control, in another the male, but in general it is about two people engaging in respectful connection together, instead of one person being a prop, no matter what sex they are.

"Personally, I think any porn that does not have at the very barest minumum 100% condom and oral-barrier protection for the performers is disqualified as "feminist" for the inherent lack of safe sex depicted"

I would have to disagree. I think in order for it to be feminist, it would have to be completely at the choice of the people involved in making the porn itself. But maybe that is just because I wouldn't enjoy or make any porn with a barrier method for oral on a female because I think it's unnecessary. I would rather have performers who can choose what kinds of risks they are willing to take in their sex lives. Some people look at the risks of catching an STD from going to on a woman as inconsequential and I would hate to start mandating to anyone that they *have* to start doing something when their personal preferances disagree. Thats how we get right back into scripts, the mandates on what kinds of poses you must and must not do, and what kinds of "stunts" you have to be able to perform to do porn. Humans in their real lives can make decisions about what kinds of STD management they want to use with a partner and I don't see taking that kind of self determination away from someone because it is porn and not "regular" sex as feminist.

Oh Hujo, I wonder if indeed you are not a troll, but similar to a small child who needs things explained over and over and over again. Nobody is "smearing" what you rub one out to every night. In fact, we really don't give a shit what turns you on.

The thing is, mainstream "anything" isn't very special to begin with. Do you remember when I compared Playboy to McDonalds fodder? Read Anthony Bourdain's chapter on fast food from his new work, and it's so easy to substitute mainstream, "regular guy," porn in place of the fast food chains. Basically, it damages the imagination of lots of men, resulting in dull, artery-clogged, "fat fucks," in terms of their sexual development.

For instance, I don't listen to Top 40 crap on the radio because it's...crap. Call me a snob, but I have pretty awesome taste in things all around, porn included. Are you saying my disdain for fast food and mediocre music is due to a lack of "tolerance?"

If Mickey D's is doing it for you, then keep on keepin' on with your bad self. The rest of us are just tired of seeing the golden arches on every fucking corner. We're sick of the same "big dumb porn" peddled everywhere, and just want our tastes given equal time.

Most of the people that I know who are into Playboy, would prefer Wendy's to McDonalds.

(Perhaps that includes the Kerry's?)

"I think in order for it to be feminist, it would have to be completely at the choice of the people involved in making the porn itself."

Everyone makes choices, but not every choice a person makes is a feminist one. Safe sex is a feminist issue, especially so regarding the basic health protection of sex workers.

"I would rather have performers who can choose what kinds of risks they are willing to take in their sex lives

I'm not a libertarian so I disagree with the belief that employees should be responsible for self-regulating their safety instead of that responsibility belonging to business managers.

Your conflation of 'their sex lives' and 'their personal preferences' with a mass produced product sold into the global pornography market for the purpose of making money is not accurate. As Ludacris in the post above demonstrates, it's easy to blow a lot of hot air about "totally being for the empowerment of women for sure" while not actually changing a damn thing. It's Marketing 101 to trash the products of your competitors while holding yours up as superior, but so far all the examples of so-called feminist pornography I've seen are just the same old things repackaged to sell to women, kind of like how Playgirl was never genuine 'entertainment for women' despite the marketing pitch.

Humans in their real lives can make decisions about what kinds of STD management

Agreed, but humans in their real lives are not videotaped fucking for the profit of pornstitution industry others and given awards for their performances in Toronto conferences. That's the pornstitution industry, not regular human sex.

The average legal German prostitute in a brothel "services" 20-30 men everyday. It's theoretically possible these women might find it a good time to fuck 20-30 men they've never met before in a day without getting paid for it, but come on. The pornstitution industries are not real human sex, they are what happens to sex when capitalism perverts it into a money-making, mass produced product.

Im not really sure where you are going with the bit about German brothels, Ive just seen a lot of porn. And I would love to make some feminist porn, but I would never make porn with barrier methods on oral because I dont believe in it... personally I think it is silly, unnecessary, and ruins the whole experiance so why bother. I think there is room in the world (or one could say in the market if we want to talk about capitolism) for different kinds of porn because people are individuals - both those watching and those participating.

I see nothing feminist in blanket statements that remove individual agency and treat women like porcelin dolls who must be protected from themselves because they cant be trusted to make a decision. For some women porn is just a job or prostitution is just a job, for some it is not. I think that we should have room at the table for both and for self determination.

that seems like a great definition of feminist porn. whether it's sexy or not to a given individual woman is a separate question.

For another good documentary on the subject, see "Made In Secret"

Jane
Here is my problem, I think porn for women is lame, boring, poorly acted; the sex scenes are dull, lack excitement and dirtiness. I also think porn for men is cheesy and void of any content other than sex. I use pornography simply to be visually stimulated so I don’t need the frills, story and character dynamics, judging by the market most men agree with my outlook. The difference is men are not trashing and calling down women’s porno or gay porno, they are electing not to watch it. I am sorry but when feminists are saying that straight male porno needs to be “challenged� I cant help but roll my eyes at the hypocrisy, as feminists preach tolerance of sexual preferences and turn-ons, I thought. I can’t help but think it might just be jealousy for not being able to compete with the male market.
I truly believe NO ONE is stopping women or feminists from creating porno, so why be intolerant of or hostile about the other kind of porn when they are NOT standing in your way.Why say that straight men are idiotic for not watching gay male porn. Why even try to destroy or challenge straight male porn at all. Why not just support the industry you like and leave the other style alone? I am sorry but I can’t think of any other words or reasons besides jealousy of industry success and intolerance of men in general.
It just can’t be divided up like they try to do here. Its porn! Men and women are going to get naked and have sex on film either way so if it’s a black and white film and there is a 10 min predictable, boring lead up introducing and developing character dynamics and setting mood before the woman gets naked and has sex on film it is more acceptable and superior than opening up with a girl having sex on film? Uh huh, They are both going on the same shelf or to the same store, for the same reasons. I am not saying female marketed porn is a bad idea but a good one! Obviously there is a need,I am only saying it’s a bad idea to try and make porn political. Yes not that you would want me to, but, I would call myself a feminist if lines like these had not been crossed. I believe in tolerance of sexuality and culture. I think feminism has become more about tolerance of all sexuality and cultures, except for straight males. I don’t want to believe that feminists are intolerant of straight men but I can’t help but see this as yet another example it is constantly reinforced.

Feminist don't like striaght male sexual culture, so what?
Rednecks dont like
lgbt sexual culture, but I thought the key to these things was tolerance?!?

My advise to these filmmakers would be to just try and outdo male porn w/ product, NOT hypocritical politics that would stand against straight men and women's choices to make porn that appeals to straight men.
They ARE free to have their scene and i suppose they are free to "challenge" so why am I am not free to argue that challenge?
I don’t know why I am branded a troll or a man-child or censored for having an opinion. When these titles are presented and these actions preformed, I cant help but think that feminists aren’t entirely true in their claims of support for men breaking free of male patriarchal molds, in my experience it seems feminists actualy only support men that fit male feminist molds.

Actually Hujo, you're sentiments are unfounded and not based in reality.

Actually they are expressed outside of needles academia.

I consciously work to create images that contradict (and hopefully challenge) other porn that represents women only as objects and vehicles for male pleasure. (Emphasis mine)

"Raunch" "art" are matters of opinions, this is the statement i am taking issue with, as well as JANES argument that women want their own kind of porn, given fair time.
The time is there, if the will is there, and if the product is good, the market will be there , I see the challenge as pointless and hypocritical.

It is my experience that female porn is more plot based, I am arguing women should make more and better porn for women, I would probably like her work, see I have no problem with any legal consensual porn, if I didn’t like it though, I wouldn't challenge it.

Umm could you delete my response to the truths now deleted post? It is just wierd now.

Why was my post deleted?

There was nothing in my post that couldn't be found within 6 degrees of seperation on the internet from the post itself.

In a nutshell, what I said was...

Tristan's porn is quite Raunchy.

Since Dana DeArmond is in Tristan's "top 8", I surmised that Dana DeArmond is a feminist porn star.

Dana DeArmond is ranchier than Tristan's porn is.

Perhaps feminist porn is raunchier than regular porn...

...was my conclusion.

Basically, I was saying, Hujo, check out Tristans porn...FEMINIST PORN BE NASTAY!

Right, but then I said in my deleted post, that’s cool, but what then separates feminist porn from regular porn that it would get the feminist label? Besides the marketing power of the feminist label of course.
I suspect this opinion may have been the reasons for our posts being deleted and most likely the same reason these two will be deleted as well. (Could you also get my last two before this? just for continuity. Thx!)

WHICH IS EXACTLY THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED THE LAST TIME THE TORONTO FEMINIST PORN CONVENTION WAS MENTIONED!!!!!

I SAID "WHAT IS THE DIFFERANCE" AND PEOPLE SAID I WAS AN IDIOT!

Clearly, people don't know porn like I know porn, and when I saw Tristan's work before I saw her name checked here...in no way did I associate her work (or even conclude that it was a female behind the camera) with the feminist movement.

With the exception of her porns featuring men being sodomized by women...(which are usually marketed towards gay men and not women)...I don't even know now how I would know she's a feminist porn director without someone telling me that.

That confused me before, as it still confuses me now...AND PEOPLE SAID I WAS BEING IDIOTIC BEFORE!

LOL, Well The Truth hurts some people!! LOL

Insults are the tool of those without argument or the cowardly. Some say an honest man in our time is a fool.
I dont think so.

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