Maybe they just framed it strangly... I think what they meant is that a lot of women prefer strategic "thinking" type games and men tend to gravitate toward action.

The use of the word "casual" probably has more to do with the time commitment involved. Sure, you could spend several hours playing tetris, but you would play about a thousand complete games. The "non-casual" games they are talking about require something like tens or hundreds of hours of play to complete. And from what I can gather, the majority of people playing games of this second type are indeed men.

Semantic side note: when gamers themselves refer to a game or gaming, they actually are not including something like tetris or bookworm in that category.

I'm skeptical that women play tetris and not Warcraft because they don't like violence or competition, but it is not true that violent or competitive "action" games necessarily require no strategic thinking. A lot of violent games based on war scenarios, for example, require quite a lot of strategy. Whether these are more prevalent than brainless shoot-things-and-try-not-to-die games, I have no idea.

I would have interepretted the finding that women are playing more "casual" games to that they have less time to sit around and start a 1-2 hour game session, which many of the violent and supercompetitive games are best during. I guess you could say I've slipped into playing casual games, because the games I used to play turned into such a time sink it interfered with the rest of my life. Plus it's easier to just sit down and play a flash game on the computer at the spur of the moment than have to gather enough people in one of the multiplayer competitive games and go through a run with them.

Utopian Hell is the go-to feminist gaming blog. Here's a recent post:

http://utopianhell.com/blog/women-gamers

Thanks!

Personally, I own a Game Cube and a Nintendo DS because I really like playing video games. My favorite are Mario games, which I wouldn't call "casual." However, I do not like games that other consoles, Playstation and XBox, because I'm not a big fan of pretending to run around with a gun and killing and steaing and picking up hookers.

I didn't think the article was particularly sexist, but I like the description of Tetris as "simple." If it were the other way around, how much do you want to bet that we'd be hearing about how men like Tetris because it challenges their superior spatial and mathematical skills?

I don't consider myself a hardcore gamer, because I'm also a grad student and don't have a large amount of time. I suppose it's a matter of perspective. This article would consider me hardcore because I spend a few hours most nights playing World of Warcraft, but according to most people I would be considered a casual gamer because my shaman isn't wearing epic gear and I don't have Onyxia down to farm status.

Anyway. Personally, I enjoy strategy games like Civilization and Final Fantasy Tactics as well as RPGs and MMORPGs. I don't like first person shooters very much, because I typically end up playing with 12 year old boys who play it obsessively and use it as a tool to measure their e-peens. I'm primarily attracted to the character development aspect of MMOs/RPGs - learning how to play the character effectively and equipping them with leet gear is fun. The MMO aspect is nice because then everybody can see my leet character and I can play with my friends who live far away. The pvp aspect of World of Warcraft can be fun, but I don't do it much because of the 12 year old boys.

Tetris is pretty simple. You do the same thing over and over.

My boyfriend will play a game in every free moment for months. He's definitely not as competitive as I am - it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't get bored.

It's not real, people! Why would I want to invest hours of my life into solving fake video game problems when there are so many real ones to worry about?

I'm a girl gamer and I enjoy a variety of different games. I'm also highly competitive... and so are my other female gamer friends. We play fighting games like Tekken and talk shit just like boys do.

Terrible, terrible stereotype! As a woman who plays alot of video games in her spare time, I get terribly offended when people imply that that women only like games when they're 'casual' or 'non-competitive'.

The most addicting games for me are the most competitive games, especially those that allow me to compete directly with my friends and people I like. There are alot of games which are considered "casual" party games like Guitar Hero, Mario Kart, DDR which break outside the norms of the industry (as far as marketing, design, gameplay) which I find hugely entertaining and addictive BECAUSE they allow for ample competition. (At least for myself and many of my female friends)

Oh, and lets not even get started on World of Warcraft...the PvP, gearing, it's all competitive, and it's entirely the reason why I love the game.

I suspect the "casual" term comes from a company viewpoint. The male gamers they're citing are buying/ constantly investing in games. The games the women are playing have been out a long time... and many are free.

I suspect they denigrate that game type, because there's so much less profit in it for them.

As a (male) gamer, I have to say that the article's headline is misleading. Someone who plays only things like Tetris and Bookworm isn't a 'gamer'. They are someone who plays games. And those games, at least in my example, are awesome.

Of course, there are a lot of female gamers. And not just the bullshit corporate ones either. Go to PAX and you will see all kinds of gamers, many of them hardcore female gamers. They tend to be of the video sort. Not a lot of them playing Warhammer, although I'd imagine you'd see a bunch at the card games. Haven't been in that scene in a while.

And as for the competitive thing, I'd say that's crap. Many of those casual games are variants of games we all know, Scrabble, Boggle and the like, and they are played against other people. And many, if not most of them playing are women. Plus, my sister totally rocks at the Heroes of Might and Magic games. She can totally kick ass, and anecdotal evidice is everything:)

I hear the violence thing a lot, have no idea how true it is. My wife, who is a casual gamer (my XBOX 360 is often tied up with Bejeweled), likes to watch me play other games, and has no problems with the violence. I have a feeling it's a generational thing, where boys grew up with GI Joe, and girls grew up with My Little Pony. I have a feeling it'll start to change as more girls are empowered to enjoy whatever it is they want to enjoy.

It's not real, people! Why would I want to invest hours of my life into solving fake video game problems when there are so many real ones to worry about?

You spend 100% of your waking hours solving problems? You have no hobbies?

You spend 100% of your waking hours solving problems? You have no hobbies?

You don't spend 100% of your waking hours solving problems?

As an example, I'm a PhD student in Mathematics, and my non-school activities are primarily WoW, feminism, and occasionally playing some music.

That sounds an awful lot like all of my waking hours go to dealing with some kind of problem, and that's exactly how I like it.

Many of those casual games are variants of games we all know, Scrabble, Boggle and the like, and they are played against other people. And many, if not most of them playing are women.

When I hear statements like this, I don't hear that 'women like casual games', what I see is that there IS an interest from women for competitive gaming.

I really wonder how many women would play the more "serious" games if it wasn't completely established by the industry that serious gaming a good 'ol boys club. Breaking through a wall of "12 year old epeen" and having to deal with sexism isn't something that women usually want to do in their free time, regardless of how fun and engaging the game is. I don't know about you, but generally I like my escapism to be into a world that welcomes me, not explicitely tells me I'm not welcome.

I'll be honest, the game consoles cater mainly to first person shooter and sports games. They really don't have a good selection of any other genre.

I have both a PS2 and XBox. I've thought about buying the Xbox360 but I can't justify the expense when the choice of games is so limited to two specific genres that I don't even care for. I play mainly PC games again.

Go to PAX and you will see all kinds of gamers, many of them hardcore female gamers.

I feel a little ooky whenever someone brings up PAX as a "hey, look! There are female gamers!" because while there were many highlights of PAX '04 for me, many of the 'gender moments' I had at the con stand out in my mind as why I don't buy certain companies games (ubisoft) and dislike being identified with and participating in gamer culture. (although, I apparently continue to do so.)

Being at a convention which is supposed to welcome and celebrate all people who like games and hearing over the intercom all day "Come play games with REAL LIVE GIRLS!!" (the Fragdolls) really didn't make me particularly feel welcome, nor did the implication that women playing games were somehow a spectacle worthy of near continuous announcements. Add to the announcements their identical outfits, the dudes that were encouraged to spend all day trying to beat these women (hey, power structures anyone? Women offered up for men to dominate?) The complete objectification of these women along with the conventions total endorsement of it, sent a really strong message about what a "female gamer" is and I found the whole thing to be quite hostile.

For me, attending PAX '04 was an excellent example of how the culture that has risen around gaming completely excludes women, objectifies women, and is hostile to women, even though most women I know really like to play games. I've never experienced a gendered aura around Settlers of Catan. You do experience it anytime a video game marketing team gets invovled.

Of course, I wasn't at PAX '05, and hopefully I'll be at PAX '06 to pick fights where necessary. The more games I play, the more I need to start carving out some turf.

I love Tetris and Minesweeper, plus RPGs... Not a big fan of competative games because I take them way too seriously and get very pissed off when I'm losing! :)

But Tetris is awesome, it was the first video game I ever owned and the only one I still play regularly to this day... wish I still had my old gameboy version.

I'm a casual gamer; the only long-term game I play is Civ3, and even then my usual M.O. is to play for about 20 minutes, save my game, and resume it later. I think that's what's meant by "casual gaming"--gaming that, contrary to most of the stuff on the market, doesn't require a huge time investment or huge learning curve.

The culture of "hardcore gaming" also tends to be very macho, with more anal penetration metaphors than an Exodus Ministries reunion class.

Although many women love the proverbial smell of napalm in the morning, I'm sure that, statistically, time-intensive killemall games are more popular with boys than girls. So is UFC; so is pro wrestling; so are kickboxing flicks. I don't see this as an enviable thing.

Cheers,

TH

When I hear statements like this, I don't hear that 'women like casual games', what I see is that there IS an interest from women for competitive gaming.

Which was my point. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

You don't spend 100% of your waking hours solving problems?

As an example, I'm a PhD student in Mathematics, and my non-school activities are primarily WoW, feminism, and occasionally playing some music.

Nope. Sometimes I vege and watch a movie. Or play a game that takes no problem solving abilities whatsoever. Or go out and enjoy a long dinner with my wife. Unless you consider deciding what to eat problem solving.

I feel a little ooky whenever someone brings up PAX as a "hey, look! There are female gamers!" because while there were many highlights of PAX '04 for me, many of the 'gender moments' I had at the con stand out in my mind as why I don't buy certain companies games (ubisoft) and dislike being identified with and participating in gamer culture. (although, I apparently continue to do so.)

It's not meant to be (in my case, anyway), a hey look! moment, rather just an, umm, well a see there are. If that makes any sense. It would be stupid to believe that there aren't problems with the way women are portrayed\percieved in any area that is dominated, at least in public (the realm of the 'hardcore gamer' in this case) by men. Thus, the distinction between stuff like the Fragdolls and female attendees in my original post. I've met a number of female gamers at different PA events. And I can't see it as anything other than good for the gaming industry. Nothing like diverse tastes to pull the industry out of a rut. The two best things about the 360 are Achievement points, and the Live Arcade.

I went home for Christmas shortly after Katamari Damacy was released, and my goal was to hook everyone I knew who would pick up a controller. 'Home' in this case being Indiana, where the family are, actual home is Seattle. The game was easy to find, which was contrary to my experience in Seattle. The clerk at EB Games said it was the first copy they sold, 'real gamers' don't want to play girlie games with no blood. I believe words like 'cultural backwater' were used. I think he might have been angry with me after that. Anyways, I managed to hook everyone who touched a controller on that game, even several who originally made fun of it for being childish or girlie. Not sure what the point of that is, but it was certainly a high point in my gaming career.

Back to the moniker of gamer, even considering my previous thoughts on it, it shouldn't fall into the 'True Scotsman' fallacy. Anyone who considers themselves a gamer is a gamer. I know many gamers who have never touched a video game, or at least never got into them. Sometimes we bother with distinctions, like board gamer, card gamer, tabletop gamer, LARPER, and the like, but the truth is, given the opportunity, many of us are gamers of one sort or another.

In my case it's a combination of all of the above...I don't have a lot of hours to lay on the couch wasting my time wandering through a scenario or story line someone else has cooked up. I like games that engage the other part of my brain--patterns, spatial, etc.--because my problem-solving brain needs a break. I prefer games that I can zip into, play a bit, and dodge back out without feeling like I've left a universe hanging. And I definitely stay away from games in which women are targets, trophies, etc.

Role-playing bores me...the only exception I can think of is one night when a bunch of us rented Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters and flattened every city available while trying our flying ninja monster moves on each other, heh heh. (How about something that pits all the classic Universal monsters against each other, and you get to wreck a drive-in?)

Personally, I think a lot of the reason women aren't so attracted to 'serious' games is a combination of macho culture among people who play those games and the subtle to not-so-subtle sexism within the games themselves. It's the same way with action and horror films: when all the female characters are either 'helpless waif (in revealing outfit)' or 'dehumanized badass (in revealing outfit)', women generally aren't going to find it as entertaining as men.

Basically, women are less likely to be impressed when you skimp on decent writers and invest in animators that can make a pair of DD boobs bounce as obviously as possible.

The real question is which gender/sex prefers Civilization - the best game ever.

It sucks up tons of time, but it isn't violent or particularly competitive. IT also isn't boring or simplistic. I think it skews heavily male with younger people, and then evens out by age 25 or so. I haven't played a single game like that since I got to Law School, but it's stellar.

I went home for Christmas shortly after Katamari Damacy was released, and my goal was to hook everyone I knew who would pick up a controller. 'Home' in this case being Indiana, where the family are, actual home is Seattle. The game was easy to find, which was contrary to my experience in Seattle.

That's so funny - I recently moved from Seattle to Nebraska, and I had no trouble finding Katamari Damacy in the Emerald City....but no one out here in Lincoln has even heard of it, and the stores don't stock either of the titles. (I had to wait a whole week for Amazon supersaver on We Love Katamari, ugh!)

I've been passing it around friends like some sort of crazy treasure.

It's the same way with action and horror films: when all the female characters are either 'helpless waif (in revealing outfit)' or 'dehumanized badass (in revealing outfit)', women generally aren't going to find it as entertaining as men.

Well, exactly what other characters are possible in conflict-driven narrative? Characters in such stories are either heroes, villians, or victims. Nobody else is relevant to the story.

I mean, sure, you could have a game where the main character was introspective, damaged, complicated, and ineffective; but who would play such a game? The player character would be pointless and unable to be identified with.

First-person shooter games make me nauseated, quite literally. Unreal Tournament, Doom, Half Life, Counterstrike - these are all out for me because they give me motion sickness.

But let me play NWN or Diablo, and, well, yeah.

I get a tiny bit competitive...

As a male gamer, I don't believe women are any less competitive than men. In fact, as in many areas, such as law enforcement or military service, women tend to be forced to be even MORE competitive, just to fight the bias. I also think that most people aren't even aware that female gamers EXIST.

Most of the male gamers I know tend not to be the most suave or well-groomed of sorts, and so predictably they tend to run in large, disorganized bachelor packs (see LAN PARTIES), where female gamers are the minority.

How did I escape this problem? I married the non-gamer, and learned to put down the controller every once in a while. Worked wonders.

I love gaming, and I love being able to indulge my competitive, agressive side through PvP and PvE battles. I am in an all-female guild on World of Warcraft, and I am here to tell you those women are just as comptetive as the male players, and just as fascinated with weaponery, gadgets, and tricked-out equipment as any man. Anyone who doubts that should spend a few minutes reading the guild chat logs!

I was introduced to gaming when my husband bought me Tomb Raider many years ago, and I now hooked. I love it. And I believe that it has helped me in areas that I was a little weak in, like spatial relationships and hand-eye coordination. BUt mostly I enjoy the challenge and teamwork of group play, and the joy of kicking another player's ass in a duel.

You spend 100% of your waking hours solving problems? You have no hobbies?

Yes, I have hobbies. I even play games sometimes. I just get bored after a while, because they're not real.

Please note that I'm not saying that if first-person shooter games were real, I would be interested. But if, say, I had to find real items in a real maze in a certain amount of time, it would be more challenging and interesting for me.

Generally quite a benign personallity, totally non-competitive: in context, that means my desire to achieve has nothing to do with my opponent/s. BUT my desire to "win" at video games started long ago and had/has everything to do with surpassing, annihilating & totally obliterating my opponents ie my children ... I was not, will not be, relegated to the past.

A different pyschological component altogether.

It's the same way with action and horror films: when all the female characters are either 'helpless waif (in revealing outfit)' or 'dehumanized badass (in revealing outfit)', women generally aren't going to find it as entertaining as men.

Well, exactly what other characters are possible in conflict-driven narrative? Characters in such stories are either heroes, villians, or victims. Nobody else is relevant to the story.

Uh, how about female heroes who kick ass in something other than a leather bustier?

I'll be honest, the game consoles cater mainly to first person shooter and sports games. They really don't have a good selection of any other genre.

Um, this isn't really true at all. . .
There's a wide variety of games out there, and some are more sexist or targeted towards men than others. Console RPGs are probably the most popular games among my female friends.

A lot of the women in the age group they're talking about probably are casual gamers. Most stay-at-home Moms I know have very active internet social lives, which also includes a lot of online puzzle games, but I don't think most of them would actually consider themselves gamers at all, because they don't identify with any of the various gamer subcultures.

On the other hand, there are many women, both young and old, who very much identify with a gaming subculture, and their numbers and influence are consistently growing. You're more likely to find them playing World of Warcraft than Unreal Tournament, and they tend to like Final Fantasy a bit more than Grand Theft Auto, but there are exceptions to that, too. I don't think it makes their gaming experience any less "real" or "hardcore," but it also doesn't mean they're selling out to a sexist subculture. We're just subverting it in a direction we prefer.

The thing really sticks in my craw about the response from that senior analyst is the assumption that women aren't competitive and we're too squeamish to handle any sort of "violence" in games. Personally, I enjoy a good puzzle game or adventure game as much as the next person, but nothing satisfies me as much as the fast pace and challenge of in-game combat.

It continues to puzzle me that game manufacturers are in such denial about the number of women who use purchase their products. It's like they are so brainwashed by the concept that only males in certain age bracket game that they can't change their mind-set no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary. Or maybe they just simply do not know how to market to women, because they don't bother to ask or consider what women want.

I'm male, married, 45 years old, and have been a pretty hardcore gamer since 1996. Perhaps my perspective would be useful. Maybe I'm stereotyping but my wife likes computer games that women typically seem to like and I like games that men typically like. She really enjoys the Yahoo-type flash games like Text Twist and Bookworm as well as classic games like Tetris and Mah Jongg. These are the types of game that I think the author of the article is referring to when he/she talks about "casual" games. I don't think the term as used is meant to be belittling in any way. And I'm not sure any assumptions can be made about the competitiveness of women based on their gaming choices. Yes, the games are simple and "casual" simple simply because they didn't take a development team 2-3 years to make and they can be played for short periods of time.

I've also found that women enjoy playing "adventure" games just as much (if not more) than men do. These are highly immersive games such as those in the Myst series. But adventure games are the bastard child of the industry and are barely a blip on the radar in terms of overall industry sales. And Yahoo flash games don't even show up on the radar.

I'm sure that women make up a good portion of those who play MMORPGs such as EverQuest. These are online-only games involving many different people playing cooperative or adverserially in and adventure-type setting. But MMORPGs don't make up that large a segment of the gaming industry either.

"Real" games, using the term as best I can based on the state of today's gaming industry, are those games that take 2-3 years to develop, take millions of dollars to produce, make millions of dollars and are marketed very heavily. The common theme in most of these games is unadulterated action, violence and realism. Almost all of the big money-makers involve combat of some type or are military-based. Based on my involvement in gaming communities, I've found that the number of women involved in these types of games to be extremely small.

One of the games I'm playing right now tells you to, in effect, execute the terrorists whom you've shot and are on the floor incapacitated. This is actually standard protocol for terrorist-fighting organizations as it prevents them from getting back up and shooting you in the back. Also, the game rewards you for headshots. Again, this is a real-life protocol from real-life organizations. These things don't add to the desireability of the game to most males but do add to the realism - something very desirable in a game. My experience has been that the number of women who are interested in games like this is very, very small. I don't know if my wife's reaction to my playing these games is typical but when I play them she refuses to even be in the room. And my wife is by no means a prude.

But today's games are not really violent for violence sake. It's just that combat is the easiest thing to simulate in a computer game. It's not pure violence that attracts men to these games. It's the incredible ability that games offer to partake in competitive combat. For me personally, it's the chance to be a virtual hero. One of today's very popular games is SWAT 4. In this game, you are actually rewarded for arresting criminals and are penalized for shooting/killing them. Even without wanton violence, it's a very popular and successful game.

So to summarize, many women play video games. And if you include every type of computer game, it could be possible that more women play than men. Many of these games are quite competitive and require strategy and great amounts of analytical thinking. But the games that women play, for the most part, are not the life blood of a mega-zillion dollar industry. When the term "video game" is used today, it really means a game with extreme realism where one can take on a different personality and partake in actions that one would never do or have the chance to do in real life - even if that means just being heroic.

I love to play FPS, and it took me a long time to be able to admit that! I agree with so many of the different viewpoints expressed in these comments, but I wanted to throw my two cents in that although I love the FPS games and am not all that turned off by the violence (to some degree), I do feel like I am not welcome within the gaming world, because of the way my gender is portrayed. I do understand that most FPS games are representations of past military exercises, and therefore most women aren't going to be portrayed in a major role, but even the other FPS games, such as F.E.A.R, Painkiller, DOOM, and Wolfenstein that aren't military in nature, or at least combine some military with the supernatural, only feature women in, once again, scantily clad outfits with thigh-high boots that no self-respecting gunner would be caught wearing to run around in. Women certainly aren't featured in a protaginistic, partner sort of way. (I do have to give kudos to FarCry and Max Payne, although not a FPS, for featuring strong, capable women). Although I love these games and am as competative as the next male, I do have to admit I get tired of having only one gender featured. I don't think men truly understand how tiresome this can be in the gaming world. I think it is a catch-22: I want to play more "real" games, but there is not a whole lot out there that represents me and my gender, so therefore I don't buy as much. Money talks, therefore the game engineers feel women are not interested (in at least FPS and "violent" games) and don't engineer games geared towards women. Then the cycle starts all over again.

Bitch magazine did a great article on this topic in their #30 Fun and Games issue. "Beyond the Valley of the Geeks: Notes on Gender and Gaming" by Jacqueline Lalley. She actually mentions that the best selling PC game The Sims was created by a 60% female team at EA. She also links developing problem solving skills, abstract reasoning, pattern recognition, and spacial logic - all crucial in the math and science fields - with gaming and why it is so important for females to get involved in gaming. She also states that the climate may be changing. There is now a Women in Game Development Special Interest Group that promotes gender balance and equity in the field.

I stay miles away from the clear cut misogynistic games such as Grand Theft Auto 3, but so does my husband, who actually got me involved in gaming. To us, it's more of a humanity thing than a gender thing. We're not into "violence for violence sake" entertainment. But, call us sad, we love to hook up our computers at the end of a long day and battle it out!!!

I love to play FPS, and it took me a long time to be able to admit that! I agree with so many of the different viewpoints expressed in these comments, but I wanted to throw my two cents in that although I love the FPS games and am not all that turned off by the violence (to some degree), I do feel like I am not welcome within the gaming world, because of the way my gender is portrayed. I do understand that most FPS games are representations of past military exercises, and therefore most women aren't going to be portrayed in a major role, but even the other FPS games, such as F.E.A.R, Painkiller, DOOM, and Wolfenstein that aren't military in nature, or at least combine some military with the supernatural, only feature women in, once again, scantily clad outfits with thigh-high boots that no self-respecting gunner would be caught wearing to run around in. Women certainly aren't featured in a protaginistic, partner sort of way. (I do have to give kudos to FarCry and Max Payne, although not a FPS, for featuring strong, capable women). Although I love these games and am as competative as the next male, I do have to admit I get tired of having only one gender featured. I don't think men truly understand how tiresome this can be in the gaming world. I think it is a catch-22: I want to play more "real" games, but there is not a whole lot out there that represents me and my gender, so therefore I don't buy as much. Money talks, therefore the game engineers feel women are not interested (in at least FPS and "violent" games) and don't engineer games geared towards women. Then the cycle starts all over again.

Bitch magazine did a great article on this topic in their #30 Fun and Games issue. "Beyond the Valley of the Geeks: Notes on Gender and Gaming" by Jacqueline Lalley. She actually mentions that the best selling PC game The Sims was created by a 60% female team at EA. She also links developing problem solving skills, abstract reasoning, pattern recognition, and spacial logic - all crucial in the math and science fields - with gaming and why it is so important for females to get involved in gaming. She also states that the climate may be changing. There is now a Women in Game Development Special Interest Group that promotes gender balance and equity in the field.

I stay miles away from the clear cut misogynistic games such as Grand Theft Auto 3, but so does my husband, who actually got me involved in gaming. To us, it's more of a humanity thing than a gender thing. We're not into "violence for violence sake" entertainment. But, call us sad, we love to hook up our computers at the end of a long day and battle it out!!!

(Caveat: I am not a gamer. I worked for a video game company for 2 years.)

"Casual Gaming" is an industry term that refers to what are called "lunchbreak" games: Pogo.com, Bigfish.com, zone.msn.com, real arcade, Yahoo! games, etc. Tetris, solitare, word whomp, jewelbox, etc. These games are primarily played by women 30-45 and they are IMMENSELY popular. This isn't sexism, this is actual demographic fact. They are often played during slow times at work, in the evenings, etc. Many of these games have chat rooms built in (bigfish & pogo specialize in this) and many women use them for socializing with other women their age.

There are female RPG/FPS gamers, but until the industry stops thinking that RPG/FPS games are "real", and everything else is "fake", and also stops hiring almost all men at every company, they are likely to stay at about 25% of hardcore gamers (10+ hours of console gaming/week).

Gaming culture is ultra male and ultra homophobic (try hanging out in a FPS session and see how often people call each other "fags" and "girls" as insults). Plus, according to demographic research and my own anecdotal experience, many girls grew up gaming and then stopped when they were about 12-13 (for many girls, this is when social life takes over, while this is the time span where many boys are obsessing over stuff like playing guitar, taking apart motorcycles, learning to code, etc.). So if I, for example, play a game against a guy my age, I will have about 15 years less experience on him and he'll kick my ass. Twitch gaming (FPS) is extremely dependent on highly skilled hand/eye coord that requires hours of practice; this isn't something you can just pick up in an hour or two. It really does take years to get really good at video games.

I think if the industry was 50% male employees and 50% female employees, and not just in marketing/HR either, then we'd see some different games, or just different gaming environments. I went to E3 three years ago, and it was literally 80% men and of the 20% female 10% of those were Booth Babes wearing bikinis. Every man I met treated me very strangely (I was running our company booth) and I am very used to being in all-male spaces. Gaming culture is just not enlightened, period. It has a loooong way to go.

Okay, I consider myself a feminist, and I work for a women's organization, and I consider myself a gamer. Maybe I'm not being true to my "feminist ideals" but I like combative and FPS games like Halo 2 and dead or alive. I also play sims and bejeweled from time to time. And I like racing games. So, this generalizing about what "women" like always pisses me off. But I do agree with most of the posts that playing with misogynistic and homophobic boys get's under my skin and definitely makes gaming less fun for me. Especially in Halo2 when these assholes use words like "raped you". I think the gaming community has a long way to go, and it will be hard to change things until women are in the programming/writing/& producer seats. Generally, women aren't encouraged to get into tech fields, and espeically not game development. So that's what will make a difference I think.

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"Uh, how about female heroes who kick ass in something other than a leather bustier?"

Bruce Lee kicked everybody's ass in Enter the Dragon in nothing but a pair of pajama bottoms. And you've never noticed how in fantasy movies, the hero never fights in a helmet? Conan the Barbarian kicked James Earl Jones' ass in nothing but a furry jockstrap.

Seriously, what on Earth would make you think that improbable costume choices is a female-character-only phenomenon? Tunnel vision, maybe?

But I do agree with most of the posts that playing with misogynistic and homophobic boys get's under my skin and definitely makes gaming less fun for me. Especially in Halo2 when these assholes use words like "raped you".

Absolutely 100% right-on. The largest barrier to women being more interested in games is the fact that a great many social gamespaces simply don't have a culture women are interested in being a part of.

But why would they? A lot of guys are using video games because they're socially awkward and outcast. If being comfortable around women and approaching them as peers was something they were good at, they'd probably be a lot less interested in games. A lot of these female-unfriendly gamespaces are the way they are because they're designed to be awkward-teenage-male-nerd-friendly.

I just wanted to address the misogynistic/homophobic crticism of today's gaming. Please note that when you hear about proclamations such as "fags, girls or raped you", realize that these words are most likely being uttered by boys not men and by those who are most likely still in grade school. And these are the same words used by mid-schoolers as part of their "normal" communications with each other throughout the day.

Behavior like this is not tolerated on servers where young adults (and older) play and such behavior often results in expulsion and permanent banning from said server.

In actuality, alot of the behavior in online games has more to do with respect and camraderie and even leadership and some mentoring.

Sure, there is the stereotypical behavior on games with young boys but we should not use that scenario to generalize about male gaming as a whole. As long as their is an "admin" present, it is rare that disrespectful behavior of any kind is tolerated. I know I sure don't!

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I can't believe it, my co-worker just bought a car for $42457. Isn't that crazy!

I am a girl gamer, and I liked FPS until I found MMO's. I have played EverQuest, EverQuest II, and World of Warcraft.

I also play games on pogo, I don't like yahoo too much, but I have subscription on Pogo. I also have NES, Sega, SuperSega, and PS2, Thinking about getting the ps3 but I dunno. I prefer PC games over console games.

I don't like to play really violent games mostly because I can't stand violence for violence sake. But I enjoy PVP and PVE on WoW and in EQ. I also pick up titles like Myst, 7th Quest, Morrowwind, Diablo 2, and lord of distruction.
I guess I am considered hardcore. My favorite though is definately MMO's. The complexity, the social aspect and the addictiveness I can't stay away. If I start to play too much though I tend to leave for a month or two. Addictive personality. :)

But yeah I can't stand the boy mentality. I can't stand being hit on, and stalked.
and to Gary up thread, I have reported behavior like that before (many times) and nothing is done about it tyvm. They just get another account and come back.

I am very competitive, and I try to keep it from becoming personal. hehe But that sometimes doesn't work especially in PVP. *grin*

I hate the sterotypes I get slapped with as well, and I believe they meant "casual" as in games like pogo and simms, and things like that, not real intesive playing games.

I would love to see a game where the female is the hero, and she has to complete quests, and puzzles and things. But I doubt we'll ever see something like that.

Girls outnumber boys in gaming? bullshit. the study looks at 25-34 year olds. most gamers fit in the 10-24 category. Around 25 is probably when men start to become more interested in other things.

Jack, the post clearly states the age range in the first line, so I don't think it is pretenting to say anything it's not. Maybe that is the point however, that women like these things later on in life then boys do.

I wonder if the author feels that chess and go are 'casual' games. Seems more like 'girl gamers' are attracted to strategic games, and less towards visceral violence. But, saying that requires some meager analytical skills, which we all know are lacking in jackasses.

Anyone who thinks women aren't competitive haven't sat in on one of those Yahoo real Mahjong games. I used to play there a few years ago, and it was occupied by about 80% women and 20% men. We'd often set up two tables, to play four FULL rounds. That's about a good six hour commitment especially if we decided to start with 6 or 9 fan.

I've been gaming since the days of Pong (had an Atari in the 70's) and I've been female since the day I was conceived. My lover and I have in our household, two PS2, two xbox, two macs and one pc. All are meant to be gaming devices (the macs and pcs do more, but primarily they are our entertainment units). She plays Asheron's call and WoW, I play WoW. We both like to collect badges on Pogo. She is much more competitive than I am; I just love to play games.

I agree with the person who said most head to head competitors on hardcore games like FPS are teenagers. Trust me, nothing irks more than the language of teenaged boys, especially when you're a gay woman and so I tend to not play with them.

As for competitiveness, I see me as competitive with myself, that is, I compete with my best scores/results. I play a lot of PVP in WoW, which is considered competitive, but to be honest, I tend to be comparing yesterday's results with the day before's, seeing if I gained more honor for less kills and I love the teamwork aspect of the battlegrounds.

Does anyone have any video game recommendations? I am a huge fan of Fallout and Fallout 2 and zombies. However, I hate first person shooters passionatly. I'd rather have a godlike view of the action. Anyway, does anyone have any advice? This would be for the PC.

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