You know: people other than women get objectified in commercials, too. But that statement would get dismissed here as 'whining'. So why should this commercial arouse any ire? You can't have it both ways.

Wow, there's some logic: as long as other people get treated poorly, we can refuse to discuss sexism.

Nice attempted distortion, chum.

If you can restrain your knee-jerk snarkiness for half a sec, I'm saying that if you're going to accept the peculiar position that sexist portrayals in commercials exclusively hurt women, then THAT in of itself is a form of sexism.

If you want to discuss sexism, then don't use sexist presuppositions as your starting point. Duh.

This strikes me as a bit hypocritical given that fashion shows and magazines depict braless women. These are directed at a FEMALE audience. Where's the outcry over THAT?! But that's different, I guess

Myth, you know that a woman's place isn't to make jokes. It's to shut up and listen.

sto: "if you're going to accept the peculiar position that sexist portrayals in commercials exclusively hurt women, then THAT in [and] of itself is a form of sexism"

What in God's name are you talking about? The post says nothing about "commercials;" it concerns a specific commercial that's clearly a sexist portrayal of women.

Please point out these "peculiar position" and "sexist presuppositions" that you describe, because it seems to me that mythago's summary of your comments is pretty darn reasonable.

I'll file this in the "wow people are way too sensitive/need a sense of humor/need to chill out" dept.

So am I sexist if I found that slightly amusing? You can laugh at things and they don't have to be sarcastically labeled "lovely." Perhaps, it would seem. But if that makes me sexist to find it funny, then these must also. Here is a list of things I have found very funny, and yes - things that (gasp!) acknowlege that males and females have different anatomy. And don't say "one is an advertisement and the other isn't" or "one is in a movie and one is on public tv" - because I personally saw 1, 3 and 4 on TBS and I saw #1 and #4 in the commercial advertising those movies, and I guess since I have seen the Producers on broadway 3 times, and each times EVERYONE laughed at #5, they're able to laugh at "sexism" too. Plus, the movie version of #5 has been on AMC and WB11. So, based on comments above, here's seemingly proof that I am sexist, anyone who also found these funny is sexist, the writer of these scripts are sexist, the actors and actresses are sexist for "playing along," the directors and all people who financially supported these productions are sexist (or do I need to file myself in that "dept" above as well? Perhaps. I'm only kidding around, as I think I proved the point that you can laugh at these things and not be sexist):

- Gregory Hines in "History of the World, Part 1" with the feather going up during the Eunich-dance scene (almost exactly the same idea as this commercial)

- Shannon Elisabeth in American Pie, the webcam scene, when poor jim, as stiffler says, "fired his missles too early" (i'll probably never be in a theatre audience that will laugh as much as they did in that movie)

- Rick Moranis in Spaceballs "I see your schwartz is as big as mine"

- Leslie Neilsen, in Naked Gun - "Everywhere I look I seem to think of her" (he looks out the window and sees 2 nuclear power plant domes next to each other that look like breasts)

- Ulla, brilliantly played in the Broadway production of The Producers (if you haven't seen it, Ulla is the character that, to quote lisa simpson, has an endowment bigger than harvard, and this is the exact source of the following joke): (Ulla: Gut da, por day!
Leo: Uh, I beg your pardon?
Ulla: Gut da, por day!
Leo: Ah, gut da! Max (whispers), have you gone mad? A receptionist who can't speak English? What will people say?
Max: They'll say, "A wuma wa wa wa wa!")

Way to jump to conclusions, james. Not one person has implied that people who laugh at sexist things are themselves sexist. Whether they are or not is a good question, but that question is not answered in this post--which, I must point out, is not about "all sexist humor" any more than it is about "all commercials"--or in any of the comments.

Stop accusing people of believing something when you have no idea whether or not they really believe it. It makes you sound hostile.

(Also, I suggest that you not tell anyone that they need to "chill out." Insted, learn how to handle the reality that not all people have the same sense of humor that you do, and just because you think something is funny does not automatically make it funny.)

The irony here is that this ad is targeting women as the consumer, not men.

"So am I sexist if I found that slightly amusing?"

No. You're sexist for other reasons. But thanks for asking. And please calm down about the small dick jokes. No one meant you personally.

Hahaha! A small dick joke! Classic!

Oh, Amanda - I just saw the engagement ring comments - FYI, that's another james, not me.

But either way, I was a debate champ in college, and I indesputably win the argument by making a valid point (wheter you believe it or not, i supported my argument with empirical facts), whereas you simply starting making wildly unsupported accusations (that I'm "sexist" - why, EXACTLY, from my post did you gather this?) and the, hahaha... small dick joke. Again, it's literally splitting my sides*.

*then again, maybe you were mixing me up with the James from the other thread. I'll give ya a pass if you want it - you can apologize (that won't happen, so just retract) your comments and all would be right...

(to be fair, i was just on the debate team freshman year, but we still won). See? A retraction!

Commenting on James' long winded reply on how movies objectify male anatomy in a humorous way.

James here has shown good examples of the better way to take these kinds of commercials/movies. You laugh at them. You go, "hey that woman's nipples are cold because of that really powerful air conditioner." Then you leave it at that. It is not sexist or objectifying women; it *is* a fact of biology. If anything is sexist here it is either god or evolution for making nipples contract in cold. But, it is sexist for a man to look at a woman's contracting nipples even though it is a fact of life we shouldn't acknowledge that it exists.

I don't see why this commercial even warrented a response by this site other than to point out how "off-topic" feminism is.

You take everything the way that a sexist man wants you to, or you get accused of being a no-fun feminist who makes jokes about how someone might just be uptight about small-dick jokes made by men for men to laugh at for personal reasons that have nothing to do with systematic oppression of anyone. James, I was a debate champion, too, but I'm afraid that I saw many a man when a debate by shouting until their opponent gave up or cried. Don't drag out some small-time high school victory. That's arguing from authority, and it's not a logical argument.

A logical argument would be that all those jokes you brought out were made about fully-fleshed out characters that the audience regarded as human beings. This commericial doesn't even show the woman's face. For the purposes of the commericial, she is *just* a pair of breasts.

Also, a joke about a man's dick is usually more about the anxiety that men feel about this. It's actually okay to laugh at yourselves, even though as men you feel that you should be above that. The jokes are comparable to jokes for women about their own anxieties--take a female comedian making jokes about her own weight. Margaret Cho does a whole routine about dieting until she was hospitalized--it's hysterical. I'm assuming you're against that joke, if you think jokes about anxieties are out of line?

...i knew you wouldn't relent.

a) it was college, not high school.

b) you completely misunderstood me, again. I am NOT AGAINST ANY OF THESE JOKES! I agree with Ryan's first part - these jokes are about biological facts: women's nipples get hard in cold (the commercial), and men's penises get erect when arroused (Greggory Hines in HOTW, pt 1). So to answer your question (which you do not do to me): no, I don't find Cho sexist. I find her very funny.

c) And I never won by whinning. I always won by out-debating people, by using backed-up FACTS like in my movie references. And to out-fact you, Leslie Neilsen's joke mentioned was in the first 30 seconds of the film - no character development. And when they give random accusations without factual If you really were a debate champion, then you MUST comcede that you made the "sexist" remark without true merit.

d) I know you won't retract your statement one inch. But... I know what kind of a person I am, and some coward's* wildly innacurate statements hiding behind her keyboard make no difference to me.

* If you do apologize, then I officially apologize myself (see how this works?), as you will have shown true courage. Until then, anyone who makes unfactually-based character slanders annonymously like you deserves no less than to be called a coward (again, 100% retracted if you let me).

I really dislike these vile-filled arguments, especially about something stupid (a commercial!?!?!?). I really look forward to you-and-I settling this.

What was that about attacking character and not advancing logical arguments? Coward? For "hiding" behind a keyboard as opposed to the way you are standing up in person in front of all of us to explain your disdain for everything female? I do use my real name and no, I'm not opposed to making fun of say, people who were in college debate. *snerk*

Well, I am waiting for the hour and half follow-up to this commercial where we learn her name and see her face. So that it can be comparable to a small-dick joke.

a) You still haven't said why I'm sexist.

b) And for the record, I am a founding member of Medical Students for a Pro-Choice America. Oh, wait, I forgot - I'm such a sexist pig. I probably spent those hundreds of non-profit hours to "pick up chicks," right?

c) see "a"

I apologize for mixing you up with the solid pig with the capital letter. But simply equating these two types of jokes shows a willingness to obscure important differences in the way men and women are portrayed in the media that tends to dehumanize women in an effort to sexualize them.

Not that sexual women are bad, by any means. But it's bad when it's assumed the audience cannot take sexual pleasure in a woman who is viewed as a full human being.

ok, we're cool then. I realized there were 2 "james's," so it's a mixup. And I guess we'll just disagree on that topic though. I just don't find men's/women's anatomy jokes (nipples hardening/penises errecting) to be insulting by any means. Sophomoric? Often. Funny? Usually. Insulted? Never (that I can recall). Embarrased that I find them funny? Maybe a little. Feel bad that I find them funny? Not at all.

I can understand why someone can be against them even if I disagree with that opinion. For example, when Mel Brooks accepted the Tony for best musical (The Producers), he ended his acceptance speech with "And finally, I'd like to thank Hitler for being such a funny character - who knew?" There was a big backlash against it, but I sided with Mel. It's black humor, yes, and that's not everyone's cup of tea. He took the biggest criminal in human history and made him a 140-minute joke. I thought it was brilliant. But... I can understand why people could rightfully be sensitive to that kind of humor.

I wasn't insulted by it, really. Intellectually, I can see that the commercial functions by reducing a woman to her breasts--whether that's horrible or just stupid is up for grabs, but it's not comparable to jokes about unseen anatomy that are aimed at a character whose face is what is framed in a shot.

you hit the nail on the head... "whether that's horrible or just stupid is up for grabs" - exactly.

You think the commercial is horrible, I don't. I just don't see it the way you do (reducing a woman to her breasts). To each his or her own. I just didn't see it that way (which I suppose you'd find a good thing? since as a guy, i didn't see that as some sort of demoting-women thing. i just saw it as an entirely forgettable 2/10-on-a-humor-meter videoclip).

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