I think it is supposed to be funny, to laugh at rather than to take seriously.

Well I guess it's okay then since it's supposed to be funny and not taken seriously. Because I had really thought I was supposed to take the tank top seriously. But so long as we conform to stereotypes and giggle about it at the same time, then no harm no foul.

it's definitely supposed to be funny... but then so are jokes using racial epithets... but, really, saying "i didn't mean bad" doesn't take away that fact that this is a cog in the negative social conditioning of young women.

as far as the a&f stuff... you remember those shirts they put out those shirts playing off stereotypes of asian people?

they didn't mean bad that time either ("We personally thought Asians would love this T-shirt," said Hampton Carney,), but it was still fucked up.

let's be clear, though, there is plenty of room for comedy in this world... plenty of comedy that's not dumb and doesn't only make its way by playing off of the worst parts of us.

This is the same company that marketed thong underwear that says "Eye Candy" to children in their Abercrombie Kids line. Some jokes are just not funny.

I'd love to have an XL T-shirt with that slogan on it. I'd wear it to the next physic conference I attend (I'm male). That's the only occasion it would be appropriate, IMO.

I think the t-shirt is funny- I see it as dissing the stereotype that women can't do math, or that if you're pretty then you've acomplished all you need to in life.

What, are the you fashion police telling people what they should or shouldn't wear now? If someone wants to insult themself, I'm not gonna stand in their way. Why are you? If someone decides to wear this shirt, how does it affect YOU???

And even if a company didn't decide to market it, a creative soul could certainly go to any custom T-shirt shop and have one made.

A tempest in a teapot, for sure.

funny. i'm wearing my sohcahtoa t-shirt today:
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/browse/v0.1/design_prod.aspx?pageNo=1&q=sohcahtoa&p=storeid.14036444&id=1987307&pNo=14036444&opt=&fpt=&c=

it seems like prettiness should really go without saying.

scarbo,

the point is not that someone can wear it... the point is that it (the message that pretty girls don't do math) is being directly marketed to young women. this is not about being fashion police, it is about holding culture-producers responsible for what they produce.

considering that this viewpoint is pretty widely held (most importantly, by young women - i know, i've tutored girls who don't try because "girls aren't good at math"), to promote it is arguably very harmful.

peace out.

You know the stereotype oh so well: girls can't do math! That is why this shirt exist, and why several years ago talking Barbie said "Math is hard" HOW LOUD CAN I SHOUT BULLSHIT? Is not this the same shit attitude that the President of Harvard expressed in a speech?

As to the A&F shirt go over to http://blondesense.blogspot.com/ Blondesense Liz has a picture and some interesting comments too

Well, if no one buys it, the company won't try to sell it. They will receive truckloads of un-bought merchandise from their retail outlets. Message sent.

But what if someone _wants_ to wear it? It's a free country!

Oh yeah, then they're "propagating the myth". "Bad girl! We're kicking you out of the sistahood!"

Well, every redneck who wears a Dale Earnhardt shirt is "propagating a myth", too, but that's OK I guess.

Chill out.

"...it is about holding culture-producers responsible for what they produce."

Culture producers are you and me, babe. If you want to know why the culture is a certain way, look around you. The people you see everyday on the street are responsible for creating the current culture. Not TV, not Wal-Mart. Your friends and my friends are.

Manufacturers sell what people want to buy. Not the other way around.

So don't yell at them. Yell at the people who would buy them. But again, it's a free country...

scarbo,

your posts are a contradiction...
what's going on here is the conscious assessment of culture. if a product is produced that we, as consumers don't want out there, then it makes sense that we should rail against it.

otherwise, that message will not be sent.
there is a dynamic here... that's exactly what happened with the "Two Wongs Make a White" shirt that a&f put out a while back. asian people (and otherwise conscious people) were reviled by what a&f did and made a point of being heard. only after public outcry did a&f remove that line from their production.

if, on the other hand, they stayed quiet, saying "manufacturers sell what people want to buy" and just leaving it at that, a&f would have kept on propogating that particular negative stereotype.

promoting the kind of apathy and "don't yell at them" mentality undermines the very concept that "culture producers are you and me, babe."

check yourself.

further, i'm not sure if you understand how marketing works... it's all about creating a need/desire that did not exist before. if manufacturers and distributors relied simply on what desires were pre-existing, our modern-day capitalism would fall apart. i am a designer... everything i do is all about this.

that's why boycotting (or, as in the blondesense blog, "girlcotting") is essential to keeping the consumer in the equation. marketers tell us what we want and we, as a whole, tend to eat it up (if the marketing is smooth enough, which alloy and a&f certainly have the resources to be sure of). it's only when some consumers take a stand and say "this is crap and we're not going to buy it" and market that stand so that other consumers are made aware of the "why"s that some dialogue can be produced.

finally, do you think that "rednecks" (that term is not a good starting point because it's already deprecatory) would be happy about a&f or alloy putting out a shirt that said "i fuck sheep"? no. but, if people buy it 'cos they think it's funny, then who can blame the producer, right? wrong.

peace and blessings

Regarding the numerous catalogs your roommate gets:

Do any of them have postage-paid return envelopes for their order forms? If so, stuff said envelopes as full as possible with pages torn out of their catalogs, and mail them back. This will at the very least annoy them, and might cause them to take her off their mailing lists.

I believe this is a company that buys into the theory taht any attention they get is good publicity, so long at it makes older people and thoughtful activist types pissed off.

so far as i know it IS in fact a brand that targets frat and sorority sister airheads. SO the fact that they want to poke fun at the cherished values of others? well, I think it goes along with the mentality of the customer or image they are trying to cater too.

Scarbo, I don't think anyone here is trying to ban the shirt. I think most people here believe in free speech. But criticizing something is also part of free speech.

Remember the "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" shirts? Well, a bunch of boys protested them and I heard they quit making them. Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

Anyway, as a free market advocate, I think it's important to voice our opinions on what companies sell. What are the alternatives? 1) Stifle free speech so that NO ONE can criticize a company, or 2) push for legislation that bans something you don't like (i.e. legislate your personal views). Neither of those alternatives work in a "free" society, do they?

I too saw that shirt in the Alloy catalog. (My excuse: I can't wear women's clothing yet.) I thought it was dumb, especially since I'm pretty darn good at math. I called Alloy and told them they were douchebags and that I'm not going to buy any more of their merchandise. Why? Because IT'S A FREE COUNTRY and I can say what I want, and I can spend my money the way I want.

I just remembered one time in the band t-shirt section of the Alloy catalog the page header said, "for groupies only". Ha! As if women who bought band t-shirts were only groupies and not (gasp!) actual musicians.

You can say that's just a joke, and I don't have my thong in a wad about it or anything. But I can't tell you how many times I've been mistaken for a groupie and been kicked out of the "band only" area -- when I'm in the freakin' band!

There's a key difference between the "Boys are Stupid" t-shirts and these t-shirts.

The "Boys are Stupid" t-shirts insult and degrade other people, not the wearer. These A&F t-shirts only insult the persons wearing them. Or not, depending on their perspective.

Which is why I ask how does the fact that someone else decides to buy/wear this t-shirt affect YOU?

Have you ever visited Tshirthell.com? There are some very appropriate selections for this little contest there. I have purchased 2 in the past year, for my sister, and her then girlfriend- hers: "Homosexuals are Gay!"; the girlfriends: "Asthma is Sexy!". I was really torn between that one, and "Abortions Tickle"- she worked in a Clinic at the time, and we shared a similarly sick sense of humor. I admire anyone who has the audacity to where such things in public. I personally have some older, un-PC message T's that I like to sport at the local Hobby Lobby (it's my way of aggravating them for aggravating me for not being open on Sundays): "FUCK IRAQ"- a vintage T from the first Gulf War, and "this is what a FEMINIST looks like", which is hot pink, too tight, and I like to wear w/my size 4 low-rise levis and cowboy boots.

Scarbo, I DON'T think it affects me. That's why I'm not trying to ban the shirt. Get it?

Or are you saying that people should be censored from saying they don't like a shirt?? Your "free country" argument works both ways, which is the point I was trying to make.

Goddess Melissa, I have that shirt too! It's so funny to watch people's reactions when their stereotype of what a feminist looks like is challenged.