Awww, come on! :-)

Oops, that was supposed to include this link.

too funny, walt. i was extremely tempted to include that pic as the catfight exception to the rule...i love me some fighting kitties.

Who the fuck is this Jaffa guy and why should anyone care what he says?

Feminists have been lambasting "catfight" for years, but now it's suddenly newsworthy now that

1. One Eric Jaffa is patronizing the Feministing blog, evidently (saw a comment of his below)

2. He pulled the "catfight" reference from a Maureen Dowd article you didn't like

OK, fair enough, but of all the catfight cronies around, it's sort of defies rationality that it's somehow MORE troublesome when it comes out of a woman's mouth.

richleader--are you for real?

the term catfight didn't "suddenly" become newsworthy to us; we've written about it before.

i'm not going to even address your weird angry rant towards another blogger. do you really not understand how/why people exchange links? (hint: it's not just because they read the site)

Rich Leader-

If you disagree with what I wrote, you can address the content instead of implying I lack the authority to blog.

If you have seen a true catfight between two women or girls u knwo why it is called what it is.

women tend to have longer fingernails, and a prominent feature of these fights is using the fingernails to lacerate the opponents face and arms. there is also alot of hair pulling and yanking, often a hair yank sets up a few slashes, just like a cat.

If you have never seen two redneck chicks go at it, well u dont' know what is up.

Ah, redneck. One of the few racial slurs still concidered PC by much of America. Thanks for pointing that out JJS.

redneck is not a racial slur. I grew up in a rural area, rednecks have no problem being who they are, which is rednecks. Its a way of life.

Not so. Read "The Redneck Manifesto" by Jim Goad.

And I've been called a redneck or trailer trash (another favorite slur) enough to know that I do have a problem with it...

You arguing that people don't mind being called rednecks is like saying that blacks don't mind being called "niggers".

Re:"Ah, redneck. One of the few racial slurs still concidered PC by much of America. Thanks for pointing that out JJS."

A racial slur, in my view applies to a racial or ethnic group. No one is saying the "rednecks" are a race, or that all whites are rednecks. The term applies only to a small group of whites and is used both affectionately (ie. by Jeff Foxworthy) or in a derogatory way (ie. calling someone "a dumb racist redneck"). However, it isn't racist, IMO.

So SunnyBeasty, but that logic someone could say "not all blacks are niggers; only those ebonics talking gang bangers" and that wouldn't be racist?

Not that my opinion means a whole lot, but here's my two cents.

Catfight is a ridiculous term. For instance I've heard political contests between female candidates as "a vicious catfight," but they're doing NOTHING different than men have done and do in every election in the U.S. since independence. I agree with Jessica. Why are aggressive women considered catfighty? And with men it's considered acceptable, normal, or even positive?

As far as the redneck debate goes... I side with ahlana. Originally Redneck was created as a slanderous title for poor rural white farmers because of their sunburned necks from working in fields. (Accurate I know. Gotta' love racial slurs, "yellow skins" is real mature too...) The word has gone through an incredibly complex transformation in the decades it has been around. Now it's largely related to a geographical region, the south, and namely whites. However, you can be a black redneck, a Chinese redneck etc. You can be a "redneck" and live in Oregon too. It's a very unique term that has both positive and negative connotations.

For many it’s an empowered term. Especially in country music "redneck" has become a term of endearment and pride. I greatly enjoy the song "Redneck girl" and the chorus goes "Gimme a gimme a gimme a redneck girl." However, just because it can be empowered does NOT mean its not a racial slur or a derogatory slam. Examples: Nigger, Dyke, Gay are all words that were used to oppress and ostracize but now people take pride in.

For many people who have the experience of being looked down upon and slandered with the term "Redneck" it doesn’t matter if you find it empowering or not. It's offensive. If I told someone "you're a dumb nigger" even if they take pride in their racial identity that’s terribly inappropriate.

Open your minds, don’t think just because you’re comfortable and Jeff Foxworthy and Comedy Central are comfortable with something that its not worth being careful with and considering.

Of course, I’m just a dumb redneck.

ahala i dont' have to read a book on rednecks.

It is sad but you people I am afraid are up on the hill theorizing with your books about things rather than much firsthand knowledge.

by the way trailer trash is an insult because you are calling someone trash. redneck is not that way. I don't care what your book says. Just become someone wrote a book - does not suddenly make it become the gospel truth on a stone tablet.

but regardless my point was I have seen firsthand reason to call two girls or women fighting catfights. That may just be an observation on my part and not the reason for the term. however, I don't see why it is derogatory . who really cares what you call two people stupid enough to be fighting??? It is just one of those things people say, i don't see what difference it makes.

To Ahlana and Ohashi,

I never knew the term was so offensive to so many people. I use it only because no one ever objected, even those I labelled rednecks would usually laugh it off. OTOH, if it is offensive, I will no longer use the term. Didn't mean to offend anybody.

JJS -
Allow me to come down off my hill to shove a sock in your mouth.
I was born to a lower class family; my dad works in a factory and my mom works in an autoparts store as a sales clerk. I grew up in a very isolated and rural part of western Michigan. (More cows than people kind of place) My life ain't exactly ivory tower. One set of my grandparents is from Tennessee and the other from Arkansas.

Oh, and Jim Goad isn't exactly an East Coast Liberal either... he was a poor white southerner who got sick of people thinking it was ok to call him a redneck, so he wrote a book. And it's about his personal experience (which just happens to be fairly close to my personal experience, which is why I brought it up in the first place.) It's funny and written by and angry white man, so you might actually enjoy it. But I understand if you think books are scary...

The problem with "catfight" that you don't seem to see is that it helps to minimize women to a status of cute, harmless, and sexual. Why worry about pissing off a woman if the only thing she can do to harm you is hiss and bear some claws or pull hair? And it isn't just used when women physically fight... watch stuff on the senate race in NY or the "conflict" between Diane Sawyers and Barbara Walters. The phrase takes professional, educated, ass-kicking women and diminishes them to pussies who can't play at the same level with the big boys.

And just because YOU don't see something as derogetory, doesn't mean that it isn't highly offensive. Part of life is being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes, and if you've got a whole bunch of women telling you that "catfight" is offensive, then I would highly recommend you get with the times and not use it. Language is a very powerful thing and if you can't see that, then you are really missing the point.

"Catfight" is what happens when two untrained women fight. The fact that men who are not trained to fight look ridiculous when they do is generally overlooked.
"Catfight" is definitely a sexist term.
I'd argue that women should be pleased that men use funny (to them, anyway) terms to describe what they see when women are violent... perhaps because they expect that women either SHOULD not be or generally AREN'T. I think that's a compliment. Violence is pretty stupid.
On the other hand, as a martial artist, I can tell you that untrained women and men are equally amusing to watch when they spar. Women are just as capable as men of dishing out an ass-whooping when they are trained. If they hold back at all, it's only because they always feel pressure to leave room for men's egos. One of my instructors is a woman. As a martial artist, she is simply terrifying.

there is a difference between "working class" people and what I would call a redneck. If u use the term redneck when refering to "working class" people yes it is an insult. but, the fact is there are rednecks. they are not defined by color, but rather by values and behavior.

So yea its an insult when u toss a word at someone when it does not apply and the "word" is beneath their station in life. but, that does not make the word wrong or a bad lable. the fact is people do lable eachother because lables are often found to be useful abstractions.

I worked with rednecks for 5 years on a construction site in my late teens and early 20's. some, were just working class people, but most were die hard rednecks. Who knows redneck may be the wrong term, maybe their is a more precise term that could be used.

JJS:
Since when do you get to decide when a person SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be offended? Who died and made you Christ, whitebread?