I don't know, it sounds like she feels liked she's been beating her head against the wall, especially when she says "and I'm wondering why John Roberts is going to be Chief Justice of the Supreme Court despite saying that women are just "giggling distractions" for the men who are trying to study and I'm wondering why we still don't have state-subsidized daycare, or a male contraceptive for that matter, and why we still have rampant domestic violence. Seems like there's still a lot of work to be done. Are we all too tired to do it?" I think today, with the Roberts vote going the way it did, there are more than a few feminists feeling overwhelmed with doubt about their ability to impact the process.

If it's the goal of feminism to help women achieve equal footing in all areas of society, and that isn't happening - if, indeed, there is significant backpedaling - feminism in its current incarnation isn't working, or at least not well enough.

Of course we have a lot of work to do and the "feminist movement" is not perfect. I don't think there is a cohesive movement anymore, but there is activism and people trying to work for the rights of women. I just don't think we can silence those voices.

What are some suggestions? How do we create a cohesive movement, while honoring the diversity of our constituancy and making all of our issues equal priority? And the age-old question, how do we break into the dominant cultural/political schema and begin to see our goals realized on a global/governmental scale? And is this even what we want to do?

It is just not a blame game is all I am saying, it is about real shit that is happening and finding out what we can do to stop it, educate people about it, and never ever shut up about it.

I do see your point Samhita, I guess I was just reading her statement as "discouraged and depressed" today, not abandoning the goals of feminism forever. Or maybe, if we haven't gotten people mobilized about this, maybe it's time to try some new tactics (side note: I think there are a lot of fem-bloggers who are reconsidering the wisdom of relying on so-called progressive democrats to stand up for choice; witness the whole Daily Kos kerfuffle). Ultimately we need to be dedicated to our goal, not our tactics.

And there is the whole "the older I get, the harder it is sometimes" thing. It's like, fuck, you mean I have to have this same stupid discussion for the jillionth time with some random idiot who doesn't understand that women are still not on a level playing field? It's enough to make one want to hide under the couch. Especially when the people you thought would vote for your rights roll over on Supreme Court nominations.

Have no fear, though, after a day or two under the couch, most of us are still pissed enough to come back out. :)

Well, u know as a movement ages it tends to lose some of its zeal. As more and more objectives are reached, activists search harder to find goals to work towards. The realistic goals were achieved a long time ago.

Now, people fret over things that are such a part of culture and perhaps even genetics, that it becomes increasingly difficult to rally enthusiasm.

For example, it is hard to rally people behind getting men to stop oogling women. Guys will forever be getting hard ons, getting juiced up, at the site of a woman they are attracted too. We are animals after all. Please, lets not forget that. Or, it is hard to get people to worry too much over pay disparity, when it seems that when you control for hours worked, time on job, overtime, danger, etc, degree, etc, that the wage gap is little if anything in the usa. When women themselves are choosing their own lifestyles, finding that the old model of killing yourself to get to the top does not fit them, and these individual choices are coloring the entire statistical picture… well, many say “good for them” rather than feel anger that they did not duke it out in the work-a-day world, perhaps as representatives of all womankind.

Today, men are falling behind in school, as normal male characteristics are being branded disorders. more men find the female dominated school environment not to their liking, and are dropping out. So, when people talk about the problems women are having in education, well, they can see it is pretty shitty for the guys too.

Or, when you are argue about a lack of pro women’s sports... well, people think "yea I saw a bit of a wnba game... and without the dunking and enormous leaps, it was just not the same… kind of boring actually".

All these issues are very pertinent to American feminists, but it seems the general public by and large hardly gives a shit about any of these issues, because they also see the other side.

One Idea is to focus activism more on overseas, and in areas where women are oppressed in ways that are truly in-your-face. For example the places where women cant vote, can be beaten legally, must cover in public, etc etc. these women are people too, just like all of us. unfortunately these practices are often cloaked under the guise of religion, making them very formidable barriers to women's freedom and equality. So, I think there is huge work to be done for women, maybe promoting these most tangible of issues can help to revitalize things.

For example, it is hard to rally people behind getting men to stop oogling women. Guys will forever be getting hard ons, getting juiced up, at the site of a woman they are attracted too. We are animals after all.
oh, please! I don't have anything against guys checking women out, hell, I do the same thing to both genders - it's in HOW you do it. Are you saying that it's THAT HARD not to make lewd gestures or slurs when looking at a hot chick? It's such a weak excuse - "oooh, we can't help it!" If you believe you're such an animal, you should be able to operate heavy machinery, is all I'm sayin'. If ya can't control the words that are coming out of your mouth, logically, it would be harder to drive a car.

overtime, danger, etc, degree, etc, that the wage gap is little if anything in the usa.

Honey, my mother is a senior programmer in her company by action, but not by title. If they gave her the title, they'd have to pay her more, which the owner does not want to do. The dud they call "Senior programmer" asks my mother for help and advice at least once a day, because he has less knowledge and experience, though takes home a fatter paycheck.

I work as a fashion/graphic designer at a small company - you'd think at that level, the actual productivity and creativity would matter more, as we can't afford to be biased. Not so! Not only do I have to put up with getting paid less, I have to deal with my designs getting passed over in favor of the work of the other designer who is a guy. Nevermind the fact that it is my designs that sell more.

That is anecdotal evidence, of course. For statistics, look around - the feministing girls have talked themselves hoarse supplying that data.

Today, men are falling behind in school, as normal male characteristics are being branded disorders.
Actually, I have always wondered how boys manage to do so much better in schools of US than girls. In my experience in the school system of USSR, it's always been harder for boys, because they do tend to concentrate with more difficulty than girls, and believe you me when I say that math and physics and chemistry was taught on an immensely harder level in USSR than in USA. Ironically enough, the explanation for why boys aren't normally as good students as girls was explained away by biological differences between genders. Kind of funny, that.

Or, when you are argue about a lack of pro women’s sports... well, people think "yea I saw a bit of a wnba game... and without the dunking and enormous leaps, it was just not the same… kind of boring actually".
Yes, because this culture needs BIGGER! THAN! LIFE! CRAP! happening all the time, lest their attention span lapses. It's the same reason most Americans find soccer boring to watch.

All these issues are very pertinent to American feminists, but it seems the general public by and large hardly gives a shit about any of these issues, because they also see the other side.
Or, it might have something to do with an interesting trait I noticed in this culture - Americans, in general, have very hard time giving a shit about anything unless it directly involves them. Most MRAs, for example, only become all up in arms about men's rights after they personally get into difficulties because of the "percieved bias toward women."

One Idea is to focus activism more on overseas,
Translation - "I wish you would all go someplace far away and left us alone in our status quo." ^_^

and in areas where women are oppressed in ways that are truly in-your-face. For example the places where women cant vote, can be beaten legally, must cover in public,
Uh-huh, uh-huh... Like, Mississippi, for example, where, trust me, women can get beaten for dressing "inapropriately" and their right to control their reproductive system is all but had been taken away. Just off the top of my head.

I learned a lot reading George Lakoff about how we can regain momentum as a movement, which in my opinion needs to include the left in general, we can't function as separate entities, the right is too large and too well backed financially. The right has funded think tanks, and uses linguistic framing as a device to engage the minds of individuals, for example. We could be doing some of this too.

I think what we are seeing right now is a powerful backlash against the progress made in the late 20th century, which says to me that feminism has had a powerful effect on society in the last 40 years.

elfly thank you for your reply. the thing is though, I am not really trying to push any point of view. my real point is that alot of the issues feminists talk of today are kind of mirky. you listen, and you are like "yea, that matters, its unjust lets make it right" then u here someone else explain why the statistical data shows what it is, and u are like "oh, ok, i guess it is logical and not unfair" then the other side counters... etc etc. you are left not knowing who to believe, because both sides on many issues are making points. it is not as clear cut as either side likes to believe. Sometimes I don't even know what the truth is, which is shocking even to me.

So, my point was by focusing on the real "clear cut" things that 94% of people can agree on, the movement can get more power. When u are always making front page news about things that are not that signifigant to most people or seem hard to figure out, U never get anywhere.

JJ, I think that men obviously ogling women on the street is an issue that is pretty clear cut in most feminist minds. It is blatantly disrespectful. I know men who are not like this. I do not have to wait till their eyes and thoughts return to what I am saying when a hot chick walks by. They somehow manage to at least appear to keep their thoughts on me. When I am ignored in the middle of speaking because a prettier (or just pretty?) girl walks by, it makes me feel pretty bad.

This is cultural, it is learned, and it is destructive.