I think it's perfectly appropriate to arrest, imprison, and beat women who don't compy with Iran's modest dresscode requirements. After all, the Jezabel temptress who incites mens lust by baring their arms or legs seek to spread their impure ways and must be stopped.

The next thing you know, they will be seeking sufferage and Allah knows, we can't allow the Great Satan to corrupt us like that.

For some good news, check this out.
http://weddings.theknot.com/pwp/view/co_main.aspx?coupleid=3239869067191250

I think this conservative backlash in Iran shows that we are starting to have an effect in the middle east.

Sorry wrong cut and paste. Thats my buddy's wedding page. This is the good news I was talking about.

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006444.php

I think this conservative backlash in Iran shows that we are starting to have an effect in the middle east.

Indeed! Hopefully soon the teenage girls will start demanding their right to birth control. ;)

I'm in complete agreement(suprise)! Birth control is the only way that women can truly empower themselves. By controling their bodies they are in control of their lives. The sooner women in the middle east are liberated the better.

tfreridge -

"By controling their bodies they are in control of their lives."

*blinks and sits down in surprise*

I can't believe I am going to say this hon, but, ahem, I can't agree with you more tfreridge :)

But, being a quite solid pluralistic cultural relativist, I am also having trouble with how I feel about different cultural things such as this. I don't feel it's my place to say such things are wrong, but I solidly feel that it is such. I think I tend to run with the idea that if women CHOOSE to wear a full body covering in 110+ F temps then it's their choice (however insane I might find that, but it shouldn't be imposed from above. I know that's not a perfect solution, but it's something I am still working through myself.

(I also have questions about a culture that has such an issue with women's bodies that they must be covered up entirely, but that's another story - and no, I am definitely not saying the West is perfect by any stretch of the imagination either).

I've never been against birth control, or even EC.
As a matter of fact I am very, very , for it.

At a certain point in development I believe a fetus develops/is given/recieves a soul and at that point becomes a human. I'm not sure when that point in development is so all my theory and belief is kind of shaded by a big "I don't know". I don't really want to discuss my theology, but in my mind, men and women physical bodies weren't created in G-ds image, it was our souls created in that image. And created EQUAL.

In the 1800-1900's women had a legitimate grip against western civilization and christianity. There are still some small things that could be made better, but I feel that my/our generations big battle as far as womans equality goes is going to be against the muslim and asian cultures. This is the area where real inequality exists in the modern world. True oppression and enslavement needs to be fought by anyone who witnesses it or is aware of it.

Hmm, I'll leave the whole "when is a fetus a person" thing alone, as I've often said that I don't think that it's a good conversation for feminists to get into.

However, I'm gonna address two points regarding the current and future strategies that are needed within feminism and feminist activism.

First off, I think we are a long way away from equality here in the states. What we have is a certain degree of civil equality (although, it's often not applied in anything but the most obvious exercises in sexism), but we a LEAGUES away from cultural equality. By this I mean the cultural constructions of masculinity and femininity and what such mean for individuals.

Sure, we need to keep working on laws, but we also need to work on ideas. These are the kinds of things like the reasons for domestic violence rates, rape rates, 'pink collar' herding, etc etc. This is why we need to start revisiting our strategies and stop talking about men and women but more a system of gender and inequality.

Now, as to non-western feminist strategies. Honestly, I think if we view things as it being us 'against' muslim and asian cultures we are not only setting ourselves up for a phenomenal failure, but also be no better than our colonialistic and imperialistic ancestors.

Feminist goals in non-western cultures are only going to be acheived if we assist women and men in those cultures to define feminism on their terms, in their understandings. Help them when they ask for it sure, but NOT impose our beliefs and culture on them. Moreover, instead of us 'teaching' them how to do things, I think they have a HELL of a lot to teach us about how we can do feminism ourselves in the West, particularly when we are talking about dealing with issues of difference.

White feminists were rightly 'told off' for how they (we) were quite colonialistic and paternalistic in our own rights when we thought we knew what was best. We need to not do similarly as western feminists.

Right on sister friend Sarah! I hear you.
As for you tfreridge, I pose questions to issues that I think are complicated. I think our understanding of Muslim and Asian cultures, is FLAWED and wrought with ignorance. Furthermore, I just think it is too simplistic to say "this is why they are wrong and WE (America) is great!" Far from the truth, South Asian feminists, you know like my mom, think that as Westerners we are trippin to think that women are so liberated in the West. That if anything we are just as (mentally) colonized as women in the "other" nations.
Moreover, I as a women CANNOT walk down the street and feel safe, especially at night, EVER. Is this the Western liberation you speak of?
Dude, you need to stop with your racist homogenizing of how "other" cultures need to be changed by us! But again I am just a (South) Asian, so perhaps, I am just too ignorant in my views on women to be able to articulate myself from the elevated and enlightened positions you Westerners do!

Oh and another thing, I believe it is was the United States that imposed global gag rules and held up the UN conference, while feminist's from other countries thought it was wack.

If you are willing to trade your freedom, liberty, and your right to vote for the safety of being able to walk down the street then you are deserve the big brother you are trying to get.

Yes, Muslim women get assaulted less in public. Are you willing to trade your drivers license for that? What about your right to have a bank account?

I am about as far from racist as you can get, by the way. There are reasons why so many people flock to America from southeast asia. Why do you suppose that is?

I was just noting a similarity/difference. Did I ever say I SUPPORT the government of Iran? No, I am just trying to get us outside of this us verse them mentality so many American's are obsessed with. I am critiquing two ways of thought, neither of them friendly to the needs of women.

Don't tell me your not racist. There is no such thing. As far as immigration patterns, they are diverse and unique depending on the particular country. South Asia and Southeast Asia are two different places by the way. There is no one story/reason people move here from either place.

And I do agree with you that I am not willing to give up rights I have here for life in many Arab nations. But that is because I LIVE here and I don't intimately understand the norms of these countries. If I was born there, I don't know what I would think, and I don't want to put words in the mouths of women that do live in these countries.

My point is if we could begin to understand different cultures as they exist within themselves, instead of comparing them to a US norm, then we may be able to move forward (as a nation) in our relationships with "others."

Furthermore, your attitude is a very typical attitude. Like "you should be blessed to be a women in this country, it could be SO much worse for you." I mean why can't we wish for/demand more as women?

very awesome points Samhita! And well put!

I am no expert on Islam, but I have been taking an Islamic law class this semester. I have learned there is a lot that we, as Americans and westerners, do not know or understand about Islam. Most Americans have never wanted to know much about Islami until after September 11th and then it was only to learn what religion would support such an atrocity. I think there were only a few Americans who sought to learn how Islam was being corrupted by extremists.

Nor am I saying that oppressing women is part is Islam. It is not! But, like most things, once man gets his hand into things, women are not exactly treated as equals and religion is used as a tool to gain power by the few at the expense of the many.

Such is the case in Iran. When the Islamic revolution occurred, many Muslims thought they were going have a very different country than Iran is today. Moreover, the women defying the laws of Iran were likley small children (if they were even born) when the Iran people overthrew the Shah and implimented Khomeini's form of an Islamic government. They have not given up their "freedom, liberty, and right to vote for protection". They continue to vote, but they are limited to voting for only certain leaders, including the current, rather progressive President Khatami. (You can find and read the Iranian constitution online to better understand his limited power do to the control by the religious scholars.)

We have to realize that our view of their world is through the eyes of an outsider. The fact that these Iranian women have continued to step outside of the law shows that they are, in their own way, challenging the status quo. We should not expect them to be making the exact same inroads that we in the west have been making. We should support them as women, not condemn them for not living up to our western ideals. I am not saying that we, as non-Muslims, cannot have a valid opinion about Islam and women, or Iran and women, but know their culture and history. Don't look at it through our prejudices and ideas.

We must recognize the difference between Islam and the Iranian regime. (Is there a difference between Christianity and the religious right in Amierca?) And we must support, not blaim the women.